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Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Equipment => Topic started by: slipperybob on Oct 29, 2009, 11:59 AM

Title: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Oct 29, 2009, 11:59 AM
I got two free weights of 3# and 5#.  Tested some line against them by tying a knot a lift them up from the floor.  I ensured that there was no knot failure.  All lines were tested off of spinning reel and ice rods.

The following lines lifted up the 3# weight:

1# Fireline Crystal
2# Stren Microfuse
2# Gamma ESP Ice
3# Trilene Micro Ice
3# P-line Flouroice


The following lines lifted up the 5# weight:
2# Fireline Crystal
3# Fireline Crystal
4# Silverthread Super
4# Gamma Copoly
4# Yozuri Hybrid
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: [email protected] on Oct 29, 2009, 12:16 PM
Looks like I'm going to buy some #2 fireline.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: SPARKYICE on Oct 29, 2009, 12:25 PM
another way to test break strength-
wrap one end of the line several times around a dowel rod or pipe, and tie a swivel to the other.
suspend a coffee can from the swivel  an inch or two above a table or the floor , and slowly fill the can with sand till the line breaks. then just weigh the can.
this is a good way to test different knots in different lines for strength. some knots work better than others on different types of line.

oh- and i do like the fireline! a bit pricey, but it's great stuff.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: dkfry on Oct 29, 2009, 01:22 PM
Just be shure the line itself is breaking and not right above the knot. A fairly simple knot thats close to a 100% knot is the palomar.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: [email protected] on Oct 29, 2009, 01:48 PM
Palomar all the way! ;D
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Oct 29, 2009, 02:23 PM
One thing to that I wanted to consider was having the line in real world application and not just another break strength test or another knot strength test.  The weakness in the line that a person should consider is the line stress while being able to lift up weight.  A lot of my real world line breaks happens midline.  If it weren't for a line nick, the line will have to break where it is stressed most.  That part where the line is at it's biggest stress is right at the bend on the line roller.  The line could also break from the stress of line dig in at the spool too.  What I was not testing is line shock strength.  As we know that a pike or bass can burst pretty fast at times.  It was kind of neat to see if the drag setting on the reel could be set for best efficiency in terms of line management and drag smoothness.  Just because a mfg. reel says something like 7# drag, you may not find good drag smoothness at above 4#.  I couldn't believe how snug I had to dial my reels just to lift up 5#.

I will definitely put more trust in Fireline Crystal for lifting panfish out of the ice hole...   

I will have to self test for line break strength in the future.

The palomar is a reliable knot and line breaks for me have always been right above at the knot.  Not the strongest knot for me.  Everyone has different knot tying ability, so what works for one is different for another.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Nov 03, 2009, 09:26 AM
I was just curios as since Stren Microfuse looks quite similar to Berkely Trilene Fireline Crystal.  Comparitively 2# test was what I have available.  The Stren Microfuse 2# test had no problem lifting up the 3# weight.  When I tried with the 5# weight, Stren Microfuse could not pull it.  I repeated the test several times with different knots, but the line kept breaking just right at the knot.  In conclusion, Stren Microfuse is not as strong as Fireline Crystal.  I also noticed that for Stren, the thermal fuse isn't as strong and when the braid became unweaved, there were four distinct strands.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: scavengerj on Nov 03, 2009, 09:45 AM
It must be kept in mind also that given the slippery nature of the super lines, they tend to pull into themselves to the point that the knot will implode, or the line can actually cut into itself.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: scavengerj on Nov 03, 2009, 10:19 AM
Different lines, but I am sure this pretty much applies to all to some extent...

1. Braid overtests. Nearly always it proves to be much stronger than the rating stated on the spool — sometimes (per the example above) two or three times what it claims to be.

2. Braid loses strength at the knot. How much has long been debated, but the industry has often cited 25-percent loss of strength at the knot as a fairly typical figure.

This seems to be the basis for line manufacturers understating their braids' break point. As many in the industry have explained to me, they want to provide a cushion that compensates for weaker knot strength.


The test that were performed were using much higher line test then we typically fish with.....


Toward that end, I spent three days testing lines and knots on the Instron 5543 line tester at the IGFA's headquarters in Dania Beach, Florida. My goals were twofold. First, I wanted to find out by just how much various brands of gelspun poly line would overtest. Are any actually rated accurately? How much do actual break strengths vary within a line class? Secondly, I wanted to better understand how a few common and readily tied knots held up with this notoriously slippery line. Which are strongest and most consistent? Which, if any, provide strength better than that 75-percent figure?

Going for Broke
I set out to determine the actual breaking strength of 31 different lines in two popular line classes, 20- and 50-pound. One braid tested, Platypus, is not readily available in the States, but it has long been a well-regarded mainstay of the Australian market and was included out of curiosity.

Each line was tested at least five times. Though the Instron tester provides a graphic readout showing the percentage each line stretches before breaking, I have not included that information. The controlled stretch manufactured into monofilaments varies from about 15 to 30 percent. (So for example, a 100-foot piece of mono will stretch to 115 to 130 feet before breaking.) But with braids, stretch is minimal and varies little, being no more than a few percent.

The tensile-strength chart tells the story. And that story, especially for "20-pound" braided lines, is striking in just how widely brands vary. Sufix Performance Braid comes closest to breaking as stated, at 23.4 pounds — barely over the IGFA's allotted 22.2-pound break for the 20-pound line class (which is really the 10-kilogram class that converts to 22.2 pounds). At the other end of the strength spectrum is Berkley's 20-pound Fireline, which popped at 54.5 pounds on average.

      20-POUND BRAIDED-LINE TENSILE STRENGTHS
 
 Manufacturer                       Line Color             Actual Break (Lbs.)     % Rated Strength Variance
Berkley Fireline                      black & flo-green      54.5                               273%  H
Triple  FishBully Braid              Moss green             46.3                               232%  L
Cortland Master Braid             Emerald green          41.6                               208%  L
Cortland Spectron                 white                     41.3                                207%  L
SpiderWire Stealth                 green                     39.7                                199%  L
Stren Super Braid                  hi-vis gold               37.6                                188%  L
SpiderWire Spiderline              Moss green              35.7                                179%  L
Ande Braidfluoresc                 yellow                     34.6                                173%  L
Western Filament Tuf Line       black & white           34.5                                173%  L
Western Filament Tuf Line XP  green                      33.8                                169%  L
PowerPro Superline                Moss green              33.0                                165%  L
Platypus Bionic Braid              pink                        31.5                                158%  L
Izorline Spectra                    green                      30.5                                153%  L
Offshore Angler Magibraid       green                      30.0                                150%  M
Cabela's Ripcord Si Plus          green                      27.6                                138%  L
Sufix Performance Braid          lo-vis green             23.4                                 117%  L

      Standard deviation: 0-3 = L (low), 3+-6 = M (moderate), 6+ = H (high)


Among 50-pound lines, Cortland's Spectron made the top of the list, breaking at 83.7 pounds on average, while at the low end sits the one superbraid tested that actually broke within its line class: Stren, at 46.8 pounds.

It's also worth noting the variation of the breaking point among the five tests. I calculated the standard deviation, then categorized the results as high, moderate or low based on a "visual curve" on looking over the range of deviation. Of course less deviation is more desirable since it indicates line that breaks more consistently. For example, Ande's 20-pound braid had relatively high variance, breaking as low as 24.4 pounds and as high as 39.3 pounds. Most 20-pound lines broke with minimal variation and none more so than Cabela's Ripcord Si, which varied just 1.5 pounds over five tests.

