Author Topic: RIDGID OCTANE 1300 IN/LB HAMMER DRILL. OVERLOAD PROTECTION TEST  (Read 75707 times)

Offline lefty2053

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Well that is a bummer.
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FISHFORPIKE

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Where's the PIC of that fish!

Offline MT204

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Is this  it?
Just ran across this.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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So i was in the fail to start group but today it quit mid hole after 15 holes.not all at once either,a few here and there.27 degrees and full battery and ice was about 10”.i hit the trigger and start cutting then stop,hit the trigger ,stop.i had to start new a new hole to get it to cut again.i think my drill is starting to act up worse with fail to start and cut out mid hole now.i told myself im running this drill until its broken.it cuts great when it works right.

Offline DTro

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Yes, that's the video above.







Offline teampar

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Awsome fish! congrats 😎

I have the Milwaukee Fuel/k-drill combo, overall I am happy with it. But I still consider it an early ice option. I am however glad I have the Milwaukee over the Rigid as their appears to be many people having issues with the Rigid.



Offline TickleStick

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Damn nice fish  :clap:

Bummer about the drill, I'm still waiting to get my battery and charger delivered....I hope mine does not cause problems

It seems like they are all having issues on here on the forum
WINTER IS COMING!

Offline CO_Dinky

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As far as I'm concerned there is no difference in using it on an auger and using it with a big concrete drill.

If you got your drill wet and it malfunctioned, that's a different story.  The drill for me isn't cutting out mid-cut, it's cutting out before it even starts spinning, so regardless of what I'm using it for, there is still a problem with it.

I agree, but HD might not see it the same way.  I wouldn't mention it if I had to use the LSA.

So if you've never had it cut out, that shows inconsistency as well.  If we ALL have cutout issues, we could assume it's either supposed to happen OR it was something that got overlooked during testing. But your setup seems to be fine....even more confusing.  What kind of temps are you using it in?

I've definitely not been using it in as cold of temps as others.  I've had mine down to low 20's without any issue.

Those drills are made to turn at least a 4" Wood hole cutting bit if not a 6".  I don't see using 8" Augers going through Ice with sharp blades putting any more torque on it than the Wood bits or the Concrete bits. But of course those Wood and Concrete bits don't weigh anywhere near the same as an Auger bit.

The ice augers definitely have more mass/intertia, and that will most certainly make a difference in start-up load!
Tight lines!

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Nice catch DTro   :thumbsup:

Offline CO_Dinky

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Well I had cut out issues today. Didn't even want to make it through the first hole. I believe it's a temperature extreme issue, coupled with the Octane "smart" circuitry. I left my battery and drill overnight in the truck, and it got down to 0*.  When I coupled the app, the battery temperature read 470 degrees?!? While sitting in the cab of the truck, it eventually calibrated to 32*. Even though it was fully charged, I was reading only 80%

I had a hard time drilling five holes. It seemed that if I ran the drill with no load for a few seconds (warming it up a touch?), it would cut through a bit better.

Are you sure it was 470Ί and not 460Ί?  Mine does that too, as soon as the app shows it go below 32Ί, it reads 460Ί.   I'm betting the app developer messed up the equation to calculate from Rankine (or maybe even Kelvin) to Fahrenheit.  There's a "459.67Ί" in that equation...  Probably an absolute value or order of operations error in their conversion equation (though I would expect the error at 0Ί and not 32Ί, making me think the RTD or thermocouple is measuring in Kelvin, but I digress).

So I decided to do a bit of testing this afternoon.
Now before anyone gets all upset the tests were on Milwaukee tools, sorry no spare Ridgids to experiment on.
My interest was the inrush current (amps) on the tool with or without a auger attached, in this case an 8" (7.75") auger.
I used 2 older Milwaukee 2604 brushless drilsl and a MudMixer (my auger tool).
Kinda interesting and I repeated the test on 2 different 2604 drills.
For the max in rush it was pull the trigger full blast for all it was worth.
2604 drill   low range (1) no bit/no load running 3.3 amps, max inrush 80 amps.
2604 drill  high range (2) no bit no load running 5.0 amps, max inrush 100 amps
2604 drill low range (1) with 8" Krill  no load running 12.5 amps, max inrush 250 amps, (yep that correct in speed 1)!
MudMixer ran on 5 speed setting.
MudMixer running with out auger 5.5 running amps, inrush 35 amps.
MudMixer running with 8" Kdrill 6.5 running amps, inrush 41 amps.
By starting the drills "slowly" I could limit the inrush to under 10 amps on both tools!
Now I know your all wondering what the "max loaded" amperage was. Well just didn't have enough hands, wire and a load to do that.
I was able to put some load on the MudMixer with the auger but didn't see anything over 10 amps kinda inconclusive.
Whats my take on this data?
Ya I know it's Milwaukee but probably pretty close for most other brands.
I personally feel that the "fail to start" issue is because the Octane has so much power in a small chassis that the inrush/starting current is tripping the overload circuitry of the drill and/or battery (as they talk to each other).
I also feel that the "cut out" CO issue is the tool trying to save it's self.
This sorta makes since as the MudMixer doesn't have the fail to start issue but some are having the stop on break through.
Bottom line TRY starting slowly, don't push so hard on break through?
Just some food for thought.
Your mileage may vary.

