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Author Topic: Ethical Limits?  (Read 5138 times)

Offline Terasec

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #30 on: Jan 10, 2014, 12:18 PM »
i would disagree with you on that one legal is not always ethical!

also agree legal is not always ethical
law cannot cover every circumstance.

as long as you eat your catch and dont waste it i dont have a problem with the ethics,

Offline Will Vaughan

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #31 on: Jan 10, 2014, 01:41 PM »
also agree legal is not always ethical
law cannot cover every circumstance.

as long as you eat your catch and dont waste it i dont have a problem with the ethics,



This guy gets it. Nothing worse then seeing people waste fish.

Offline fishnmachine

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #32 on: Jan 10, 2014, 03:03 PM »
it is legal to take shoots at a deer that is 400 yards away but not ethical for most hunters to do so!
Apples and oranges.  You're talking about fish. Smelly rotten (fresh) fish... not taking an ill advised shot at game, but fish.  And, most generally perch, the most wide spread fish in the northeast.  Whether the state says the limit is 1, 5, or 500, if anybody keeps that many legally caught fish, they are as ethical as you.  The state pays biologists to regulate fish populations, and they should know what they are limiting.  That's why we pay them.  I think it's unethical to question anybody's legal "catch".
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Offline camo ninja

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #33 on: Jan 10, 2014, 03:17 PM »
With selling fish I don't think the "times are tough" reason plays affect. It's a pretty expensive hobby regardless of how you look at it. Bait prices go up each year, augers aren't cheap, gas to get to and from your spot and I'm sure I'm leaving other parts out. Fish markets also have been going down each year. I know Tom's is paying only .50 cents a pound for 7-8 inch fish and 1.10 per pound for 8 inch plus.  You'd have to really hit them good to catch enough fish to make a profit and stay within VT legal limits. If you're fishing with the intention to make a buck you really shouldn't be fishing in the first place because there is always the possibility of going home empty handed. If you're really struggling you wouldn't take that risk and if you're really struggling why would you sell food at 1.10 per pound max when no other meat is that cheap?

I agree that fishing commercially isn't profitable. That's why I don't have a problem with guys doing it....there are very few who do it...but in talking to them, they say they need the money. In Lake Champlain, there is no limit on yellow perch. Still very tough to make any money.

In my mind it doesn't make much sense them other to brag or blow up someone's ego , very few make money but if they can post pics up all over the Internet with loads of fish they look like pros or Heros in their own mind.
If peopl needed the money that bad their would be easier ways to get it , I'd like to see everyone to get enough to eat on the lake but some abuse it.
As long as they don't get wasted and someone eats them I guess it really doesn't matter and none of my business but if it effects others that sucks

Offline fishingidjit

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #34 on: Jan 10, 2014, 03:38 PM »
an ethical catch is what you need to keep to make a meal if its within the legal limit for that water,I believe all commercial fishing in Vt,including LC, should be outlawed,period

Agreed !! go find a job if you need money. I take enough for a meal and no more.

Offline PerchSlayer67

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #35 on: Jan 10, 2014, 03:43 PM »
an ethical catch is what you need to keep to make a meal if its within the legal limit for that water,I believe all commercial fishing in Vt,including LC, should be outlawed,period

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Offline perchhauler

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #36 on: Jan 10, 2014, 03:52 PM »
I believe all buck pools, fishing tournaments, and catch and release fishing  should be outlawed, they are unethical to me.

Offline Smelty88

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #37 on: Jan 10, 2014, 04:18 PM »
The state pays biologists to regulate fish populations, and they should know what they are limiting.  That's why we pay them.  I think it's unethical to question anybody's legal "catch".

oh you mean like how the biologists set the trout season right, the one that as explained to us is determined by tradition not biology?
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Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #38 on: Jan 10, 2014, 05:12 PM »
I appreciate very much EVERYONE'S opinion on this matter, it makes me feel a lot better that i would say right now the majority feel the same way i do.  But lets take a lighter side to this and keep it a friendly matter and subject and lets not take it to a pissing match please.  I enjoy very much reading the forum and contributing to the forum,  Please keep posting to this subject, like i said i enjoy reading everything on the forum and lets keep it friendly.  I enjoy EVERYONE'S comments.

Thank you

Tim
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline tench

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #39 on: Jan 10, 2014, 05:31 PM »
With selling fish I don't think the "times are tough" reason plays affect. It's a pretty expensive hobby regardless of how you look at it. Bait prices go up each year, augers aren't cheap, gas to get to and from your spot and I'm sure I'm leaving other parts out. Fish markets also have been going down each year. I know Tom's is paying only .50 cents a pound for 7-8 inch fish and 1.10 per pound for 8 inch plus.  You'd have to really hit them good to catch enough fish to make a profit and stay within VT legal limits. If you're fishing with the intention to make a buck you really shouldn't be fishing in the first place because there is always the possibility of going home empty handed. If you're really struggling you wouldn't take that risk and if you're really struggling why would you sell food at 1.10 per pound max when no other meat is that cheap?

I agree that fishing commercially isn't profitable. That's why I don't have a problem with guys doing it....there are very few who do it...but in talking to them, they say they need the money. In Lake Champlain, there is no limit on yellow perch. Still very tough to make any money.

