Flathead battle.

[PerchAssault]

 There aren't many native fisheries left in Montana,

Oh...DO tell...

Look, I am NOT against native fish recovery...what I am against is the destruction of a viable, trophy fishery, that serves as a huge economic generator in our area, as an experiment...  SCIENCE says, the lake has warmed, and continues to warm, where it is now at a point that it won't support those native fish in the portions of the lake they traditionally occupied (Dr. Jack Stanford of the FLBS)

I am sorry but WAY too many people are drinking the Kook Aid on this issue.  Read the research, the ISRP findings, the 30 plus years of study, the research that the FLBS has done.  The lake will NEVER be what it used to be, not even close. Unless and until you do something about the Mysis, and the water temps, its all a boondoggle.  Put the money where something can be done...Have you followed what has been happening in Swan lake under the guise of saving native fish? Killing 400-500 more bull trout (mature, adult spawning bull trout) than were being killed before they started "saving them"...if gill nets are your answer to save native fish...I hope you like Pike Minnow...they're native and thats about all that could be left

[coldcreekchris]

once again staying out of the politics as best I can.....and in my 24 yrs on the res....I got some stories and opinions.....but I think most everyone agrees that gill netting would be an utterly horrible option.....money aside... the shrimp fiasco....mac days aint making a dent.....the outcome of gill netting is a slim chance to rectify the situation.....maybe its time to just let it be.....just let it be....

[coldcreekchris]

There aren't many native fisheries left in Montana,

Oh...DO tell...

Look, I am NOT against native fish recovery...what I am against is the destruction of a viable, trophy fishery, that serves as a huge economic generator in our area, as an experiment...  SCIENCE says, the lake has warmed, and continues to warm, where it is now at a point that it won't support those native fish in the portions of the lake they traditionally occupied (Dr. Jack Stanford of the FLBS)

I am sorry but WAY too many people are drinking the Kook Aid on this issue.  Read the research, the ISRP findings, the 30 plus years of study, the research that the FLBS has done.  The lake will NEVER be what it used to be, not even close. Unless and until you do something about the Mysis, and the water temps, its all a boondoggle.  Put the money where something can be done...Have you followed what has been happening in Swan lake under the guise of saving native fish? Killing 400-500 more bull trout (mature, adult spawning bull trout) than were being killed before they started "saving them"...if gill nets are your answer to save native fish...I hope you like Pike Minnow...they're native and thats about all that could be left

never give up pa....your logic is sound....there is no way that the lakers will ever leave....even if they cut it back by 75%..which I doubt....the harm to the native fish will be astronomical....and even if the cut the population by 75% ...we will have the same scenario 3..5.. 10.. yrs down the road....

[missoulafish]

Wow...let me get some popcorn started...

[SLIMMETT]

It is unfortunate that a business sponsor of this board would accuse someone of drinking the "kook aid" for simply expressing their opinion on a particular issue.

[Quantoson]

Don't get your feelers hurt SLIMMETT

He is Like a Boss

[lundin-loading]

It is unfortunate that a business sponsor of this board would accuse someone of drinking the "kook aid" for simply expressing their opinion on a particular issue.

You've got your opinion, mike has facts...do some research

[Quantoson]

SLIMMETT,

Just do about 3 weeks worth of reading on the facts and you will discover that this is the same lie the tribe (Barry) has been passing for years.  Go to https://sites.google.com/site/gillnettingflatheadlakethewest/home and do some reading.  It is the real documents.

No one person is being rude about the issue, it's just frustrating for those of us who have studied the documents.... the truth does not get disclosed.  The talking points used by the tribes, newspaper and media are down right lies.  This is not the only lake they are attempting to eradicate non-native species.  It is all over the Northwest regions.  Every stream, pond and lake.  Educate yourself and then if you still feel the only recourse is to eradicate every non-native species, stay your course, pack your family and move because not to many of us are native to this area ancestral.

[Golden Trout]

I find it very hard to believe that "lake warming" has any affect on this issue. 
Does anyone have a link I can read about this? 

Also just to pick away at some ideas on your brains today, to those of you that say no to gill netting, what other methods do you believe would be good instead of gill nets?  I am not saying this is a good or bad idea, I am just wondering what some other ideas may possibly be.   

[Quantoson]

Also just to pick away at some ideas on your brains today, to those of you that say no to gill netting, what other methods do you believe would be good instead of gill nets?  I am not saying this is a good or bad idea, I am just wondering what some other ideas may possibly be.   

How bout just leave the fish alone and let evolution and nature take care it while we enjoy the best fishing West of the Mississippi.   

