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Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Ice Fishing Transportation => Topic started by: Garrett on Aug 24, 2017, 03:33 PM

Title: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Aug 24, 2017, 03:33 PM
I am in progress of building a snowdog type machine using a late 80's Arctic cat cougar as a parts sled that was given to me. Only need a few more parts to get ordered before I start assembling the beast. Anybody else looking at their on ice transportation already and thinking ice wont come soon enough?

Its going to be low powered only using a 6.5hp engine, and gearing (If my math is right) should be about 25MPH max. Should be plenty for this build. If I like it, I plan on building another using a larger motor with electric start.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Junkie4Ice on Aug 24, 2017, 04:04 PM
Awesome! Post some pics when you get'er finished! I've never seen one in action before but they look pretty sweet!

Picked up an old '85 Honda ATC 110 3 wheeler the other weekend. I grew up on one and have always wanted my own so it'll double as my ice fishing transportation this winter. Come to find out they also float if it were to break through the ice too! Doesn't need much work but i'll be giving her a nice little tune up before this season. Depending how it treks through the snow I've been thinking about rigging up a ski for the front of it.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: DR.SPECKLER on Aug 24, 2017, 04:40 PM
i put kold kutter ice racing screws in my tires on a baja warrior minibike i have just sitting around.250 in each tire.going to make a quick release hitch hook up and it will be ready to pull my gear out.already bought the hitch for my shelters.may not be to fast but it will hook up.ive seen videos of them racing on the ice.thats not me and i don't care if i have to keep my feet on the ice to go..going to beat walking and it doesn't take too much room in the back of my truck.light too.i would love a snow dog style sled.snowmobile is a pain with no trailer and loading it in a truck sucks by yourself.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: HardH20Fishin on Aug 24, 2017, 09:52 PM
junkie4ice,
 I have a honda 3-wheeler too that I converted for ice fishing. Trust me, don't just do a single ski for the front. I copied a version on you-tube a guy did a while ago. search you-tube for "three wheeler ice fishing" and watch the video done by In-Depth Outdoors about the "ski-wheeler". Really simple ski design for the front that is really stable and amazingly effective.  Cost me $40 for a good set of old skis with the leaf springs, then about $15-$20 in steel to weld together. Works great. I'll try to upload some pics later...have to go find them now that photobucket is holding my pic library hostage.

Tight lines....
(http://i.imgur.com/dTAPXMx.jpg)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Junkie4Ice on Aug 25, 2017, 08:11 AM
junkie4ice,
 I have a honda 3-wheeler too that I converted for ice fishing. Trust me, don't just do a single ski for the front. I copied a version on you-tube a guy did a while ago. search you-tube for "three wheeler ice fishing" and watch the video done by In-Depth Outdoors about the "ski-wheeler". Really simple ski design for the front that is really stable and amazingly effective.  Cost me $40 for a good set of old skis with the leaf springs, then about $15-$20 in steel to weld together. Works great. I'll try to upload some pics later...have to go find them now that photobucket is holding my pic library hostage.

Tight lines....

That is ridiculously awesome!! If you find the pics please share! Do you know if there is any way to switch between the ski and wheel or once you weld the steel is it strictly an ice machine? I had to watch the youtube video without sound since I'm at work so maybe they covered this in the video. I kind of want to be able to use the 3wheeler in the summer with my son too but I might have to get a second one because that design looks awesome!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: HardH20Fishin on Aug 27, 2017, 12:04 AM
junkie4ice,
I put a pic in the previous post of the ski-wheeler on the ice, sorry..don't have a closer up. Yes, I can switch the ski assembly out for the tire in the warm season. The assembly bolts into the same notches in the forks that the tire attaches to.  H here's some pics of the actual ski assembly. The notch at the top of the bar sticking up to the left fits around the stud on the fork where the front tire brake engages when the tire is on and it keeps the whole assembly from rotating. The short bar that attaches to the forks has the plate welded to it and the longer bar that the skis are attached to attaches to the plate with a single bolt. The only thing I will do differently on the next one is to increase the gap between the upper and lower bars just a bit more. When I turn the handle bars all the way in a turn, the outside ski does lift off the ground just a little. A slightly bigger gap would keep the ski's on the ground better. But, that said, it still works just fine as is. I should probably paint this too...but it is a "prototype" so, you know.....

