IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
New Hampshire => Ice Fishing New Hampshire => Topic started by: whitewing on Feb 21, 2017, 12:11 PM
-
Don't know if others have seen this item, but in light of recent events it appears to have merit. Thoughts?
-
Definitely have thought about it for sure. They are around $500 I think. If I could afford one I would have it.
-
itll come in handy soon might need it for white water rafting based on the forecast
-
Has Fish and Game started carrying them on their sleds/atv's? Seems like something they should have, for both themselves and for rescue effort.
-
??? ::) I think they should be required for any ATV or Snow Machine on ice? At $450 each they would not only save lives but make machine salvage much easier. Wouldn't it be great if every machine owner would willingly attach one to machines on the ice? Be nice if was common practice rather than LAW?
Dick
-
Just a thought - much cheaper than a diver recovery of a machine - and way cheaper than a funeral!
-
Don't know if others have seen this item, but in light of recent events it appears to have merit. Thoughts?
flotation required here on machines not one death since
-
flotation required here on machines not one death since
Don't think NH needs more laws but your statement speaks VOLUMES!
-
Tim Moore has a video promoting the Nebulus as a winter safety item :tipup: :tipup:
Hope we can get him to discuss a mandate with NH F&G?
I've research such devices but I can't find anything similar?
Dick
-
??? If you want to see what it looks like and how it might save a life go to youtube Tom Gruenwald Nebulus flotation device?
Think of the lives that this would have saved on Winnipesaukee alone?? I don't think we need a new law. I think we need common sense?
Every machine should have something like this device ::)
Dick
-
??? If you want to see what it looks like and how it might save a life go to youtube Tom Gruenwald Nebulus flotation device?
Think of the lives that this would have saved on Winnipesaukee alone?? I don't think we need a new law. I think we need common sense?
Every machine should have something like this device ::)
Dick
My friend and I were just discussing something along these lines last night.
One thing that is concerning in making this a requirement by law is the price tag. Im not here to argue that its not worth every penny, or the value of life versus money... just that legislating that everyone who wants to ice fish with a sled or ATV spend $500 would definitely be met with resistance... ::)
I have a more pertinent question that Id like your, or other people's opinions on... how feasible is it to use in a crash/breakthrough situation being that its manually activated? I can see the value of manually activated PFDs, as they are intended to stay on a person when they go into the water/get thrown from a boat or PWC, etc but with this being attached to an ATV or sled.... you are cruising along at Xmph across a lake and break through... don't you most likely get thrown/separated from your machine? is needing to get back to your machine, access the thing, and yank the cord feasible? Im just asking... Ive never broken through on an ATV or sled and forgive the pun, don't know how that would "go down." It would seem that a PFD or floating suit for the person, and perhaps an automatically activated float for the machine that was activated at some depth/pressure (>5ft ?) would be more useful?
-
My friend and I were just discussing something along these lines last night.
One thing that is concerning in making this a requirement by law is the price tag. Im not here to argue that its not worth every penny, or the value of life versus money... just that legislating that everyone who wants to ice fish with a sled or ATV spend $500 would definitely be met with resistance... ::)
I have a more pertinent question that Id like your, or other people's opinions on... how feasible is it to use in a crash/breakthrough situation being that its manually activated? I can see the value of manually activated PFDs, as they are intended to stay on a person when they go into the water/get thrown from a boat or PWC, etc but with this being attached to an ATV or sled.... you are cruising along at Xmph across a lake and break through... don't you most likely get thrown/separated from your machine? is needing to get back to your machine, access the thing, and yank the cord feasible? Im just asking... Ive never broken through on an ATV or sled and forgive the pun, don't know how that would "go down." It would seem that a PFD or floating suit for the person, and perhaps an automatically activated float for the machine that was activated at some depth/pressure (>5ft ?) would be more useful?
Great analogy. With NHF&G struggling for funding might this impact license sales or would $ be made up through issuing fines to people who could not afford the device in the first place. I see a lot of directions this could go.