[Strippnthedream]

How bout just leave the fish alone and let evolution and nature take care it while we enjoy the best fishing West of the Mississippi.

Indeed!

[PerchAssault]

It is unfortunate that a business sponsor of this board would accuse someone of drinking the "kook aid" for simply expressing their opinion on a particular issue.

It is also unfortunate that my very generic comment, aimed at the hundreds of people who have blindly follow popular opinion on this, could somehow seem to be directed at any one specific person, especially anyone so new to this board that has no knowledge of my "body of work" on this forum as well as others.

Slimmett, welcome to the forum, but please don't jump to conclusions so quickly.

[PerchAssault]

I find it very hard to believe that "lake warming" has any affect on this issue. 
Does anyone have a link I can read about this? 

Also just to pick away at some ideas on your brains today, to those of you that say no to gill netting, what other methods do you believe would be good instead of gill nets?  I am not saying this is a good or bad idea, I am just wondering what some other ideas may possibly be.   

It was a recent story paper done by Dr Jack Stanford of the FLBS regarding concerns over possible actions on Flathead Lake...sorry I don't have the link. Some basic research on here or on the issue of Flathead lake will find more info thatn you could ever imagine...some of it even factual.

Please explain why you would say lake warming has nothing to do with this issue? Water temperature is one of the most critical components of fish staying anywhere...Especially cold water species such as trout...?

[PerchAssault]

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/opinion/article_0492ddce-7a7b-11e3-b2b6-0019bb2963f4.html

Coincidentally...poste d in todays Interlake...

[Cornbread]

This paper covered why the lake will never go back to the way it was pre-shrimp:

"Ellis, B. K., J. A. Stanford, D. Goodman, C. P. Stafford, D. L. Gustafson, D. A. Beauchamp, D. W. Chess, J. A. Craft, M. A. Deleray and B. S. Hansen.  2011. Long-term effects of a trophic cascade in a large lake ecosystem.  Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 108(3):1070-1075."

That one may have had the water temp stuff in it as well but I can't remember. I have read so many papers now on that lake I forget which ones have which info.

[missoulafish]

Not an April Fool, netting is supposed to commence 4.1.2014.....

[Cornbread]

Not an April Fool, netting is supposed to commence 4.1.2014.....

That stinks. Well I won't be fishing Flathead anymore most likely.

[Quantoson]

As long as the negative propaganda about the Lake Trout keeps up, the truth will be hard to hear.
Here's a lying quote from this site by Chris Schustrom and Bruce Farling
 http://www.eatmorebrooktrout.com/2012/03/guest-post-flathead-lake-bull-trout-and.html

Flathead Lake once hosted one of Montana’s most popular and robust sport fisheries, featuring millions of kokanee salmon, cutthroats, yellow perch, bull trout and lake trout. Today, the salmon are gone and cutthroat and bull trout numbers have been reduced dramatically. Also gone are many fishermen. Perch and lake whitefish remain, but their availability fluctuates year to year, depending on water levels and predation. Well-meaning state managers who introduced Mysis shrimp into the Flathead system in the 1980s triggered the decline in the lake’s fishery and fishing opportunities. The shrimp provide an ample food source for young lake trout, improving their survival rates. Once these lake trout get larger they feed on other fish. In the nineties the exploding lake trout population consumed about 10 million kokanee in Flathead Lake, collapsing perhaps the most popular lake fishery in the state. Angling numbers then dropped by about 50 percent. When the kokanee disappeared, so did hundreds of bald eagles that gathered each fall to gorge on spawning salmon at McDonald Creek in Glacier National Park. Thousands of tourists then stopped coming to view the eagles. Tourism dollars dropped.

[fishin7]

As long as the negative propaganda about the Lake Trout keeps up, the truth will be hard to hear.
Here's a lying quote from this site by Chris Schustrom and Bruce Farling
 http://www.eatmorebrooktrout.com/2012/03/guest-post-flathead-lake-bull-trout-and.html

Flathead Lake once hosted one of Montana’s most popular and robust sport fisheries, featuring millions of kokanee salmon, cutthroats, yellow perch, bull trout and lake trout. Today, the salmon are gone and cutthroat and bull trout numbers have been reduced dramatically. Also gone are many fishermen. Perch and lake whitefish remain, but their availability fluctuates year to year, depending on water levels and predation. Well-meaning state managers who introduced Mysis shrimp into the Flathead system in the 1980s triggered the decline in the lake’s fishery and fishing opportunities. The shrimp provide an ample food source for young lake trout, improving their survival rates. Once these lake trout get larger they feed on other fish. In the nineties the exploding lake trout population consumed about 10 million kokanee in Flathead Lake, collapsing perhaps the most popular lake fishery in the state. Angling numbers then dropped by about 50 percent. When the kokanee disappeared, so did hundreds of bald eagles that gathered each fall to gorge on spawning salmon at McDonald Creek in Glacier National Park. Thousands of tourists then stopped coming to view the eagles. Tourism dollars dropped.

