IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Northern Pike => Topic started by: Bear32 on Jan 04, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Hey! What are you guys using for Pike leaders and how long off your main line? I saw some guys using tiger wire or something like that, it was a tieable wire leader. I cant seem to find any. Thanks!
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i use a long steel leader on mine with no problem
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i use a long steel leader on mine with no problem
Same thing. ;)
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Terminator Titanium steel leaders are unreal. It does not curl and it has no coating on it so it will not chafe. And even at 50lb it still has a thin diameter. Good stuff for metal!
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Anything will work, but the titanium ones are nice since they don't have much memory...
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I use 17lb fluorocarbon., and about 10 feet of it.
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I use 17lb fluorocarbon., and about 10 feet of it.
I use 20-30 pound wire, black. I would not reccomend using 17 pound flourocarbon, but to each there own.
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I use 39lbs fluro and i have not lost fish yet
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I use 20lb fluro and have not any problems
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Don't use Vanish Flouro. I've lost a couple Pike and I even had an 18" Brown trout snap it off
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malin boa no kink is good stuff thin and 100% bite proof, hell would freeze over before i would switch to fluorocarbon.
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I have been using Red PowerPro #40 with a #10dia. Works great, more flags then using steel leaders. :tipup:
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malin boa no kink is good stuff thin and 100% bite proof, hell would freeze over before i would switch to fluorocarbon.
I was about to order the 30lb test stuff...Which test do you suggest?
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i use 80 to 100lb. floro and landed 9 fish over 40"s last season with only 1 break-off! that fish cut clean thru just after the hookset. i had 75% more bites than other people fishig in the same waters and will never use wire again! good luck! :tipup:
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Home brewed quick strike rig
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malin boa no kink is good stuff thin and 100% bite proof, hell would freeze over before i would switch to fluorocarbon.
Couldn't have said it better myself MP!! Roger That!
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I use 30 lb spider wire stealth. I catch eyes on this too by accident sometimes.
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I use 20-30 pound wire, black. I would not reccomend using 17 pound flourocarbon, but to each there own.
I've never been bit off yet. Use your wire, and I'll use my mono/flouro, and we'll see who has more hook ups. Ilikepike my buddy has probably landed more pike big pike in a season than most have done in their life, and he uses 15lb maxima, which I just bought, and am switching to.
I guess the following pike that were caught on 15lb maxima, and 17lb vanish were mistakes, and not having any biteoffs was also a mistake. These fish range from 14-23.5lbs It doesn't matter what you use, but I can guarrenty that you will have 90% more hookups using mono or flouro compared to steel leaders. You just can't horse the fish in, you have to play them out. I may also add that yesterday ilikepike got a 39.5" 15+ lb northern on 8lb vanish.
(http://a233.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/41/l_641094001a5f05b1bb9011c23fda7d90.jpg)
(http://a595.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/30/l_ae80a483a25d37ea2ee2b058f324dd4a.jpg)
(http://a603.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/35/l_96f997919f29fbc88cfbb98bd4631242.jpg)
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I've never been bit off yet. Use your wire, and I'll use my mono/flouro, and we'll see who has more hook ups. Ilikepike my buddy has probably landed more pike big pike in a season than most have done in their life, and he uses 15lb maxima, which I just bought, and am switching to.
I guess the following pike that were caught on 15lb maxima, and 17lb vanish were mistakes, and not having any biteoffs was also a mistake. These fish range from 14-23.5lbs It doesn't matter what you use, but I can guarrenty that you will have 90% more hookups using mono or flouro compared to steel leaders. You just can't horse the fish in, you have to play them out. I may also add that yesterday ilikepike got a 39.5" 15+ lb northern on 8lb vanish.
So what your saying that all the pike ive caught this year, which might i add is alot are all mistakes cause any smart pike wouldnt hit a steel leader, they must have the brain capacity to know that a lil black/silver line above the bait must mean its bad but the two sharp points coming off of treble hooks that arent buried in your bait is ok, wow i never knew fish were so smart. Yeah right.