Lines in the 50-pound group proved a bit more consistent overall. No line showed a high rate of variance, though Spiderwire Stealth was close, varying from 61.8 to 74.4 pounds in our tests. On the other hand, some brands broke within just 2 or 3 pounds over the five tests.

      50-POUND BRAIDED-LINE TENSILE STRENGTHS
 
 Manufacturer                      Line  Color        Actual Break (Lbs.)  % Rated Strength  Variance
 Cortland Spectron                   green                  83.7                             167%   M
 Sufix Performance Braid           Hi-vis Yellow         71.4                             143%  L
 Cabela's Ripcord Si Plus            green                  68.6                              137%  M
 Cabela's Ripcord Si                  fluorescent yellow  67.7                             135%   M
 SpiderWire StealthTracer         yellow                  65.9                             132%  M
 PowerPro1 SuperlineMoss         green & white       64.8                              130%  M
 Platypus Super-Braid               green                  64.3                              129%  L
Western Filament Tuf Line         black & white       63.7                               127%  M
Berkley Gorilla Tough                Camo                  62.4                               125%  L
Offshore Angler Magibraid         green                  61.1                                122%  L
 Ande Braid                            green                  58.4                               117%  L
 Western Filament Tuf Line XP   green                  58.2                               116%  L
 Izorline Spectra  Naturally       White                  55.8                                112%  L
SpiderWire Spiderline               Moss Green          55.0                                110%  L

      Standard deviation: 0-3 = L (low), 3+-6 = M (moderate), 6+ = H (high)

Onto knots.....

One advantage that braided line offers is its exceedingly thin diameter. Being several times thinner than monofilament of the same strength means more line on a spool (or, taken from the other end, being able to use much smaller, lighter tackle for a given line class than with mono), potentially longer casts with lighter lures and a much faster sink rate with less line belly for those dropping deep.

It seems to me rather a shame to give up de facto the oft-cited 25 percent of your line's strength to the knot you tie, at least if that sacrifice can be avoided.

The good news is that you can avoid doing that. But you can also easily cost yourself even more than 25 percent of your line's strength; I found that some knots, popular and pretty effective with monofilament, may reduce your braid's strength by more than 50 percent!

Over a period of weeks, I'd pretied several hundred knots to test. There are most assuredly more types I did not test than those I did. Logistics and time limited my testing to a few types of knots. I based my choices on several factors, including general popularity, ease of tying (avoiding some of the most difficult), recognition of some as particularly "good" superbraid knots and frankly some I was just curious about.

In addition, I wanted to determine how variations in tying a specific knot might strengthen or weaken it, so you'll notice the same fundamental knot repeated in the test but tied somewhat differently.

Keep in mind that this wasn't intended to be a test of each line's knot strength, but of different knots and how they compared. Therefore, I tied/tested all knots using the same lines: 20-pound Fireline and 50-pound Powerpro. (Regarding the relative knot strength of superbraids, see "Real-World Knot-Strength Line Test: To Come.") I then tested each knot five times (or more in a couple of cases to assure results for particular lines with minimal skewing from deviation).

The knot-test charts for both 20- and 50-pound lines are sorted by break, and it's easy to tell at a glance how the knots ranked. Note that in addition to the average break point of each knot, I've listed that number as a percentage of both the spool strength (20 and 50 pounds) and the actual break strength (54.5 pounds for 20-pound Fireline and 64.8 pounds for 50-pound PowerPro).

Ostensibly, manufacturers underrate their braids to compensate for weaker knot strength. In fact very few 20-pound knots of any kind failed at less than the Fireline's spool strength. But while a knot that breaks at 20 pounds may be "100 percent" of what the line says it is, in fact you're settling for half the actual strength. Your goal should be to tie kots that come as close as possible to 100 percent of the line's true breaking strength.

      KNOT TEST -- 20-POUND BRAIDED LINE (Fireline)
 
 % of Actual Strength (54.5 lb.)        Knot             How Tied                                    Mean Break (lb.)  %of Spool Strength  Var. 
Double Line
        81%                             BIMINI TWIST       single line, 20 turns, 2 locks (15 tests)     43.9                     220%  H
        80%                             BIMINI TWIST single line, 12 turns, 2 locks (10 tests)            43.7                     219%  H
        53%                             SPIDER HITCH single line, doubled at knot 5 times through      29.0                     145%  L
        50%                            90% SPECTRA KNOT single line, 6 times through                     27.5                      138%  M
        42%                            BIMINI TWIST single line, doubled at knot 40 turns                  22.8                      114% H 
        42%                            SPIDER HITCH single line, 6 times through                              22.5                      113%  L
        37%                           90% SPECTRA KNOT single line, 12 times through, 2 locks          20.0                      100%  L
        37%                           BIMINI TWIST single line, 60 turns                                         19.9                       100%  L
        33%                           BIMINI TWIST single line, 40 turns                                         17.8                         89%  M

      Line to Leader
       78%                           YUCATAN double line, 12 wraps                                              42.7                        214%  M
       65%                           YUCATAN double line, 7 wraps                                                35.6                       178%  L
       65%                           SURGEON'S double line, 7 times through, 2 locks                         35.2                        176%  L
       49%                           SURGEON'S single line, doubled at knot, 4 times through, 2 locks   26.9                        135% M
 
       41%                           SURGEON'S single line, 10 times through                                   22.4                         112% L 
      40%                            SURGEON'S single line, doubled at knot, 7 times through              21.8                        109%  M
       40%                           UNI TO UNI single line, doubled at knot, braid 8 times through/mono 4 times through  21.7  109%  L
       37%                           UNI TO UNI single line, braid 8 times through /mono 4 times through                       20.2  101%  L
       32%                           REVERSE ALBRIGHT single line, 12 wraps                                                         17.5      88%  L

      Splice, Line to Line
      59%                            YUCATAN double line each side, 8 wraps                                    29.9                  150%  H
      40%                            UNI TO UNI single line, doubled at knot, 10 times through, 1 lock    21.7                  109%  L
       38%                           UNI TO UNI single line, 7 times through, 2 locks                           20.7                  104%  M
      25% BLOOD KNOT single line, 10 wraps each side                                                          13.7                   69%  L

      Line to Swivel/ Tackle
      100%                           PALOMAR  2 times through                                                      54.3                    272%  M
      70%                            UNI double line, braid 8 times through/mono 4 times through          38.4                   192%  H
      64%                            IMPROVED CLINCH double line, 10 times through                          34.7                   174% H
      63%                            IMPROVED CLINCH single line, doubled at knot, 10 times through     34.5                   173% H
      63%                            UNI single line, doubled at knot, 8 times through                          34.1                   171% H
      59%                            PALOMAR single line, three times through, 2 locks                        31.9                   160% H

     Standard deviation: 0-3 = L (low), 3+-6 = M (moderate), 6+ = H (high)

Conclusions...

Data shown in the charts leads me to several conclusions:

• If you don't need to tie your line directly to a mono leader, tie a simple twice-through palomar from a double line to tackle or (for a leader) to a swivel. When I tested this knot with 20-pound braid, the result was an average break of virtually 100 percent, the single strongest knot in this group.

