IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: WalleyeHunter84 on Jan 28, 2015, 05:32 PM
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So I have been refilling propane for four years now and other than the fact I am afraid that I will blow myself up I love the savings yet I have a general question to ask other "re fillers"; after three or four fill ups (using 20lbs filling tank @70 degrees and 1lbs tanks at normal freezer temp) does anyone else notice that they overfill themselves? (normally the first time I refill a tank it only takes about 13-14 ounces or about 75% of the tank stated selling weight; then I have to refreeze and refill again to hit target weight). I have a steady flow of bottles from a near by factory and am pretty picky about what bottle I keep for another refill and very liberal on throwing away suspect bad tanks yet this year when refilling my empty tanks they all have been taking 18 ounces instead of the normal underfilled. Any thoughts; wisdom? Thanks
If you are against refilling propane please stay out of conversation, useful info only please.
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I'm noticing that newer Coleman 1lbers are filling underweight. These are the tanks w/ the plastic bottom. Somewhere I saw a video on filling the tanks & using bent needlenose pliers on the purge valve on top. Supposedly enables you to fill to the max. I also refill from a 30lb tank. I don't know if there is more pressure there or not.
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This is the method I am going to use this weekend. I will make sure I weigh a brand new factory tank to find out what the weight should be and then weigh the newly filled ones and should be no problems.
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that's cool I might have to start doing that to save some $$$$$$$$$
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either your big tank is warmer than normal or small tanks are colder it makes a big difference even a few more degrees difference the right temp will give you more than off the shelf
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I've been refiling for a couple of years and love the savings. On a side note to maintain the tanks I also put 1 drop of machine oil right down the valve opening after each time I empty a small tank and let it sit at room temperature for a day or two before refilling. This has reduced the number of bad or leaking valves to zero this year. Be safe..
Ross
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Ive been refilling for about 7-8 years and i put the 20lb bottle near heater vent for a bit to warm it up good then put 1lb bottle in freezer for about an hour...fills em right up...when the 20lb bottle gets low it wont fill the 1lb as well...so, put 1lb bottle back in freezer for an hour an fill again, works great
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I don't understand why anyone does the chilling and warming of tanks. Simply use a bent forecept, and pull the release valve to fill the 1lb tanks. Check with a scale. Hard to beat.
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I've been refiling for a couple of years and love the savings. On a side note to maintain the tanks I also put 1 drop of machine oil right down the valve opening after each time I empty a small tank and let it sit at room temperature for a day or two before refilling. This has reduced the number of bad or leaking valves to zero this year. Be safe..
Ross
Thanks, no issues with the oil making its' way into heating equipment and clogging stuff?
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Thanks for the info so far, the dry forceps is a new method for me; sounds rather risky yet makes sense that there is no spark outside but I am always afraid of static electricity igniting the leaking propane.
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Have used the needle nose/ relief method a couple times and experienced overfill accompanied by later bleed-off as the bottle warmed. Just a cautionary comment. I prefer an extra bottle or two under filled for safety reasons.
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Thanks, no issues with the oil making its' way into heating equipment and clogging stuff?
Nope thats why I said "1" drop and then let it sit.
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I have cooled the bottles and filled with tank at room temperature. I do not seem to get completely full fill. I have not tried to cool the bottle again though. Here's a question. If you had a 1/2 full tank wouldn't your bottles only get 1/2 full since the fill level in the tanks is based on pressure??
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I always weigh the new, full 1 lb. tanks and write the weight on the bottom with a sharpie. If refill weight exceeds that, I bleed a little off with the release valve. They will all hold a little more than a pound to allow for expansion.
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I use the scale method with a hose and valve from a big 500 gallon tank. I set the empty 1 lb bottle on the scale with hose attached and fill the bottle to 16 oz of added weight. But, rather than break the seal of the valve with forceps or needle nose, I use a car tire valve stem tool to loosten the valve until air bleeds off until I get 16 oz in the tank then screw valve back in the same number of turns I loosened it.
