Pro am ice tourney

[Finders Keepers]

Full tourney results and pictures will be posted tomorrow on the tournament website and through the rest of this week!

[blackmer826]

Didn't even fish the event but want to say thanks again to Tim and crew. Two huge events back to back like this must really put a great amount of stress on them all. This series is great and hope to see more people involved next year.

[Finders Keepers]

Congratulations to all the winners at this past weekend's event at Sodus! It was a rollercoaster of emotions for sure, but as with anything in its early stages, we will improve the weaknesses to make our events stronger. Thank you to all those who attended to make this our most successful event yet and we look forward to seeing you all at next year's event!

Also thank you for all the support, and in believing in our series of events!!

[ugglystick101]

I disagree with you Gambell, because this is not a low stakes normal tournament. I mean the cash payouts may be low because of the lack of anglers, but if you look at the prize packages in the open division, you are talking packages worth 300-700dollars or so. People could easily cheat if they could transport fish by other means than just the lake itself. People could easily get a fish from other waterways and weigh it in to win these great prizes.

No its a dumb rule I could park mid bay and bring a fish In and still cheat

[bushyjr]

Was a great time we caught fish both days didn't place but still fun.
The rule about fish being brought to weight station was in team pro am rules but not open. Bad spot the tournament directors to have to decide. the rule is necessary to the lunker to keep fair for all entries. I would figure that rule and few others will be changed for wording. Like getting 10 bonus point for FISHING all 3 events as rules say. But allowing one team just to pay fee's to enter but never fished or attended mandatory meeting as rules stated .
Hats of to Tim he did a great job and all his crew with few errors we are human and things happen.
Congrats to gaff lunkage on the triple crown and Brother dad's 2nd

[Finders Keepers]

No its a dumb rule I could park mid bay and bring a fish In and still cheat

And other anglers would see you do it and bring it to our attention (like we've seen and heard in other tournies). But in the event that an angler got away with it, it would only happen once, for they would then have to fish the Pro-Am team division in all of our future events. It really doesn't matter what rules are set in place, if someone really wants to take a chance at cheating any tournament's rule set, they will find a way. We are just trying to keep the integrity of our tourney by deterring those individuals and enforcing the rule set we have in place. Granted we had a couple weaknesses in this year's rule set, those will be adjusted and improved for next year's events.

[Pequod1]

Interesting tourney, learned a lot and had a good time. Good meeting you NYsporty, Chief and I might be making a spring road trip your way. As a matter of fact, it was good meeting all of you out there. Nice to put faces to the names I see hear on Shanty.
Sorry Tim, I still don't get the 5:00 am start. I would think that a 6:00 would get the same result with a 6:30 open start.

[Team Halpin]

I met Tim and his teammate for the first time at the Bayside Ice fishing Derby. They were competing and also promoting the Pro-Am. I fish Bass tournaments with a friend of his and he tells me he is a stand up guy. It takes a lot off effort to do what he does and rules have to be in place so everyone is on the same page. Some of the tournaments I fish check livewells, have spotters and even lie detector test in an attempt to stop the cheaters, however no matter what you do you can never stop it if that is what someone wants to do. I have read the rules and regulations for the Pro-Am and I think for an ice fishing tournament they are pretty good. If anyone has a problem get involved I think Tim will welcome it and you just might realize how complicated it is to get these events going. Congrats to Tim and his crew for bringing forth something that gives a lot of joy to the many that participate. Jim 

[Finders Keepers]

Sorry Tim, I still don't get the 5:00 am start. I would think that a 6:00 would get the same result with a 6:30 open start.

With walleye waters, many anglers want to be able to get in place before sun-up as walleye often bite best right at dawn. On Sat this weekend, our first pike was weighed in just after 7am, which likely wouldn't have happened with a later start as our anglers would have still been setting gear. There must be a minimum time delay of an hour between start times to allow for any delay of the shotgun start (i.e. if we had say 40 teams that needed to get out of Maiden Lane this past weekend, we may have needed some extra time and would have delayed the shotgun starts accordingly). If that happens and we only leave 30 minutes before the Open Division release, we could run into issues with Open anglers. An hour separation avoids any initial conflicts between the two divisions. Plus a later start would shorten an already shortened day on Sunday. Sunday's cut-off at Noon was in direct response to angler feedback from last year's events and favored by most (including us, as it takes us a minimum of 4 hours to pack-up after an event).

[bushyjr]

The start time is good we were able to have our lines all set up before sun up and end time on Sunday is good so we are able to be home with family Sunday evening.

[GAMBELL]

Where does all the cash go from entry fees?  I see very little cash being paid out.  Lots of nice prizes but we all have icefishing equipment......

[scott14580]

Yup, we finished 5th in the pro and got NO money, couple wooden tip ups, a bag and some jerkey. **censored**? $4000 of entries in the pro and only the top 3 getting a total of a few hundred? Something fishy eh? Oh yeah, and you got a 1099 for the product you won. All that product is donated. Where's the $!!!! Not happy. I've never seen payouts like this before and I fish tourneys year round.