• Other than that, the strongest knot was the venerable Bimini twist, either a 12- or 20-turn. (See "The Counterintuitive Bimini" for further information on this.) This creates a double line, which, versus a single main line, is by far the strongest way to connect directly to a mono or fluorocarbon leader. Other knots tested to tie directly to terminal gear just didn't cut it.

• The "90% Spectra Knot" (so named on various websites touting it) isn't — not even close. (But here's some pretty cool irony: One of these sites boasts of this knot, "When you are finished you should have ... a 70%-strength braided-line knot.")

• To tie a double line to a mono leader, the Yucatan (a.k.a. no-name or bristol) knot is the clear choice with 10 to 12 wraps offering a decided edge over fewer wraps (with somewhat stronger results in 50- versus 20-pound). A surgeon's knot tied with a double line can provide nearly as much strength, though the result is not as neat nor does it have a footprint as tiny as the Yucatan's. (Note: this knot can be tied by looping the the leader around the double line either going up away from the bottom of the double-line loop or starting up above the loop and wrapping down toward it. Per the illustration, I tie — and tested it — the latter.)

• To splice braid to braid: Just say no. I won't do it again except in the direst circumstances. When too little line remains on the spool for my taste, I'll simply spool up again. Even with a double-to-double-line splice, I couldn't get better than 59 percent with 20-pound and 63 percent with 50-pound. Unis and even more so blood knots tended to slip out before breaking.

You just can't do enough turns with superbraid: It's slippery stuff that likes to cut into itself. I'd long heard that a standard 20- or 25-turn Bimini won't do with braid and that another 20 turns at the very minimum would help hold the knot. Heck, I often tied 60 turns. Hey, the more wraps the merrier, right?

 D'oh!

Much to my astonishment, I found that taking more turns actually weakens the knot. And not just a little bit: The 40- and 60-turn knots broke repeatedly at roughly a third of the line's actual strength, rating these among the poorest I tied. The knots proved marginally stronger if I doubled the line, then tied these many-wrap Biminis, ending up with eight tag ends and a great-looking but not very strong knot. Compare the 27- to 38-percent strength of 40- to 60-turn Biminis with the 80-percent strength, or thereabouts, of 20-turn knots.

That very comparison led me to wonder about going the other direction. That is, if a 20-turn knot outperforms a 60-turn knot, what about say just 12 turns?

The result astounded me —  so much that I went back to IGFA to do some quick retesting in the limited time I had. Same outcome: The 12-turn Bimini twist time and again either held its own against the 20-turn or more often actually outperformed it! In 20-pound Fireline the results were nearly identical at 80 and 81 percent (pretty good for a superbraid). In 50-pound PowerPro, the 77-percent 20-turn Bimini paled next to an 88-percent 12-turn Bimini.

At that point, still fascinated but late in the game with time growing short, I decided I had to try mono. I had a spool of 30-pound Stren Hi-Impact mono (45.1-pound break, dry) with me and quickly knocked out five tests. (I can tie a basic 20-turn Bimini in short order; another benefit of the 12-turn — it's even quicker.) Not even close: the 20-turn came out just about 70 percent, but the 12-turn broke at 101 percent! The other line on hand was 14-pound Sufix Siege (21.5-pound break, dry), which tested at 90 percent with a 20-turn knot while tied with only 12 turns it tested at 96 percent. I also tested a few more 20-pound braids; the results showed the same basic pattern.

I'd like to see test performed with the lighter pound class using certified equipment before I would be able to make an informed decision as to best line/knot.



 




Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: scavengerj on Nov 03, 2009, 10:26 AM
Then if interested in another test involving knot strength and a particular line...

My hands are cut and raw. My wife avoids me. A mouse in the corner of my workshop has a nice new nest made of bits and ends of broken spectra. I’ve worn out and broken my scale and had to buy a new one. My nerves are as frayed as the broken line that litters my basement.

I’ve completed THREE full days of testing and breaking braided spectra line.

A note on the line strength testing in my previous post..

I had some issues with this article most of which was that the extensive knot testing was done with 20# Fireline and very little was done with braid. Results with Fireline CANNOT be extrapolated to braid. They are completely different critters.

The main objective of my project was to see if I could tweak 30# braid to the same knot breaking strength as my usual 50# PowerPro. I should explain my surf fishing is done on the Mexican Pacific where the added distance with a lower diameter line is very beneficial. Secondary goals were to evaluate the new Sufix Performance Braid, to investigate a “mystery break” theory, and to investigate the “low abrasion” reputation of braid.

First and foremost, I have succeeded in tweaking 30# braid to the same strength at which I was effectively fishing 50#. It’s all about knots. I tested hundreds and hundreds of knots of every type and description. Previously, I was using the Palomar knot with 50# PowerPro and I was happy with its strength and performance. I was quite surprised to find this knot tests at only 25-30# with 50# line. Time and time again I repeated this with careful attention to drawing down the knot correctly and stressing the knot modestly to simulate casting strains. Knowing now the breaking strength I was happily using, I searched for a way to make the effective strength of 30# line the same. I’ll spare you the hours and hours. Suffice it to say I almost used up a 150-yard spool. Here it is.

The best knot for braid is the five turn UniKnot with doubled line. It takes some skill and experience to tie this knot correctly. Inattention to details will make this knot inconsistent and weak. When done correctly, this knot twirls around itself when drawing up forming a uniform overlaying wrap. It must be drawn up high on the line and then gently slid down to the hook and tightened again. Attention must be given mid-way during tying this knot to the drape of the slack. If you have tried this knot before and discarded it may have been your technique. Maybe, if I can figure out how to video in extreme close-up, I will post a video. Using this knot with 30# braid, I can obtain 25-27# of breaking strength. This is the same strength as when I used 50# braid with a palomar knot!! The good news is you should only have to tie it ONCE !! I’ll explain a little later.

The five turn doubled UniKnot turns 50# braid into a juggernaut. I was able to achieve 35-40# of breaking strength. Why less total strength by percentage than 30#. Not sure but still a substantial gain over the palomar knot.

I was very excited to try the praised 30# Sufix Performance braid against vilified 30# Power. I was hoping for a miracle. I’m very sorry to say that Powerpro was the same as Sufix in my knot and strength testing. Exactly the same. Sufix has a little different weaving and maybe this lends to more durability but I have another thought about durability. I noticed when braid breaks it recoils upon itself within the braid. Braid is not zero stretch. It rebounds significantly. This creates uneven tension on the thousands of micro fibers and results in minute slack in individual fibers even yards up the line. When all the fibers cannot share the load equally there is loss of breaking strength.

Even though the braid looks fine when tensed up again the damage is there. This effect compounds with each break. After three or four breaks the line starts to break easily somewhere in its running length. Sometimes yards from the knot! This happens with both PowerPro and Sufix.

THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO IS BREAK YOUR SPECTRA BRAID LINE!! While I’m sure an occasional bad weaving comes from the factory, I believe most “mystery breaks” come from a line that was stressed through several previous break offs. A SACRIFICAL LEADER IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR YOU SPECTRA BRAID! This balance between a sacrificial leader and the strength of the braid can only be found through experimentation and can be done several ways. All mono does not break at its labeled strength. You can use a lighter test of mono. You can use heavier mono (good for abrasion) and tie a weak joining knot. Or you can tie a couple of overhand knots in the heavier mono.

Try as I might I can’t convince myself that the abrasion resistance of spectra braid is low. I have run it over all manner of sharp objects. Perhaps when folks are fishing nasty water they are getting snagged and several braid break offs soon reduce their braid to crap??

