the great leader debate

[rallye]

After dealing with bent-up , twisted and kinked wire leaders ( both braded  and single strand hard wire )  for years,  I read a few threads about how some of you thought that 30# flourocarbon was the ONLY way to go.  I fish in extremely clear watered reservoirs and I`m very concerned with  hardware visibility. I`ve even gone so far as to paint my treble hooks flat,olive-drab  paint just to reduce the hook shine. The flourocarbon did disappear well,  that I WAS happy about. It wasn`t  heard by everyone as unanimous but some thought it  ( flourocarbon )the best way to go .  Well........ thought I`d try it yesterday.....what have I got to lose, right?   First pike on promptly cut it clean ........ with almost NO pressure  !!!!!!      Yes,  we do have BIG pike out here in Colorado!     Guess my next question is about this new thin single strand stainless wire if`ve heard about  from many of you.  Does it kink or bend like the braided stuff??   Any specific `care ` issues ?  How `bout it`s visibility??  Will it knot ??  Is there a specific name brand that I should look for?  As usual, your comments are greatly appreciated.  I`d really like to hear from those of you who consistantly pull big pike from the ice.

[tree]

I just bought the kind of leader that you can tie. It has some steel under a coating. Can't remember the name of the stuff, but it does work well, albeit expensive. I bought the 30# stuff though it comes in lighter weight. I'm sure someone here will come up with the name of it. I'll post it if it comes to me. 

[METIPPIN]

I bought some its called tygear wire. Expensive stuff. I haven't used it yet but the counter person at LL Beans said it good stuff and to use a figure 8 knot instead of a cinch knot. ill give it a try this weekend.

I am not a big fan of steel leaders. I d rather have more action. Since switching back to Floro I have had more hits but have lost a few fish. Yozuri has a hybrid line that I have been useing and its pretty tough stuff.

[Lobes]

I have always just considered replaceing worn wire leaders as part of the routine. All tackle eventually gets worn out if it's used a lot. Leaders do the most frequently since their job is to take the most abuse

[WVBoy]

I guess a good question to ask is  "HOW BIG" are the pike where you are fishing? Where I fish we normally catch 4-7 pounders and some 10 pounders using fluoro or something of the sort in 30-50 lb. test and rarely but occasionaly get broke.Getting a break off now and again makes me wanna go back for more

[iceintheveins]

Rallye,


Where are you fishing? I'm from Colorado also. I have been catching some small ones at Crawford Reservoir this year. Have one one bite off on 12 pound fluorocarbon out of about 6 fish on tip ups. Colorado pike are TOUGH through the ice, aren't they. Seems to be since I switched to fluoro, I get more hits. Though you do always have to worry about the bite off boogieman. I have also used fireline before during open water and never had a bite off. I know they can bite through it though.

Tyler

[rallye]

I`m fishing Eleven Mile.  The pike I`ve lost have been over 20 lbs.  I`ve seen numerous `boomers` that I`m sure would exceed 25lbs. Had one of those `boomers` comming up thru the hole when he cut off.     When ya seen these babies come thru, the ole knee starts ta dance!!     A few hammerhandles appear from time to time but the average fish I see are usually 4 to 10 lbs.  Add to that  trout ( rainbows and Browns ) that are easily over 5 lbs. and  you can see things get a bit intense.    Saw a 5lb. plus rainbow trailing a stringer the other day.............looked like he had been `wearing` it for some time..........guess he can still eat.     Guess I`m going back to steel leaders.        

[minnow1]

Try Terminator Leaders that are made out of titanium.  They stretch but have the strength of steel with less diameter.

[rallye]

Minnow 0ne.............
      Is the `terminator` a single or braided type of wire........is it coated or uncoated ?  I will definately try to find some.  Does it come on a spool or is it a prefab type?  I do make up my own leaders..........does it knot and would Cabellas have it?   Thanks for your suggestion and yes, I guess I`ll be `changing out` more often.   The other method I`ve been reading about envolves only one treble hook  (vs the quick strike two hook ) which will definately take away that `cyborg look` of the bait. Keep the suggestions comming..........   8)

[oldfox]

Try American Fishing Wire's Surflon Micro Surpreme...I use 13# Camo...its tieable and seem to work great 

[TroutFishingBear]

rallye,
it all depends on how deep the pike gets it
I've caught 13 lb. pike on 6 lb. test, and 3-5 lb. pike on 2 lb. test. if the pike swallows, that's when he cuts off. If you hook him in the lip though, they are just like another fish if they are gonna break off or not. As for leader, I would stick with the floro, I too am from colorado and am plagued with fishing clear water as well. Its better to catch some pike and have a few breakoffs than to catch no pike at all (like happened everytime with wire leader.) I know wire doesn't seem much more visible to us, but the fishs' lack of interest with anything including wire have showed me otherwise.