Thank you for that explanation!  Some of the folks here clearly do not understand how the battery ratings are made.  Was really grating on my engineer brain.   ::)  "Ah" (Amp-hours) is a really dumb way to rate batteries in my opinion, it should be "Wh" (Watt-Hours) to be more accurate and take the operating voltage into account.

Also, battery "nominal" voltage is a bit stupid to me as well.  Our "18v" Ridgid tools are not really 18v.  Since an individual Li-Ion cell voltage typically varies from 3.6 volts when empty, to 4.2 volts at full charge, our tools are likely 5-cell (series) tools, and actually only at 18v when DEAD!  At full charge, they're more like 21 volts!  The 3Ah Octane battery would then be a 5-cell pack with the 5 cells wired in series, and the individual cells rated at 3,000 mAh (3Ah).  The Octane 9Ah pack would then be a 15-cell pack, with 3 parallel-wired groups of 5 cells wired in series.  Basically think of the 9Ah pack like 3 of the 3Ah packs hooked up to the drill all at once!



Nils is nothing like the Lazer blades.

I wouldn't quite go that far.  The Lazer shaver blades have a VERY similar edge geometry to the Nils heads of the same diameter.  Like basically identical.  Close enough that when I've manually measured the angle of attack and curvatures between the two, I can't see a difference with 0.1Ί and 0.001" precision mechanical tools.  IF there is a difference at all, I'd need a 3D laser measurement device to see it.

This is why I laugh when folks always say the Nils is so superior to the Lazer...

The 6 inch laser is pretty much a nills you throw a off set handle on a 6 inch laser they cut the same..

Yep!

but a 7 and 8 inch laser is a way different ball game.. cause of those vee'd bars on the cutting head.. the laser take more effort cause of those bars..

I somewhat disagree.  Those bars are well behind the cutting edge and have little drag on a clean auger cutting the ice.  If the auger was threading through the ice instead of shaving it off, then maybe it would be an issue. But since the ice breaks apart when the edge hits it, those bars add little additional resistance.  Maybe a tiny bit, but not so much to be noticeable in my opinion.  They do provide additional support to the fighting that holds the blades in place, and keeping the geometry correct is pretty important!
Tight lines!

Offline CO_Dinky

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OK guys I NEED to share my experience with you that I had last night.   Get out to our spot.  We had 24" of measured ice and I have the 1300 and I brought my extra 9ah battery (so a total of 2 9ah batteries).  I have the 8" kdrill and drill 4 sets of 3 holes overlapped.   What I usually do is drill all three just until they break through then finish them off.  I've noticed it takes a lot more torque to drill through the slurry slush if I drill each one through entirely. 

First off let me say that I did try messing with the trigger a bit when I first started and YES if I barely pulled the trigger it would cut out every time, even before i started one hole  I had to give it the nuts and it worked fine that way.

Ok so i get 3 sets of 3 drilled so basically 9 holes through 24".  And then 1/3 of the 4th set and the drill cut out mid hole (hole number 10).  So at that point I figure ok, I'll throw my spare battery on.  I connect it and same thing, it keeps cutting out and I can feel the heat.  Without a doubt it was heat/drill related as the new battery made no difference.  So I stumbled my way through the last hole (waiting a few minutes inbetween engagements). And decide to keep that set at only a double hole instead of a triple hole since I don't want to kill my drill.     After that I put the drill outside to cool off.   

Fast forward about 3 hours later and I get a MONSTER fish on.  I'm talking like fish of a lifetime Monster and of course its on the double hole not the triple hole.  We get it up and the fish has NO chance to come up the double hole.  So I go out and grab the drill to overlap another hole, and it won't drill.  It keeps cutting out.  Is to TOO COLD NOW?   I have no idea what was going on but one battery was at 3 bars and the other at 2 and neither was working well.  I was able to barely get one more hole in.  Then we find out that the fish won't come up 3 holes!   Well, now i'm stuck....   I put out an emergency call to nearby fisherman to come help me cut another hole and luckily someone came over with an ION and helped out.   