So, I now have 30# spectra braid joined to a Spro Power swivel with a doubled UniKnot. A 34-inch length of 30# Sufix mono is tied to it with a quick and weak knot I learned years ago called the Crawford knot. The braid breaks at 28#. The mono breaks at 24#. Perfect. I have cast 3-ounce lures thousands of times with the equivalent strength line and never cracked off (you would need a heavier shock leader system with a tournament type high energy cast). I cannot put more than 17 pounds of pull on my 12-foot Rainshadow 1387 without fear of breaking it.


Between the two of these they should give us enough to think about when it comes to line(s) and knots.

Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: prchslyr on Nov 03, 2009, 10:45 AM
That is some amazing info. Thank you for sharing that with us.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: danakaiggy on Nov 03, 2009, 01:41 PM
thank you for the intresting info
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Nov 03, 2009, 05:02 PM
That's very interesting data on braid.  Although braid would (should) never break at the spinning reel's line roller, monolines has a tendency to break there where the stress is at it's highest, given that the knot holds.

I have a sort of cheat method.  When tying a uni with braid, I slip some mono line inside of it.  Don't know how much it affects it, but it provides the friction and cushion for the braid from knot slip.

As strong as Fireline 20# is, it's also the only line that I've gotten fish bite off on multiple occassions...It may have been pure chance of getting scissorred, but I have not experienced this with a braided super line.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Nov 22, 2009, 03:12 AM
I got my Asso Lines in.  I decided to use my Berkley 35# Digital fish scale to do some rough line strength testing.

Asso Tetramax 3# broke at 4# 8 oz.
Asso Tetramax 4# broke at 7# 1 oz.
Asso Flourolight 4# broke at 7# 9 oz.

These three lines also glow highly visible under UV light.  I didn't bother to test the Ice Heavy, Ice Fishing, Micron 3, or Invisible Ultralight since these lines didn't have incredible break strength claims.

I also tested some other lines.

Gamma 4# broke at 7# 9 oz.
Silverthread Super 4# broke at 5# 2 oz.

Gamma ESP Ice 2# broke at 3# 1 oz.
Trilene Microice 3# broke at 4# 1 oz.
Pline Flouroice 3# broke at 3# 3 oz. (old line on reel)
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 11, 2010, 03:29 PM
If anyone cares for an update...I've kept an updated journal entry for all the line's I've used for ice fishing.  Second entry with some general line stats and line breaks.

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=120037.msg1183606#msg1183606 (http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=120037.msg1183606#msg1183606)

And also just a click away on the signature line. ;D
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 12, 2011, 01:46 AM
Once again I have to revive this thread, or it's always an ongoing thing for me.  Well the latest line tests are the Powerpro Ice Braid in 3 and 4 pound tests.  It's been a long time since I've bothered with any Powerpro from back in the days where the line bleed green gunk all over everything and the line coating shed like a molting reptilian skin of the sort.  A quick line pinch and rub of the sample in the store revealed no line color staining on my finger or nails.  In addition the line felt softer and more supple than any other Powerpro I've ever touched.  About equal to old worn out Powerpro but no fraying of the sort.

I think the ice blue color is making a comeback as I remember a time when I thought blue color monofiliament was cool and then it all dissappeared.  Anyway the ice blue color of Powerpro is more prominent compared to Sufix Ice Braid's ice blue color.  Yet, the color varies from spool to spool like there's no quality control department.  Actually I like it that way better since I would on purpose choose two line test with two very different shades of blue color.  (I did that for Sufix Ice braid, but the Powerpro was on accident.)  So as it turns out my 3# test Powerpro Ice Braid came in a deep blue color and the 4# test came in a medium sky blue. Anyway past this mumbo jumbo and on to my initial line strength test fresh from the spools.

I started out with the 4# test since it was the stronger of the two and I figure even with a sloppy knot tying it would matter as much.  So my first line pull test was as normal as I've always done it.  A steady moderate pull and I watch the fish weight scale climb in displayed pounds and ounces.  It got to 5# 9 oz. when the line gave out without any indication of line failure.  Thought it was strange since I normally can tell if a line is nearing it's limit.  Gave it a second whirl at a slightly faster pace as I was slightly excited to get better results only it was a dismal 4# 2 oz. read out as the line failed again.  Okay now I'm going very slow pull.  Getting the digital fish weight scale to climb literally by the ounce. Now I've got a high line test of 6# 9 oz.  That's more like the Powerpro I understood should've shown.  I had to test the line strength out a few more rounds with and was finding a few more consitent line breaks of about 5# 10 oz.  Fast pulling it was showing consistent line breaks just above 4#.  I'm fairly content with my loose data collection and set it aside for the other line waiting in it's package.

The 3# test was now taken out of the package and I notice how deep blue the color is.  I didn't bother to check it in the store because the sample line on the box between both line match in color.  Well there's no mistaking which is which now.  In a good way too when I will get around to spooling it to go fishing.  Well with the testing after seeing results with the 4#, I will have to be a little more gentle with the 3#.  My first line pull test gave me a whopping 6# 13 oz line failure.  Okay that is just not right being even stronger than the 4#.  I thought maybe the gave me a 4# line and labeled the box 3#.  Maybe they're all 4# lines and just gets labled different since no one will be able to really tell with their naked eye or by feel.  For a moment, I thought that the 3# line was thicker than the 4# line.  Well the 3# line did feel slightly ever so slightly more stiff.  I continued with my line break testing.  Now I pulled slightly faster, something of my very normal line pull speed and the 3# test broke at 5# 14 oz.  That's odd but consistent being higher than the 4# test.  My moderately fast pull showed a line break of 3# 6 oz.  A few more tests to confirm my results showed were very close and consistent as well.  Normal pulling kept showing me number of 5# 13 oz.  Fast pull showed line breaks above 3#.  I'm content with my findings.

My basement loose lab line tested numbers are:

Powerpro Ice Braid 3# knot break 5# 13 oz. (slow pull 6# 13 oz.)
Powerpro Ice Braid 4# knot break 5# 10 oz. (slow pull 6# 9 oz.)

Compared to previous years Fireline Crytals of equivalent box listed line test:

Berkley Fireline Crystal .10 mm 3# line break 6# 4 oz.
Berkley Fireline Original .13 mm 4# knot break 6# 12 oz.

Gotta give Powerpro props as it's a great alternative to my standard Fireline Crystal I'm so used to using in recent years.  The Powerpro should be thinner and my personal findings are they're about equal in strength.  The Fireline Crytal is however a lot more consistent in strength going through various test pulling speed.  Regardless the Powerpro is softer and smoother in feel.  Now I don't have any spare spools or reels to load the Powerpro Ice Braid up.  I'm going to have to junk some lines but I'm trying to decide which ones.  I'm leaning towards losing the Sufix Ice Braid because I don't like how that braid hums through the line guides. 



Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: scavengerj on Jan 17, 2011, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the update and additional information slipperybob!

Ahh, the hum  :)

Sounds like you gotta go and buy a few more spools if not new reels  :)
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 24, 2011, 09:09 PM
I went to look at the store at a few more spools of PowerPro Ice.  Checking for line smoothness and/or stiffness.

The 5# was still smooth and soft.  Turns out that the 8# was beginning to show a little stiffness but still smooth.  The 10# was more stiff and had a slight waxy feel to it.  The 15# was horribly waxy and stiff.  That's the PowerPro I'm used to.  The waxy and stiff line.  