Look at these pictures.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/lethalconnection/072.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/lethalconnection/073.jpg)
Thats what a 20lb pike does to wire leaders after it hits it hard and takes it in deep and you fight it. Which by the way since when were u able to horse a fish in if you have a steel leader on? Im sorry but a hook is gunna stay in a fish's mouth just the same with flourocarbon or steel leader.
Also good for your buddy and his accomplishments. Thats not too bad of a fish you got, but if flourocarbon is soo good why dont u have more pics of big fish? This season alone ive seen at least 20 fish over 36"(and as big as....well have to wait near the end of the tourney to find that out ;)) put on the ice while using wire leaders. Only thing i can think of is the pike in New york have dentures for teeth, thats why u havent been bit off yet.
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you guys aren't dealing with enough big fish to prove anything, posting pictures of 2 fish doesn't really make me believe that 17 lb fluorocarbon is bite proof. Is fluorocarbon tougher than mono, yes. Is it 100% bite proof?? no. One trip to tobin lake and you guys would be scrambling to find some wire.
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you guys aren't dealing with enough big fish to prove anything, posting pictures of 2 fish doesn't really make me believe that 17 lb fluorocarbon is bite proof. Is fluorocarbon tougher than mono, yes. Is it 100% bite proof?? no. One trip to tobin lake and you guys would be scrambling to find some wire.
Ha ha, I was thinking the exact same thing. If you fish for pike in Saskatchewan with fluoro or mono, you will be willing to pay $5 a foot for wire by day 2. Last winter my buddy lost a pike on Tobin that chewed through his 40lb steel wire...on the other hand any other groups out that day would have a good laugh watching guys bring up bit off rigs every time a flag goes up...
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A friend went with 50# spider wire,I told him to fish with wire,,he said this is so tough no fish could bite it,well he learned the hard way. When dealing with big fish over 15lbs, 18 to 20 inch wire,quick strike rigs,treble size 8 or 6 depending on your bait size.Why 18 to 20 inch steel leader?My 41 in.pike had about 2 inches of leader sticking out of her mouth.
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I wanted to see if anybody has any thoughts on using both? My buddie has his tip ups set up with about2 3ft of floro and then about 12 or so inches of steel. I have mine set up with about 12-14 inches of tyger wire. I like how the wire ties and doesn't coil up but I definitely do not get as many strikes as he does. I am going to change my rig. Not sure if I just want to go with a longer section of Tyger wire or floro. Or a combination of them like my Friend. My line is the standard nylon braid in white, I have a black barrel swivel leading to the tyger wire. I have a split shot just above the swivel. Also my friend has black nylon on his tipups. Any suggestions are welcome. Please include recommended lenght of the leader etc.
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Those were just example pictures, there are plenty more like that. We have yet to have any problems being bit off, so I guess the fish here in ny must have dentures, regaurdless I'll stick to my maxima. Vanish was good also, but I like the maxima a bit better. But to each his own I suppose.
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17lb flourocarbon has definitely increased my flags. For bigger rigs I'll use 20 - 30 pound piano wire leaders. The flourocarbon is pretty resistent to abrasion but you need to check for nicks. Never lost a fish to a break off though.
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18lb. or 27lb. uncoated 7-strand steel leader........Speaks for itself.
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It was said once and I will say it again. MALIN BOA NO KINK. There is no reason to use steel leader. The Malin Titanium wire is stronger than steel, kink proof, stretches, can be tied and is thinner and more invisible than any flouro. The only reason you dont use it AirManCam is because you have never seen or tried it. I have converted so many people to this stuff its not funny. I wouldnt be surprised if MeadowPikeMan was one of them. Nothing performs like Malin wire for toothy critters, even the most line shy fish in the water. Nothing. Get some, if you dont like it, I will buy it from you.