-
My friend and I were just discussing something along these lines last night.
One thing that is concerning in making this a requirement by law is the price tag. Im not here to argue that its not worth every penny, or the value of life versus money... just that legislating that everyone who wants to ice fish with a sled or ATV spend $500 would definitely be met with resistance... ::)
I have a more pertinent question that Id like your, or other people's opinions on... how feasible is it to use in a crash/breakthrough situation being that its manually activated? I can see the value of manually activated PFDs, as they are intended to stay on a person when they go into the water/get thrown from a boat or PWC, etc but with this being attached to an ATV or sled.... you are cruising along at Xmph across a lake and break through... don't you most likely get thrown/separated from your machine? is needing to get back to your machine, access the thing, and yank the cord feasible? Im just asking... Ive never broken through on an ATV or sled and forgive the pun, don't know how that would "go down." It would seem that a PFD or floating suit for the person, and perhaps an automatically activated float for the machine that was activated at some depth/pressure (>5ft ?) would be more useful?
My exact thoughts as well...I would think you'd need to drill yourself to act immediately to pull that handle OR perhaps an "umbilical strap" as they do in boats and PWCs that you attach to yourself so that if you become separated from the machine, the strap pulls the handle as you get thrown.
I have never experienced a fall through or near fall through but there must be many variables that cause each incident to differ.
I would NOT want to see a state mandated requirement to have one of these devices...that's like government sitting on your shoulder, replacing the need for your own COMMON SENSE in operating a machine safely.
Just my opinion, however.
-
In a state that doesn't mandate a motorcycle rider to wear a helmet (not taking a position, just stating a fact) it would seem somewhat hypocritical to mandate this for ice travel... though I suppose vessels on the water are required to carry (but not wear) appropriate PFD's. I am sure it is something that will be discussed after the winter we have had and the fact that other states are doing it.
I do agree that if people had them they would certainly become less aware/cautious... but I also like what these can do.
X2 on the automatic versus manual deployment... something should be modified there.
-
http://www.fox9.com/news/236971366-story
Pretty neat video and story.
-
??? :tipup: Let's keep the discussion going so that we can try to find a consensus well before next ice season. I will try to follow up with advice from NHF&G?
Dick
-
What's our state motto again???
From what I found more people will die this year falling out of bed (85 so far) then going through the ice (100ish per year). This is a cool product which very well could save lives in Nh each year, but come on this is common sense. We do not needs this legislated.
-
I'm all for promoting safety... but lets leave it at that, get the word out that such items are available should you choose to use them... The last thing the "Live Free or Die" state needs is more rules and regulations. Lets be real here, more people die everyday from stuffing down too many donuts, than all the folks who lost their lives through the ice this year. Again, not saying that they aren't tragedies but saddling tens of thousands of responsible, safety minded sportsman with regulation because a small few acted with haste or carelessness is not reasonable.
-
Another reason that this would probably never happen is because it would likely decrease sales on nonresident licenses that people buy just to fish the Meredith Rotary derby. A lot of out-of-staters would likely find it hard to justify the expense of this just to ice fish for one weekend a year.
-
??? ::) You have to pay for seat belts, air bags and ABS breaks in NH but many people won't use them? Cigarettes have warning messages but many people continue to puff away? wearing camo clothing during deer season just because NH doesn't mandate orange? I wish there was a practical way to teach people to do the safe thing rather than having to make a new law. But! Here in NH we have the right to Live Free and Die ::)
Dick
-
"Give me liberty, OR give me death."
"Live free, OR die."
Not, and die.
-
At some point there has to be a limit on legislating common sense or legislating to what amount people are mandated to protect themselves. On the other hand - failure to do so does have time, money and well-being implications on others. Its a tough topic... personally I couldn't see a law passing in NH.