(https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi962.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae102%2FVillainHero%2FFishing%2FPowerProIce.jpg&hash=997b36fe82a335724d10a19af7d42088)
Gotta either like or dislike the different shades of blue color.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 30, 2011, 02:52 AM
(https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi962.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae102%2FVillainHero%2FFishing%2FFireline4Strands.jpg&hash=66cc358490a5603aa35e6828defc2b53)

If one ever wonders how Fireline will hold up, lets just say that I have fished it like this and will do so for a while more.  People often thinks that Fireline is just one line, but it's actually a twine of four strands thermally fused to become one.  At least the 6# Fireline Micro Ice Original shows that it's made of four strands.  My knots are a Trilene Clinch hybrid knot that I just call my garaged knot.  It does a very good job at small diameter lines or it has my confidence behind it.  Top one shows a severly worn out Fireline where the individual strands have fluffed out quite a bit.  Bottom one shows a moderately worn out Fireline, just enough so the thermally fused no longer bonds the independant strands.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 16, 2019, 02:27 PM
A few up to date, 8 strand carrier braid line collection

Berkley Fireline Ultra 8 carrier .12mm 4# knot break 8# 4 oz.  (around 2017)
Diawa J-Braid x8 .06 mm 6# knot break 8# 4 oz. (2019)
Diawa J-Braid x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 13# (around 2014)
Sufix 832 Ice Braid .10mm 4# knot break 9# 2 oz. (around 2014)
Sufix 832 Braid .20 mm 10/4 knot break 17# 5 oz. (palomar knot 15# 14 oz.)

Now I've always been a fan of Berkley Fireline and so when the Ultra 8 carrier line became available, I went and got the listed 4# test immediately.  As usual I gathered the information listed on the box.  Run it through my Berkley tech 35# fish weight scale.  Tie both ends of a short line to some SPRO power swivels and commence a hand pull test.  Again the advantage of a hand pull test, is that not only will you see the scale display change in force, but feel that change simultaneously whether it's an indication of a knot slip, knot pinch, or knot bind/burn to lead to a knot line failure.  As a Shimano reel fanboy, it seems contradictory to be using Diawa braid lines instead of Power Pro lines.  As a customer, I will use what I like to use.  Just not much of a Power Pro fan from the days of it's inception.

I don't need to find the ultimate line strength as that has little value to real life application.  The knot is the same knot that I will use for my end tackle.  I need to know if that knot will perform and consistently yield repeatable results.  As I learn with very light braid or superlines, I need to up my line wrap by one or more wraps.  Contradictory to results show up for very light monofilament nylon/copolymer or fluorocarbon types lines.  I need to keep the main line wraps of four. 

Quotes below are from my journal.

Quote
Saw that Berkley Fireline got an 8 strand braid now.  Fireline Ultra 8 Carrier is quite a long name.  Just as the packaging says 8 strands and thermally fused.  I ran several line test between my finger and thumb.  Getting a feel for how much more round the lines are and how much coating makes the line.  The 20# test was very obvious waxy feeling.

I bought the 4# test line mfg labeled the diameter to be .12 mm  It's still a thermally fused line and that's what makes it Fireline.  I put this line through my typical line/knot strength test.  The first test resulted in a 7# 12 oz. knot break.  The second test resulted in a 8# 9 oz. knot break on the same line.  Third test results were 8# 8 oz giving me an average of 8# 4 oz. roughly.  There wasn't any noticeable ribbon effect to the line at all.  I saw a few rings on the line that may be premature line weakness or just the result of the bond from the line coating breaking under pull.

Side to side comparison to normal Fireline Crystal 4# test.  Both have just about same feel and looks.  When compared to Sufix 832 Ice braid ghost, Fireline was noticeably smaller even though the mfg claimed diameter is .10 mm for the Sufix 832 braid.

Berkley Fireline Original .13 mm 4# knot break 6# 12 oz.
Berkley Fireline Ultra 8 .12 mm 4# knot break 8# 4 oz.
Sufix 832 Ice Braid .10mm 4# knot break 9# 2 oz.

With the knot break comparison, it seems the new Ultra 8 carrier braid has more knot strength compared to old Fireline Original.  Sufix 832 Ice braid in 4# may have a higher knot strength but it really is a larger line diameter.

Quote
Sufix 832 Ice Braid .10mm 4# knot break 9# 2 oz.

I had to try it, only because one can't get regular 832 in smaller test.  Comparing the retail 6# test between regular 832 and 832 ice Braid, the ice version felt softer.  Furthermore I couldn't see with my naked eye the Gore strand that normally contrast the other strands.  I could not identify it either after examining a package with a frayed end.  I will say, there is an impressive accomplishment to get it that small of a line and have 8 strands.

So I bought a 4# test spool.  50yrd for $10 is kind of high.

The line break test was phenomenal.  While I was pulling and watching the weight value.  I was expecting the line to snap under 5#, but it kept on climbing.  I did experience some knot slip.  Probably what caused the knot break.  I watched the pull pressure go from 5 to 6 pounds and continued.  It climbed 7 to 8 pounds, then knot slipped.  Pulled more to 9 pounds, then another knot slipped and breaks at 9# 2 ounces.  Okay it's very strong for a 4# list.

A scrapped piece of line was given a water bath.  To my surprise the line sinks.  The normall 832 was more/less neutral floater.  Sort of just depends on how much Micro air bubbles are trapped in the braid.

Quote
So I ordered some fresh braid.  Well it appears that Diawa has made some smaller test# available to the previous J-Braid that was only available at 10# test.  I ordered some 6# and 8#, but only the 6# was delivered so far.  Off I went to test it on my little fish scale like normal.  However with this small braid, I did use some Spro power swivel to tie onto.  From my experience with thin line like Berkley Nanofil, I expected to up my wraps instead of my normal knot tying.  My first premature line test ended up with a flat 8# knot break failure.  My second attempt was using my standard knot and it only yield a 6# 14 oz. knot break failure.  That was expected.  Back again to test by increasing the line wraps by only one more and a careful pull test, the result was 8# 4 oz. knot break failure.  I am satisfied with such results, knowing that the line itself is that much stronger that the knot break failures.  At current, this thin line is soft and very pliable.  It makes Berkley Nanofil appears thick.  The texture feel almost like that of polyester fly tying line.  I did not experience any color bleed in either dry or wet line.

Diawa J-Braid x8 .06 mm 6# knot break 8# 4 oz
Berkley NanoFil 4# .10mm knot break 7# 5 oz.
Berkley Fireline Crystal .06 mm 1# line break 3# 5 oz.
Berkley Fireline Original .13 mm 4# knot break 6# 12 oz
Berkley Fireline Ultra 8 carrier .12mm 4# knot break 8# 4 oz.
Sufix 832 Ice Braid .10mm 4# knot break 9# 2 oz
ASSO Micro Finish braid .08 mm 10# knot break 8# 4 oz. Mfg claim break of 13.2#

I've been a fan of Berkley Fireline for a long time.  When compared to Diawa J-Braid x8, I should convert it all over.  This sample of 6# Diawa J-Braid is same diameter to 1# Berkley Fireling Crystal.  That is not even a fair comparison in line tensile strength.  Line tensile strength it is equivalent to the new 4# test Berkley Fireline Ultra 8 carrier line.  However not that's a much much thicker line.  Sufix 832 Ice Braid doesn't even come close to making a comparison.  While ASSO Micro Finish braid at 10# shares about the same knot break strength, being a 4 carrier braid, it is very noisy on the Beaver Dam Noodle Ice rod with the wire line guide type.

