Author Topic: Flip over power box  (Read 150294 times)

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #60 on: Dec 13, 2013, 07:16 AM »
Thats kind of what I meant to ask. And what I was wondering is if you can use the same charger that vexliar uses. It has a green light when  fully charged. I was thinking a two battery set up. And that LED meter, wouldn't it always read 12volts???  Sorry I am confused on that one.

As the battery drains the voltage drops, good indicator on how fresh your batteries are and if they need a recharge.

Offline 3300

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #61 on: Dec 13, 2013, 09:04 AM »
Thats kind of what I meant to ask. And what I was wondering is if you can use the same charger that vexliar uses. It has a green light when  fully charged. I was thinking a two battery set up. And that LED meter, wouldn't it always read 12volts???  Sorry I am confused on that one.

multi-batteries on a single charger is the same as mutli-cell batteries. meaning the first cell/battery will get the most charge first and then the second and so. problem is the last one gets the least while the first one is getting pounded to try to get the last cell/battery filled. the battery can't say i have too much in one cell and too little in the rest, so it gets over charged sort of speaking. i used to build R/C car boat batteries and know some about this problem with batteries. also the matching of them. when add say 5 batteries in line and one is say a faster charging than say the slowest battery, you will over charge the one that charges first. so matching helps with this problem, but it will be very hard to match them your selves, because you would have to have a lot of them and write down how fast each one took it's charge and how fast it discharged and put together the ones that came the closet to each other in those times.

this happens with-in a single battery with multiple cells (each cell is 2 volts and there are 6 cells, so  you have to think 6 batteries in the case) like what we are using here, so the first cell gets the first of the charge and so on. so the first cell gets over charged to try to get the last cell charged. it's kind of like water flowing thru it to wash the battery out. it comes in one side and out the other side, so the in side will get clean first and the out side would be last, but instead it is energy.

if it was me making a multi-battery box, i would at least put a number on each one, say 1 thru 4. try to match them the best you can, meaning find out which one charges the fastest and then the slowest. put the slowest charging battery first in line and fastest at the end. the front of the line in a dc is the negative line. flows from negative to positive. so put the fastest charging battery at the positive end of the chain.

i guess the best way to try to match sla batteries with out a digital charger will be to drain each one down to 12 volts using say a spot light. use a digital multi meter (dmm) to reach the 12 volt mark and then put it on the charger for say 2 minutes or there abouts and but pick the number to be exact and then take your reading. write down what the voltage was. move on to the next and next. you'll see which one is fast and which one is slow at charging at least.

these types of batteries are durable and will work any way you choose to install them and will work for a long time.
all i am saying is if you want the very best from them for longevity and improved runs times. if you don't have or want to try to match them. then rotate them so one is not always in the front of the charge like bike racers that take turns who has the load and who has it the least load in the rear.

also, the chargers that come with sonars are in my opinion a starter charger only. the battery tender jr is the best 4 stage charger for the money and it is what i am using until i find a better one

the box's are looking great!


Offline hardwater diehard

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #62 on: Dec 13, 2013, 09:11 AM »
WOW awsome idea ...I bought an ammo box in early november ....for storage of two 2 foot LED lights and a battery ...thought about putting in the switch and some posts ....most of my thinking and planning are over... Thanks guys... great job.
Give a man a fish he eats for a day .Teach a man to ice fish he has an obsession for a lifetime

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #63 on: Dec 13, 2013, 09:12 AM »
Thank you for that insight, it makes perfect sense.
Can you burn out a battery by overcharging it every time?  Would that be a concern with these batteries?

Offline frozengator

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #64 on: Dec 13, 2013, 09:18 AM »
thank you 3300, I hate to ask so called dumb questions but when I don't know about something I get things rolling in my head that make me ask them. LOL  That makes since and if I went with two I would problably just rotate them. So I will probably look for that charger too.
Gator Nation

Offline 3300

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #65 on: Dec 13, 2013, 09:45 AM »
no question is dumb in my eyes. if your asking, your are smart enough to ask.
i ask questions some might think are dumb, but i am asking so that only means i don't know the answer and want to know it.