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ok.....youve sold me on MBNK but please...tell us where to find it..ICETROLL...or MPikeman???
AS SEEN ON OPRAH ....or what?
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pretty much an urban legend ;D, availability on this stuff is pretty bad, but if you do some searching online should be able to round some up.
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i also use 17 lb flouro vanish and have never lost a fish, but let me also tell you I never use a gaff, if I can't gill the fish it's not ready, rule # 1 never horse the fishy
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Our ny pike must have dentures then :-)
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Honestly though guys. If you tried the Malin wire, I guarantee you would not go back to Flouro. The coffee color of the Malin wire makes it disappear so its fantastic for line shy fish. Plus, 30 lb wire is the diameter of 6lb test mono. Its ultra thin and since its titanium, it stretches. I am not talking about a little bit either. You can grab an 18 inch leader by both ends with pliers and stretch that leader 2 to 3 inches. Not to mention it has virtually no memory and is almost impossible to kink unlike other kinds of steel and wire leader. Plus, you can tie it. This is very important to me since I like to dress my leaders up with beads and sometimes spinner blades. I had my doubts when I first heard of the stuff too but after trying it, I wont ever fish with any other kind of leader. As a matter of fact. I have a buddy who fishes the pro walleye Circuit. He was having trouble in lakes with alot of Northerns in it hitting his crank baits. He asked me for a solution since every once in a while the pike were slamming the cranks so hard they were cutting the line. I suggested he use a short piece of Malin wire in front of his cranks to help prevent bite offs. I tied some up for him and told him to give them a try during pre-fishing. Not only did it work, but it did not reduce his catch on walleyes, nor did the wire interfere with the action of the crank. Amazing stuff is all I am saying and if your a Pike fisherman, you owe it to yourself to try it. Or not, it makes no difference to me. Maybe your a person who doesnt like technology.
Oh and by the way, I thought I would add that just because I use Titanium leader doesnt mean I horse the fish. I dont use a gaff either adkmtnman so I know full well when the fish is ready and when its not.
Here is the best source for Malin wire that I have found. There are some places that sell it cheaper, but those places require a $75 minimum order.
http://www.tackledirect.com/malinboanokink.html (http://www.tackledirect.com/malinboanokink.html)
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All right, you talked me into it IceTroll.
Ordered two roles of the 30 lbs. BOA.
Stuff looks pretty good.
Thanks for the info, I've seen your Peck pictures so I'm pretty sure your word is good!
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Had a pike bite through my 20lb stainless leader material yesterday...I ran out of titanium leaders so I thought I could use stainless once...bad idea. I lost a hawg...
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There pike not wahoo.
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I'm always looking for something I can tie knots in because I do a lot of flyrod fishing for pike. I've used a 7 strand wire from American Fishing Wire or something like that for a long time. It is supple enough to tie knots in and tough enough to take a beating. Never lost a fish, but I'm always looking for something better. Tried hard mono (maxima, etc.) in 40 lb. and it works as long as you check the line EVERY TIME. The slightest knick will cost you a fish eventually. Plus it sucks for ice fishing because it has such memory in the cold. The American Fishing Wire gets beat up over time and will eventually get kinked which reduces strength (plus it looks bad). So I'm going to give the Malin Boa stuff a try.
By the way - just found this site and already I'm getting some good tips. Thanks!
Bucky
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18lb. or 27lb. 7-strand with .033 sleeve ROCKS !! You got to try it.......
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tested a new theiry mono vs steel caught three. two on steel one on mono no breaks or cuts on mono (#6) biggest fish on steel. i say it doesnt matter as long as you dont force them through the hole i also used red hooks and normal hooks to compare the theory of red creates more strikes than silver and concluded they were equal over the past month or so. seeing how i found no diffrence in hook color or in leader makeup i would reccomend that you use what ever you are comfortable with. i would be interested to know if anyone else has also tested this theory and their results.
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Another 14lber today on 8lb mono, must be he had his dentures out today :tipup:
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we ended up with 5 over 35" today all on wire .............go figure
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Were you on Keeley?
