Let’s make Jawjackers legal

[russelln114]

Hello guys. Over the last year there has been many discussions on whether the jaw Jacker is a legal fishing device on the ice. We can talk about the legality of the situation till we’re blue in the face however from the fish commission‘s perspective the jawjacker is not listed in the book as a legal means to ice fish so for now According to them it is an illegal fishing device.I would like to now shift my attention away from whether it is in the book or not to why it should now become legal and I hope others will follow suit. I first came in contact with Matt the founder of Jawjacker eight years ago. I spoke to him about his device telling him many tips and tricks that I have learned using it. I told him that I was thoroughly impressed that I didn’t have to worry about So much about gut hooking fish Because I told him  throughout many years of using tip ups I would miss flags going up causing fish being hooked for several minutes before I realized the flag was up. I  I explained to him that The jaw Jacker was much different because when it tripped instead of a flag going up I could hear a distinct rattle. That point alone has caught the attention of the commissioners at the Pennsylvania Fish commission. At their commissioners meeting on 1/20/21 the issue of the Jaw Jacker was discussed and a draft for legalization is being planned. I suggest that we work with them in seeing this through. They need public input as to why the jaw Jacker should be legalized. I for one do not believe that the Jaw Jacker Will not harm our fishing industry. It is a fishing tool just like downrigger’s, and electronics are. There has been a couple regulations changed in the last few years here in PA  that helps fisherman in catching more fish. One being the Number of rods used in open water from 2 to 3 rods and the hook rule being changed to unlimited hooks on a Single line. These two laws were not changed so that we could keep more fish. They were changed so we could better our chances at catching a fish. The same thing holds true with the jaw Jacker. I’ve heard some people say that using a jaw Jacker is cheating well catching fish is not cheating. Cheating is when you catch and keep over your limit, littering, snagging salmon (here in PA) or fishing out of season. Matt from Jaw Jacker is actively involved in helping us see this through. After speaking to him on the phone today he sent me an email. The letter explains his point of views which I believe are excellent. His letter is meant to educate us as well as the Pennsylvania Fish commission about this wonderful fishing device. While out fishing I will be talking to every warden I see on how we can all work together in passing this law. I will be also be contacting our fish commissioners throughout the state in the hopes that we can all work together. I suggest all others do the same. You can find his letter here.


https://www.facebook.com/Russelln114/posts/414039379709596

[ddgst7]

I don't personally use them, but I do not think they are handing fines out, guy I know who uses them just said the warden gave him a hard time.  If there is grey area it should definitely be addressed though.  Probably all depends on the warden.

[russelln114]

I don't personally use them, but I do not think they are handing fines out, guy I know who uses them just said the warden gave him a hard time.  If there is grey area it should definitely be addressed though.  Probably all depends on the warden.

I understand what you’re saying. The commissioners even stressed education over fines however their educational approach is to inform people that they are not legal yet and that they’re working on it. They are not going to educate you and continue to let you use them at this point. Like I said before we are trying to work with them to hopefully have them legal by April.

[RuttNutt]

Thanks for doing this! I contacted the PF&BC several times last year about this issue but didn;t have the time or social media expertise to do anything about it. Glad to see someone step up and also was SHOCKED to see it was even brought up at the meeting! 

I'll do what I can to get the word out and try to move this forward!

[jaeger80]

A warden spoke with me about mine a few weeks ago.  He said one of the best ways to voice our desire to legalize the hook setting type devices was to send a message via The Fishing Hole on the PFBC website and explain your concerns and justification for wanting to use this fishing tool.

[Captn66]

If you don't express your opinion on making them legal - they won't make them legal.  I suggest contacting the PFBC and respectfully expressing your support for Jawjackers and other like devices. 

[jaeger80]

https://pfbc.pa.gov/forms/contactUs.htm

I submitted my justification to them.  I also strongly urge everyone (not just Jawjacker users) to take a moment and write them a comment to voice the need for legalization of these devices.  You never know, somewhere down the road you may also want to use them.  Also, the way in which PFBC handled putting this information out was very poor and relied upon vague generic language to condemn these devices and target fishermen who used them.  I don't blame the wardens/officers for doing their jobs as they are instructed by their superiors, but the powers that be need to be called out on the way this was handled in my opinion.  What about the next thing that comes out?  What if after a bunch of people buy panoptics or side scan that those devices are declared cheating and thus not allowed due to some vague language in some hidden bylaw. 

"Oh we put out a Twitter post that says XYZ is illegal even though the handbook for this year came out a month ago and didnt even mention it.  Didnt you see it?"  FINED.

That's not the way to handle things in my opinion. 

[Captn66]

Sent my comment of support.  If they're anything like the PGC - I'm sure i'll get the same automated response thanking me submitting a comment and then nothing further.

[jaeger80]

Exactly what I was thinking Cap.

[Captn66]

I'm not in favor of making them legal.

Why?

[russelln114]

https://pfbc.pa.gov/forms/contactUs.htm

I submitted my justification to them.  I also strongly urge everyone (not just Jawjacker users) to take a moment and write them a comment to voice the need for legalization of these devices.  You never know, somewhere down the road you may also want to use them.  Also, the way in which PFBC handled putting this information out was very poor and relied upon vague generic language to condemn these devices and target fishermen who used them.  I don't blame the wardens/officers for doing their jobs as they are instructed by their superiors, but the powers that be need to be called out on the way this was handled in my opinion.  What about the next thing that comes out?  What if after a bunch of people buy panoptics or side scan that those devices are declared cheating and thus not allowed due to some vague language in some hidden bylaw. 