smart chargers, like the battery tender jr will not over charge a battery, but it can not see whats going on completely in the battery, but has a good understanding and is designed to do it well using 4 stages. it can not change the facts i mentioned nor does it know if you add more than one battery to it's circuit. i know batteries better than chargers even tho i used to build my chargers for RC cars ect, but those are different, because we try to cram in as much as possible in the least amount of time.
the sla battery does take a punishment unlike the gel cell batteries. if you hit those too hard one time, it's all done. you push the gel away from the plates and it can't return to touch them, so it's toast.

every time we charge a sla battery the first cell does basically over charge and thats what ruins them in time, but a long time .

i posted this because we have no real control over a single battery pack other than type of charger, but when i saw the ones using more than one battery, thats when i wanted to share what i know about them. matching any thing that uses more than one is always best, like say a spark plug. buy all the same and gap them all the same, replace them all the same.

another way to over come multi-battery charging is simple, but time consuming. charge each one, one at a time or have one charge for each battery. leave the load circuit open.


Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #66 on: Dec 15, 2013, 05:30 PM »
Got out yesterday and used the box.  It worked amazingly well and the 6" strip of LEDs is awesome!

 


Made a few changed though.  Used the U shaped ends to connect to the posts instead of the loop ends.
Pain in the rear taking wingnuts off and on.  Especially in the dark, which brings me to the second change.
When you disconnect at night you are plunged into darkness.   Not anymore!!!!


Its a lot brighter than what the picture shows.


Waiting on my amazon order to install a separate switch for those lights.  The journey continues...

Offline 3300

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ABNBHVGFASWq
« Reply #67 on: Dec 15, 2013, 05:40 PM »
awesome!
that person picture makes me feel like i took the wrong pill today. memories...

Offline J_Edwards

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #68 on: Dec 17, 2013, 09:58 PM »
Crappy job centering, oh well

Dimmer upgrade




Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #69 on: Dec 17, 2013, 10:35 PM »
Nice progress and the wire management sure cleaned it up!  How useful is the dimmer and have you tried out your setup on the ice?

Offline J_Edwards

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #70 on: Dec 17, 2013, 10:44 PM »
I have had the box out a few times.  No worries on battery life on day trips.

The dimmer is a little touchy.  The lights were so bright and the dimmer was so cheap, it was worth it I guess.

Offline tr7

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #71 on: Dec 17, 2013, 11:31 PM »
Let me first start by saying these power boxes are truly works of art. I can see a lot of time has gone into these. Nice work guys.

My question is are these boxes so elaborate and big because you are running multiple items at once off of them? The reason I ask is because I just bought the Clam Power Center to use for my LED bar in low light and charging my iPhone during the day. My flasher is run on its own battery so the only thing running on the battery I will put in the power center is are the lights and my phone charger. Will I be cutting myself short and running out of battery throughout the day?

Sorry for the ignorant question but I'm fairly new to modding my portable. Thanks in advance.

Offline J_Edwards

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #72 on: Dec 17, 2013, 11:55 PM »
They are fairly small at 7.4" (L) x 13.5" (W) x 5.1" (H)

I just wanted a clean method to run the lights in two different flip overs.  I also wanted to keep my phone and camera charged just in case. 

I've ran my lights a few hours and only noticed minimal voltage drops.  I haven't ran lights while charging anything.  I think I should be able to get a quick charge out of my phone or camera, I am not sure about both. 

I can easily add another battery with minor tweaking and I think I will soon.

I would assume, with out crunching numbers, you'll be fine with a single battery.  I don't know about you, but I don't run lights during the day, maybe a quick flip on to look around.  If you're talking all a nighter, I'd probably bring a spare.

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #73 on: Dec 18, 2013, 06:07 AM »
In my case I wanted to be able to keep my phone charged and have lights for as long as I'm on the lake also have a back up batter for the Marcum. 
I should have more than enough battery for the job on a weekend stay over.
There are a couple lakes that will drain my droid razor maxx in 4-5 hours because its constantly hunting for signal. 
I also suffer from a horrible disease call mod-itis.  Can never seem to leave well enough alone and have to constantly tinker.


The power box fits nicely in the Otter sled and I have plenty of room for it. 