We did end up getting the fish through the hole (we actually need 5 8" holes), but man oh man, the Rigid flaked out on me and left me hanging. :(  With 2 9ah batteries I should have never had to worry at all.   I'm pretty sure I'm going to just go and return everything I bought.  I don't every want to be in that position even again.

Here's how it all unfolded.   

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

AWESOME fish Dtro!!!   :o :clap: :thumbsup:  @) @) @) Pretty amazing video too!

I'm sad to hear that the Ridgid let you down here when it mattered the most.  I can understand it stopping itself to prevent overheating, and I'm OK with that.  But how cold was it out where the drill was sitting? I don't know why there's a low temperature issue, other than the Li-Ion batteries just might not be able to put out enough amperage when they're that cold.  The drill itself shouldn't have any problem with the cold.

It's a known issue, and chemistry-related, that Li-Ion cells can't do well when too cold, just the nature of the battery type.  Higher voltage (and thus lower amperage requirement per cell) is the only real solution here, and that is likely why many of the electric specific augers are 40 volts and above.  Can still get the higher wattage to the motor while keeping the amperage draw low to the individual cells.  The only thing we can do when using the more budget-friendly drill option is to keep the batteries from getting too cold in high demand applications like yours when the need to be able to drill through 2' of ice consistently.

Congrats again on the TROPHY!!!  :thumbsup:

So i was in the fail to start group but today it quit mid hole after 15 holes.not all at once either,a few here and there.27 degrees and full battery and ice was about 10”.i hit the trigger and start cutting then stop,hit the trigger ,stop.i had to start new a new hole to get it to cut again.i think my drill is starting to act up worse with fail to start and cut out mid hole now.i told myself im running this drill until its broken.it cuts great when it works right.

I'd definitely be getting that particular drill exchanged if I were in your shoes.  Dtro cut about 230" of ice, consecutively, using an 8" Kdrill which is probably the most taxing auger but you can put on the drill, before having an apparent heat-related shut off with his drill.  Unless yours is overheating at 150" for some reason? Did it feel hot? Was the battery full when you started?

Edit:  Ah, I see you're using a Clam plate.  That could be it too.  Perhaps that is causing additional stress/resistance on the drill vs. just having the auger mounted directly?
Tight lines!

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Battery was at 3 bars because i used it the day before.85% charged according to the app.never gets hot even after cutting 25 holes back to back.the fail to start problems are from day one.the cutout mid hole started today.think it may have bound up on a double layer section of ice but even when it was out of the hole it did the fail to start.it does the fts with or without the plate.im running this drill until it breaks.guys that have returned or exchanged still have the same problems so i will just run it.non of the problems prevents me to drill 25 to 40 holes per day.

Offline CO_Dinky

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Definitely an exchange candidate then, IMO.
Tight lines!

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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I already knew the drill for a auger is not answer to everything but for the skinny ice we have it works alright.it works but still wont be a replacement for my gas or propane augers.

Offline lefty2053

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I was going to buy 2 6AH batteries this year and the 1300 "# next year. I am really glad I bought the Eskimo M51 Gas auger instead. I am 66 but hey 32 #'s is not a problem for me. I will continue with it until I can no longer fish. My Z51 I had was still running strong when I sold it. And I can sharpen these blades with no problem. I will use my Mini Nero for early ice only.
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Offline DTro

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Alright so I went back and watched my video footage (edited parts I clipped out)  I noticed that when I needed to drill the extra hole after I caught the fish, I went to drill and the auger head was froze up so I was banging on it a little bit to bite and also now I was drilling an overlapping hole that has already been drilled (remember I said I normally drill it and clean it out without breaking through).  Things I have taken away from this experience.

1.   Heat is definitely a factor when continuously drilling hole after hole in succession.  I’ve proven this by swapping out a new battery after it cuts out and also letting it sit up to 24 hours between holes.
2.   Drilling overlapping holes in anything over 12” is a big problem, especially when the holes are full of water and slush.  If you are going to do this get your holes mostly drilled and cleaned out and then break through one by one.  It’s amazing how much more torque it takes to overlap the hole when it fills with water and slush.  It REALLY taxes the drill. 
3.   The overload protection might be too sensitive on this Ridgid drill, but also probably not designed for our application.
4.   For most people this drill will work great. 