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I use 40-60 seagaur flourocarbon, primarily 50. I have never broken off a fish and rarely even have nicks in my line. Sharp hooks save you. I use gamaktsus which are dangerously sharp, this makes it so all you have to do is lighlty set it and it will pierce the mouth.
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I use Gammy's on all my stuff and you are right they work awesome. When Striper fishing I switch out all my lure trebles with gammys and I noticed a huge difference in hook ups.
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I use a 4 ft section of regular 20lb Stren mono as a leader............been using 20 lb mono as a leader for more years than I care to admit............and have had maybe 3 bite off's in 40 years............fish up to 24 lbs...........
Been ice fishing almost 60 years and I'll stick with what has worked for me........
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do you guys just clip the hook on the leader snap swivel or do you do something else thanks :tipup: :tipup:
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airman,
http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=73167.0 (http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=73167.0)
once you lose a big one youll figure it out ;) (HOPEFULLY!)
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Another 14lber today on 8lb mono, must be he had his dentures out today :tipup:
Must have or your just one really lucky person.
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I've always used 20lb titanium leaders. Never a problem until I had one bite through it this past Sunday. Never saw the fish, but it felt good until it swam away with half the leader.
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Hello All !
I'm new to the forum and from farther south where I don't trust the ice enough to walk out on it so I'll need to wait until early March before I can fish again. Hopefully you wont hold that against me. I stumbled on this site while searching for some leader options for pike.
Great thread on this topic and a healthy debate. Personally I have used 30# floro with OK results. I did have a couple of bite offs that prompted me to try the knottable American Wire. Have caught pike and large mouth on both. When you're only catching a handful of fish a day it seems hard to draw a conclusion one way or another with so many variables that can affect the bite. Up to now I've been live or dead baiting and wanted to try some crank baits this spring. I was concerned about how a wire leader would affect the action.
After reading IceTroll's post I decided to give the Malin Titanium (30#) a try. What kind of knots would you recommend? Since it sounds like the knots don't cinch too tight so I'm temped to tie up a bunch of crank baits with a 12" leader and use a snap swivel to make it easy to switch baits?
thanks KenB
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i have had good results with a clinch knot using the 60# malin
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i have had good results with a clinch knot using the 60# malin
The knots wont be as pretty as tied mono are but they will be strong and they are low profile. They will work for crank bait leaders no problem. The snap swivel for quick change out will work too.
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I plan on placing an order for Malin BOA NO-KINK leader tomorrow. I'm a novice at ice fishing, and have a couple of questions in regard to knot's used on the leader. I plan on using a #4 treble or possibly two on the business end of the leader tied with a clinch knot, (this seems to be the preferred knot)? I would prefer to use a perfection knot instead of a barrel swivel to hook on my snap swivel on my main line. My other question is, do you think the perfection knot is a good replacement for the barrel swivel? My thought process is, (why add more hardware than necessary to a leader that has good knot capabilities). You only need a hook on one end and a loop on the other to hook to your swivel on your main line. Will this set up work?
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I see no reason why it wouldnt work cookr but I will tell you what I do. The Malin wire is not a good wire to attach split shot too so I tie mine up with a barrel swivel. Instead of tying a snap swivel on my main line, I just tie the main line to the barrel swivel the wire is connected to. Up above the barrel swivel, on the main line, I put a barrel or bullet weight that slides free. The weight cant slide any lower than the barrel swivel and is sufficient to keep the bait where you want it. If your using live minnows, the minnow will be able to swim up some due to there being no real weight close to the minnow but I think this is a plus rather than a negative. It gives the minnow the ability to struggle more which is a very good predator attractor. My leaders are usually no more than 20" in length and if I need to replace a leader, which is rare, I just cut the main line and tie another one on.