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If anyone is in the Eau Claire or Antigo area or in between and you want a bunch of one time used 1# tanks let me know. My dad saved a bunch of them
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I'm not against refilling propane at all but I can not for the life of me understand why people do it. My 11lb bulk tank is one of the best purchases I ever made for ice fishing. One fill will last me an entire month of fishing the weekends. It's the equivalent of 22 of the 1lb green bottles and it costs me less than $9 to fill.
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I'm not against refilling propane at all but I can not for the life of me understand why people do it. My 11lb bulk tank is one of the best purchases I ever made for ice fishing. One fill will last me an entire month of fishing the weekends. It's the equivalent of 22 of the 1lb green bottles and it costs me less than $9 to fill.
Because my 11 lb tank weighs 13.6 empty plus 11 lbs of propane is 24 or so lbs. I can fill a 20 lb tank locally for something like 12 dollars. I can take the first 4 lbs off that 20 lb tank (I imagine I could get more but 4 at a time is enough for me) and refill 4 little green bombs, which would normally cost me about $10/11 for the 4 if I find a good price which is usually at a walmart. So I just recouped almost all my cost of the 20 lb fill but still have 16 or so lbs of propane to run the smoker or better yet for the wife to brew beer. I can pack 3 little green bombs out on the ice a total weight of about 6 lbs and normally don't use more than 1 a day for heating. Considering that I have to walk onto most if not all the ice I fish and could be dragging gear through deep snow, the less weight the better. My only real regret at this time is I have a big buddy heater, wish I would have gotten a regular buddy for the bulk and weight savings as I really don't need the high setting on the big buddy.
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Well fellas, I'm against refilling 1 lb ers but I'm not going to preech to any of you. You all can make up your own minds but I do know a few things about condensable gases so hopefully this can answer some of your questions. So here we go... No matter what size tank you have, as long as there is liquid propane left in the tank, the pressure will depend on it's temperature. Higher temp= higher pressure. Lower pressure = lower temperature. In order to have flow from one vessel to another there must be a pressure difference. This is why you cool the tank to be filled and heat the tank your filling with. The higher the pressure difference the quicker it will fill. Also for you fellas who can't get a full fill on the first try, that is because the propane is boiling off in the lower pressure tank that's being filled. When this happens there is a quick temp change. Before you know it the tank is close to the same temp as your filler tank which also means the pressures equal out and flow stops. If you cool the tank to be filled again, it will take more. I'm glad most of you are weighing the tanks. That's very important. To answer another one of your questions: no it does not matter if you have a filler tank at half full. As long as you have liquid and vapor in the tank, it is considered to be at saturated temperature which the laws of physics mentioned above will apply. Higher temp means higher pressure and vice versa. Note::: when all liquid in the vessel has been evacuated, the remaining vapor is no longer saturated and follows a different set of gas laws. Hence: time to refill your filler tank!! Good luck guys. Hope this helps. I still think you guys are crazy for fillin them tanks but to each, his own! Ha ha!
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I'm not against refilling propane at all but I can not for the life of me understand why people do it. My 11lb bulk tank is one of the best purchases I ever made for ice fishing. One fill will last me an entire month of fishing the weekends. It's the equivalent of 22 of the 1lb green bottles and it costs me less than $9 to fill.
Simply put the green bombs are easier to handle & haul. Hence why they charge such a high price. I have a 5lb & an 11lb tank that I use, but still prefer to refill and use 1lb tanks.
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So I have been refilling propane for four years now and other than the fact I am afraid that I will blow myself up I love the savings yet I have a general question to ask other "re fillers"; after three or four fill ups (using 20lbs filling tank @70 degrees and 1lbs tanks at normal freezer temp) does anyone else notice that they overfill themselves? (normally the first time I refill a tank it only takes about 13-14 ounces or about 75% of the tank stated selling weight; then I have to refreeze and refill again to hit target weight). I have a steady flow of bottles from a near by factory and am pretty picky about what bottle I keep for another refill and very liberal on throwing away suspect bad tanks yet this year when refilling my empty tanks they all have been taking 18 ounces instead of the normal underfilled. Any thoughts; wisdom? Thanks
If you are against refilling propane please stay out of conversation, useful info only please.