They always seem to forget that their beloved kokanee were non native as well.

[PerchAssault]

Well, that conveniently left out the info from the EIS which talks about the sub species of lake trout that have developed in the lake, the "dwarves", which stay on the shrimp, only grow so large and never become piscatorial.  By the way, the tribe is saying they can net 10,000 fish from Flathead with 0...as in ZERO,  bycatch of bull trout because they will net a mile off shore in deeper water.  Of course, NO bull trout reside out there...so they will kill the fish in the net that never become fish eaters...sound logic indeed...

We will wait and see what the "take permit", that USFWS must issue the tribe before netting begins, allows them to kill as acceptable by catch.  My bet is, it's slightly more than zero...

[The Rezerend]

Talk to local ranchers and they'll tell you that the bald eagles, golden eagles, or other falcons haven't left the area.

[Quantoson]

Not an April Fool, netting is supposed to commence 4.1.2014.....

That may affect the Spring Mac Days fishing.  Maybe troll along side of the netting boat and pull the limit from the nets.  Bummer if the netting boat catches all the tagged fish.

[PerchAssault]

Once those nets hits the water, I don't see mack days continuing.  Why would they? Pay for tagged fish, and thousands of dollars twice a year when the have the killing machines available? Everyone who supported them thinking that by doing so Mack Days would continue are in for a big surprise. Mack Days was the only tool they HAD for 12 years...the game has changed.

[missoulafish]

Exactly.

[Quantoson]

The flyer Cindy Bras emailed me states it starts March 14 this year.  I wonder if the guys on the netting boat will be in the weigh on those days.  I don't even own a seine net... What an advantage they're gonna have!

"Mack Days Anglers:
The 2014 Spring Mack Days Fishing Event begins on March 14th.  Up to $150,000 in Cash and Prizes will be awarded at the end of the thirty four day event.  Fish Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays until May 9th and then it is 10 straight days of fishing until May 18th. Entries are taken up until the last day of the event.  Over 4,000 lake trout have been tagged with values from $100-$10,000. A $5,000 tagged lake trout was turned in last fall during the 2013 Mack Days Fall Event."


 

[PerchAssault]

Yes, they are advertising it is still on, but in my opinion...it ain't around much longer. Just my own hunch.  They are saying they need the anglers to help them tag more control fish but...who the heck knows really, it's all a wait (weight?) and see game...

I know I plan to be on the water April 1st observing as closely as I can exactly what goes on. If I have lines in the water, I hope they are aware of the 75' law...

[BackCountry Kyle]

Yes, they are advertising it is still on, but in my opinion...it ain't around much longer. Just my own hunch.  They are saying they need the anglers to help them tag more control fish but...who the heck knows really, it's all a wait (weight?) and see game...

I know I plan to be on the water April 1st observing as closely as I can exactly what goes on. If I have lines in the water, I hope they are aware of the 75' law...

I hope that everyone who can will do the same

[Strippnthedream]

Quote from: PerchAssault on Mar 02, 2014, 08:52 PM
Yes, they are advertising it is still on, but in my opinion...it ain't around much longer. Just my own hunch.  They are saying they need the anglers to help them tag more control fish but...who the heck knows really, it's all a wait (weight?) and see game...

I know I plan to be on the water April 1st observing as closely as I can exactly what goes on. If I have lines in the water, I hope they are aware of the 75' law...



I hope that everyone who can will do the same

That's a great idea get as many boats n anglers in the water. I know it's a big lake if u have people speckling that lake n try n find aproximently where there gonna start netting n just post up a bunch of boats all around. If they have 2 stay 75' away gonna be kinda hard 2 bob and wieve through boat n anglers.
Pull a whale wars on them n just stay right next 2 the netting boats.

[Quantoson]

Jokingly would be funny to see but too much of a Green Peace Liberal style action.  If they have the permit, I rather they not be harassed.  The guys on the netting boat are just making a living and no need to put yourself or them in any danger. 

[Desperado]

if not then, there, and in that manner; when, where, and how do you ever make a stand ?