Seriously though, it works really well.
(http://i.imgur.com/pf4fpnk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7pgxBHT.jpg)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Cfilbert on Aug 27, 2017, 09:45 AM
How does that thing handle on glare Ice?  does the solid axle want to keep you tracking straight even with the skis turned?
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: HardH20Fishin on Aug 27, 2017, 12:01 PM
I haven't had it on glare ice. Had it on as little as an inch of snow on ice though and it tracked just fine.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: sunniewally on Aug 27, 2017, 01:33 PM
How does that thing handle on glare Ice?  does the solid axle want to keep you tracking straight even with the skis turned?

Will have to put a good set of carbides on the skis

Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: DR.SPECKLER on Aug 27, 2017, 02:47 PM
I would just stud the tires on a 3 wheeler,my Honda 200s 3 wheeler went great even without studs and didn't need a ski..balloon tires stay on top of slow and slush.i would still use mine but it was so cold blooded and hard to start in anything below 30 degrees.jmo.that ski setup looks great tho.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: HardH20Fishin on Aug 27, 2017, 04:30 PM
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: DR.SPECKLER on Aug 27, 2017, 06:04 PM
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.
mine would start alright but would foul the plug for some reason after 5 minutes of riding.probably jetting.ran great spring thru fall until  it got cold enough to snow.lol.i have a little Suzuki lt 125 quad now. I'm going to see if it likes the cold.it has 2 different choke settings and a primer so it should run in the cold.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Junkie4Ice on Aug 28, 2017, 08:22 AM
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.

Good to know, I'd rather be over cautious than be stuck at the landing and have to pull the gear by hand! I figured I could start it up before leaving the house while it is still warm from being in the garage and it should still be good to go by the time I get to the landing. This first winter with it will be some trial and error I guess!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: michianafisherman on Aug 28, 2017, 01:20 PM
The old Honda's are getting older by the minute. With that said, the old condenser and points need replacing.
They will run with the old parts, but have a week spark for cold starting.
I carry starting fluid for the below 0 days.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Junkie4Ice on Sep 01, 2017, 09:49 AM
junkie4ice,
I put a pic in the previous post of the ski-wheeler on the ice, sorry..don't have a closer up. Yes, I can switch the ski assembly out for the tire in the warm season. The assembly bolts into the same notches in the forks that the tire attaches to.  H here's some pics of the actual ski assembly. The notch at the top of the bar sticking up to the left fits around the stud on the fork where the front tire brake engages when the tire is on and it keeps the whole assembly from rotating. The short bar that attaches to the forks has the plate welded to it and the longer bar that the skis are attached to attaches to the plate with a single bolt. The only thing I will do differently on the next one is to increase the gap between the upper and lower bars just a bit more. When I turn the handle bars all the way in a turn, the outside ski does lift off the ground just a little. A slightly bigger gap would keep the ski's on the ground better. But, that said, it still works just fine as is. I should probably paint this too...but it is a "prototype" so, you know.....

Seriously though, it works really well.
(http://i.imgur.com/pf4fpnk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7pgxBHT.jpg)

Do you have dimensions for how far apart you have the skis and how big the gap is between the upper and lower bars and how much wider you would have made it?
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: chilly-willy on Sep 01, 2017, 01:22 PM
Wondering my self how a colmen trill bike would do??  like the ct200u ex  the one with schocks??  they even have performance up grades on the Web for souping them up..  for around $500 for a new ice bike..   if it fell threw ice your only out $500 .. better then $10,000-$18,000 for a new 4x4 atv..   don't know how deep snow or wet glare ice it would handle ??  Any how might be the next project to make a t-rex style one of those with the two wheels in the front?? Or skis ?
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: HardH20Fishin on Sep 01, 2017, 07:40 PM
junkie4ice,
The skis are 29 inches wide from center of one ski to the next....which I shot for to essentially have the skis close to center of the back wheel that they are in front of. The gap between the two bars is 1/4 inch...for version 2 I would make it 1/2 inch.

