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IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: fishryc on Oct 28, 2006, 02:31 PM
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My local minnow dealer (I'm in NY State) just informed me that there are less than 30 days left until it will be illegal to transport baitfish. This is on the federal level and is intended to limit the spread of VHS virus from the great lakes to inland lakes. By not allowing transport, the dealers cannot receive bait. I asked about farm raised minnows and he said that here in NY anyway, they are included.
He also said it will not be illegal for individuals to net up to one pint of Great Lakes minnows (Emerald Shiners being the most popular) and use them anywhere they wish.
Kinda defeats the purpose, however I personally will utilize this clause. I'm a perch fisher 90% of the time and use only the Emerald Shiners except on hardwater where I use both maggots and shiners.
I searched the web for more details with no luck.
What has anyone else heard on this subject??
Thanks
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so does this only aply to bait taken from them great lakes?
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My local minnow dealer (I'm in NY State) just informed me that there are less than 30 days left until it will be illegal to transport baitfish. This is on the federal level and is intended to limit the spread of VHS virus from the great lakes to inland lakes. By not allowing transport, the dealers cannot receive bait. I asked about farm raised minnows and he said that here in NY anyway, they are included.
He also said it will not be illegal for individuals to net up to one pint of Great Lakes minnows (Emerald Shiners being the most popular) and use them anywhere they wish.
Kinda defeats the purpose, however I personally will utilize this clause. I'm a perch fisher 90% of the time and use only the Emerald Shiners except on hardwater where I use both maggots and shiners.
I searched the web for more details with no luck.
What has anyone else heard on this subject??
Thanks
Try this linkhttp://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/aqua/pdf/vhs-fed-order_ogc-changes.pdf
(http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/aqua/pdf/vhs-fed-order_ogc-changes.pdf)
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Try this linkhttp://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/aqua/pdf/vhs-fed-order_ogc-changes.pdf
(http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/aqua/pdf/vhs-fed-order_ogc-changes.pdf)
Thanks-
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ya gotta love it !!!!!! always something :-\
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be a money maker for sure,,,,, i wonder if there,s anything in the reg book you get with the license about it. if not be alotta guys still usin. so does that mean if your frozen fish thaw out and you get stopped your gonna be fined :-[ bwahahahahaha. i got about 200 minnows i think ill be usin for fishin no matter what. after that we,ll see :tipup:
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I'm not really understanding this...you are not going to be allowed to buy live minnows? I wont be able to go to a baitshop and get fatheads? :tipup:
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Theres no way this is going to happen it will put bait shops out of business. maybe they will stop the use of emerald shiners, big deal if they do that. I can;t see them cutting off all minnows because this will hurt alot of bait shops.
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Can't, believe it! :o
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seems to me it is from canada to united states but hasnt it always been like that?
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be a money maker for sure,,,,, i wonder if there,s anything in the reg book you get with the license about it. if not be alotta guys still usin. so does that mean if your frozen fish thaw out and you get stopped your gonna be fined :-[ bwahahahahaha. i got about 200 minnows i think ill be usin for fishin no matter what. after that we,ll see :tipup:
I have bought live emerald shiners weekly and year round for many years from the dealer (Jeff, owner of "Niagara Outdoors" in Niagara Falls) that tipped me off yesterday since he knew I would have to make alternative plans. He has just attended a meeting with numerous dealers from Western NY; including "Big Catch" and "A-1", two huge distributors of emerald shiners that deliver to dealers throughout Western NY.
I'm in Niagara County and have numerous spots that I can dip my own. He said this is OK and that an individual may net and use one pint per day and transport and use them anywhere that they wish. Seems to defeat the purpose, however it will reduce their usage to a small fraction of the present.
He also said, that for the time being, out of state farm raised minnows (fatheads) are also included.
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are icicles the same as emerald shiners ???
