Oxygenator

[Hardguy]

I bought an oxygenator last week. It is the $50 one for the bait bucket. They also make a larger one for live wells. Anyway I bought it because I am getting sick of loosing minnows/shiners. Since I bought it I have lost everything. This thing is in a 2 gallon insulated bait bucket (which it is rated for 2-8 gallons). I can not figure it out. I lost $25 worth of bait since last week. No live bait lasted 4 hours. Did anyone have this happen and Why?

[Oldbear]

Maybe its the water.  Tap water has to be treated or left out for 24hrs. to get rid of the Chlorine.  Thats assuming they aren't overcrowded.

[BASSandICE65]

If you are using tap water then buy water conditioner at any pet shop add a few drops to each gallon removes cholorine and flouride. If not try using a small fish tank with a aquarium pump it will oxygenate the water and clean it at the same time. Then when you are going fishing take the water from the tank and take only the amount of minnows you think you will need. That way the fish won't go into temperature shock. Other than that who knows

Keith

[shrub]

I bought an oxygenator last week. It is the $50 one for the bait bucket. They also make a larger one for live wells. Anyway I bought it because I am getting sick of loosing minnows/shiners. Since I bought it I have lost everything. This thing is in a 2 gallon insulated bait bucket (which it is rated for 2-8 gallons). I can not figure it out. I lost $25 worth of bait since last week. No live bait lasted 4 hours. Did anyone have this happen and Why?

does your bait shop keep their water aerated? if not they might not be used to the aerated water.

[irishjigger]

25 dollars worth of bait in a 2 gal bucket is a bit much if you ask me . Also like some of the other replies if you have public water , not from your own well , then you can have a problem with chlorinated water , even minimum amounts will affect them . And if you are putting them in an insulated pail are you storing them in the cold , I actually put a couple inches of slush in the bucket , it slows down their metabolism and seems to keep them better . I would try to get yourself a five or six gallon bucket , and about a dozen or two in bait and try that before spending another 25$ of fertilizer .

[irishjigger]

Madcap your right , youve never had a problem because you let the chlorine dilute itself , right after you pour it in bucket add the bait and see what happens , if you are on city water that is all you need to do . I quess I did not clarify that , just pour a bucket full and let it sit for a couple of days before adding bait . Its the same as if you were to buy fish at a pet store, they would tell you the same thing . As far as the foam on top of a large tank , could not answer that , there is alot of different things that could cause that . If you didnt have problems for several months and then all of a sudden overnite you did ?? Did the oxygenator sound any different ? Did you see that it was creating more bubbles ? alot of different things .

[irishjigger]

No I know how you feel , you try to save yourself a few bucks by keeping your own bait and it comes back to bite you . Im in a business that deals with water chemistry and you cant believe what can effect water . To much to list . I am going to start buying bulk spikes and such , but the bait fish? Nothing more than a couple dozen for a couple weeks , they just dont seem to do good for me , and ends up costing me time and money ?

[Hardguy]

I have been using the small ($50 unit) Oxygenator in my bait bucket for years with no problems.  This bucket holds about 1 gallon water and I put 1 - 2 dozen medium shiners in it.  Usually put the bait in this bucket in the morning and they are fine when I get home in the evening.  This works only in the winter where I keep the water temp around 40F.

This year I tried the big ($120 unit) oxygenator in my 70 gallon bait holding tank that I keep outside ( I use an aquarium heater to keep the water temp just above freezing).  The bait were good and healthy for several months prior to using the Oxygenator.  I lost all my bait, app 400 medium shiners, overnight.  The water had a layer of foam on top and all the bait were dead, never saw anything like that before.  I called the oxygenator company that day about my problem.  VERY unhelpfull!  All they told me was that their units aren't for everyone!!  I asked why I had a layer of fom on top after using their unit and all they could say was the Oxygenator wasn't for me.  I wasn't asking for them to reimburse me for my bait, I was just trying to figure our what happened so I could avoid it happening again.  I returned the Oxygenator to Cabelas and got a full refund.  I'll keep using the small unit but never use the large unit again.

I'm guessing that your problem was probably the same as my problem.  Not sure what causes this.  I'm thinking it has something to do with over oxygenating the water - but this is just a guess.  The small unit is thermostatically controlled the big unit runs constantly.

My water is city chlorinated water.  I keep several 5 gallon buckets filled with water overnight before I add water.  The chlorine evaporates within 24 hours and the water is safe for bait.  I never use any type of chemicals like chlorine remover or anything else.  I recirculate the holding tank water with a large aquarium filter.  Been doing this for years and never had a problem.  This works only in the winter, soon as the water temps rise above 55F I start having all kinds of problems.  After ice fishing I take my tank apart and store it in the attic until next winter. 