Tight lines...
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Junkie4Ice on Sep 04, 2017, 08:06 AM
junkie4ice,
The skis are 29 inches wide from center of one ski to the next....which I shot for to essentially have the skis close to center of the back wheel that they are in front of. The gap between the two bars is 1/4 inch...for version 2 I would make it 1/2 inch.

Tight lines...

Thank you sir! I'm in the works of trying to find a set of skis, it is a little harder than I anticipated. Looking forward to trying it out!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Nov 20, 2017, 08:18 PM
Winter's back.  Any progress reports from the snow dog builders? Had mine out last couple of days getting firewood, fun times.   
To PO Garrett, you may want to look at a little less top speed. You will lose a lot of bottom end grunt with tall gearing and 12-15 mph is lots on one of these. No suspension in the towed sled gives lots of surprises on rough ice.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Nov 21, 2017, 02:29 PM
Not much progress at all. Car repairs, firewood, hunting and family has taken priority this fall. Hoping that I can work on it a little this week and at least have it assembled soon. I will likely be looking closely at gearing it down further, I expect it to work out about 20-25mph with the current gearing and If I can fit the larger sprockets in the current jackshaft I have planned it will gear it down further.

-Garrett
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Dec 11, 2017, 10:15 AM
Winter's back.  Any progress reports from the snow dog builders? Had mine out last couple of days getting firewood, fun times.   
To PO Garrett, you may want to look at a little less top speed. You will lose a lot of bottom end grunt with tall gearing and 12-15 mph is lots on one of these. No suspension in the towed sled gives lots of surprises on rough ice.

Metalbender-
Do you have a suggestion of gear reduction to the track drive shaft. I need to order a different sprocket for my build anyway. I am at about a 3:1 reduction as planned now. Which should give ma a 17mph max if I calculated correctly. Thinking of possibly gearing down further but I am running into some space restrictions and fitting in the larger sprocket would force me to offset the engine to one side of the machine which I would like to avoid.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.


-Garrett
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Dec 11, 2017, 05:19 PM
The first sled I built used a centrifugal clutch with a 7 hp engine and a jack shaft, giving a two step reduction.  The later one utilizes a 2-1 reduction gearbox with an integral multi disc wet centrifugal clutch.  Has 15 hp with electric start.  I think the final drive is around 3-1 to the track.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Dec 11, 2017, 08:54 PM
Okay this one for now is torque converter on a harbor freight engine reduced down to the original jackshaft for the snowmobile drive so the snowmobile chaincase and brake setup can still be used as well.

Hopefully it turns out okay, so far not much money invested but will be fun if I can get it finished up soon. Goal is to be done by xmas so I can pull the kids around with it... and do some ice fishing🤞
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Mar 05, 2018, 10:54 AM
Well I finally have it up and running, used a thumb throttle which I might change over to a twist throttle eventually. The handle bars need to be more rigid for the attachment place. On the flat, it is a blast! but in deeper snow when it starts to carve one way or another the handlebars flex instead of being used to correct the lean. Either way I like it so far and the kids like riding behind it so its okay if the wife doesn't  ;D
Sorry for the large pic in advanced, new to attached images and linked it over from FB and not sure how to resize it.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28516847_10102407504938196_6705468575021798213_o.jpg?oh=3a6ccfa063157b35033f79a051c0f294&oe=5B08BD4A)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Mar 05, 2018, 01:50 PM
If it's working, you're at 100%  My suggestion is to mount the handlebars right on the bar coming from the sled. A video would be great.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: sdbigeye on Mar 06, 2018, 11:21 PM
Garrett, do you have any pics of the drive side? have access to an old Polaris with FNR gears and plan to do the same to it. Sled was made in 1966 I think.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Mar 07, 2018, 02:42 PM
I have modified the mount a little bit since that picture. It was allowing too much flex while carving in deeper snow. Instead of holding the sled at a certain angle it was basically twisting further until it was allowed to basically flop over. Rebuilt the base and its much better. Another thing I want to change is the curve of the handle so it sits higher at "rest". Length of the throttle cable is maxed out so I have to get a longer one before I address the handle angle. So far its a ton of fun ;D
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Mar 07, 2018, 06:31 PM
I used bicycle brake cables for the throttle and brake.  Cheap and new from CDN tire.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Mar 14, 2018, 12:32 PM
hey Guys, I finally got my video taken while giving my daughter a ride, probably going 1/2 speed at the most during the video. So far its been a blast, still tweaking things but runs awesome right now too. Hopefully this link works, I will eventually load it onto youtube too.