I have been using 10# Diawa J-Braid x8 for some ice fishing which performs no different than other braid when it comes to freezing.  Yes the existent of air bubbles on braid lines showing up on the flasher was evidently there.  Fortunately this warm winter, there has been much temperature just shy of below freezing level and above freezing temperature so I had not experience any kind of icing issues on my rod tip.  The 10# J-Braid is manufacture listed at .15 mm which is about equal to 3# ice mono lines.  Compare to other superlines at same equivalent manufacture listed diameter, they're about 6# listed diameter type.  I do not remember having a loud noise issue while reeling up the line.  Perhaps it was because I was using this on the K&E Whip'r rod and that absorbed most of the noise vibration due to the line guide type.  I may have to just swap it out and test it on another rod to confirm this, knowing that softer 8 strand carrier type braids will be smoother compared to 4 strand carrier types of braids.

Diawa J-Braid x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 13#
Sufix Ice Braid .14 mm 6# knot break 7# 11 oz
Berkley Fireline Crystal .15 mm 6# knot break 8# 8 oz.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: MT204 on Jan 16, 2019, 04:26 PM
 slipperybob,
Got to say I really enjoy your endeavors, testing and general curiosity for fishing line and knots! Iv'e read all your journal from day one.
Maybe a bit on the different knots you use (prefer)  for each line (floro, mono, braid etc)? Don't want to start a war cause knots can be kind of personal. Just curious.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: esox_xtm on Jan 16, 2019, 06:12 PM
Yep, slippery's work and (especially) documentation is inspiring. I've got a couple of things in the back of my head pounding to get out. Just gotta set the stage and define parameters. Preview: It's all about leader material...
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: TickleStick on Jan 16, 2019, 07:56 PM
The wax or coating is a good thing IMO, it keeps the braid from absorbing so much water and freezing.

I personally prefer a stiffer braid in lower diameters.

Ones to consider would be, Pline tcb 8, Sunline xplasma, duel hardcore 8

The hardest part with the braids listed is finding the right diameter you are looking for with ice fishing equitment, sufix 6lb is .006"+ while the others that I listed are
in around 8-10lb but have the same diameter.

I like .004" but can live with .006"

I do want to try some of the new Daiwa J-braid x8 grand in 8lb .005"

Also if you want to test braid to leader connection, the FG knot is the one to go with unless you like to tie the PR knot.

Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 19, 2019, 06:59 AM
slipperybob,
Got to say I really enjoy your endeavors, testing and general curiosity for fishing line and knots! Iv'e read all your journal from day one.
Maybe a bit on the different knots you use (prefer)  for each line (floro, mono, braid etc)? Don't want to start a war cause knots can be kind of personal. Just curious.
Keep up the good work!

Thanks so much.  A lot of it is based on memory from childhood and end results through experience.  I still remember my endeavors from simple overhand knots still used from when I was about 8-9 yrs old.  Lots of hangman noose knots and moved onto the snell knot and clinched knots on hooks to uni knots.  Learned some knots on backs of fishing hooks and lure packages, like Rapala and Trilene knots through my teen years.

One thing about knots is, although it's only purely personal, I find that line diameter and material makes more difference than the actual knot.  For example in simplicity, palomar knot works great in larger diameter lines, but lousy when it gets to most 8# test and lower.  Was a favorite of mine for many years, based on face value of opinions from others.  As a bank fisherman, we all know about snags and when nothing is left but pull line till breakage is all that can be done.  I had a piece of 2" diameter stick from my backyard saved just for line wrapping and yanking from snags.  Unfortunately every time I did that, line broke around my wrapping around the stick usually when it was braid/super type lines when I used my personal knot and usually knot failure when I used palomar knot.  Partially I think it's because of the oak bark on the stick that leads to line pinch and breakage from cutting into the wood/bark.

When I sat down and tested knots, again only my favorite lines and limitation to the Berkley 35# digital fish scale around 2009 purchased.  I already knew the endeavor would never apply to lines beyond my use.  Furthermore it was Berkley Fireline that I really wanted to use.  By that time, I've already accepted that Berkley Trilene XL, XT, Sensation, Coldweather, and Microice, were already on my no longer use list.  In a nutshell, the knots I take time to tie at home always perform way better than the knots I tie while out there fishing.  Again it's the field knots that really matters to me.  So at home, I did went through my own tribulation of duplicating my field knots.  It was a sort of loose collection of palomar vs trilene knots over years of test to fail, usually on old fishing line on some dumbbells.  Something like 10# should not break on a 10# dumbbell.  The results were palomar breaks usually at line pinched by knot while trilene usually breaks somewhere else on line.  I have also tried variation of the palomar knots and trilene knots looking for consistency and ease of duplication.  The only thing consistent about the palomar knots I've tied are, it's all over the place in inconsistencies.  Even when I purposely cinch line to create an intentional weak spot, it's still sometimes holds but line breaks midway up somewhere.  Maybe it's just luck of draw or actual line fault.  Trilene, obviously to me when line is burned by cinching it breaks at weak spot.

Although I rarely use the palomar knot now, I know I can tie it in moonlight.  Tie it when my hands are trembling frozen cold from either ice fishing or late fall or spring fishing in cold rainy weather.

Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 19, 2019, 07:51 AM
The wax or coating is a good thing IMO, it keeps the braid from absorbing so much water and freezing.

I personally prefer a stiffer braid in lower diameters.

Ones to consider would be, Pline tcb 8, Sunline xplasma, duel hardcore 8

The hardest part with the braids listed is finding the right diameter you are looking for with ice fishing equitment, sufix 6lb is .006"+ while the others that I listed are
in around 8-10lb but have the same diameter.

I like .004" but can live with .006"

I do want to try some of the new Daiwa J-braid x8 grand in 8lb .005"

Also if you want to test braid to leader connection, the FG knot is the one to go with unless you like to tie the PR knot.
I'm still waiting for delivery of the new Diawa J-braid x8 grand as well.  I too prefer some stiffness to really light line.  It helps with preventing jigging knots or casting and wind knots, especially when it comes to slip bobber fishing.  Sort of why I still haven't changed out my Fireline braid in 15# from my Metanium MG7's.

I think with teflon coated braid, I learned from back when Spiderline Stealth had it, it resulted in not so favorable results.  Hence I have some reservations about using it.  All these new lines coming out faster than I can use nor can afford.  Sunline PE-HG small game was like $50-60.   

I've only learned about the FG knot recently.  Maybe been using it for last few years but my memory may be off.  I have been using it since like the first post on it on Tackle Tour forums.  Before that I have been using a nail knot to nail knot long before and still do that.  Due to me using such light lines, I hadn't had a need to try anything else for the longest time.  On top of that, I rarely had a need to even for ice fishing.  I have only recently attached 10# Diawa J-braid x8 to 9# Stroft GTM with the FG knot.  First time for such a light line connection.  Like all things, I started out with gathering real results from field testing on the bigger stuff before downsizing the application for the light stuff.  I admit to using it on 80# fluorocarbon leader material first, then 30#, then moved onto monofilament nylon lines top shot, kept working it down to about 14# test.  It took time to build up the confidence and most of all the time to become experienced enough to tie it properly. 
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Jan 22, 2019, 12:59 AM
Just checked the mail and Diawa braid lines delivered.

