Gulf of Maine oil drilling protest

[Anomaly]

Quite a gimmick... makes you feel all tingly inside but its practicality is useless! I'm sure there are other energy sources that could change the world, but  would mean independence from providers. Resulting in mass unemployment.

Yeah, "independence from providers” is what scares them to death. It would actually mean many more jobs, including in manufacturing and infrastructure. The issue, The Real ISSUE, is the money stream becomes diverse, in a real capitistalist  way.  Just solar installations would be HUGE.! Under water turbines like that wouldn’t kill fish either!

[woodchip]

on one of those sites they show a gravity feed generator,pretty interesting maybe at camp

[gunn308]

Stop the subsidies for all forms of manufactured energy and see who is left standing and producing.

[Anomaly]

Stop the subsidies for all forms of manufactured energy and see who is left standing and producing.

“ IEA position on subsidies[edit]
According to International Energy Agency (IEA) (2011) energy subsidies artificially lower the price of energy paid by consumers, raise the price received by producers or lower the cost of production. "Fossil fuels subsidies costs generally outweigh the benefits. Subsidies to renewables and low-carbon energy technologies can bring long-term economic and environmental benefits".[20] In November 2011, an IEA report entitled Deploying Renewables 2011 said "subsidies in green energy technologies that were not yet competitive are justified in order to give an incentive to investing into technologies with clear environmental and energy security benefits". The IEA's report disagreed with claims that renewable energy technologies are only viable through costly subsidies and not able to produce energy reliably to meet demand. "A portfolio of renewable energy technologies is becoming cost-competitive in an increasingly broad range of circumstances, in some cases providing investment opportunities without the need for specific economic support," the IEA said, and added that "cost reductions in critical technologies, such as wind and solar, are set to continue."[21]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

[Anomaly]

Stop the subsidies for all forms of manufactured energy and see who is left standing and producing.

Might be a good idea, then Germany and China will really kick in in the renewable energy market and US renewables companies will gain more market share as fossil fuel costs go through the roof.

“Energy subsidies may be direct cash transfers to producers, consumers, or related bodies, as well as indirect support mechanisms, such as tax exemptions and rebates, price controls, trade restrictions, and limits on market access. They may also include energy conservation subsidies.[2] The development of today's major modern energy industries have all relied on substantial subsidy support.

Global fossil fuel subsidies represented 6.5% of global GDP in 2015.[3] The elimination of these subsidies is widely seen as one of the most effective ways of reducing global carbon emissions.[3][4][5][6]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

[swnoel]

Yeah, "independence from providers” is what scares them to death. It would actually mean many more jobs, including in manufacturing and infrastructure. The issue, The Real ISSUE, is the money stream becomes diverse, in a real capitistalist  way.  Just solar installations would be HUGE.! Under water turbines like that wouldn’t kill fish either!

Anything allowed to the public is NOT independence and only those things that allow for the status quote will ever be released. Solar is a joke and is as antiquated source as is coal , nuclear, and fossil fuels! The real technologies would result in the collapse of our social system leading to millions of unemployed people throughout the globe! Technology is not being replaced by humans but by robots...

[Anomaly]

Anything allowed to the public is NOT independence and only those things that allow for the status quote will ever be released. Solar is a joke and is as antiquated source as is coal , nuclear, and fossil fuels! The real technologies would result in the collapse of our social system leading to millions of unemployed people throughout the globe! Technology is not being replaced by humans but by robots...

HAHA! Thoughtful planned transition is the real answer for bringing what you call “The real technologies” to the fore. The issue remains who profits and who serves. I live off the grid. Just built my new house and will be fully solar powered by summer. 12 panels and 40 batteries along with a 10Kw inverter. I have to get the house wired, but that is the same expense as any house. 

[Fishanything]

Grew up in Texas.  Theres more to the story than just unsightly rigs (if they are even visible from the beach).  They leak oil and quite a bit.  Even if its not big enough to make the news, its there.  You get tar washing up on your beaches and it sticks to everything!  They even sell special packets of “tar off” to remove the stuff when you invariably get it on your feet.  I personally dont want that in Maine and dont know of anyone who does, even if it does create s few jobs. 