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Thank for the setup suggestions IceTroll. I ordered two rolls of the 30# test today. I forgot to ask Tackle Direct how long it took to ship (oh well at least it's on the way). Hopefully I will be seeing it early next. Learning more and more about this wonderful sport every day.
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Cookr,
Tackle Direct took 6 days to ship my order - 4 business days.
As for the perfection loop in lieu of a barrel swivel, I think you're good to go. I have always used perfection loops on my fly fishing leaders. I use hard mono for a leader and do a loop-to-loop connection to my bite tippets. The perfection loop is a 100% strength knot (it retains 100% of the test weight) and works well with wire, mono, floro, and braids. Great way to keep more hardware off your line.
Disclaimer - I haven't tried it with the Malin titanium yet.
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Thanks for the shipping and knot info Bucky. I've used the perfection knot on leaders for trout on mono and really like the knot durability. I'll have to give it a try on the Malin and see how it performs.
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Another 14lber tuesday on 15lb mono.
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Another 14lber tuesday on 15lb mono.
The thing is, when I'm picking a pike leader I'm thinking about a fish twice that size. I'm sure a 14lb pike wouldn't get through a good mono in the time it takes to bring it up on a tip up, but there's 5 reservoirs just within an hour of here where a 14lb pike is a small fish if you're fishing tip ups. When there are 25-30lb pike cruising, you look very silly when a bit off mono leader is all that comes through the hole.
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Another 14lber tuesday on 15lb mono.
all 14 pounders eh, exactly 14 pounds right on the button...hmmm.... ::)
14 pounds truly does not mean anything to me, I have seen 40 inch pike called 30 pounds before :roflmao:
once your hook into a BIG one, you will truly regret your decision against wire(like the guy in the post did)
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The first one was 14.2, and the second one wasn't quite an ounce shy of 14. I've seen atleast 5 20lb pike come through on mono, thats good enough for me. But I'm done bickering in this thread, you guys use what you want, and I'll use what I want.
Tight lines.
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i found even the 60# easy to tie ??? make sure you use pliers to pull and tighten the tag ends.
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I have never broke any of the 30lb Malin. That includes fish pushing 25 lbs. You must have weakened the wire when you tied it. It really is not that hard to tie if you start with a big enough tag end. Run it through the eye, fold it back, rap it around 4 times and back through the loop above the eye, pull it far enough to where it wont pop back through. Do the same on your barrel swivel end. Grab both tag ends with two pair of pliers and pull until it stretches. Thats it, good to go. I have never broke a Malin leader on litterally hundreds of fish.
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Troll, I looked through the posts and found I reported 30# Malin break back in 05'. I believe too that it was most likely a small crimp or pinch I made when I tied it. OK, so it happens very rarely BUT when you have 20# fish on a tip up for sometimes up to 12 hours things are going to happen. I still would never go back to plain old steel leader.
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we have landed close to 100 fish this since the middle of december have not had one failure yet with the malin leaders. including several from 15-20 lbs.
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Gamedog, I am telling you, if you are breaking that 30 lb stuff when you are pulling it tight, you are doing something wrong or you have a bad batch of wire. Its that simple. I have been using that stuff for more than 7 years and it does not break unless you wayyyyyyy overstretch it. When you tie the knot I described (I believe its called the clinch knot), your knot is not going to look pretty. Its not designed to pack down like when you tie mono or superbraid. If you are messing with the knot trying to pack it down or stretching the wire more than two or three times, the failures are your fault because you are weakening the wire. Its that or you got a bad batch. There are no other choices. Too many people have been VERY successful using that 30 lb wire.
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I am going to have to agree with Gamedog on this. I bought the 30 lb. I did not touch the line with pliers. I tied the clinch knot with 3-4 wraps. I pulled the line tight by pulling on the hook and the swivel only. I still had 3 out of 10 break on me :nono: :%$#!: :nono:.