Quote
The remaining Diawa braid lines came in the mail.  So quick line strength pull test.  Well after removing the spools from the packages and to my findings I cannot tell the difference between the J-Braid x8 or the J-Braid Grand x8.  Now I was under the impression that the Grand would be more coarse in texture.  Well I can almost confirm that, being such thin threads.  It also seems like the Grand will ribbon out more or it appears to me that the spools I got seems to exhibit this more so in comparing to equivalent J-Braid x8.  When I pinch the lines and push together to check how tightly weaved the braided strands are, I found that it was much easier to get the strands to separate on the J-Braid Grand x8 vs standar J Braid x8.

The package talks about IZANAS fiber which use to be Dyneema trademark name.  So I found out that there are two grades SK60 and SK71.  SK71 is the stronger of the two.

Diawa J-Braid x8 .06 mm 6# knot break 8# 4 oz
Diawa J-Braid x8 .13 mm 8# knot break 11# 9 oz
Diawa J-Braid x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 13#

Diawa J-Braid Grand x8 .06mm 6# knot break 6# 4 oz
Diawa J-Braid Grand x8 .13 mm 8# knot break 10# 12 oz
Diawa J-Braid Grand x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 16# 14 oz

I am surprised at the strength of this line.  The 6# label wasn't as strong as I had expected.  The 8# was strong, but compared to J-Braid x8, it was weaker.   The 10# has a much higher break strength and I'm totally impressed.  Overall, multi strand carrier means that the failure of one strand is more likely.  I'd figure getting that small in diameter, one would also see more line breakage

In such a case like this where the new gel spun line are formulated to be stronger in molecular strength, they don't always have better knot strength.  There's lot that can affect the overall line strength when it comes down to multi strands.  When I examine the broken lines from my pull test, the spring back results from the broken lines shows consecutive strands breakage.  Always at that pinched point at the top of the knot is where the line breaks.  The 10# which has larger strands appears to produce the kind of result to support the newer gel spun line. 
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 09, 2021, 06:12 PM
It's been awhile since I've ventured into any new lines, especially that from a different brand.  This braid is made from the latest gel spun extrusion process and it's call Izanas fibers.  It's kind of like Dyneema going from SK60 to SK71. 

So my impulsive line order came through and I ordered a variety of line tests. 

YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8
14# at .131 mm
16# at .153 mm
22# at .171 mm
25# at .185 mm

YGK G-Soul SS112 Sinking Braid
10# at .165 mm
14# at .185 mm

All I can say is wow this line is thin.  It feels significantly much thinner than anything I've felt.  Even more thin than the J-Braid x8 Grand.  Will have to give it some line break test and some side to side comparison later.  The clear package spool is a great visual product.  One can really see how nice the line is and how little room it takes.  The appearance is so uniform and even as a braid, it looks like a single monofilament.

Some preliminary line break test on the G-Soul Upgrade X-8 with all knot break failures.
14# listed with four trials: 6#15, 6#12, 7#0, 6#15
16# listed with four trials: 9#0, 9#15, 8#15, 8#15
22# listed with three trials: 13#10, 12#15, 12#10

It's been a while since I've tied and manipulated the knot on thin PE lines.  I can't remember what I did to achieve a higher strength.  However, I'm glad to see a rather consistent breakage.  It means two contributing factor.  First I may be tying a rather consistent knot with how I'm tying.  Second, the line is consistent in uniformity strength with the extrusion process.  As much as I expected that I was not going to get the manufacture listed line break strength, after all that's not what I'm after.  I'm after my real world use of the line and how the knot will hold for me. 

I tried looking for my 6# Diawa J-Braid to make a line to line comparison but couldn't find it at the moment.  I did find some 10# J-Braid X8 and the 4# Berkley Nanofil line.  The 14# G-Soul Upgrade looked thinner than 10# J-Braid while the 16# looked very much alike in diameter.  The 4# Nanofil was just about equal in turns of line diameter thickness.  The line is very pliable.  Compare to Nanofil, it feels very much like it.  The line feels so smooth and has a good body feel almost as if it is one single thread.  There is also a self support and while holding about 4 to 5 inches horizontal of line material.  That's quite amazing and almost feels like a levitation trick.  Getting to about 6 to 7 inches it will be pull down by gravity and is no longer able to self support horizontally.  Compressing the line by pinching and pushing together did not yield any strand separations.  The weave is just too uniform and well packed.  I was only able to see a sign of thread separation after multiple line break of the same sample.  Even then I was not able separate the thread weave.

Further note is that this time I did a really crude line test method.  I kept using the same line even after the first break.  Typically I expect that the sequent test should have yield less results.  After all there were obvious signs of line damage even after the first line break test.  I could see that the thread fluffed up where the fibers broke in multiple spots throughout the sample test line.  Another telltale sign was how the line had contracted into a somewhat bunched deformity of random compressed doodle.  This means that the fibers were stretched and rebounded.  However it's odd that later test of the same sample would yield a higher break strength.  This could hint that the line is still very strong even after some light stressed breakage. 


Honestly to think about using a line and experiencing a line/knot break after tussling with a fish, no one goes and changes the entire spool of line.  You continue to fish with it.  So with this batch of sample and sequentially testing the same broken line sample, it gives me further useful information of what to expect if I should break a line while fishing.  These are some of the most expensive braid line I've purchased by price alone.  However if doing some math for about 200 meters for $30 is about average.  Ice spools are generally $10 for 50 yards. 

The only thing I need to figure out is which spooled reel do I need to give up and trade out lines with.  Then when should I go test out some ice fishing.  For sure this line is gonna get priority for open water fishing.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: maddogg on Feb 10, 2021, 10:06 AM
So if braid tests higher the the said rating.Why do they rate it so low? Do people really think they are getting a better deal when they buy #2 test line that breaks at #5?
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: esox_xtm on Feb 10, 2021, 10:28 AM
So if braid tests higher the the said rating.Why do they rate it so low? Do people really think they are getting a better deal when they buy #2 test line that breaks at #5?

Nearly all lines (includes mono, fluoro, nylon, Dacron, superlines and for all I know, wire) will break at a (sometimes much) higher poundage than the specified test rating. Exceptions include IGFA rated lines used for record hunting. I don't think a 2# line breaking @ 5# is a big deal, especially with superlines. Actual 2# line would likely be so thin as to create some handling issues. Besides, I always have some sort of a leader between my main line and the lure.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 11, 2021, 12:54 AM
I think from a concept of line usage, everyone will be tying a knot with it.  So with lines here in the US from the big companies like Berkley and Stren historically their lines will break just above the stated box stated label with one overhand knot in it.  It is usually the knot that burns the line and pinches it to failure.  The actual line tensile strength is much higher.

Then there are lines that most notably is produced overseas and especially from the Japanese market where they are more interested in the actual line strength breakage.  From my understanding they are more into the silk thread measurement in origination so it's actual line strength breakage and diameter.  Due to the Japanese attention to details, the consistency in performance and accuracy of measurement has become a marketing standard.  So if Japanese companies wish to do business here in the US, they need to re-label their packaging to reflect US market.  They did that for years, until recently their influence has built up enough reputation that they're just leaving their own line strength test labels.   

Then there's the IGFA, upon catching a trophy fish, you submit a line section.  Thus the data record is only after the fact.  There is no line produced for IGFA standards before.  Only after several submission does one get a standard of data collection to state that such line has been IFGA rated.  For consumer purposes, an IGFA rated line does not equal the best quality line.