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fishryc, im feel like you do this kinda defeats the purpose i just dont see how an individual can go catch and use but a person cant catch and sell. sounds like they tryin to start a monoply on bait fish. if there is a true concern on a disease in fish then there should be no usage. next thing you know we,ll be able to buy and use from a certified bait shop. 1 that pays a fee for the paper from the state to sell. i dont know i dont like it...not that i cant live with out fishin with minnows. some thing just doesnt seem right here. these diseases seems to run there course in cycles id be more worried about the frakin pollution causin this stuff...
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good link on vhs. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/ceah/cei/taf/emergingdiseasenotice_files/vhsgreatlakes.htm
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The way I read it, it says that those species cannot cross state lines, but within each state they can still be used and sold. If it meant in-state transport too, it would use intra-state as well as interstate transport of fish.
That's how I read it... :-\
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The way I read it, it says that those species cannot cross state lines, but within each state they can still be used and sold. If it meant in-state transport too, it would use intra-state as well as interstate transport of fish.
That's how I read it... :-\
I hope you are right !!!
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I had not heard about this. It could really suck !
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not much noise being made so maybe we,re just dreamin bwa hahahahaha
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Here is the paragraph that I think is going to save us...
"Effective immediately, the interstate movement of certain species of live fish from specified
areas in the United States is prohibited. The Administrator may also designate other States or
portions thereof as prohibited areas under this Order. Thereafter, the interstate movement of any
regulated species of live fish (as specified below) from an area designated as a prohibited area
will be subject to this Order."
This is copied directly from the order at the link posted earlier on this string.
Interstate implies from one state to another, like the interstate highway system.
Intrastate is within a given state. It is this difference in definition that makes me think that as long as they originate in a given state, they can be moved and sold. I could be way off on this though, as I am not a dealer and haven't been to any of those meetings mentioned earlier in the thread.
Another question, if I am wrong about the wording, does this mean that the state stocking programs are going to be ended? Nearly all of the normally stocked gamefish are on that list, and could not be transported from the hatchery to the stocked waters. I can't imagine that this could possibly be the case...
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your explaination sounds good but i still dont understand the part where it says ,an individual may net and use one pint per day and transport and use them anywhere that they wis
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your explaination sounds good but i still dont understand the part where it says ,an individual may net and use one pint per day and transport and use them anywhere that they wis
I don't get that part either...it doesn't say anything about that in the federal order.
Can anybody explain?
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what does this mean about like suckers/ chubs. im a big pike fisherman this is all i use... and i just spent a bunch of money on tip ups/line and a bunch of other stuff...this would suck if i couldnt get suckers/chubs anymore
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another link on subject, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061029/ap_on_bi_ge/banned_fish just hit front page news on yahoo page
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I just stopped at the local bait shop this afternoon asking about any "bans" and so far they've heard nothing of the sort.....the one guy there is a regulations junky and he's seen nothing (yet)....Esox
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Interstate implies from one state to another, like the interstate highway system.
Intrastate is within a given state. It is this difference in definition that makes me think that as long as they originate in a given state, they can be moved and sold.
The Federal Government can only regulate Interstate commerce so I believe you are correct any intrastate trade would not be affected unless DEC decides to get involved too.
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The way I read it, it says that those species cannot cross state lines, but within each state they can still be used and sold. If it meant in-state transport too, it would use intra-state as well as interstate transport of fish.
That's how I read it... :-\
That is exactly what is says. A bait dealer ( New york state was specified ) cannot transport LIVE minnows interstate. Nor can a bait dealer from another state remove them. Luckily, for us New york state is a large producer of emeralds and with the new law, they will be even more availble than ever because the big bait dealers will be forced to take a closer look at local markets now.
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Luckily, for us New york state is a large producer of emeralds and with the new law, they will be even more availble than ever because the big bait dealers will be forced to take a closer look at local markets now.
I'm not sure what you mean? I've talked to 3 bait shop owners in Western NY this weekend; one was sold out of emeralds and said that's it. He's out of the minnow business. The other two were on their last leg as far as quantity on hand and both said that that's it when they're gone.
There will be no more Emarald minnows transported within NY State, or out of NY State.
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called michigan DNR and they are saying its only about transporting across state and national lines. we will be able to buy bait but can not take them across state lines. or will the dealers. he also told me that certain fish besides bait are on the list for no state to state transportation.