I think it is funny how this godsend stuff that everybody swears by can't even stand up to being lightly used by pulling it by hand :unsure: :blink:. This is minor in comparison to a 20lb+ northern tugging at it :flex:. I would hate to know how many times a 20+ lb northern or a lake trout stretches it in the course of 5 minutes. I don't know if I want to risk losing a 20 pound fish because of a "bad batch" :blink:. I will be using the Malin this coming weekend. I will post my experience with it after I have been able to officially use it ;)2.
Sorry for the rant. ;D
But thats the whole point Whatpole. You dont tighten the wire by pulling on the hook and swivel. You tighten it by pulling on the tag ends. You dont put the pliers on the wire between the hook and swivel either. YOU PULL THE TAG ENDS. If you tie the stuff correctly it will hold. I realize when your dealing with something new there is a learning curve but the Malin wire is probably the best stuff out there for your application. I have been fishing Ft. Peck for 13 plus years and read my lips. I have never personally broke a Malin wire. Does it happen? sure it does? Is there anything on the planet that is 100% realiable? I doubt it. This stuff works if you tie it right. You can use whatever you want to use but for me, the proof is in the pudding. Sorry if I sound a little testy but the manufactorer tells you to tighten by pulling the tag ends, I have told you to tighten it by pulling on the tag ends and so has several others. Then you tie it wrong, break three leaders and your mad about.
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i'll had the same experience before i realized to do not pull on the hook, but on the tag ends, pulling on the hook or the leader it self creates a weak point where the knot slid. i have straightend out hooks with this stuff a couple times already so you should never have a problem with it breaking if it is tied properly.
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Just wanted to say thanks to all for a very interesting thread. I enjoy threads like this where the minute details are looked at. Sounds as if you guys belong to some of the surf boards. Those guys can go on and on with the pros and cons of various lines/leaders/knots. There is a nice one out there where they have actually performed break strength tests on various lines/leaders/knots. I know a 100#+ thresher shark in the surf or a 35#+ blue in the surf doesn't compare to a 25# pike, not to mention when they talk of casting 8nbait 200+yds but, there is some very interesting similarities in threads of this type there. Gotta luv'em :)
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well pike leaders i have tested steal leaders
they limit the movement on the minnow if you dony use a minnow its diffrent but any way i am a minnow guy ill jig for the bass and wait for my flag i fish in about 5 to about 8 ft of water around hear i try to get buddys so we have a better chance i use 3 to 4 feet of normal 12 to 16 pound test connect it to the icefishing line with a leader it works amazing i catch soo many more pike. just take your time with the fish that all i got 2 on sunday and it took about 5 min for them to tire out then and the came rite up to the hole
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I received my Malin BOA NO-KINK from the little brown truck today, (UPS). Very neat stuff. This leader is strange in the fact that when you tie a knot in the line it snaps back at you, (let me explain)! When you grab each end with pliers and pull the tag ends on the leader it snaps back at you. I told my wife about this and she laughed at me, (she said have another beer, so I did), can't turn the little lady down. My question is, how close to the knot do you clip the line off on the tag ends? The knot's are not tight like you would see on a mono leader. Earlier in the post I asked about the use of a perfection knot used in conjunction with my main line? Experimenting at the kitchen table with the the perfection knot, (looks as if it would work very good). I have not had a chance to use it in the field, (but time will tell). Thanks...
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Cookr,
My order of Malin arrived yesterday as well. I tied some clinch knots, perfection loops and some crimped loops. Tightened the knots as directed, trimmed tags ends very close and then tested them. With one loop anchored on a bench vise and a screwdriver shaft thru the other, I noted the following: Perfection loops and clinch knots created weak spots. The line always broke at the knot when either of those knots were used. The 30 lb wire was breaking around 20lbs when a perfection loop or clinch knot was used. The perfection loops were breaking before the clinch knots when one of each was used. The loops I made with crimp sleeves (single sleeve, running the wire thru 3 times) held better than knots with break point about equal to the 25lb Tiger Line I use for tipups.