https://www.facebook.com/garrett.gorden/videos/10102420589102426/ (https://www.facebook.com/garrett.gorden/videos/10102420589102426/)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Mar 14, 2018, 04:13 PM
Good job
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: buckzone101 on Dec 13, 2018, 07:41 PM
Im slowly getting my parts together!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Dec 14, 2018, 01:44 PM
Quick video of the machine running around behind the shop yesterday... box on the back holds my vex, rod bag, bait, snacks and ice scoop. Auger goes in the sled with me for now.

Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Jan 02, 2019, 09:33 AM
So for a follow up on it after using for a couple trips now.... I am happy with how it works but would change a few things if I was starting all over.

1) I used a Harbor Freight 6.5HP predator because, well, it was cheaper. If I had the foresight I would of bought the 13.5 hp model because of 3 reasons. The extra power to get up to full track speed under load, the electric start option would be nice to have, and the 13.5 hp model has a charging coil and will power a headlight off the motor where on mine I had to wire up a battery just to run the headlight. Also the torque converter is a little heavier duty as its for the 1" shaft vs the 3/4" shaft I currently have. Likely the belt will last longer as well.

2) Use a newer chassis for the parts sled. I used a 86' Arctic Cat Cougar and it serves its purpose but parts can be hard to find. I had a hard time finding a new old stock chain case seal for it and when you do need parts they are generally more expensive than say a mid90's to early 2000's chassis where parts are plentiful still.

3) Plan out the handlebar design better. I slapped mine together one night and while they work, they cannot fold over the top of the sled because of the rear shock mounts (another reason to go newer sled as they are not mounted that way in later suspension designs. Also I would plan on using more of the original sled switches and controls for kill switch and lights, I had pulled mine off and tossed them before realizing that I should have left them and repurposed them, oh well, next time. My handle bars are not at a good angle for standing and driving, much better for sitting, hopefully the next design will be better for both.
Also after last nights trip my fingers were frozen after pulling my gear, the drive back in the wind starting with cold fingers and below 0 temps will have me adding handle bar mitts this week before my annual trip up north this weekend.

(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/wi_garrett/Track%20sled/Side%20profile_zpsybwhbipi.jpg) (https://s36.photobucket.com/user/wi_garrett/media/Track%20sled/Side%20profile_zpsybwhbipi.jpg.html)

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/wi_garrett/Track%20sled/Inside%20box_zpscumwamuy.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/wi_garrett/media/Track%20sled/Inside%20box_zpscumwamuy.jpg.html)

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/wi_garrett/Track%20sled/handlebars_zpsjcropm5s.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/wi_garrett/media/Track%20sled/handlebars_zpsjcropm5s.jpg.html)




Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: SKIFFLAKEJIMMY on Jan 02, 2019, 09:54 AM
Very cool. Nice job.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: eyeballer6 on Jan 02, 2019, 10:18 AM
Looks good!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Jan 02, 2019, 04:01 PM
Nice rig.  Electric start is why I went with 15 hp on my second.  Cheaper than the 13 on sale.I use a small Oddessy agm battery. Haven't put  the led lights on yet, have them for a while now. Looking forward to your next build.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Team Rapo on Jan 02, 2019, 06:00 PM
You gotta start somewhere!
Looks good man and I am in the same boat with the bigger engine and charging system for lights and heated grips. Lighting switch controls would be good from the oem sled I tossed mine as well, I found that bicycle levers work way better and more comfortable that sled throttle and brake. I’ve bypassed my govenor on my 6.5 for the xtra jam mostly for hills and such. I won’t be too upset if I blow it up because then I will have to buy a big guy lol.