When my parents lived up by the pump house in Alburgh Springs I'd walk the 100yds to the ice, then fish all day and catch what I could and sell them. I couldn't find a job for the month long winter break from UVM and that money is what let me buy my books for the spring semester. Profitable? Not really, but I did make $250 in just under a month. ;)
If you're paying for gas to travel to the ice, gas for an auger, 4x4 or snow machine, travel to the market to sell them, etc. The profitability does decrease pretty quick.
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Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #40 on: Jan 10, 2014, 05:38 PM »
i hear yah brother bartlett
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline Lord_of_the_Perch

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #41 on: Jan 11, 2014, 07:51 AM »
I sell just about fish I catch. It pays for the best fishing gear and bourbon I can buy!

Offline lemdawg

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #42 on: Jan 11, 2014, 07:57 AM »
Amen LOP!

Offline Will Vaughan

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #43 on: Jan 11, 2014, 09:56 AM »
As far as the rest of the lakes in the state such as table 2 category I think a 8" size limit would make the world of difference.
I see guys with buckets full of 4-6" perch and then b***h you cannot catch anything bigger.
Gee I wonder why?
I go after perch 2 or 3 times a year for one reason meat.
The rest of the season I walleye and pike fish.
But if we could get people to let them grow a little bigger before harvesting them the population could grow in size and volume.
When it come to walleye and pike for me harvesting I probably catch 50-100 pike during a season and harvest 3
Usually the ones I enter in Derbys, that's all I need.
Walleyes I don't harvest more 5 or 6 per year and they are the smaller legal sized ones
The larger ones go right back down the hole.
I'm the same way with smallies in the summer.
Well that's my 2 cents.

I like this idea a lot. Along with adding slot limits to Pike and Walleye on all lakes. Same idea with hunting too. People want to shoot 10 deer a year including spikes, buttons, and does then complain because they can't see any deer. But don't go to far with the hunting subject or this thread will get locked! It's nice to see what other people think about our limits.

Offline ice fiend

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #44 on: Jan 11, 2014, 10:05 AM »
champlain can support a commercial fishery because of its size. id say a good 90% of the lake doesn't really get fished all year. some guys just look for a crowd and hit the same spot every year, then wonder why they catch any fish.  the guys making good catches and selling them have put in there time and know the lake, not just the popular spots. fishing with just hook and line, there will always be plenty of fish left for tomorrow. if you guys that cant find fish spent half as much time on the lake as you do on here you would have all the fish you want.  enuff said I guess, I got two 7 gallon pails to go fill...
agreed although ive neve filled 2 buckets most ive ever got was 30lbs. of seeds and gills
i told myself id be back by 2 i guess i didnt factor in that the fish were biting

Offline EmTee

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #45 on: Jan 11, 2014, 07:10 PM »
Biggest problems are people leaving small fish on the ice, and no different is the guys that rip the hooks out without care and then throw the fish back.  I don't have a problem with folks selling their catch-isn't it better to keep the money within our state? 

Offline ice fiend

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #46 on: Jan 12, 2014, 12:42 AM »
this is one very opinonated topic....
i told myself id be back by 2 i guess i didnt factor in that the fish were biting

Offline Smelty88

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #47 on: Jan 12, 2014, 07:31 AM »
yes ice fiend that was the goal of the topic to see what every one had for an opinion! If people noticed there were people on here that dont normally smeak up on the forum and should, it got many people participating and contributing to iceshanty and that is great to see! One thing I feel is important to take away from the topic is that what is ethical is not always the same for everyone and IS different from outdooorsman to outdoorsman. there is a quote that i came across while looking at what is ethical and though it is for hunting i think it can be used well here. "The point is, there are many things in the hunting and habitat management world that are legal, yet can be considered by some to be unethical. Again, it is left for each individual to set his or her own ethical standards. Hopefully, all of our collective decisions will shine positively on hunting, management and its traditions."
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Offline nateicefisherman1984

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #48 on: Jan 12, 2014, 07:32 AM »
If you want bigger perch you should keep more smaller fish. By creating a larger minimum size like 8 inches you would slow down growth rates and bottleneck the population. By removing more small fish you lesson competition and a provide more food and space for the other fish to grow more. Fish are a product of there environment. More space and more food = bigger fish. You keep removing only bigger perch then on small bodies of water it can seriously effect the amount of big perch. On larger bodies of water like lake champlain angler harvest has almost no effect on the perch population. There are millions of perch in lake champlain. Smaller bodies of water are more susceptible to over harvest and angler pressure.

Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #49 on: Jan 12, 2014, 08:32 AM »
If you want bigger perch you should keep more smaller fish. By creating a larger minimum size like 8 inches you would slow down growth rates and bottleneck the population. By removing more small fish you lesson competition and a provide more food and space for the other fish to grow more. Fish are a product of there environment. More space and more food = bigger fish. You keep removing only bigger perch then on small bodies of water it can seriously effect the amount of big perch. On larger bodies of water like lake champlain angler harvest has almost no effect on the perch population. There are millions of perch in lake champlain. Smaller bodies of water are more susceptible to over harvest and angler pressure.