I'm a little disappointed that the knots are not 100% strength like they would be on mono or floro. On the other hand, I'm not using this stuff for trophy pike and it is going to suit my needs just fine. I'll be using it as a bite tippet for walleye where pike are common enough to require bite tippets. If targeting pike I would certainly go with heavier stuff and may get a spool of the 60lb just to tie up a few pike leaders for me and my friends.
Try some knots and see what works for you. My test was very unscientific as my goal was to test their strength for walleye rigs. It passed. If I had a pack scale (marks the max load applied) I would use it to test each type of knot but I don't have one. Of course my knots may be different from yours, too. Good luck and let us know what you come up with.
Bucky
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I am curious what you were using to measure the break strength Bucky. I certainly appreciate your approach to this and appreciate the information. For your information I did a little test with mine. I took one of my quick strike rigs in the 30 lb and attached it to a 40 pound barbell weight. I easily lifted a 40 pound weight from the floor and held it there. I had no breakage. I did not go any higher in weight because I felt this was an adequate test to measure the break strength of my knots. Maybe when I have some more time I will see how much weight I can actually pick up without a break. I have no doubt that crimping would make it stronger but crimping kinda defeats the purpose of how I use the Malin. I figure picking up a 40 lb weight is a pretty good test of a fishes ability to put pressure on the line. I am leaving on Monday the 11th of February for a 15 day trip into big Pike waters and I plan on keeping a log book on all my tipups. I have both 30 lb and 40 lb Malin rigs tied up. I will keep a log of what fish I catch on what leader and the performance. Upon my return I will post my field results.
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Icetroll,
I was using a digital fish scale. I hooked on the leader and pulled while trying to get a reading as I kept increasing the pressure until it broke. Tough to do but I think I was in the ballpark. Keep in mind this was purely to satisfy my curiousity on the strength of the knots as they will apply to my fishing. I could have done a better job tying knots and been more consistent in my testing. A pack scale would have helped a lot to get an accurate reading of the break load. That said, I did discover that clinch knots and perfection loops are not 100% strength when used with the Malin ti wire. Those knots were designed for mono and are near 100% strength when tied correctly. This wire doesn't allow the knot to tighten as designed and obviously it concentrates load in a smaller area when weight is applied. Therefore, I would conclude that if you want 30lb knots, you'd better start with wire rated higher than 30.
I have no doubt the leaders I tested would land any pike at or under 25 pounds unless an ATV was used in the retrieve. Still, if I was targeting large pike I would have gone with something heavier than 30#. My goal is to avoid heavy wire while being able to land pike in the 10-15# range rather than let them rip my hooks off and disappear. So I'm optimistic about this stuff and will report results after my next trip a week from now.
Best of luck to you.
Bucky
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Update: A buddy was over this evening so we tied up several more leaders using the 30# Boa. Used perfection loops, clinch knots and crimp sleeves. Perfection loops are proving to be a disaster. Best test weight we could get was 16.5lb by my fish scale (steady pull, not jerking). Lowest was just over 12lb. Clinch knots broke between 15-20 lbs. Loops made with crimp sleeves were the only ones that broke the line away from the knots or crimp.
Here's the scary part - while tying up some of the knots my buddy starting breaking the line by hand. No pliers. I thought that was odd until he told me that he wasn't putting pressure on the wire. He was just twisting the line to make a clinch knot. A couple more times he broke the line while trying to tie a knot without even pulling on the line. Obviously we found a weak section of line that couldn't even stand up to finger pressure. I broke several more sections using a pliers at well under 10lbs pressure. Diameter looked similar but I'm not going to bother measuring/testing any more. I've seen enough.
I've got an unopened package of 30lb Malin Boa No-Kink that I'm willing to deal on.
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I like 20# Berkely Steelon leader material. Made up a leader and pulled on it steady with my digital fishfinder, Quit pulling at 40# and it still hadn't broke. Maybe it's not as fancy as Malin, but it hasn't failed me yet, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper. Just my $.02.