Hey Bender,
Your in Canada right? Have you had any interactions with the law? Any issues? And are you always helmeted?
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: buckzone101 on Jan 02, 2019, 07:46 PM
Iv got a 6.5 hp but with thw few mods i plan on doin to it itll net me around 10.5 hp.. and iv got a 1.5 watt solar panel charging a 9ah batt for my led bar.. just need some controls and to finish up my controls
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Jan 02, 2019, 09:15 PM
Was at a local winter festival a couple years ago. RCMP looked it over, asked the usual questions, like how fast. I explained the more fun than fast aspect. Mainly for ice fishing, they said neat.  Local search and rescue guy there took it for a rip, figured they should have one. When I was building, did some custom machining for a city cop. He took pics to show his buddy, said a machine like that was the least of his worries. Never had any comment on helmet.  Had it at another lake during an ice fishing tourney. Happen to know the mayor, was surveying the area with him on the back. Lots of stopping to bs with the locals.All positive so far.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Jordang2330 on Jan 09, 2019, 02:05 AM
I'm looking at building a track sled like this and I'm wondering about gear ratios.

Is this kind of like machine specific, build it, try it out, adjust accordingly? 
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Jan 09, 2019, 09:17 AM
Lots of figuring out. Engine rpm of 3600 down to track sprocket   That rpm with the circumference gives inches per min, calculated to ft per min, to mph
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Team Rapo on Jan 09, 2019, 06:13 PM
Lots of figuring out. Engine rpm of 3600 down to track sprocket   That rpm with the circumference gives inches per min, calculated to ft per min, to mph

This man knows best, I built mine from an old snowmobile chassis and I’ve got 5 sprockets in a box to show its trial and error/ figuring out.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Jan 09, 2019, 08:28 PM
A digital tach would surely be an asset, especially using a variable pulley system.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Jan 10, 2019, 09:07 AM
Just got back from a 4 day trip up north where there was still a decent amount of snow on the lake the first day, but nearing 40F temps on end of day 1 into 2 created slushy conditions.

What I learned from the trip. Just me with minimal gear and hard crusty snow, the sled had no problem getting to full RPM and full speed. With the snow pockets/ slush and more gear that I hauled for the rest of the group, it could not get to full speed. It just didn't have the power to get to full RPM and highest gear ratio.

Day 3 the temps dropped and Also, our group dropped from 8 guys with 2 wheelers and my track sled to  4 guys and just my track sled. So we loaded up the 2 magnum sleds in a chain behind the track sled and we all piled in with our gear. And no go. Just sat there and spun since the track sled was so light. We moved one of the guys and had him sit on the wood box on the track sled and we were able to start chugging along. The slush was all frozen from the high winds and temps dropping to 0F the night before.  We may have looked like a circus train but it just kept moving along about 1/2 speed at full throttle. I was amazed at how well it did with that much weight to drag around.

Overall I am very happy with it, but still want to change a couple things.

Option 1: Change gearing and keep the same motor setup which has a couple of downfalls. The jackshaft that I would need to increase the tooth count on the sprocket has no room to do so unless I notch out the tunnel, I have not measured how much room under the tunnel I have before hitting the track. I might not have any room to gain sprocket diameter at all. Secondly, the 6.5hp predator has no charging coil for powering a headlight, and it does not have electric start, not a deal breaker as it starts well pulling it by hand but would be nice to hit a button to start and go!

Option 2: Buy a 13hp Predator engine and gain power, charging capabilities and electric start. I would also have to buy a new torque converter as the shaft sizes are different. Keeping the same jackshaft sprocket gearing since the double HP should be able to keep the RPMs higher. Oddly the 13HP is governed at 3600RPM and the 6.5hp is 3800RPM per specs, but I expect it should still be able to hold full RPM under all loads.