Bingo!! Foam everywhere. On the fish and all over the lid. I instantly thought it over oxygenated the water. It is made for 2 to 8 gallons of water. It claims it can condition 8 gallons in 2 or 3 minutes. It also should cycle on and off. I never saw it off. Why does it run forever in 2 gallons? Anyway to go back and explain a little better, I have had quite a few large aquariums over the years ( 55 and 90 gallon ). I did pick up on a few things. I keep 2 five gallon buckets of water in the unheated garage at all times. They will sit two days before I use any of the water. I also keep another 5 gallon bucket with the bait and a regular air stone. No problem. I bought the oxygenator to get the bait to the lake and back ( An hour and a half drive one way ). They used to be fine with out any air stone etc. I just could not leave well enough alone! I thought this may help keep larger shiners longer as they seem to be less hardy. I do not like to get bait in the morning so I like to keep it on hand. In the morning I will fill my 2 gallon from the 5 and put a dozen and a half minnies in it. In goes the killing machine and I am off. By the time I get to the lake most are dead. Within another hour all are dead and the foam is oozing. I thought maybe the 2 gallon was too little water so I plopped the oxygenator in the 5 gallon bucket. Guess what? I had to go back to the tackle shop anyway as it killed all. Now I can rule out too little water and chlorine in the water. I also put a couple minnows in the two gallon thinking I was over crowding. It killed 2 minnies in less than two hours. I emailed them but did not hear from them yet! I will update when I hear from them.

[irishjigger]

Thanks Madcap , Ill keep that in mind !!

[Hardguy]

Hardguy: the small unit has a small green LED on it and I do see my LED cycling on & off.  When it's on I see a small amount of bubbles coming out.  I'm using this small Oxygenator in about 1 gallon of water and it works fine.  Never saw any foam on top of the water of my bait bucket.  I'll be honest, I don't really think that water that's below 40F needs to be heavily oxygenated.  The main reason I use it is 1 gallon of water does not contain enough oxygen to support 2 dozen shiners for 8 hours.  I don't put the oxygenator in the bucket until I get to the ice then I take it out evertime I'm taking the bucket to a tip-up.

I keep the oxygenator in the bucket at all times. I did not know I should turn it off. The green light is always on. I never saw it off. I do see the small cloud of bubbles coming out. Like you I thought two gallons could not contain that much oxygen. You are probably right as to not needing oxygen in 40 degree water but I started using medium to large shiners for pike and was concerned. As I said previously the shiners seem to be less hardy. I also figured I will need more oxygen during the open water season so it would make sense. Maybe this thing is just stuck on and overdoing it. I do get foam everytime I use it and not just a little.

[Hardguy]

MM. I will not let this go. I went the extra mile and bought the most expensive unit out there. I expect the courtesy of an explanation. I think if this unit would have cycled everything would have been fine. I do remember the first time I put minnies in it and turned it on. In a couple of minutes they were more lively than I ever saw them. It does claim to do that. Back to the cycling, if it would have it also would extend the battery life. Mine has 4 AA batteries. I am still on my first set. How long do you batteries last?

[Hardguy]

I do not think mine will run that long on the batteries unless it cycles. It may make sense as yours is in one gallon and shutting off early. Could be defective. You would think if I mentioned to them the foam that they would instantly know what the problem is. Or maybe they do not want to admit there is a problem!!!

[Gusman14]

I buy bulk grubs, spikes & meal worms.  Really easy to keep.  I bought 10,000 meal works about 5 years ago, and would you believe the remainder (I'm guessing maybe 3,000) are still alive and well!!  I don't do anything to them but put them on the bottom shelf of my refrigerator.  Some do die, but I'm amazed most just keep on living!!  Now the spikes....  they last about 1 month and that's it, so I buy just what I think I'll use for 1 month.

So what do you feed these meal worms?

[Hardguy]

Well I talked to Matt at the companies office. He must be related to the guy MM talked to. He can not answer general questions about the product. He does not even know if it should cycle on and off. He blames it on the water and the buildup of carbon dioxide. He claims that you have to agitate the water surface to allow the escape of carbon dioxide. He can not explain why this does not happen when there is no air stone or oxygenator in the bucket. He is going to send me a host of free water additives that he wants me to try. I asked if he had seen this before. He said that for everyone that gets the foamy fish kill, two do not and are happy. I then pointed out that you can not run a business on 66% customer satisfaction and there was nothing on the package that warns of a one in three possibilty of a fish kill. He told me that they just aquired the company in late November 06 and do not have alot of history at this time. He advised me to try these products. If they do not work return the unit to Gander for an exchange. Try the second unit and if it does not work ask for a refund. I am beginning to see why the original company sold. I do hope the second one works as I like the physical size of this unit. I am not going to hold my breath but I will give it another chance. I will not use additives every time as I never did before and I will experiment with alot less minnies!