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While you fellas sit here and argue how its good and bad, my mono just pulled me up a 41" pike, so I'm all set :-) lol :tipup
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While you fellas sit here and argue how its good and bad, my mono just pulled me up a 41" pike, so I'm all set :-) lol :tipup
Sometimes you get lucky. I prefer not to bring a knife to a gun fight. ;)
I use fluoro leaders for bass and walleye in the summer and get bit off by pike routinely. I use Fluoro LEADER, not fishing line in the 17 to 20 lb range.
I caught a 39'' pike on 2lb mono a few years back. I thank Jesus for landing me that fish and use metal leaders for pike.
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Sometimes? Thats all I've been fishing with for the last 10 years, and my fishing buddies for the last 25 years? Theres a reason why we haven't converted. Yes, there is a good chance of getting bit off I suppose. Sure, we've tried steel leader, and caught fish, but we believe we get a lot more hookups on mono.
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Looked online for NY pike and this picture popped up :laugh:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/lethalconnection/pikedentures.jpg)
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I ordered the 20# Malin BOA no kink I do not care what the brake strength is I do not want to get bite offs I will be using crimp connectors witch I think is stronger than trying to tie a knot with any wire.
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use 10# mono pike cannot bite through it.
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BOA non kink I give up can not get a knot or a crimp to work.JMO
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I'm guessing that the 60# test would make a 25-30# leader after knots or crimps are applied. Of course that's assuming that there are no quality issued like I had where the wire could be snapped by hand without even pulling on it. Had I ordered the 60# stuff in the first place I would have been OK with it. But I'm not going to spend any more money on the stuff and reward their lack of quality control.
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I've caught alot of pike both through the ice and during other seasons and I've never had a fish break off while using fireline. Pretty simple to tie also.
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Give up sledder, we can't win we'll never be able to catch fish with out geting bit off on our non-wire leaders ;)
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40 lb. flouro all day. Granted I haven't tangled with and 20+, but I landed one around 16 lbs with about 3 inches of leader in its mouth fighting like a MOTHER and the line was barley nicked...luck? maybe, but I have landed ALOT of pike with the line in their mouths and I think a 10lber and a 25lber have the same chance at cutting the line, its all in how you play the fish.
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going through some leader threads and this one has a healthy debate. I've been using #30lb malin titanium for casting jerk baits and bait fishing for pike. I like the action on the jerk baits and when tying to a barrel swivel and braid it gives some shock affect. No problems with the cinch not but I'm not catching anything over 12lbs. Planning a trip to lake raindeer for some biggins. After reading some of the concerns I tested the strength by trying to lift 20lbs and it broke sometimes at the knot and once below the knot. Seems like somewhere between 15-20 which is good for now. I'm thinking I better beef up for my Canada trip. I really like that it has some stretch and good lure action and is super thin. Might try the #60 but not sure my lure action will be as nice.
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I use steel leaders 3ft. in length
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I'm still using my 15lb maxima mono.
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guys titanium leaders is total junk.since years(10 years or so) musky fisherman like me have switch from titanium to fluro.for obvious reason!
titanium will broke without any visual warning,very poor resinstance vs tortion,i have lost no of fish whit that stuff.i have even lost big cranks witout any fish on it.
i know that topic is a lil bit old but if i can save guys a hook and a pike life i'll be happy :)
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guys titanium leaders is total junk.since years(10 years or so) musky fisherman like me have switch from titanium to fluro.for obvious reason!
titanium will broke without any visual warning,very poor resinstance vs tortion,i have lost no of fish whit that stuff.i have even lost big cranks witout any fish on it.
i know that topic is a lil bit old but if i can save guys a hook and a pike life i'll be happy :)
You have your leader problem figured out. Now go work on your grammar and spelling. ;)
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I can tell by the avatars whatever you guys are using works. You have to go north of the great lakes for those gentleman.
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do you want to mean lac seul?
i have never heard of lac suel