Lets be real about this.  Putting rigs off our coast is a risk.  I invest, like most on this board do.  The question is, what return do we get on our risk?  Slightly lower gas prices? More $$ in the pockets of oil companies and execs?  If they are going to put our beaches, our fish, and our ecosystems at risk, then what do WE as Mainers get out of it?  More jobs?  How many, and what kind?  I think there's now a lot of people in the Dakatas that would have happily passed on the kinds of jobs (and employees) that the oil companies brought to their state.  Im not saying “no rigs”, but the payoff better be damn good.  These rigs bring a lot more problems and a lot less benefit than proponants on this thread are making them out to be.  Make the return good, and ill be okay with the rigs, but it had better be damn good AND tangible to the every day Mainer.  100 more jobs for the state doesn't come close to cutting it.  Nor do lower gas prices.  Another important question is: if profit is made by drilling off maines coast, who gets it and how much of that profit will be reinvested in Maine?

[gunn308]

 Another important question is: if profit is made by drilling off maines coast, who gets it and how much of that profit will be reinvested in Maine? This is the problem I have with the wind mills and if it wasn't for the subsidies they would not be profitable enough to attract investors.

[Fishanything]

Oil companies dont get subsidies?

[Anomaly]

Another important question is: if profit is made by drilling off maines coast, who gets it and how much of that profit will be reinvested in Maine? This is the problem I have with the wind mills and if it wasn't for the subsidies they would not be profitable enough to attract investors.

Investers are interested in post development profits, seeing the potential in future progress i renewable tech. A single computer used to take up a city block. Now you hold a more powerful one in your hand. Get over it Jerry!

[swnoel]

Grew up in Texas.  Theres more to the story than just unsightly rigs (if they are even visible from the beach).  They leak oil and quite a bit.  Even if its not big enough to make the news, its there.  You get tar washing up on your beaches and it sticks to everything!  They even sell special packets of “tar off” to remove the stuff when you invariably get it on your feet.  I personally dont want that in Maine and dont know of anyone who does, even if it does create s few jobs. 

Lets be real about this.  Putting rigs off our coast is a risk.  I invest, like most on this board do.  The question is, what return do we get on our risk?  Slightly lower gas prices? More $$ in the pockets of oil companies and execs?  If they are going to put our beaches, our fish, and our ecosystems at risk, then what do WE as Mainers get out of it?  More jobs?  How many, and what kind?  I think there's now a lot of people in the Dakatas that would have happily passed on the kinds of jobs (and employees) that the oil companies brought to their state.  Im not saying “no rigs”, but the payoff better be damn good.  These rigs bring a lot more problems and a lot less benefit than proponants on this thread are making them out to be.  Make the return good, and ill be okay with the rigs, but it had better be damn good AND tangible to the every day Mainer.  100 more jobs for the state doesn't come close to cutting it.  Nor do lower gas prices.  Another important question is: if profit is made by drilling off maines coast, who gets it and how much of that profit will be reinvested in Maine?

If you really want to get "real", government gets the biggest profits per gallon than anyone!! Just like the tobacco industry... why do you think they're still around? It's not because it's good for you! Every industry is in bed with government, don't let anyone try to sugar coat the facts! Whether you like it or not, the fact is clear that that gallon of oil has produced millions of dollars in wealth for many people!

[MGK]

Everyone uses fuel but no one wants to allow them to drill for it. "Let's use windmills and solar panel" both consume huge amounts of fossil fuels to build, transport, install, and maintain. And then I see these "stream turbine" which have been pushed by the the same people who want dams torn down to bring back "natural rivers". Makes your scratch your head

[lowaccord66]

Ice fishing.   

[GasBlaster]

  The fish love them

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26375-fish-love-skyscraper-style-living-under-oil-platforms/

[Anomaly]

Everyone uses fuel but no one wants to allow them to drill for it. "Let's use windmills and solar panel" both consume huge amounts of fossil fuels to build, transport, install, and maintain. And then I see these "stream turbine" which have been pushed by the the same people who want dams torn down to bring back "natural rivers". Makes your scratch your head

Good point and well taken! Using oil as a bridge is the idea. Use it to manufacture to tools of the future.. Then put it on the shelf to be used for many more hundreds of years to facilitate progressive development of state of the art techs as they become discovered, invented and put to use. Yeah! Oil is a good tool! Let’s keep it around to use for R & D and manufacturing the better and sustainable future!!!

A quick case in point, Matt. My solar panels and batteries were made with the use of fossil fuels. Got at least the next 10 years these will charge my LX7 and Showdown batteries, run all  the electric in my house and use no fossil fuels for the life of the system. In 10 years the tech will have further advanced as well.