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Its just emerald shiners and some other species that jus live in the great lakes. So we are still going to be able to get our shiners, fatheads and chubs. So this regulation does not effect me at all because I hate emeralds, they come of the hook to easy and if you look at them worng they die. Just my opinion on emearlds. Sucks for the guys that like them and use them.
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I just got this reply from my local baitshop on the issue..........
Eric,
Well, unfortunately, it is not a rumor. The federal government, as of 8:00 am Wednesday Oct. 25, 2006 banned all import/export of live fish to help stop the spread of viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS).
Now for the good news. My bait supplier assures me that the ban only prohibits the importation of certain species of live fish from two Canadian provinces into the United States and the interstate movement of the same species from the eight states bordering the Great Lakes. He also stated that their fish farm nets their own emerald shiners and fatheads from within Michigan. They also import Golden Shiners from Arkansas ( which is not affected by the ban ) and suckers are not on the list of banned live fish.
Representatives from the Live Bait industry are meeting in Washington next week, to try and resolve this matter. The only problem that could arise from this unfortunate ban, would be if the government banned harvesting altogether. Hopefully this will not happen, but we will know more after the meeting next week.
The fish farm also assured me, that they will have a full line of minnows for the upcoming ice fishing season.
I have the most at stake, as do the fish farms themselves. So, I will be following this issue closely. Feel free to email me after next week, for an update about the meeting in Washington.
Thanks,
Ron
Hook, Line & Sinker
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Maine has banned imported bait for years! if it's local bait your all set then on the other hand trap your own its fun anyway Im going on 5 months now Ive been trapping them have 650 plus minnows all for myself!for winter it's easy! saves bucks too! more for gas and beer :tipup: :tipup:
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well I don't know if any of you remember but there was a larger spring die off here locally than prior years. It turns out that the same virus that caused the minnow ban is the same thing that caused the die off. It also appears that the commercial shipping industry is the a big cause of introducing exotic species and diseases into the Great Lakes. Now I don't expect the govt. to do much about it unless there is some pressure from the people. "what can I do?" You ask . Well here are some links about the virus and one about the ships and the lack of cleaning required currently. All that I ask is that you take the time to read the articles and if you feel need be write your local congress man (woman) and ask them what there doing to help control the issue.
http://www.trca.on.ca/latestnews/?articleID=1064 (http://www.trca.on.ca/latestnews/?articleID=1064)
If you read the article , on the bottom there is a link that says "whole story " , hit that link and on the new page enter VHS in there search bar. A couple of other articles will pop up.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060921/SPORTS10/609210380/1058 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060921/SPORTS10/609210380/1058)
This is the link about the commercial shipping vessels and there current impact on the Great lakes. On the bottom of this article there is a link where you can contact your local congress . Again if you feel this is an important issue write em a letter and just ask them what there doing to help save our fisheries.
Thanks Pinche
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Man this would really blow, I do like most the bait shops in WNY and Big Catch did a great job at case lake tourney last year. This is there main source of income not overpriced goods in the shop. I know the owners personally and they are really good people just trying to make a living.
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH MORE REGULATIONS LIKE THIS?
One might suggest that they examine the true source of invasive fish, and diseases?international shipments and the water they carry in their ballasts??
Scott this is no good!~
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Man this would really blow, I do like most the bait shops in WNY and Big Catch did a great job at case lake tourney last year. This is there main source of income not overpriced goods in the shop. I know the owners personally and they are really good people just trying to make a living.
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH MORE REGULATIONS LIKE THIS?
One might suggest that they examine the true source of invasive fish, and diseases?international shipments and the water they carry in their ballasts??
Scott this is no good!~
Yes buckski , the issue really isnt the minnow transport ban or the fact that the ban may rise the cost of live bait . The real issue is the shipping industry , Im glad to see another member show concearn. If you could take a couple minutes and write a letter to your local govt. and ask what there doing about this.?
Thanks again I truely believe if we all took the time to do something we could put a little pressure on em !
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Hello All!
New member here! Maybe I can help out a little here.