When you refreeze them, you have to manually control how much propane goes into a refrozen 1lb tank. When "I have one that is at about 14oz, I'll re-frreze it, then hook it back up and give it about a 3 to 5 second burst from the 20lb tank. I'll take it back off an weight it and it will be a 16 oz.
You can't put a refrozen 1lb tank back on the 20lb tank and let it go until the propane stops flowing on its own. You will over-fill it every time by doing that. This is the reason I tell guys to always make sure the 1lb tank is completely empty before refilling.
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how long does it take to fill a 1lb tank?
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$10 for a 4 pack is $2.50 per bottle. I fish around 20 days per winter. That's $50 per season to stay warm AND safe. If I couldn't afford that, I would find a different hobby. Or maybe work a half day more per year. ( I use a ten pounder and a hose usually ) just sayin'..... Please be careful with that crap. I've seen 2 cases that didn't end so well.
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There's a kid on youtube that went to GREAT lengths to try to get a green bomb to blow up when he shot it w/ his .223. If I hadn't seen it for my self, I would not have believed HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS! There are so many negative nellies on here professing how dangerous just filling them is, and here's a guy TRYING to blow them up, and has to go to extraordinary means to get them to even burn when shot!!!!!
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There's a kid on youtube that went to GREAT lengths to try to get a green bomb to blow up when he shot it w/ his .223. If I hadn't seen it for my self, I would not have believed HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS! There are so many negative nellies on here professing how dangerous just filling them is, and here's a guy TRYING to blow them up, and has to go to extraordinary means to get them to even burn when shot!!!!!
I'm sure all those negative nellies also pull into full service gas stations and have a "professional" fill the vehicle they drive with fuel.......
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how long does it take to fill a 1lb tank?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3SmiutUY6o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3SmiutUY6o)
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I save around $75 a season refilling,no it don't break the bank,but I feel it's free money.but I don't refill mine drinking beer next next to the fire smoking a cig :o ???
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$10 for a 4 pack is $2.50 per bottle. I fish around 20 days per winter. That's $50 per season to stay warm AND safe. If I couldn't afford that, I would find a different hobby. Or maybe work a half day more per year. ( I use a ten pounder and a hose usually ) just sayin'..... Please be careful with that crap. I've seen 2 cases that didn't end so well.
After an extensive internet I found only 1 case of the small tanks exploding and dumb old Stanley was smoking when refilling the tank. If you know of 2 such incidents please en-lighten the rest of us with FACTS not fiction or hearsay. Its big $$$ selling those small 1lb tanks with $0.21 of propane in them and a $1.00 tank. My money is on the manufactures pushing the dangers of this. I you follow proper safety you should not have any issue's.
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;D :tipup: Boils down to personal choice! Make every effort to be informed of the facts. Make your choice based on your interpretation of those facts and move on!
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Considering that I have to walk onto most if not all the ice I fish and could be dragging gear through deep snow, the less weight the better.
Well, that makes sense. I thought everyone was fat and lazy like me? LOL! If I had to walk I would not haul that tank around I would be refilling the little ones too.
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Just refilled 8 bottles at .75 cents each for as total of $6
The local bait shop gets $ 5.99 each plus tax, which would total $50.80 for eight bottles.
Yes, of course you want to be safe and careful when doing this and it sounds like everybody is.
That's why I have never heard a legitimate report of anyone, anywhere, at anytime, hurting themselves refilling one pounders.
I am always told by someone, that they will produce the newspaper article to prove me wrong... been waiting for over five years now. :whistle:
Keep in mind a guy with three first names drinking a beer, smoking a stogie and refilling a tank may not count.
Good Luck All :tipup:
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Just refilled 8 bottles at .75 cents each for as total of $6
The local bait shop gets $ 5.99 each plus tax, which would total $50.80 for eight bottles.