For how I fish, I wonder if an ice saw wouldn’t be a better option for connecting holes, especially late season when the ice is really thick.

Offline lowaccord66

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As for overlapping, Drill them close and use your spud.  Quick and easy and you won't wreck your drill!

Offline 3300

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Alright so I went back and watched my video footage (edited parts I clipped out)  I noticed that when I needed to drill the extra hole after I caught the fish, I went to drill and the auger head was froze up so I was banging on it a little bit to bite and also now I was drilling an overlapping hole that has already been drilled (remember I said I normally drill it and clean it out without breaking through).  Things I have taken away from this experience.

1.   Heat is definitely a factor when continuously drilling hole after hole in succession.  I’ve proven this by swapping out a new battery after it cuts out and also letting it sit up to 24 hours between holes.
2.   Drilling overlapping holes in anything over 12” is a big problem, especially when the holes are full of water and slush.  If you are going to do this get your holes mostly drilled and cleaned out and then break through one by one.  It’s amazing how much more torque it takes to overlap the hole when it fills with water and slush.  It REALLY taxes the drill. 
3.   The overload protection might be too sensitive on this Ridgid drill, but also probably not designed for our application.
4.   For most people this drill will work great. 

For how I fish, I wonder if an ice saw wouldn’t be a better option for connecting holes, especially late season when the ice is really thick.

i'm not experiencing the extra load on my auger while overlapping holes at all using lazer 8 inch, but it's not a foot of snow either. the way mine cuts it doesn't slow down ever and i listen to each cut. listening allow you to know if you should lighten up the speed of the cut by lifting some so it takes less materiel per revolution. the weight or inertia might be another factor that the lazer and nils have over composite augers.

the flight system clears shavings and pulls water up to the knees. i never have to raise or lift any pressure from my auger or try to help it clear out any thing. after it's done making a hole it is clear of shavings. it does it so fast i try to shut the motor off on break thru so i don't fill the tops of boots and the front of my bibs with water that quickly turns to ice.

so it sounds like a combination of the krdill chipper blades and composite flight system that is ineffective of removing shavings fast enough and on it's own is the difference. the blades don't have a sharp edge all of the way across so the parts that don't just slow the cut and take more energy and create more heat. the flight can't remove the weight of the shavings on the back side of the blades and again creates a bigger load and uses more energy and creates more heat. when you lift to try to clear them the octane must see the load differences and tries to adjust for them. then there is the going straight back down the hole the same way it was cut each time you lift not being exact and what that may do to the system. the difference between this drill and the rest is the intelligent circuit system that tries to match the power output based on the load. you keep changing it with the kdrill.

what does your dewalt do in same conditions drilling that many overlapping holes?

don't you have a different auger from before the kdrill to use?

Offline DTro

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i'm not experiencing the extra load on my auger while overlapping holes at all using lazer 8 inch, but it's not a foot of snow either. the way mine cuts it doesn't slow down ever and i listen to each cut. listening allow you to know if you should lighten up the speed of the cut by lifting some so it takes less materiel per revolution. the weight or inertia might be another factor that the lazer and nils have over composite augers.

the flight system clears shavings and pulls water up to the knees. i never have to raise or lift any pressure from my auger or try to help it clear out any thing. after it's done making a hole it is clear of shavings. it does it so fast i try to shut the motor off on break thru so i don't fill the tops of boots and the front of my bibs with water that quickly turns to ice.

so it sounds like a combination of the krdill chipper blades and composite flight system that is ineffective of removing shavings fast enough and on it's own is the difference. the blades don't have a sharp edge all of the way across so the parts that don't just slow the cut and take more energy and create more heat. the flight can't remove the weight of the shavings on the back side of the blades and again creates a bigger load and uses more energy and creates more heat. when you lift to try to clear them the octane must see the load differences and tries to adjust for them. then there is the going straight back down the hole the same way it was cut each time you lift not being exact and what that may do to the system. the difference between this drill and the rest is the intelligent circuit system that tries to match the power output based on the load. you keep changing it with the kdrill.

what does your dewalt do in same conditions drilling that many overlapping holes?

don't you have a different auger from before the kdrill to use?

I also noticed a big tax on the DeWalt when it flooded the overlapping hole.  The difference was that the DeWalt just slow down and not smell very good.  :)    I've always been told that overlapping holes with a shaver blade (lazer) is not a good thing to do.  Maybe I should give that a try.  Was also considering stepping down to a 6" kdrill or Nils and drilling separate adjacent holes and then connecting them with an ice saw instead of overlapping.  This big hole game is a different beast with 24" of ice and I understand is a very niche thing that most people will never have to deal with. 