Offline dml78

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #74 on: Dec 18, 2013, 07:56 AM »
I've charged my phone and ran a small 9" led light strip on the clam battery setup for 5-6 hours straight before. The lights never dimmed. I didn't check the voltage after but it did take about 2-3 hours to charge back up. This is a 12 9ah battery.

Offline 3300

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #75 on: Dec 18, 2013, 08:22 AM »
split loom cleaned it up tons and i know you are happy with it. looks nice and good job! you should ask a local bait store to put one up for consignment and see ho wit goes. i know you said your too busy, but do it at your leisure

charging phones/droids/ipods/ ect will be  a walk in the park for a 12 v battery because the the devices only use 5 v to charge. so no worries there, unless you run the battery too low at any time

heres another one for you tinkerers, add a short strip of led to the bottom of your sonar so when it's tilt out to view it, it will light up the ice and hole and be a fish attractant all at one time. i'm adding one today with water proof double sided tape. removing the crap tape from back of strips, running a wireless remote control to adjust brightness and off/on and using the sonar battery to power it. since the warranty is gone, i might crack it open to add a on/off potentiometer to the head unit instead in a front corner. i use an ice-55 bird
you would think (after figuring it out) that the manufactures should have the option built-in. another way would be to afix some up and inside the soft case so it shines down across the face of the sonar and down to the ice/hole so you are not blinded by the flashing optics of the sonar. i might work on that next too. will need abracket of sorts to tape to top of sonar to tape a strip to the bottom of it to extend over the face of the sonar or go up into the case some how

i was playing around with short (3) led strips direct to battery and they were burning out. not sure what thats all about yet as they are cut-able in groups of 3's. so test yours and let them run a while before you mount them to find the duds

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #76 on: Dec 18, 2013, 08:57 AM »
That's a great idea!  Post pictures of it in use please.
To bad I can't use any powered light source as an attractant in MN.  Probably why it hasn't been put in place by the manufacturers, legal reasons.


I'm trying to get a rough idea on how long a battery will last based on estimated draw.  Found some formulas that I think should get me close.  Please let me know if its off.

For me to run the full roll of LED's, which is 15' long.  Amazon tells me its 12v 24watt.

Watts is the fundamental unit of power and watt-hours is the energy stored. The key is to use the watts you know to calculate the amps at the battery voltage .

For example, say I want to run the 24 watt 12V light strip for 24 hours
Watt-hours = watts * hours = 24 watts * 24 hours = 576 watt hours

Since watts = amps * volts divide the watt hours by the voltage of the battery to get amp-hours of battery storage

Amp-hours (at 12 volts) = watt-hours / 12 volts = 576 / 12 = 48 amp-hours.
If you are using a different voltage battery the amp-hours will change by dividing it by the battery voltage you are using.

Since i'm running a 6' section of LEDs we will say its 12watts.   And the power box is 12v 36ah.  Ideally I should get 36 hours of continuous use of the LED's.
This math gets real easy since 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp
1amp * 24 hours - 24 amp hours

1amp * 36 hours - 36 amp hours









Offline 3300

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #77 on: Dec 18, 2013, 09:19 AM »
maybe fall into the gray area of your law if it's not called a fish attractant, but is in fact a  sonar light to see your controls of your sonar. would be up to the man if he thinks it is or isn't.

i am bad at math, but reading what you want to know about battery life is made easier by using a dimmer because it pulses (on/off) the battery to get the brightness you want. so thats the first step and if you use remote control like i am, it is even easier to turn them on/off/bright/dim and from a good distance so you don't have to open a box to crank a knob or get to a box to flip a switch.

then, because you are using slightly less than one quarter of the 15' = 24 watts reel, that takes your wattage down to say 5 watts at full brightness. you shouldn't need them on bright or if you do, not for long, but you will want ambient light to emit from it all of nite. so turn it down to say 25% to do that. then that means you are only using 25% of 5 watts so 1.25 watts for low light usage is good. now use your calculator to finish those specs if you want real run time hours

i won't be on any ice soon around here. maybe early january is what is shaping up for my area to be on "safe ice", so picture of it in use will have to wait from me. i could get you one of it on the carpet after it's done  or a youtube





Offline jfusco5598

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #78 on: Dec 18, 2013, 09:57 AM »
Got out yesterday and used the box.  It worked amazingly well and the 6" strip of LEDs is awesome!