[bushyjr]

What cash did top 3 pro teams get and top 5 in open class any one know. It cost lots of cash to run a large tournament of this size with advertising, banners, insurance, all the paperwork. Not to mention fuel and housing for the help.

[GAMBELL]

What cash did top 3 pro teams get and top 5 in open class any one know. It cost lots of cash to run a large tournament of this size with advertising, banners, insurance, all the paperwork. Not to mention fuel and housing for the help.

Open was 100 for first and 75 for second. 

[ShaneO19]

The webpage http://www.nysiceproam.com/SBPrizeProjection2014a.html shows first place for each open division category ranging from $430 to $530 and $2000 for first in Pro-Am.  I didn't stay for the awards because I lost my door prize raffle ticket (which made me a little more then upset) so I didn't see the prize payouts live.  I thought it was a bit strange for the panfish category to be worth more then any other but seemed like great payouts to me. Was it really only $100 for first place in each division?

[GAMBELL]

The webpage http://www.nysiceproam.com/SBPrizeProjection2014a.html shows first place for each open division category ranging from $430 to $530 and $2000 for first in Pro-Am.  I didn't stay for the awards because I lost my door prize raffle ticket (which made me a little more then upset) so I didn't see the prize payouts live.  I thought it was a bit strange for the panfish category to be worth more then any other but seemed like great payouts to me. Was it really only $100 for first place in each division?

That is the value of the prize package not cash payout.  You can sell the product but you will not get that much cash for it AND you have to pay taxes on the value of the product. 

[hinkydo]

The webpage http://www.nysiceproam.com/SBPrizeProjection2014a.html shows first place for each open division category ranging from $430 to $530 and $2000 for first in Pro-Am.  I didn't stay for the awards because I lost my door prize raffle ticket (which made me a little more then upset) so I didn't see the prize payouts live.  I thought it was a bit strange for the panfish category to be worth more then any other but seemed like great payouts to me. Was it really only $100 for first place in each division?

Would also like to see who won and the fish totals???

                                                  hinkydo

[Finders Keepers]

Yup, we finished 5th in the pro and got NO money, couple wooden tip ups, a bag and some jerkey. **censored**? $4000 of entries in the pro and only the top 3 getting a total of a few hundred? Something fishy eh? Oh yeah, and you got a 1099 for the product you won. All that product is donated. Where's the $!!!! Not happy. I've never seen payouts like this before and I fish tourneys year round.

We got the same ridicule last year when we took a $40,000 loss to run two of these events, but let's put that off to the side for now since that loss was not figured in to this year's events. Without going into all the details, these events on average cost us $5,000 each this year to put on (since our investment last year gave us the equipment necessary). That cost has to be covered before any monies start going into the packages. To do that, we need approximately 150 anglers in the tournament (varies slightly depending on the divisions they enter). Also consider that we have to pay $5 insurance for every angler at each event, so an Open entry really only brings in $25, and a Pro-Am team only $150. Once we get above 150 anglers the money can start going into the prize packages and the values grow exponentially. So we had 172 anglers this past weekend, 22 times $25 (if all the anglers were Opens) is $550, 11 times $150 (if they were all Pro-Am teams) is $1650. Obviosly the actual value is between those two numbers and we have a complex program that is based on the number of both Open anglers and Pro-Am teams that calculates (based on percentages) how much of the tournament costs are consumed within the Open prize structure and how much is consumed within the Pro-Am Team prize structure and let's us know exactly what we can pay out ($1125 for this tournament). We could have broken the checks down smaller and paid all five places, but due to angler feedback from last year the majority would like to see fewer places paid with larger checks.

All the product is sponsored, yes, but considered income to me and tracked by the IRS (every item). I am not willing to cover the $29,800 in product for this event in my taxes, so we pass off the larger prize packages, door prizes, etc. to those who take them.    Anything less than $250 in value does not need a 1099. And those who had prizes in the $250-$599 range who were issued a 1099 will not receive a W9 from us next year as your total winnings from our series did not add up to the $600 minimum as set by the IRS and those anglers will not need to claim it next year. We have to get the 1099's for our tracking of the prizes.

Again, I would like to emphasize, running an event of this magnitude is extremly difficult, time consuming, and involved. We're not out to rip anyone off, or anything of that nature. If we were running these out of a trailer, had 50+ volunteers, and only one or two sponsors, the cash payout might be a bit higher, but you sure wouldn't see the piles of gear we gave out either. We fished a tourney this year that had over 300 anglers entered - 1st place paid $380, 2nd was $260, and third was $150 (and there were only 2 categories!). If we had 300 anglers we would have paid $340 to ALL 4 1st places, $200 to ALL 4 2nd places, and $140 to ALL 4 3rd places (assuming we kept it to only 1st through 3rd), PLUS $650 to the 1st place Pro-Am team, $400 to the 2nd place team, and $275 to the 3rd place team (again if we kept it to 3 checks). Looking better?? It boils down to number of anglers. More anglers = larger payouts.