There was a meeting in Brooklyn,MI with most of the larger bait wholesalers present from most of the affected states. Basically it comes down to us (the bait and aquaculture industry being blindsided by this ruling. Also this ruling can be added/subtracted to as far as states and/or species of fish. We should know a little more in the next few days what direction APHIS is leaning towards if any. There was also to be a meeting in Washington yesterday and rumor was that something might be coming out of that.
If you have any questions just ask!
Gary
Wendells Wholesale Bait and Tackle
Woodland ,MI
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Hello All!
New member here! Maybe I can help out a little here.
There was a meeting in Brooklyn,MI with most of the larger bait wholesalers present from most of the affected states. Basically it comes down to us (the bait and aquaculture industry being blindsided by this ruling. Also this ruling can be added/subtracted to as far as states and/or species of fish. We should know a little more in the next few days what direction APHIS is leaning towards if any. There was also to be a meeting in Washington yesterday and rumor was that something might be coming out of that.
If you have any questions just ask!
Gary
Wendells Wholesale Bait and Tackle
Woodland ,MI
Thanks Gary and welcome to the site there is allot of good stuff here .
As far as the whole VHS stuff , yes please keep us posted as far as the outcome. I talked a bit with Ron from hook Line and sinker and he will be passing along the info from the washington meeting.
Also let us know if there is anything we as sportsman can do to help with the situation.
Thanks again and welcome aboard.
Check out the Michigan part of the board for the local stuff. ( you will need 5 posts to view the reports)
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Also there was an article in the Detroit Fee Press today about the meeting.
Gary
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Thanks heres the link.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061102/SPORTS10/611020333/1058 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061102/SPORTS10/611020333/1058)
Pinche
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Here are a few quotes from the article........
"Like alewives, zebra mussels and about 150 other organisms, VHS is an exotic species that entered lakes from outside, probably in the ballast water of ocean-going ships. Before the Lake St. Clair musky die-off last spring, it was known only in a few saltwater species."
That caused us to issue the emergency order to stop the movement of fish from (Ontario and Quebec) and the states where the disease has been found," including Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York. And after VHS was found in Conesus Lake, which is near Lake Ontario but has no direct connection to it, New York State banned the movement of the affected species within its borders.
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pinche..thanks for making this issue grind into peoples minds...far to many so called sportsman groan and grumble, rant and rave but do absolutly nothing. it just bugs me to know that they will blame everything but their own inaction when one day the great outdoors is gone. ill be writting my state congressman that ive gotten good corospondances from. thanks again pinche for taking a stand when most people could care less.
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Another thing that we can do as sportmen is to support our local ma & pa bait shops. Sure they may not have the variety of selection as a Walmart but I bet they can tell you where the fish are biting or what the hot ice-jigs are! Sadly to say this American Heritage is dropping by the wayside.
Gary
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Maine has banned imported bait for years! if it's local bait your all set then on the other hand trap your own its fun anyway Im going on 5 months now Ive been trapping them have 650 plus minnows all for myself!for winter it's easy! saves bucks too! more for gas and beer :tipup: :tipup:
Hey Mainehazmt!
I probably supply more bait to more stores then anybody else in Michigan and I have to agree with you! Trap your own bait or go pick a few nightcrawlers. But do NOT forget to take your kids/grandchildren/nephews or nieces with you! These are the ones we need to keep this way of life alive. In todays society with everything on a fast pace and high tech we need to think about who is going to our watchdogs of the future.
Gary
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Sure they may not have the variety of selection as a Walmart
I can't find CRAP at WalMart for ice gear...the jigs are all generic and the same...no variety. I tried their salted minnows, and they seemed to be freeze dried. Way to stiff, and broke apart when I tried to put them on a hook. Not a single hit on them, ended up chucking them and going home.
I always go to the local baitshop for minnows, live or salted...the salteds cost more, but they get bites.
Normal stuff not for ice fishing, okay...I like to save a buck(I am a cheap b*****d after all...)
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Hey Mainehazmt!