And for our use and purpose as a consumer, we/I would really like to know if we/I paid x dollars for such a line, is it worth it?  Some lines do turn out to be really great, while some lines do just turn out to be garbage with marketing schemes behind it all.  Most of all what I learn is that, not one product brand is going to be superior over all line diameter.  There's a lot to liking a line and how it behaves in real practical use.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 12, 2021, 08:29 PM
YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8 14# listed.
Quote
Alright so I decided to actually endeavor in a few various knot trails against the FG knot on the 14# G-Soul Upgrade. Of which first test run I tied it only some left over fluorocarbon leader of Seaguar InvisX can't remember if it's 40# or 30#. It was kind of a dirtly sloppy FG knot tie job, but it seems to be holding. What I was attempting was to see if I slip a section of a line onto my standard knot to see if it would create a buffer to support a higher knot strength. The results was astonishing.

Line upon itself yield a result of 5# 9 oz.
Line with 80# braid yield a result of 5# 8 oz.
Line with 4# gamma polyflex: 5# 9 oz.

The results was very consistent knot break. I suppose if the loop right at the knot end next to the main line still compresses the main line, it will create an uneven pull, resulting in a weak spot. That also indicates that even if the line is set onto a dowel the size of the dowel will have a lot of influence on the line break when creating an uneven pull throughout the cross section of the line.

Then doing some bonus testing. Same line still and other knot end is still the same FG knot to fluorocarbon leader.
Palomar knot: 4# 9 oz.
Double Palomar knot: 5# 3 oz.

Then with remaining section of the line, I decided to wrap it around the tackle clip in the same manner as the FG knot to a leader. Again what an eye opener result. Here I was not expecting a higher break strength.
Mock FG onto a line clip: 7# 14 oz.

So onto another FG knot to FG knot trials. This time I'm using standard 30# mono. I need to tie two ends so no fluorocarbon leader, my arms not that long and leader material is a pain to tie. I started out with rather sloppy FG knot tying, then went onto doing it more carefully. My one other FG knot was holding so well, it stood throughout all other three tests, with the same line.

The results with three trials. 8#4, 8#15, 9#14.

The line breaks just at the knot. This is probably due to the line pinch and the main line is not pulled with even pressure throughout the whole cross section. So this means that I should probably use a leader and FG knot instead of tying direct to lure or end tackle for my purpose
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 12, 2021, 10:48 PM
Out of curiosity I decided to check out the knot strength on the FG knot.  It's an FG knot to FG knot on 30# mono.

YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8 line is the candidate since their package list the max line strength.  So I am curious as to what can I get.

FG knot to knot on 30# mono.
14# listed with three trials: 8#4, 8#15, 9#14
16# listed with three trials: 13#10, 14#1, 13#13

compared to my knot to swivel.
14# listed with four trials: 6#15, 6#12, 7#0, 6#15
16# listed with four trials: 9#0, 9#15, 8#15, 8#15

I took more care tying the 14# sequentially and got higher break resistance results.  While the 16# I was able to just be more consistent and didn't need to take extra time on my looping adjustments.   Again what is strange is that with the test samples, had one orginal FG knot that held through all three trials while the other ones I retied on the same line sequentially kept breaking.  What are the chances of that?  Meaning that one of the FG knot I ties is still potentially have a much higher break strength that my results.  With my knot to swivel, it's consistent that one of the knot break is either one.  I never figure the FG knot to give such a higher break strength yield.  I was never good at tying the FG knot and always forget how to.  I have to reference youtube just to tie it.  That's now often I tie it.  I probably tied more FG knot this week than I have in my entire lifetime, so it feels.  I am going to put the FG knot into my practical use now.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Feb 21, 2021, 08:57 PM
Sufix 832 Advance Ice Braid 4# .100 mm : FG knot to FG knot on 30# mono

Three trials all knot breaks: 13#7, 12# 1, 12#1


Sufix 832 Advance Braid 10# .200 mm : FG knot to FG knot on 30# mono

Three trials all knot breaks: 15#, 20#, 19# 14


Sufix 832 has always been a long time favorite and was the very first 8 strand braid I've used in small diameter.  I've always felt that this line was a bit stronger than it's box listed# and with this FG knot trail I'm finding that is even more so true.  These knot breaks are getting me closer to the actual line tensile breaking strength.  It's just way to radical to find such high discrepancy in the box listed line strength. 
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Nov 30, 2021, 12:01 AM
It's been a while since I really have no need for new lines to replace anything as of yet.  By a whim of Black Friday Sales deal I have ordered some newer line, Sufix 131 G-Core Braided Line.  I'll be putting it through a strength test in the doldrums before my first ice trip.

I ordered some 6# and 10# listed lines.  The 6# is listed to have a diameter of .14 mm and the 10# is listed to have a diameter of .20 mm.  So it basically follows the same line diameter as 832 Advance Braid.
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Dec 02, 2021, 11:54 PM
Sufix 131 G-Core Braided Line 6# .14 mm

Knot to knot on small terminal swivels.  Three trials on the same line.

Knot breaks: 9# 4, 9# 9, and 9# 6

FG knot to FG knot: 11# 12 oz.

This line is smooth, very smooth.  When I took a small section, I did my finger pinch and compress a saw that the line weave did unravell.  The knot break strengths are within parameters but compared to other lines, seems like the threshold of line strength is down a little bit.  Perhaps it has something to do with smaller strands as since there is 13 strands in this line compared to a similar diameter of 8 strand lines.

Sufix 832 Ice Braid .10mm 4# knot break 9# 2 oz. (FG knot break 13# 7 oz.) 
Diawa J-Braid Grand x8 .13 mm 8# knot break 10# 12 oz.
Diawa J-Braid Grand x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 16# 14 oz.
Diawa J-Braid x8 .06 mm 6# knot break 8# 4 oz. (FG knot break 9# 3 oz.)
Diawa J-Braid x8 .15 mm 10# knot break 13# (FG knot break 17# 12 oz.)
YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8 .131 mm 14# listed knot break 6# 15 oz. (FG knot break 9# 14 oz.)
YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8 .153 mm 16# listed knot break 9# 7 oz. (FG knot break 14# 1 oz.)

Still the smoothness of this line is top notch. 
Title: Re: Line strength test
Post by: slipperybob on Dec 04, 2021, 12:41 AM
Sufix 131 G-Core Braided Line 10# .20 mm

Knot to knot on small terminal swivels.  Three trials on the same line.

Knot breaks: 12# 4, 11# 9, and 11# 12

FG knot to FG knot: 17# 13 oz.

Over all I am a bit disappointed in the knot strength of this sample.  I was expecting to get over 15 plus pounds of break force but it snapped too often at below 12 pounds.  From the previous 6# line tests I wasn't expecting to to get over 20# but getting almost 18# of break force is very respectable for the FG knot.  Compared to other 8 strands braids in roughly the same listed line diameter, the G-Core Braid breaks below it's competitors.  I suspect that smaller strands means easier failure tensile strength.

Sufix 832 Braid .20 mm 10/4 knot break 17# 5 oz. (FG knot break 20#)
Diawa J-Braid x8 .19 mm 15# knot break 18#
YGK G-Soul Upgrade X-8 .185 mm 25# listed knot break 14# 13 oz. (FG knot break 18# 14 oz.)