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Line Angle Deflection to first line guide

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slipperybob:

--- Quote from: HWeber on Jul 31, 2018, 09:28 PM ---Most long stems seem to be angled more toward the guide possibly eliminating any issue caused by the longer stem

--- End quote ---

True to that.  The angle that the reel rotor (for my Shimano Stradics 1000) must create to eliminate the offset of line difference is (eyeballed) roughly about varying between 15 to 30 degrees, given among the ice rods I have.  Way too much variation for me to even begin to collect guestimated data.  ;D  If my memory serves me, I believe I've only seen one HT long stem reel that was actually angled somewhat.

From the measurements of two near identical rod set ups (Clam Ice Team Carbon Ice rods) that varies with only the first line guide being 1/2 inch different already yields a 1 degree difference.  The variation is from the size of the ring of the first line guide as well as the placement of it and even the length of the line guide stem.  Again it's not so much the reel, although it does have a direct contribution to the pulsating effect by design.  It's not direction of the topic I'm pursuing because of different manufacture reel designs.  It's really the positioning of first line guide or the selection of line guide set, IMO that manufactures should put some R&D into.

The pulsating effect is like a dynamic relationship.  If you winch slow, you won't feel it.  Obviously the faster you winch your reel and the speed of the line retrieved, the pulsating effect is more pronounced due to the difference in line retrieval speed.  If no line is being retrieved and the drag just clicks away at a constant speed as one cranks the reel handle, there is no pulsating effect.  (Of course that's a recipe for line twist.)  So that angled reel, unless it is very close to perfect matched to the rod to create the symmetrical cone, it will be of no effect.

Now that reminds me that I should just measure the actual line distance at comparison of the short vs long sides difference.

I got a little curious and decided to check a few reels.  Turns out all of them are slightly angled.  Pfleuger President spinning reels were angled.  Shimano Stradics spinning reels were angled, even the 20 year old reel was angled.  Most of them were about 2-3 degrees angled only.  I was checking them by either the base or flat top part of the spools against the rod blank.

slipperybob:
So after all the downtime and too much thinking... I have decided that I will fish my 13 Whiteout rod skipping the first line guide to allow a more straight line and more uniformed cone angle.  Waiting for ice and some real field test...

HWeber:
Do you build rods at all?  Could really open up your experimenting. You could also fix rods with uneven cones

perchnut:
or maybe we just play the fish a little slower and not 'winch' the fish in like its our last meal coming up from the depths...... ;D. Im getting ready to build a few rods, so Ill be paying attention to guide placement, but too, im not going to move all my guides toward the end of my rod.....I use all rods that Ive built and Ive not noticed any pulsating effects when bringing in fish....but I also use very light line, so I dont horse the fish in.....Again, good post Slippery.

slipperybob:

--- Quote from: perchnut on Oct 24, 2018, 08:30 AM ---or maybe we just play the fish a little slower and not 'winch' the fish in like its our last meal coming up from the depths...... ;D. Im getting ready to build a few rods, so Ill be paying attention to guide placement, but too, im not going to move all my guides toward the end of my rod.....I use all rods that Ive built and Ive not noticed any pulsating effects when bringing in fish....but I also use very light line, so I dont horse the fish in.....Again, good post Slippery.

--- End quote ---

Thanks, LOL yeah, I don't like my fish spitting their guts out.  I take my time with them and often times it's easier to return them back with lots of life.  However for some fish like smelt and other trout species...I'm gonna need to reel as fast as I can at times.  At least I feel like I was winching like no tomorrow at times.  To include also fishing much deeper depths of like 50 feet to 100 feet or more at times.  It's not always that I'm feeling the rod tip bouncing and vibrating.  Glass blank rods will absorb those vibration.  What I see is the line vibrating and the water rippling on the surface in the ice hole.  When I use my baitcasting set up, all of that disappears virtually and I have better feel with line connection to fish.  At times I feel my line rubbing against ice hole the moment the fish turns in different direction.  With my spinning set up, most times when I realize that has happened, it had happened a while already.


--- Quote from: HWeber on Oct 23, 2018, 06:36 PM ---Do you build rods at all?  Could really open up your experimenting. You could also fix rods with uneven cones

--- End quote ---
I don't build rods.  Maybe in the future it's something I would like to do.  As well as fly tying too.  This was just something that has always felt off to me with short ice fishing rods.  It's something that is also on full sized fishing rods.  The difference one can feel from different rods and everything down to the different line type or diameter of line to different reel size and actual reel components used.  However that's going tangent off of line guide placements on ice rods.

For such short ice rods, it seems the biggest threshold is around 10-12 inches away from the reel stem.  If I were a rod builder, it's not just the finished rod length that I would concern myself with.  I would concern myself with those spacing of the line guides that often is place in a small distance of around only 12 inches or so to the rod tip.  If we look at the linear physics of just angles, less angle is smoother transition.  However there's no way we will want just that, because the rod bend with a load, drastically changes the dynamics of simple linear physics.

Now this get's into the spinning reel by design.  It's not always the smallest spool on the smallest spinning reel.  That rotor with the bail and everything is what is determining the line angle or rather the conical threshold of the line funnel.  It goes to what's the point of having a smaller spool when the rotor and bail is the same one from a larger reel.  It will feel like a larger reel still while turning the handle in operation.  I won't name the actual reels, because one of my favorite was built like this.

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