Yes, of course you want to be safe and careful when doing this and it sounds like everybody is.
That's why I have never heard a legitimate report of anyone, anywhere, at anytime, hurting themselves refilling one pounders.
I am always told by someone, that they will produce the newspaper article to prove me wrong... been waiting for over five years now. :whistle:
Keep in mind a guy with three first names drinking a beer, smoking a stogie and refilling a tank may not count.
Good Luck All :tipup:
Here's the 1 and ONLY I could find. Poor Stanley did in his wife- so is it really an accident..just saying ;D
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/1-dead-1-injured-in-polk-county-garage-explosion/
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Interesting article CGE. IMHO, there was something other than the tank "rupturing" that caused the explosion. Like I said above, I saw the guy on YT shooting the heck out of them, and the ONLY way he got them to even burn, was by getting a pretty good fire going "near" the tank and then shooting it, and even then, it only burned but NEVER exploded! He tried a small flame near the tank, but the escaping gas kept putting it out!!!!!
Also, if HE was the one filling it when it ruptured/exploded, how come his old lady croaked and he didn't???? Ol Judge Judy always says "if it doesn't make sense, it ain't true"!
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I do not have any trouble over filling 1 pounders. (Its in the orientation of the 1lb to horizontal) Most of my refills need some bleed off. I use the non-scientific 'shake the bottle' method. Keep a factory fill and shake the newly refilled cylinder to compare the level to the new one. Kudos to those that weigh the new cylinder and record that weight.
I find a great paradox here. Mr Buddy will recommend and sell an inline filter to protect the heater from dirt in the LP. No one complains about plugging up the heaters internals with refills. I do not see where many use a filter to clean the LP during the refill process.
Now the disclaimer; "It is against Federal Law to transport refilled disposable LP cylinders across state line."
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I find a great paradox here. Mr Buddy will recommend and sell an inline filter to protect the heater from dirt in the LP. No one complains about plugging up the heaters internals with refills. I do not see where many use a filter to clean the LP during the refill process.
My understanding of this is that the propane you get in bulk is not as refined as the 1lb cans and does a number on the basic black rubber hoses. Those hoses lose their integrity and start to break down and that's what doesn't play nice with the heater, not the propane itself. I've been running my Buddy heater off of a 20lb tank for years without any problems and it's unfiltered, but I have the green hose specifically for this purpose and am not using a black rubber hose. You can use the black hoses but you need to have a filter. If you use the green hose you don't.
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I find a great paradox here. Mr Buddy will recommend and sell an inline filter to protect the heater from dirt in the LP. No one complains about plugging up the heaters internals with refills. I do not see where many use a filter to clean the LP during the refill process.
The filter is not for "dirt in the LP", it is for "deposits" that are produced from "high pressure" in the black hoses! If you transfer LP from a bulk to a green bomb, there is no hose involved, ergo, no chance for hose contamination. Having said this, I regularly fill my 5 & 10# tanks from 20s, and I do use a 5' black hose, w/o any filter. I have not had any problem doing this, and I'm not worried because it takes all of a couple minutes to complete the fill, so the time the hose is under high pressure is nothing compared to running the heater all day....for days....under the same high pressure.
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I do not have any trouble over filling 1 pounders. (Its in the orientation of the 1lb to horizontal) Most of my refills need some bleed off. I use the non-scientific 'shake the bottle' method. Keep a factory fill and shake the newly refilled cylinder to compare the level to the new one. Kudos to those that weigh the new cylinder and record that weight.
I find a great paradox here. Mr Buddy will recommend and sell an inline filter to protect the heater from dirt in the LP. No one complains about plugging up the heaters internals with refills. I do not see where many use a filter to clean the LP during the refill process.
Now the disclaimer; "It is against Federal Law to transport refilled disposable LP cylinders across state line."
That applies to commercial purposes, not private use. If I refill them and transport them somewhere to sell, then that's where the Federal law applies.