[Walltrout]

This may seem to obvious but I will put it out there anyway.  Did you guys rinse out your containers before using them?  Who knows what kind of chemicals may have gotten into them before you bought it.  Pure water does not foam. (take a bottle of drinking water and shake it for all your worth and you still wont't get foam) There must be something disolved in the water to do that. The foam you see in sea water is actually disolved protiens.  In the salt water aquarium business they use this concept to create a protein skimmer to remove these impurities from the water.

 If the fish were living fine in the water before putting them in the bucket, then it must be the bucket.  Try scrubbing it down real good.  Then run it without any minnows to see if the foam occurs.  If none, then try again with minnows.

One thing to note is fish wastes cause a build up of ammonia.  Too much ammonia will kill fish right away.  Less fish equals slower build up of ammonia. Never try to feed your minnows in a bucket for this reason.  Also too much temperature change too quickly will kill fish. 

[Walltrout]

So what do you feed these meal worms?

I have kept a batch of mealworms for years. This is how.

Keep them at room temperature in a shoe box half full of uncooked oatmeal.  I don't put the lid on the box because the worms and beetles can not climb up the sides and I think they do better with theair circulation. (be carefull not to spill them though)  Feed some fresh vegtables weekly.  The worms will turn to pupae then into beetles which will lay eggs that hatch into tiny little worms and start the cycle over again. If things start to get moldy, you are feeding them too much.  I usually just throw about 2 baby carrots or 1/2 a potato. Don't take the old food out unless it is moldy or dried up.  The beetles will lay eggs on the food. 

One plastic shoe box should keep you stocked with all the worms you will ever need.  It may take a while to build up your initial stock if you only start with a few though.  I keep lizards and this is a stable food item for them.   

[ice dawg]

Irishjigger, the Oxygenator was brand new so I didn't have anything to compare it to.  All I know is the bait were alive and well, put the Oxygenator into the 70 gallon tank and within 7 hours everything was dead.  I will admit that I didn't like the looks of the bubbles being produced by the oxygenator.  The bubbles were coming out looking like a cloud in the water, this was a cloud of bubbles.  I know the water quality was perfect, I filter the water exactly the way the wholesaler where I buy the bait from filters their water.  I copied my filter, filtration medium & chemicals from their system, they are nice people, answered my questions and generally helped me design my bait holding tank.  My 70 gallon tank is a miniature version of their multiple 5,000 gallon holding tanks.

I watched a video of how the oxygenator works and the amount of bubbles it produces, what I was getting looked exactly like what the video showed. 

The water I use in my bait bucket I take from the holding tank.  Then I top off the holding tank with water I keep standing in the 5 gallon buckets.

Who knows, maybe something in my water caused a chemical reaction.  Maybe too many bubbles.  Could have been anything I guess.  I was trying to perfect a system that for me is perfect, should have left good enough alone!!

I read some information about the oxygenators quite a while ago. As I understant it, it converts water to hydrogen and oxygen and the bubbles that we see are actually the hydrogen making it's way to the surface. The oxygen goes back into the water. Could it be that the bubbles that were on the surface were actually hydrogen that was trapped by some type of film on the water? Just a shot in the dark.

[ice dawg]

Possible I guess, I guess anything was possible.  All I know is I took the Oxygenator back and went back to my original system with no problems.  I suppose the main point that bothered me was the total lack of concern and help offered by the Oxygenator people.

I have had one for years that I use for ice fishing in a smaller bucket with about 4 dozen minnows. I have noticed that it doesn't work that well in the summer and an air pump works better at that time. I have never had to deal with their customer service department and it sounds like I should be glad about that. lol Sometime I wonder where they dredge some of these employees up from. At least the person you talked to could probably speak english unlike when you have computer problems.   

[who me lost?]

If you are on municipal water supply, phone them and see if your water is chlorinated or chloraminated, there is a big difference.

Water treated with chlorine process will dissipate residual many times faster by leaving out than water treated by the chloramination process, which typically adds ammonia to the water...which is also toxic to living things like bait, and people on dialysis machines!

In Ontario, water supply utilities are required to provide this information (and a lot of other water quality data) to the public, usually either via the internet or a publication at the local library, municipal office, etc.