If you want more detail, I'd be more than happy to sit down with anyone and go over the break-down over a cup of Joe. 

[blackmer826]

Amen.   

[scott14580]

I understand you want to recoup that money, but with any business it takes time. What would my painting employees say if I didn't pay them till all my equipment is paid for?  You need to spread it out. Now everyone in these tourneys are taking a hit till u recoup all your $? That's not how to grow. Looking at this tournament alone, you took in about $9100. Paid out $1200 after your ins. And expenses. Roughly $1200 for the ins. That leaves about $6700. Nobody will deny you eventually recouping your money, but this isn't right. The money and time guys just like my partner and I put in to get ready for this event was almost a waste. And what about the teams that went to every event? Triple crown winner got $100 I think?
Also, we got shorted our stowaways and rod/reel combos.

[GAMBELL]

It is plain and simple.  If guys win very little money, it will not survive.  Product is nice but $ talks. 

[blackmer826]

I agree that money would be nice. Me and my partner took 2nd place in the Pro am at Tupper and didn't receive a dollar, but we still will fish these events in hope that numbers will grow where money will be in the prize packs.

You gotta think about the other tournaments you guys fish....there are not 200 anglers....there are 500+ therefore people can walkaway with $400 for 1st and down from there. If the anglers will come fish these events, then payouts would happen like people want. You wouldn't see any regular derby payout 1st, 2nd, 3rd, for 8 hours of the day with only 200 anglers in the event.

[GAMBELL]

I agree that money would be nice. Me and my partner took 2nd place in the Pro am at Tupper and didn't receive a dollar, but we still will fish these events in hope that numbers will grow where money will be in the prize packs.

You gotta think about the other tournaments you guys fish....there are not 200 anglers....there are 500+ therefore people can walkaway with $400 for 1st and down from there. If the anglers will come fish these events, then payouts would happen like people want. You wouldn't see any regular derby payout 1st, 2nd, 3rd, for 8 hours of the day with only 200 anglers in the event.

What tournaments have 500 people in them?  I fished two local bar tournaments that had less people (160), smaller entry fees ($10.00) and payed out $400 for 1st, $240 for 2nd and $160 for third in 2 Divisions (pike and perch). 

[scott14580]

Don't get me wrong and my partner would agree, we had a great time getting ready for the tournament, fishing the tournament and hanging out with some fellow shanty members afterwards. Also, other than a couple hic ups it was ran smoothly and we couldnt wait for next year again. It just put a huge damper on the whole thing when you finished in the "money" and didn't take home a dime. You should at least get your $160 back. Heck, I still haven't told the wife I received no cash for finishing in the "money"! I'm scared as hell! Lol

[Finders Keepers]

What tournaments have 500 people in them?  I fished two local bar tournaments that had less people (160), smaller entry fees ($10.00) and payed out $400 for 1st, $240 for 2nd and $160 for third in 2 Divisions (pike and perch).

Yes, a tournament with little to no expenses. I fished it too.   Do you think we fished it for the small door prizes they handed out or even the cash prizes? Nope. It's the fun of the event meeting other anglers, the competition, seeing others win, the atmosphere, etc. We also have fished events where the top prize was a tip-up!! Who cares about the prizes, it's about the love of ice fishing for me. But that's just me...

[Yankee Troller]

I also fish for the love of fishing. Whether it's hard water or soft water.

[scott14580]

Oh yes, "for the love of fishing" card. How did I know that was coming. All of us don't get paid to fish like you "professionals" do right? Isn't that the definition of "professional? That's ok, you can take that $6000+ in money from this weekend and wrap your whole house with the finders keepers "professional" fishing team logo.

[conesusguy]

Oh yes, "for the love of fishing" card. How did I know that was coming. All of us don't get paid to fish like you "professionals" do right? Isn't that the definition of "professional? That's ok, you can take that $6000+ in money from this weekend and wrap your whole house with the finders keepers "professional" fishing team logo.

Hahahahaha   I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't put up money to fish tournaments for the love of fishing.  It's to compete, be better that day than everyone else, AND win as much as I possibly can.  Every other day besides tournament day are done for the love of fishing.  I don't buy that.

Glad I went to Oneida!

[Yankee Troller]

I put up $1,000s to fish tourneys every Spring-Fall. I have no issues doing so. Tourney fishing is in my blood! However, until there are observers in ice events I wont participate. I know there were people who where out on Sodus this weekend not in the event helping teams out that were in it. Until there is something like an observer involved to help the integrity of the tourney I cant see putting up my money.

[Jnrmk33]

This was my first "Tournament" not knowing much about other tourney's I have to say that  Tim and the others did a great job. I was amazed at the prize giveaways between the door and winners packages. The friendliness of everyone. And not for the  least, the sportsmanship Especially team Brothers Dad.. I will definitely be back next year and years to come. Keep up the great job!