This is were i will disagree. Its my belief that yellow perch are a product of there enviroment, if they breed and hatch in malletts bay, they dont move from that area, they live there life there. So if you commercial fish malletts bay, what happens, the perch get wiped out of that area and it takes several years to bring back descent perch in malletts bay. Same with other popular area's on the lake. So in turn, it makes it a lot harder for us to find quality fish and quantities and then in turn have to litteraly hunt for them. Other fish in malletts bay that feed off of perch will be affected also.
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #50 on: Jan 12, 2014, 08:34 AM »
Biggest problems are people leaving small fish on the ice, and no different is the guys that rip the hooks out without care and then throw the fish back.  I don't have a problem with folks selling their catch-isn't it better to keep the money within our state?

I stopped at kelly bay just the other day, friday, was on my way back from NY, it there was a pile of perch sitting in the snow bank at the access area to the left of the porta pottys. Nice huh
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #51 on: Jan 12, 2014, 08:37 AM »
For those who find it unethical, what about commercial fishing for the invasive white perch? When those things are feeding its not uncommon to fill many buckets (5-6). That being said, is it unethical based on species being sold/harvested?

If they are considered a invasive species, then so be it take what you want.  I do believe that in the future you will see something happen with the white perch though, it has become a very popular panfish in the northern part of the state, i dont know about the southern part.  and they seem to be a pretty good eating fish also.  I see guys in the spring durring the walleye river runs, loading buckets on the lamoille river fishing from the banks.
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline Smelty88

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #52 on: Jan 12, 2014, 09:49 AM »
guys not a thread for invasive species, but definitely would make a sweet new thread!
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Offline BassInVt

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #53 on: Jan 12, 2014, 09:56 AM »
my bad, i removed it smelty
What?? fish are biting, I'm gone

Offline nateicefisherman1984

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #54 on: Jan 12, 2014, 10:00 AM »
This is were i will disagree. Its my belief that yellow perch are a product of there enviroment, if they breed and hatch in malletts bay, they dont move from that area, they live there life there. So if you commercial fish malletts bay, what happens, the perch get wiped out of that area and it takes several years to bring back descent perch in malletts bay. Same with other popular area's on the lake. So in turn, it makes it a lot harder for us to find quality fish and quantities and then in turn have to litteraly hunt for them. Other fish in malletts bay that feed off of perch will be affected also.

If the population gets wiped out how do think the perch repopulate the bay ? You don't think other fish move in to replace the fish that have been caught ? Fish move around a lot more then people realize. There is no doubt some of those fish will stay there for there entire live, others will move around.

Perch will never be fished out of Champlain.

Offline ice fiend

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #55 on: Jan 12, 2014, 10:41 AM »
i commercial fish every once in a while if i get a lead on ahot spot but havnt done any recently i see no harm in it sunfish and perch are such prolific breeders sorry to offend anybody but this debate has been going on for a while online and offline.
i told myself id be back by 2 i guess i didnt factor in that the fish were biting

Offline camo ninja

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #56 on: Jan 12, 2014, 01:23 PM »
If you want bigger perch you should keep more smaller fish. By creating a larger minimum size like 8 inches you would slow down growth rates and bottleneck the population. By removing more small fish you lesson competition and a provide more food and space for the other fish to grow more. Fish are a product of there environment. More space and more food = bigger fish. You keep removing only bigger perch then on small bodies of water it can seriously effect the amount of big perch. On larger bodies of water like lake champlain angler harvest has almost no effect on the perch population. There are millions of perch in lake champlain. Smaller bodies of water are more susceptible to over harvest and angler pressure.

How will they get big if you keep the smaller ones ?
that makes no sense

Offline mempfree

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #57 on: Jan 12, 2014, 04:20 PM »
I remember, years ago, in Lake Memphremagog, when the Canadian fishermen or women, use to come down and fish all day, and fill there buckets, full of yellow perch, then head back, over the border, with them.  Ethical Limits, not.  A few years ago, in Lake Memphremagog, the local fishermen and women, are now catching white perch now.  I would eat yellow perch any day, but the white perch, in my opinion, don't have the sweet taste, that I love to eat.  How did those white perch, get in Lake Memphremagog?  Its just like, how did the Northern Pike, get in southbay, of Lake Memphremagog.  Maybe, they came down, from the ole, Canadian side?  Who knows, but they are there to stay now. ;D   

Offline TroutWhisperer

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #58 on: Feb 28, 2014, 10:46 AM »
How will they get big if you keep the smaller ones ?
that makes no sense

Because you're not going to catch all the smaller fish in Champlain.  The biological concept is that thinning out the population allows them to get more feed.  More feed=faster growth rates=bigger fish.

This is why slot limits are put in place.  Harvest some of the smaller fish to thin out the population and let the big breeders keep doing their thing.
 
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Offline fishingidjit

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Re: Ethical Limits?
« Reply #59 on: Feb 28, 2014, 11:38 AM »
Some of you guys should go to school and become biologists for the Vt. F&G Dept. You seem to know more about fish populations  than the true experts !  ???

 



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