I am still interested in the practical usefulness of this in an unexpected accident situation vs. controlled/planned rescue. If I go into a frozen lake with my ATV, the first thing I probably want to do if its water over my head is to get well away from my ATV, not have to stay with it or return to it to pull a ripcord. I can only imagine trying to fiddle with that and have the machine start to sink in 50fow and snag my bootlaces or bib suspenders and take me down with it.
It they had a unit that, as I stated, could sense submerge at a certain pressure level vs. depth that would automatically trigger, Id def. look into purchase, and use other means for personal floatation.
-
??? ::) You have to pay for seat belts, air bags and ABS breaks in NH but many people won't use them? Cigarettes have warning messages but many people continue to puff away? wearing camo clothing during deer season just because NH doesn't mandate orange? I wish there was a practical way to teach people to do the safe thing rather than having to make a new law. But! Here in NH we have the right to Live Free and Die ::)
Dick
Damned right!
No helmets, no seat belts and camo all the way in NH
And...Gov just passed the right to carry with no permit! This State is now moving in the right direction...take your liberal ideas and send them back to massachusetts where they belong.
Nothing personal Mr Baker!
-
??? ::) You have to pay for seat belts, air bags and ABS breaks in NH but many people won't use them? Cigarettes have warning messages but many people continue to puff away? wearing camo clothing during deer season just because NH doesn't mandate orange? I wish there was a practical way to teach people to do the safe thing rather than having to make a new law. But! Here in NH we have the right to Live Free and Die ::)
Dick
I'm curious what RSA is it in NH that you think requires your car to have seatbelts, airbags, and anti-lock brakes?
I've had my NH state motor vehicle inspection license for 23 years... not one of those things is required to pass a safety inspection or operate a motor vehicle in NH... People choose to purchase vehicles equipped with or without them just like they can choose to use added safety measures on an ohrv or not. Just like one can choose weather or not its a good idea to go wfo across a frozen lake when they don't know the condition of the ice under them... Sometimes people make poor choices and pay the price... Its human nature, and more regulations won't fix it...
-
??? One of the possible recommendations was (as with a boat throttle) you use a cord which connects to the activation handle and that cord is held by the driver? There has been a lot of discussion about this including the fact that few boat operators connect the throttle release to their vest. I'm guilty of that?? Just another thing to think about?
Dick
-
??? One of the possible recommendations was (as with a boat throttle) you use a cord which connects to the activation handle and that cord is held by the driver? There has been a lot of discussion about this including the fact that few boat operators connect the throttle release to their vest. I'm guilty of that?? Just another thing to think about?
Dick
Im not sure what force it would take to pull the discharge handle... I know the throttle kill switches pull out very easily.
That being said, how many times have you forgot to unclip and pulled out the kill switch key on your boat... I do it a few times a season... now, back to the nebulus... how would that work? :P :P :P
-
??? Watching the Nebulus videos it doesn't look to be much tension the pull the actuator cord? But that would have to be evaluated?
The kill switch on my outboard has been a problem because it takes so little effort to pull it?? While trolling for salmon I have pulled it several times when I swiveled my seat to point to a rigger release?? A little unnerving when I'm also fighting 3 foot waves??
Dick
-
??? Watching the Nebulus videos it doesn't look to be much tension the pull the actuator cord? But that would have to be evaluated?
The kill switch on my outboard has been a problem because it takes so little effort to pull it?? While trolling for salmon I have pulled it several times when I swiveled my seat to point to a rigger release?? A little unnerving when I'm also fighting 3 foot waves??
Dick
Luckily ice-trolling is not a very widespread endeavor.... takes to long to cut the slots in the ice...
-
I'm all for promoting safety... but lets leave it at that, get the word out that such items are available should you choose to use them... The last thing the "Live Free or Die" state needs is more rules and regulations. Lets be real here, more people die everyday from stuffing down too many donuts, than all the folks who lost their lives through the ice this year. Again, not saying that they aren't tragedies but saddling tens of thousands of responsible, safety minded sportsman with regulation because a small few acted with haste or carelessness is not reasonable.
Here here!! This is not the state to mandate people do anything. Stupid hurts, period.