[iceintheveins]

Well if your catching pike, stick with wire. It is scary to be using something else. But I just have no luck with wire out here. I might look into the really thin wire or the titanium.

Tyler

[winjammer]

Flourocarbon is just fine for leader material. Too many people use too much force on these fish when they are hooked. When you do get one they come right back to the hole and then make runs til they are tired. When they go to make their run just let them go. Keeping the line free of slack is the main part. Just let it run between your fingers and the fish will eventually stop then you can bring them back for another run.  Me and the guys I fish with use nothing but 30 lb. vanish. It's all about finesse. Don't horse them and you'll be fine. I've never lost one yet to bite off. I swear by it

[iceintheveins]

Agreed, the only one lost this year was close to the hole when more pressure was being applied. If your careful I think you will probably not lose them. But I am still going to look into thin, low vis wire.

Tyler

[northdease]

i bought some malin "boa no-kink" it was 18 bucks for thirty feet. i have only been out a few times since i started to use it. so far so good. it is titanium that you can tie although i use sleeves. you can bend it and it will bounce right back to where it came from. 30# test is same diameter as 4 or 6# mono. like i said really havent caught something of great size since i started to use it but so far i am pretty happy.

[iceintheveins]

Who all here has noticed a difference in amount of flags on fluoro or mono vs. wire? Seems that since I switched from wire to fluoro, I'm actually getting flags now. It's still slow, as pike fishing is tough in Colorado through the ice, but I got 5 flags and 6 flags on my two trips this year, none of them were false either. Landed 6 pike total this year. One bite off near the hole. All this on 12 pound P - Line fluorocarbon leader.

Tyler

[suckerbait]

Who all here has noticed a difference in amount of flags on fluoro or mono vs. wire? Seems that since I switched from wire to fluoro, I'm actually getting flags now. It's still slow, as pike fishing is tough in Colorado through the ice, but I got 5 flags and 6 flags on my two trips this year, none of them were false either. Landed 6 pike total this year. One bite off near the hole. All this on 12 pound P - Line fluorocarbon leader.

Tyler

Fished a very heavily fished body of water in Massachusetts yesterday. In Massachusetts we are allowed 5 lines. I had five tipups fishing the same shoreline that a group of four was fishing with 20 tipups. I caught 4 pike from 25 to 29 inches and two nice bass on fluorocarbon leaders. The guys fishing wire caught one small pickerel. In some areas it may not make a difference, but in the areas I fish I will only use fluorocarbon. I have a pike of 16.4 and a tiger musky of 12.8 hanging on my wall both caught on fluorocarbon leaders. I don't even carry wire leaders with me anymore. You do need to play the fish more especially around the hole.

[cracked_ice]

I know you all may laugh, but I wondering about the south bend invisi-leader.  I was thinking of trying these steel leaders because they dont have the shine of regular leaders.  I myself have found south bend products to be rather cheap, but I wonder...They are inexpensive so I may try them this weekend.  Anyway, if anyone has any experience with them I would sure like to know. They are much cheaper than buying a spool of flourocarbon line.

[iceintheveins]

Did you read my mind cracked ice? I have a couple of these, very thin and low vis, but only about 6" long, maybe not long enough. They seem to be strong. But they have a snap swivel on the end. Maybe if I slipped a treble on the back of the leader and snapped another on the swivel, maybe it would function as a quickstrike. Then most of the wire will be touching the bait and not hanging above it, so then maybe it won't matter. Maybe I could even run the leader through the bait somehow? Does this sound like an idea? Might be worth a try.