"Oh we put out a Twitter post that says XYZ is illegal even though the handbook for this year came out a month ago and didnt even mention it.  Didnt you see it?"  FINED.

That's not the way to handle things in my opinion.

Thank you. Let’s keep this circulating not only on here but on Social media platforms also.

[russelln114]

Thanks for doing this! I contacted the PF&BC several times last year about this issue but didn;t have the time or social media expertise to do anything about it. Glad to see someone step up and also was SHOCKED to see it was even brought up at the meeting! 

I'll do what I can to get the word out and try to move this forward!

Matt and I are working on this but we need everyone’s help.

[RepGerg]

(This is my testimony)

Dear Honorable Commissioners,
Around 1995 In-Fishermen Magazine published an article about using “Slammers” for Great Lakes Salmon and Steelhead these newly invented devices were effective and used to curtail swallowing of bait and fatality harming fish. I was 25 years old then and an avid ice fisherman, my buddy & I built 4 of our own Slammers in 1996 and have been using them for many many years, they are effective and stop many fish from being gut hooked. Over the years we’ve been complimented by Fish Commission Officers for such an unusual but effective device. I’m very disappointed that the Commission has chooses to define these “Whip Up” type devices as illegal and the methodology of its justification is suspect at best. Ice fishing is a great and unique sport the use of devices and direct control of this equipment is subjective to the Commission rules and frankly is unfair to people who are older or have disabilities, “Whip Up” devices level the playing field by assisting in a hook set thereby giving fishermen more flexibility and an ability to spread out, additionally they reduce gut hooked fish and finally they are a fun alternative to use. I haven’t used my Slammers this year but having that option should always be my choice not a Commission decision that was vaguely adopted from a definition that was never meant to address ice fishing.
We are all fishermen these devices aren’t overly problematic let’s welcome new/old ideas and focus on the resource and recruitment for our future.

Tight Lines
Marc Gergely

[ducksnbucks36]

A face book post stating something is acceptable or not is not the law and doesn’t deem something legal or illegal. No where in the codes does it mention anything that indicates that a jaw jacker would be illegal.  I’ve submitted justification to them to make it out at least get clarification in the jaws deeming it legal or not

[russelln114]

A face book post stating something is acceptable or not is not the law and doesn’t deem something legal or illegal. No where in the codes does it mention anything that indicates that a jaw jacker would be illegal.  I’ve submitted justification to them to make it out at least get clarification in the jaws deeming it legal or not

I understand your point however they have said that if it is not listed in the book then it is illegal. Like I said before we can argue til we’re blue in the face or we can work with them to make them legal. That is why they are going to be lenient on a case by case basis about handing out fines until this is resolved. I don’t think at this point we should be challenging whether it’s in the book or not in the book Because of the fact that they are being so lenient and willing to take this up.

[dkfry]

I'll contact them.

What law DOES NOT say is just as important as what law DOES say. In court some pamphlet or opinion of an officer doesn't mean so much in comparison.

[Captn66]

I understand your point however they have said that if it is not listed in the book then it is illegal. Like I said before we can argue til we’re blue in the face or we can work with them to make them legal. That is why they are going to be lenient on a case by case basis about handing out fines until this is resolved. I don’t think at this point we should be challenging whether it’s in the book or not in the book Because of the fact that they are being so lenient and willing to take this up.

I agree - lets work through the system that we have and try and get the (assinine) rule changed. 

[beerduck]

dont own any and probably never will i just jig and use tip ups have no need for them and i still think its just stupid not to be able to use.  was on a local lake nailed giant perch and other fish lots of them had to use hemostats for every fish or break off the line and lose the hook to not kill everything this would be one rule that the fish cops should turn there head on until it becomes legal

[ducksnbucks36]

I understand your point however they have said that if it is not listed in the book then it is illegal. Like I said before we can argue til we’re blue in the face or we can work with them to make them legal. That is why they are going to be lenient on a case by case basis about handing out fines until this is resolved. I don’t think at this point we should be challenging whether it’s in the book or not in the book Because of the fact that they are being so lenient and willing to take this up.

Not disagreeing by any means and like I said I’ve already contacted them as many have but as I said a Facebook post doesn’t deem something illegal or legal the codes do  in which they don’t violate the codes as written. 

PA has some of the most ridiculous grey area laws I’ve ever seen just read the trapping regulations. 

[Captn66]

Not disagreeing by any means and like I said I’ve already contacted them as many have but as I said a Facebook post doesn’t deem something illegal or legal the codes do  in which they don’t violate the codes as written. 

PA has some of the most ridiculous grey area laws I’ve ever seen just read the trapping regulations.

I agree with that for sure ... tell me what sense it makes that you can use a flintlock rifle in the SRA areas, but not a flintlock pistol? PGC IMO makes even less sense than the PFBC with some of their rules. 

[jaeger80]

Oh yeah...PGC is the absolute worst.

[JMZ]

Can I get a document that says that the PFBC is considering making automatic hooking devices legal in PA. Or is there a document on the books saying that these devices are illegal.
I would like to have this document to show it to a fish warden if he saying I am getting a citation. Then I would have to go to the FC office and explain my case.