-
I`ve seen a couple of wheelers go through the ice ( all ended well) and what I observed is that the quad goes upside down with the tires at the surface floating or suspending the quad. If the flotation device isn`t deployed immediately I don`t see it happening as it would now be +- 4 ft below the water surface. And no it wasn`t me going through but in both instances lack of any reasonable amount of common sense.
-
I`ve seen a couple of wheelers go through the ice ( all ended well) and what I observed is that the quad goes upside down with the tires at the surface floating or suspending the quad. If the flotation device isn`t deployed immediately I don`t see it happening as it would now be +- 4 ft below the water surface. And no it wasn`t me going through but in both instances lack of any reasonable amount of common sense.
??? So the wheels on a quad will keep it afloat?
Dick
-
??? So the wheels on a quad will keep it afloat?
Dick
I have seen this on a couple of occasions too...
-
What if you tied an empty soda bottle, or a buoy onto the top cord? This way if the wheeler goes under the device will set itself off, and float to the surface for the machines rider to use?
-
What if you tied an empty soda bottle, or a buoy onto the top cord? This way if the wheeler goes under the device will set itself off, and float to the surface for the machines rider to use?
:tipup: :tipup: :tipup: :tipup:
Excellent idea!
-
Im not sure what force it would take to pull the discharge handle... I know the throttle kill switches pull out very easily.
That being said, how many times have you forgot to unclip and pulled out the kill switch key on your boat... I do it a few times a season... now, back to the nebulus... how would that work? :P :P :P
That would suck to walk off your machine & forget you're tethered to the nebulus. You look back & see it deploy along with $450 as I'm sure these are good for one use only. Not sure of a simple solution to that but I'm sure with many minds thinking alike someone will come up with something.
As for personal flotation a PFD under your jacket is pretty simple.
-
That would suck to walk off your machine & forget you're tethered to the nebulus. You look back & see it deploy along with $450 as I'm sure these are good for one use only. Not sure of a simple solution to that but I'm sure with many minds thinking alike someone will come up with something.
I think zwiggles just did!! ;D
As for personal flotation a PFD under your jacket is pretty simple.
Well, the thing is, a PFD cant work if you are not wearing it. A standard PFD is pretty bulky to be wearing under a jacket, and I fear that an inflatable (which I use) would be hard to access and might not deploy properly under a jacket. With typical winter layers/jackets both are somewhat cumbersome to wear over as well... and I worry that with the weight of waterlogged clothing AND insulated bibs AND heavy jacket, would they be adequate. That being said I have used an inflatable in the past, but recently upgraded to floating (Striker) jacket and bibs. The jacket may come on and off but the bibs will be on 100% of the time.
-
??? What about something like a full Striker ice fishing suit?
Dick
-
Wonder if it will hold up a bob house
-
Wonder if it will hold up a bob house
I think its rated for 1000lb load...
-
Interesting, So it would hold some up for retrieval in a bad situation.
-
I`ve seen a couple of wheelers go through the ice ( all ended well) and what I observed is that the quad goes upside down with the tires at the surface floating or suspending the quad. If the flotation device isn`t deployed immediately I don`t see it happening as it would now be +- 4 ft below the water surface. And no it wasn`t me going through but in both instances lack of any reasonable amount of common sense.
A buddy went through the ice on his wheeler this winter. A Polaris 330 - it DID NOT float. Went to bottom (7 FOW) and was somewhat bouyant there. A harrowing experience for him. I don't have to think about my wheeler floating at all - track system will surely take it directly to the bottom.
I have looked at the Nebulus system - they make different packages - $$$$.
I read an article about inflatable PFDs (not necessarily a great idea while ice fishing). The guy that has this blog (http://lakeice.squarespace.com/candled-ice/) wrote a bit on that.
-
A buddy went through the ice on his wheeler this winter. A Polaris 330 - it DID NOT float. Went to bottom (7 FOW) and was somewhat bouyant there. A harrowing experience for him. I don't have to think about my wheeler floating at all - track system will surely take it directly to the bottom.