 


Made a few changed though.  Used the U shaped ends to connect to the posts instead of the loop ends.
Pain in the rear taking wingnuts off and on.  Especially in the dark, which brings me to the second change.
When you disconnect at night you are plunged into darkness.   Not anymore!!!!


Its a lot brighter than what the picture shows.


Waiting on my amazon order to install a separate switch for those lights.  The journey continues...

How did the spreader bars work with the LED lights? Did they just clip over top of them?

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #79 on: Dec 18, 2013, 10:03 AM »
Two sided tape on the back of the LED's.  I just curved the placement of the light string in the areas that the spreader bars would be so they don't hit the lights.

Offline mattstark44

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #80 on: Dec 23, 2013, 09:22 AM »
Thanks henrychinaski for a absolute great idea!  I finished mine up this weekend.  On the top right hand side of the box is where my lights plug in.


Offline J_Edwards

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #81 on: Dec 23, 2013, 10:11 AM »
You're welcome!  Very nice, very clean!

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #82 on: Dec 23, 2013, 10:37 AM »
Still waiting on my parts from Amazon.  I love when it initially ships via FEDEX then gets transferred to UPS and now looks like its getting delivered via USPS.
Taken 10 days so far...

Offline getNjiggy

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #83 on: Dec 23, 2013, 02:02 PM »
For those of you that have already made a power box.  What specifically are you using to wire the LED strips to the power supply?  Also, how long will a full 16 foot section of LEDs run on a fully charged 12V vexilar battery?  I am debating if I need to trim my LED strip or put together a power box to run my lights instead of connecting them to my vexilar battery.  Thanks for the input!

Sorry if someone has answered similar questions recently.  I've been following this conversation but didn't go back through all 5 pages of comments to double check old posts.

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #84 on: Dec 23, 2013, 03:55 PM »
See quoted text.  Also mentioned on page 4 was to use a dimmer to extend the run time.


I'm trying to get a rough idea on how long a battery will last based on estimated draw.  Found some formulas that I think should get me close.  Please let me know if its off.

For me to run the full roll of LED's, which is 15' long.  Amazon tells me its 12v 24watt.

Watts is the fundamental unit of power and watt-hours is the energy stored. The key is to use the watts you know to calculate the amps at the battery voltage .

For example, say I want to run the 24 watt 12V light strip for 24 hours
Watt-hours = watts * hours = 24 watts * 24 hours = 576 watt hours

Since watts = amps * volts divide the watt hours by the voltage of the battery to get amp-hours of battery storage

Amp-hours (at 12 volts) = watt-hours / 12 volts = 576 / 12 = 48 amp-hours.
If you are using a different voltage battery the amp-hours will change by dividing it by the battery voltage you are using.

Since i'm running a 6' section of LEDs we will say its 12watts.   And the power box is 12v 36ah.  Ideally I should get 36 hours of continuous use of the LED's.
This math gets real easy since 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp
1amp * 24 hours - 24 amp hours

1amp * 36 hours - 36 amp hours

Offline LateSeason

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #85 on: Dec 23, 2013, 11:15 PM »
Done for now.  Who knows what I'll end up changing after I use it more.




Offline Kilbourn

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #86 on: Dec 23, 2013, 11:34 PM »
That's really cool LateSeason. How much does it weigh?

Offline ND222

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #87 on: Dec 23, 2013, 11:47 PM »
well done :clap:

Offline ULking

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #88 on: Dec 23, 2013, 11:48 PM »
I'm gonna have to build one soon.
A bad day of fishin is still better than a good day at work!!
 
 

Offline Corndog

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Re: Flip over power box
« Reply #89 on: Dec 25, 2013, 09:21 AM »
Done for now.  Who knows what I'll end up changing after I use it more.

Now THAT..is bad a$$!!! I like the layout and design..
 Lateseason you sure have skills. Do you use it with a shanty? I have a flip over, and for now, just have a RAVPower Luster Mini 3000mAh Lipstick Charger. Small and has a built in flashlight. Being I am unfortunately unable to have a shanty, I usually just do about 10 hrs on the ice. So having backup power for my cell is a good thing.
Thanks for the postings..
It is what it is....

 



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