Option 3: Try and sell the current track sled as is and then build version 2 this summer using everything I have learned from version 1. This would allow me to start with a newer chassis possibly with a gearbox with reverse. Newer chassis would have all suspension under /inside track vs current sled that has rear shocks outside the sled that is impeding handlebars form folding over the top of the current sled. Lastly put larger HP engine on new sled with electric start (just like option 2)

I will likely just run it the way it is currently for the rest of the season, unless I find the cash to do the upgrades above what I could sell the current sled for. Right now we have no snow on the ground at home so it will just sit for the time being....

I highly recommend the project if you have the tools to do so. I use the welder at work so until I buy my own I may not be pursuing option 3 as it has been a pain not being able to do that part at home on my free time.   
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Jan 10, 2019, 05:00 PM
I vote for option 3.  Good things learned from first build, incorporate new ideas into a revised version 2. Been there, done that. I would like to do a version 3 myself. Would like to try a variable belt drive, possibly with reverse. I had an old riding mower that had a small fwd/rev gear box, would be ideal.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: buckzone101 on Jan 10, 2019, 06:35 PM
This man knows best, I built mine from an old snowmobile chassis and I’ve got 5 sprockets in a box to show its trial and error/ figuring out.
What did you end up with?
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: buckzone101 on Jan 10, 2019, 06:46 PM
Iv got a comet style clutch system with a 10 tooth to a 60 tooth... then that drives a 17 tooth to a 34.. but on my 6.5 pread.. iv got the gov. Deleted and a list of other perfomance things done to it to boost it to around a 10.5 they can be built to do 20+ hp.. but its all $$ im also trying to figure out how to stud my track without using aggressive studs. For lights  iv got a 12ah 12 v batt qith a 1.5 watt solar trickle charger hooked up to a 13" led bar... mine is still in the works... looking for some advice on the gearing..  stock motor is gov. At 3800 but with gov delete you can turn around 4500-5k with easy and up to 8k with supporting mods..
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Fisherman 1 on Jan 11, 2019, 04:32 PM

Hey Bender,
Your in Canada right? Have you had any interactions with the law? Any issues? And are you always helmeted?

Each province up here has their own rules when it comes to snowmobiles and any other type of off road vehicle.  I made an inquiry to MTO (Ministry of Transport Ontario) who make the rules for this province.  Finally got an email back from them today and here's what they had to say about it. 

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the use of Snow Dogs in Ontario.

 Based on our current assessment, we have determined that the Snow Dog does not meet the classification requirements of an off-road vehicle (ORV) or motorized snow vehicle (MSV) under the Highway Traffic Act (HTA), Off-Road Vehicle Act (ORVA) or Motorized Snow Vehicle Act (MSVA) regulations.

 ORVs and MSVs riders must meet registration requirements, and must obtain either a plate or permit to operate their vehicle on Ontario roads or lands (i.e., provincial highways, trails). Vehicles that do not meet the ministry’s requirements may only be used on private property (i.e. property must be owned by the vehicle operator or the vehicle owner must obtain permission from the property owner prior to operating their vehicle on the property owner’s property).

The Snowdog may also be operated on crown land, unless the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forests (MNRF) specifically prohibits public access to certain specific lands. Operators of the Snowdog must consult the MNRF to determine whether there are any restrictions in place which could prohibit operation of the vehicle on the land which the owner intends to operate the machine.

Thanks and please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Team Rapo on Jan 12, 2019, 08:24 PM
Just got back from a 4 day trip up north where there was still a decent amount of snow on the lake the first day, but nearing 40F temps on end of day 1 into 2 created slushy conditions.

What I learned from the trip. Just me with minimal gear and hard crusty snow, the sled had no problem getting to full RPM and full speed. With the snow pockets/ slush and more gear that I hauled for the rest of the group, it could not get to full speed. It just didn't have the power to get to full RPM and highest gear ratio.