I have looked at the Nebulus system - they make different packages - $$$$.
I read an article about inflatable PFDs (not necessarily a great idea while ice fishing). The guy that has this blog (http://lakeice.squarespace.com/candled-ice/) wrote a bit on that.
The only thing I could find referencing inflatable PFDs was that there was a risk that a person could get stuck in a hole they fell through with the PFD causing enough force to restrict the ability to breath... i.e the hole was big enough to fall through but not large enough to allow full inflation of the PFD and extra room/space. It seems a very low probability to me but certainly not zero.
I would think the lives saved would be worth it... the same article mentioned that 50 some -odd people in a year alone would have been saved (potentially) if wearing a PFD. How many out of that number would have been trapped as noted by an inflatable?
In short, an inflatable is not ideal, but better than nothing IMO.
Not trying to argue. Thank you for the post and the very interesting blog site.
Paul
-
Yep - that's the reference. I agree. But there is nothing that's going to be 100%. Better chances of being done in by a car accident on the way to or from the ice.
Be careful and be safe - don't go on strange ice without some knowlege of the body of water, carry a spud and test the ice.
That blog has a ton of very good info.
-
I agree. Thanks for sharing
-
We carry Nebulus EFDs on our machines. It's money spent that I hope I never need to use. Nebulus toyed with making an auto inflate option, but the risk of accidental deployment is too great. I have deployed them for demos, they're not difficult to deploy. I'm not sure how big of a flotation (soda bottle, etc.) you would need to make it pop itself, but that doesn't seem like a bad idea. I keep mine so that the handle is within reach while I am riding. We tell all of our clients where and what it is at the beginning of each trip, to the point that it feels as much of a part of the machine as the handlebars or throttle.
I have spoken to NH F&G about them, but I don't know where they stand. I'm sure they would love to have them and it will likely come down to budget. I can't speak for them though.
Here is the link to my video. It doesn't give detailed info about the Nebulus, more a general safety video. https://www.facebook.com/TimMooreOutdoors/videos/1453152964717060/ (https://www.facebook.com/TimMooreOutdoors/videos/1453152964717060/)
There are a ton of videos about it on the Nebulus website https://nebulusflotation.com/pages/videos (https://nebulusflotation.com/pages/videos)
-
Nice video Tim
-
I'm buying one thanks to this blog
-
:tipup: great video Tim ;D Hope you never have to utilize your Nebulus :'(
Dick
-
I would think if your sled sank and you didn't get to it, you could snag the handle and raise your sled from the depths, right? Thinking I'm purchasing one for this next season.
-
I think zwiggles just did!! ;D
Well, the thing is, a PFD cant work if you are not wearing it. A standard PFD is pretty bulky to be wearing under a jacket, and I fear that an inflatable (which I use) would be hard to access and might not deploy properly under a jacket. With typical winter layers/jackets both are somewhat cumbersome to wear over as well... and I worry that with the weight of waterlogged clothing AND insulated bibs AND heavy jacket, would they be adequate. That being said I have used an inflatable in the past, but recently upgraded to floating (Striker) jacket and bibs. The jacket may come on and off but the bibs will be on 100% of the time.
Most manufacturers recommend not wearing an inflatable under your jacket. It can compress your chest and make it difficult or impoasible to breath if it goes off.
-
I have the Frabil iFloat suit, coast guard approved. great suit.
-
Damned right!
No helmets, no seat belts and camo all the way in NH
And...Gov just passed the right to carry with no permit! This State is now moving in the right direction...take your liberal ideas and send them back to massachusetts where they belong.
Nothing personal Mr Baker!
I am with you Mobizz, we dont need laws we need people with brains.
-
Great looking product... seems like common sense isn't very common today! Losing a spouse, child, or friend to drowning would make one realize the cost of the products is irrelevant in comparison to the loss. Course we all know it can't happen to you...