I probably supply more bait to more stores then anybody else in Michigan and I have to agree with you! Trap your own bait or go pick a few nightcrawlers. But do NOT forget to take your kids/grandchildren/nephews or nieces with you! These are the ones we need to keep this way of life alive. In todays society with everything on a fast pace and high tech we need to think about who is going to our watchdogs of the future.
Gary
Oh I do with the grandson He loves it when we go check the traps daily for the "fishies" I take him all the time this will be his 3rd season on the ice this year (wife and I are raising him) wife works as an rn so if I wanna go fishing he goes 2 days of a dollar and a half an hr for a sitter are way over damn!
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As of right now you can ship bait in the state it was dipped. Are biggest fear here in New York is the state will step in and ban all dipping for minnows in any waters found to have vhs in it. The reason behind this would be to stop the spread into unaffected waters.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait
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As of right now you can ship bait in the state it was dipped. Are biggest fear here in New York is the state will step in and ban all dipping for minnows in any waters found to have vhs in it. The reason behind this would be to stop the spread into unaffected waters.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait
and ? is that wrong?
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The thing is that once the virus is here you can not stop it! New York has already stopped the in state transfers unlike the other 7 states. All waters connected to the great lakes will get the virus if mother nature lets it. Which means the whole mississippi watershed. Did we stop the zebra mussels? No. Did we stop the gobies? No. Here in Mich. we have the emerald ash borer, an we stop it? No.
I think you get my point.
If anybody is interested a good book on the fish industry in the early 1900's in the Great Lakes region (mainly MI.) is "Pity the fish and then Man" good reading if you can find a copy.
Gary
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The best way to control this virus is don’t use bait at all. What I understand Lake Erie is already infected with the virus. That means if you buy minnows at a buffalo bait shop and bring them to an inland lake, that lake is going to get the virus too. I heard Conesus Lake is already infected with the virus. I wonder how that virus got into that lake. A fisherman brought the virus in from the outside. New York state bait laws are too liberal. Its time we ban all outside bait all together.
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ray , putting a ban on bait is not going to stop the problem, that is not the only way that the virus is spread. the people that have boats in the affected water and go to another body have to clean the livewell,bilge pumps, any mud or foreign matter on the boat or trailer or the vehicle for that matter? at least what the DEC is saying at this point and time, don't forget the birds that transport bait and water on them.education is the answer that will help slow down the problem imo it is to late to stop it for now.
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Good point, Molsonport. A long time ago I had a pond put in a remote area of my farm. It was spring fed and I wanted a bass pond only. Well I trapped shiners and hand sorted them to be sure no bluegills were added to the pond. After two years I added the bass to the minnows. When I went out there to fish the next year, I started catching these big bluegills.... I was furious that someone had 'snuck in' and polluted my 'pristine' bass pond. Of course nobody brought them in........ the ducks did. They fed on the eggs in other ponds and got them on their feathers, and when they landed on my pond, some of them dropped off and hatched. These new regs might slow the progression of VHS down, but it's too late to stop it. Given enough time, nature will handle it.... she always does.
IMHO,
SF
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Exactly Semper Fi, any new pond will have fish in it eventually(barring over pollution of course) if it is big enough. Birds are natures way of spreading the fish wealth!!!!(or in this case poverty... :P :P)
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Good point, Molsonport. A long time ago I had a pond put in a remote area of my farm. It was spring fed and I wanted a bass pond only. Well I trapped shiners and hand sorted them to be sure no bluegills were added to the pond. After two years I added the bass to the minnows. When I went out there to fish the next year, I started catching these big bluegills.... I was furious that someone had 'snuck in' and polluted my 'pristine' bass pond. Of course nobody brought them in........ the ducks did. They fed on the eggs in other ponds and got them on their feathers, and when they landed on my pond, some of them dropped off and hatched. These new regs might slow the progression of VHS down, but it's too late to stop it. Given enough time, nature will handle it.... she always does.
IMHO,
SF
woulda been nice of the ducks while they were at it, to bring in some perch or walleye eh? 8)
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http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/SPORTS10/611090385/1058 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/SPORTS10/611090385/1058)