Day 3 the temps dropped and Also, our group dropped from 8 guys with 2 wheelers and my track sled to  4 guys and just my track sled. So we loaded up the 2 magnum sleds in a chain behind the track sled and we all piled in with our gear. And no go. Just sat there and spun since the track sled was so light. We moved one of the guys and had him sit on the wood box on the track sled and we were able to start chugging along. The slush was all frozen from the high winds and temps dropping to 0F the night before.  We may have looked like a circus train but it just kept moving along about 1/2 speed at full throttle. I was amazed at how well it did with that much weight to drag around.

Overall I am very happy with it, but still want to change a couple things.

Option 1: Change gearing and keep the same motor setup which has a couple of downfalls. The jackshaft that I would need to increase the tooth count on the sprocket has no room to do so unless I notch out the tunnel, I have not measured how much room under the tunnel I have before hitting the track. I might not have any room to gain sprocket diameter at all. Secondly, the 6.5hp predator has no charging coil for powering a headlight, and it does not have electric start, not a deal breaker as it starts well pulling it by hand but would be nice to hit a button to start and go!

Option 2: Buy a 13hp Predator engine and gain power, charging capabilities and electric start. I would also have to buy a new torque converter as the shaft sizes are different. Keeping the same jackshaft sprocket gearing since the double HP should be able to keep the RPMs higher. Oddly the 13HP is governed at 3600RPM and the 6.5hp is 3800RPM per specs, but I expect it should still be able to hold full RPM under all loads.

Option 3: Try and sell the current track sled as is and then build version 2 this summer using everything I have learned from version 1. This would allow me to start with a newer chassis possibly with a gearbox with reverse. Newer chassis would have all suspension under /inside track vs current sled that has rear shocks outside the sled that is impeding handlebars form folding over the top of the current sled. Lastly put larger HP engine on new sled with electric start (just like option 2)

I will likely just run it the way it is currently for the rest of the season, unless I find the cash to do the upgrades above what I could sell the current sled for. Right now we have no snow on the ground at home so it will just sit for the time being....

I highly recommend the project if you have the tools to do so. I use the welder at work so until I buy my own I may not be pursuing option 3 as it has been a pain not being able to do that part at home on my free time.

Reading this post is basically a summary of everything I have learned as well. Including the wish for charging coil and electric start haha. Weight on the machine hahah yep, get a guy on there!
I’m sticking with my 208cc first build. It runs like a champ, start easy and pulls pulls pulls. Bender did it best with a widetrack. I won’t build another unless I found that kinda donor. Also my next one would use a comet 40 series! Reverse is a must!
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Jordang2330 on Mar 18, 2019, 04:18 PM
I've started my own build and happy with how it's coming about.

I bought a Duromax 16hp engine with electric start and a series 40 torque converter off amazon.  Also bought a very nice low milage '95 Polaris XLT for $500, and it has a new track on it.

At first I thought about just taking the tunnel, jackshaft and lowering the suspension but decided to make the frame and all.  It's a little front heavy at the moment, the 80lbs motor doesn't help, but I still have to add the rear handlebars and make a wood box to go in the back to keep all my gear in.

Thanks for all your help and pictures and videos I've found on here.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cv3XqFPG/IMG-20190311-012219116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv3XqFPG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZVJwjVB/IMG-20190312-020224850.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZVJwjVB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4fR0hpX/IMG-20190312-020639465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4fR0hpX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGGpxrqn/IMG-20190312-020650340.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGGpxrqn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhjFFqsF/IMG-20190311-012219116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhjFFqsF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mh6vB6pP/IMG-20190312-020224850.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mh6vB6pP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QKVvcpCN/IMG-20190312-020650340.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKVvcpCN)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: metalbender on Mar 18, 2019, 10:21 PM
Good work, keep the pics coming.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Jordang2330 on Aug 29, 2019, 02:10 PM
About 98% done. Just have to take care of a few minor issues, and she'll be ready for the winter.

16hp duromax engine, though thinking about a 10hp tillotson because it's 40lbs compared to the duromax 80#.
Used a 1995 Polaris Indy 500 for the snowmobile parts   Was able to use the disc brake set up from the snowmobile.  Should be around 17-20mph.