Tyler

[cracked_ice]

I like your thinking Mackdaddy.  If most of the leader is hidden by the bait, then visibility is not an issue.  I do like the idea of running the leader through the bait. My only worry would be if the pike grabs the whole thing and bites the line. I think I will try out a couple of different configurations this weekend.  I will let you know how that turns out.  If anything else strikes you (pun intended) Mackdaddy, let me know. 

[iceintheveins]

Unfortunately I won't be able to try it this year because all the pike lakes within reach of my home have unsafe ice now because of unseasonably warm conditions. Usually they are safe into Early March. So all I have left are my high elevation lake trout lakes.

Tyler

[cracked_ice]

Thats a bummer Mackdaddy...I am going to Stagecoach tommorow morning.  I am just going to hope for the best.  Hopefully there will be some action!

[iceintheveins]

Have you ever done well at Stagecoach for pike in the winter? I know it's tough like everywhere in Colorado, but I have heard that the points at the mouth of Morrison Cove hold some pig gators. Since you fish in Colorado like I do, I would suggest using heavy fluorocarbon leader, about 20 pound test. Use a whole dead anchovy about 7" long or a live waterdog if you can find it. Set yout tip up a little deeper this time of year, try around 20 feet first. If no flags within about an hour and a half, try shallower, around 10 feet deep. If no luck there either, set your line at about 30 feet. While you wait for a flag, I would suggest jigging for rainbows, fishing at about 15 - 20 feet of water. I think that small soft plastic jigs like shrimpos and ratsos work best, tipped with a waxworm or a small piece of nightcrawler. The pike will be around the bottom, and the rainbows can suspend at any depth, but are often on the bottom too. Try each level in the water column at five foot intervals every 4 minutes or so. Stagecoach has some hogs. I've seen pictures of 10 - 15 pound rainbows landed there every year. And you do have the chance of a pike hitting a trout jig. We caught a few this year at Crawford on panfish jigs, and a couple each trip on our tip ups, though we had 3 tip ups out cause we had three anglers. I would say pike fishing is best when you have some friends with you so you can have some extra lines.
Should you catch a big pike, try to release her. It's cool to keep a couple smaller pike under 25", actually good for the fishery so they don't become too abundant and start to harm the trout. They usually don't do it, no matter what people say. However it's possible, because at Spinney they did harm the trout population. Small pike taste good. Big pike don't, plus they have large amounts of mercury in their fat. Mercury is bad, bad stuff.

Tyler

[TroutFishingBear]

Good lucked crackedice! post a report!

[fishboy899]

I've caught pike and pickeral on both wire leaders and heavy flourocarbon.  I dont mind replacing wire leaders every trip if it means a better chance in not loosing a fish.  The only time that I use only flourocarbon is when I'm fishing a spot where I know I also have a good shot at a walleye.

[princecraft]

Has anyone out there made there own quick strike rigs out of mono. instead of wire? All the quick strike rigs that I have seen are made out of wire..

[iceintheveins]

I make quick strike rigs out of fluorocarbon. I slip on one number 8 treble and leave it free sliding. Then I tie a #8 on the end. This works really well. Number 8's are the best for the bait sizes I use, usually 4 - 7" anchovies. I usually put a split shot on the line above it, but I'm going to try without it, or internally weighting baits so I can see if pike won't drop it, cause i had a few drop the bait this year.

Tyler

[BUCKSKI]

That is the type of information Iam looking for. You Co. boys have similar problems. Don't want to fish wire like to catch walleyes too. Going to Gander tonite and see what they have. Will report back. Thank you keep the good info rolling in!!!

[rallye]

Well..............afte r all the votes are in..................  I`m still not convinced about the Flourocarbon but being the stubborn old coot that I am I`ll try it again in favor of the `all to visible ` wire. If I break off another one ............Flouro is toast.
 The story that gets my curiosity up now is the `hotdog` method........
 If I can`t catch fish on them I  can always eat the bait,which is more than Ican say for smelly, rotten old suckers.   

[rallye]

Mackdaddy............  I`ve heard many stories about `shrimpos` for trout bit can`t seem to locate who or where I can find them.  We do fish for big trout at ElevenMile and usually jig for trout while waiting for the `boomers` to show up.  Any suggestions where I can find `Shrimpos` and would you recommend colors of choice ( assuming there are different colors or flavors). I`m in the Denver metro area.........Arvada.  Thanks for your help and your suggestions from all you tight  liners.