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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I have a fishs sporting ice saw.i cuts ice so easy.drill 3 or 4 holes and connect them.a few sweeps with that saw even in thick ice and done.overlapping holes with shaver blades doesnt work very good and i can see it shutting a drill down.

Offline 3300

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i did it off and on with my 6 inch lazer for 7 years at least. i also used it to make ice top coolers to keep fish in. make partial holes and build an area that can be filled with water so they can breath in it. it finally acted up last season so i replaced it with new in the 6 inch lazer. it acted like one blade wasn't working so i installed new blades to see if it would help and it did not. i know it could be adjusted, but not sure how to make it match the other side. this season with this drill out i wanted to try fishing from a bigger hole and went with the 8 inch lazer in part because it has kickers built-in kickers to keep the blade pitch in tact. the 6 inch didn't have it.

you might think about going smaller to connect the dots for that sort of fishing or try another brand that is all steel with kickers like the lazer has on the 8 inch. i'm not sure if it's on the 7 inch. i don't think the nils has them.

Offline TickleStick

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Is it good to run these batteries completely dead or have them completely charged?

My battery and charger should be here today....
WINTER IS COMING!

Offline MT204

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Is it good to run these batteries completely dead or have them completely charged?

My battery and charger should be here today....
Keep them charged!!!!
Do not run them dead dead if possible.

Offline 3300

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for more than 10 days storage they should be near 72%. when you know you'll use them before 10 days keep them ready. the charger left unplugged can discharge them for you. the bms will protect them from discharging too far, but there is no memory like ni-cads had.
you can use the app to monitor discharge percentage.

they won't be fully cycled for the first few charges, but do charge it before using it.

100% charge stress the cells out as does other things like extreme temps. you may not see or know the difference it makes until long term, but won't have a comparison either. with ridgid it's ok if you don't baby them as they will give you new ones and you just register the new battery(s) each time you get them to get the lsa on them.

my dji mavic pro drone batteries take care of this for me. 10 days is standard setting, but i can adjust how many days it takes for them to self discharge.

Offline DTro

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i did it off and on with my 6 inch lazer for 7 years at least. i also used it to make ice top coolers to keep fish in. make partial holes and build an area that can be filled with water so they can breath in it. it finally acted up last season so i replaced it with new in the 6 inch lazer. it acted like one blade wasn't working so i installed new blades to see if it would help and it did not. i know it could be adjusted, but not sure how to make it match the other side. this season with this drill out i wanted to try fishing from a bigger hole and went with the 8 inch lazer in part because it has kickers built-in kickers to keep the blade pitch in tact. the 6 inch didn't have it.

you might think about going smaller to connect the dots for that sort of fishing or try another brand that is all steel with kickers like the lazer has on the 8 inch. i'm not sure if it's on the 7 inch. i don't think the nils has them.

"kickers"?   You mean the side support leg things?  Or is that something on the blades?

Offline 3300

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goes from near outer end of each blade back to the augers shaft and welded. one for each blade. will make bending the flap that holds each blade much harder to do.

shows it on one side, but it is on both sides.


you can see the several blade designs strikemaster uses in here. the mora tends to walk and has less control before it gets started. that should make it hard to overlap holes. ht mini nero uses same design as the mora, so again not very stable getting started compared to the triangle shaped blades. i have a hand me down mora, but don't use it. the mora should be easier to sharpen from the looks of it. i think the finbore used the triangle shaped blades and used an offset handle was the only difference.
concave vs convex. concave gives more of a starting point than convex does. some have added a center point for their mora to get it under better control starting.
https://assets.fishusa.com/product_images/94097003/hand-auger-owners-manual.pdf

Offline TickleStick

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So I took mine out today, I got one of the batteries from ebay, it came 25% charged (one line) decided to go try it out.

I drilled probably 5-7 holes, it did cut out on me on every hole....

I will wait until I get the charger and another battery to try it again but if it does keep this up I will be exchanging it. 
WINTER IS COMING!

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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I would expect it to cut out with 1 bar in the cold.

Offline TickleStick

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I would expect it to cut out with 1 bar in the cold.

Agreed, that is why I will wait for the charger to come.

The ice was 14" with 4" of snow on top...
WINTER IS COMING!

Offline 3300

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batteries sold on ebay have zero warranty from ridgid. private sellers are not authorized retailers. if the seller told you differently, you should request your money back asap and maybe start a paypal dispute to hurry up the process. i called ridgid about this for someone asking in a pm. have to be careful with knock offs too.

 



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