(https://i.postimg.cc/MXp0gJ1T/IMG-20190829-132434053-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXp0gJ1T)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fJ6x33pt/IMG-20190829-132445288-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJ6x33pt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JtY3LYQQ/IMG-20190829-132452116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtY3LYQQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/56HBN57W/IMG-20190829-132459575.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56HBN57W)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nj04M3fp/IMG-20190829-132508539.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj04M3fp)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: WelderMike on Aug 29, 2019, 05:25 PM
That turned out nice! I should have done the same but working so much no time for projects. Had to buy an actual Snowdog.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Jordang2330 on Aug 29, 2019, 05:31 PM
Thank you.  And I know all about having too many projects.  Definitely a learning experience.  Already making plans for a second one. 

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: chaumontriverguy on Aug 29, 2019, 05:56 PM
Thank you.  And I know all about having too many projects.  Definitely a learning experience.  Already making plans for a second one. 

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.
  it's the six million dollar snow dog lol ;)
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Garrett on Sep 09, 2019, 10:43 AM
About 98% done. Just have to take care of a few minor issues, and she'll be ready for the winter.

16hp duromax engine, though thinking about a 10hp tillotson because it's 40lbs compared to the duromax 80#.
Used a 1995 Polaris Indy 500 for the snowmobile parts   Was able to use the disc brake set up from the snowmobile.  Should be around 17-20mph.


Awesome build, I'll give you a couple thoughts from my build lessons. Stay with the 16hp, the extra hp is really nice when hooking up shacks in chains, multiple guys riding with you etc. Also, I wish I had an extra 40# of weight on my track sled for traction when I have a heavier load being pulled. As long as you aren't planning on lifting the machine for transport, I think the extra 40# wont hurt you. The extra power would be nice in slush too. my 6.5hp was lacking when I hit slush pockets, maybe 10hp would be enough but I plan on rebuilding with the 16hp also.

Depending on your transportation setup, build a hood/ cover for the engine. I built a slush shield for the front of my open trailer but still had significant salt spray/mist accumulation on the engine that lead to rusting and corrosion. I think if I had a hood or cover it would have made a big difference. Also I had a lot of powder flying around the engine when I was cruising during a snowstorm one day. The engine then sucked a bunch of that snow up into the air box, melted from the hot engine when I stopped to fish, froze up the carb when the engine cooled down and then left me stuck where I couldn't get it to run over idle. I still have to build a hood for mine this fall but for sure it will be better protected from that disaster I had. An aftermarket K&N style filter with filter sock may solve that completely compared to the stock box setup but I haven't decided if I want to do that mod if I end up upgrading engines.

I am also glad I had the full snow flap on the back,   Even with mine being full it still sprays a bunch of snow out the back. If you still have the one from the Polaris you may want to add it if lots of powder driving. Just my preference, might not be a problem for you. 
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Jordang2330 on Sep 23, 2019, 07:29 PM
I need to get my track sled up to my cabin.  There's a lady up there that does custom boat covers and stuff like that and I'm going to give it to her to put a thick canvas cover over the motor part with a Velcro flap for the gas tank.

And I have a full mid flap on the back of it, guess it doesn't snow in the pictures.

As for the weight, I'll just have to wait and see how it goes this winter.

I'm currently building another one with the 10hp engine and reverse, more storage space, bars that will flip over more so it's not 7' tall, and a few other minor tweaks.  We'll see which one I like better, then sell the other one.  This second one though is coming in cheap since I know what to do already, not so much trial and error.🤣
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Xtgraphics on Oct 30, 2019, 12:55 PM
This man knows best, I built mine from an old snowmobile chassis and I’ve got 5 sprockets in a box to show its trial and error/ figuring out.
Nice build Team Rapo
Can you tell me what size tube steel you used
Title: Re: Snow dog type machine build
Post by: Team Rapo on Oct 30, 2019, 09:14 PM
Thanks, it was fun to build and ever more to use. Can’t wait for ice.  I believe its 1.5” square tube for the frame that holds the engine. Went with 1’ for the handlebars.