Author Topic: Line weight and Perch...Does it matter? (Read 10664 times)

Jam_Jam · « **on:** Nov 24, 2003, 01:37 PM »

I'm wondering about the effect of line weight/diameter/visibility on perch. Are they much more sensitive to this than other fish and could this factor increase catch rates substantially....I'm talking +50% by going down a few pounds or to a smaller diameter? I was out at a lake last friday and there were lots of perch showing on the Vex and coming up sniffing the bait but I simply could not get them to bite consistently...or barely at all. I tried flashy stuff, flies, maggots, worms, minnow heads, dead sticking and jigging different ways and used a Thill bobber to detect very small bites and the only thing that produced anything at all was a yellow 1/32 oz jig with a peice of worm. I threw everything at them and still only manage about 6 fish in about 8hrs fishing. All I could think was that they are either super picky about what they are taking (zoned in on one thing that I didn't match successfully) or my line was too visable...from what I read it doesn't really seem like perch have "off" days (at least not to the degree that other fish have) and I don't think it was that because I've had similar experiences at the same place before although I had written those times off because they were short trips and I didn't experiment as much so I didn't want to draw conclusions. The fish were also coming right up to the bait fairly quickly and definitely seemed interested till they got closer. I was using 6lb flourocarbon which I thought would be fine and has worked on everything I've gone for up till now ie. whitefish, trout etc. The water wasn't gin clear but I'd say it was relatively clear. Also, does anyone find the line makes a bigger difference in different lighting conditions? It was relatively overcast and there was 6" of snow cover on the ice so i would have thought visibility would not have been so much of issue but maybe someone has found that low light makes things worse? From the few fish I have kept from this place I deduced that they are likely foraging for chronomid type larvae/worms (tried a few of those flies) and I found a small shrimp/scud or two as well (didn't try a scud fly but I will next time). I don't really think they are zoned in on one thing or too picky about the actual food though given that the thing I did get bites and catch fish on didn't look anything like what was in their bellies. To add a bit more background information...I don't believe baitfish composes any of their diet in this lake. Anyone with suggestions as to what my problem could be feel free to theorize...

Polar · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 24, 2003, 02:55 PM »

The 6lb test your using is what I fish for eyes.Perch I use 2lb test.

Icenutter · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 24, 2003, 02:58 PM »

I use Fireline on all my tip-ups and I tie on 4 or 2lb leaders when I am fishing for perch and crappie. If I go fishing for toothy critters I don't have to re-wrap my tip-ups. All my jigging rods are equiped with 4 and 2 lb test.

mngonefishing · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 24, 2003, 06:56 PM »

I covered up my hole to reduce the light last dec. when i was fishing. this was only when i was site fishing or in shallow water. I like fire line for ice fishing. if the fish get picky i may use 2lb line on the end (say the last two feet)

Trevor · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 08:44 AM »

Jam Jam,

Sounds like you were on the right track by frequently changing your presentation. I am a firm believer in ultralight tackle for perch. I think light line significantly increases you catch rate. Problem is I tend to sacrifice expensive lures as pike are often an incidental catch.

When you find fish looking, but not taking the key is to downsize. The best thing I have found for ultra finnicky perch is a #8 frostee tipped with a single maggot and fished on light line. Slowing your jigging action is also key.

If after downsizing you find them still unwilling. Then you need to move until you find biters. I think too many anglers are reluctant to move when they are seeing fish on the flasher. But if they are not willing to take then you have to leave them.

Also, perhaps you were more successful than you realize. I have fished eight hours many times and caught 0 fish. Frequently changing your presentation may have allowed you moderate success when the angler reluctant to use anything besides his favorite lure may have gone fishless on a slow day...

Trevor

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 09:11 AM »

It was just frustrating because I have heard of +50 fish days for people there and I believe it from what I saw on the finder. I moved a fair bit but hopefully next time I'll be able to drive on so I'll be even more mobile. I'm going to look for some 1 or 2lb test leader as well because pike aren't a big issue at this place. I'm also going to focus on scuds as the bait...just can't see them being able to resist that if it mimics natural food.

Next weekend I make my attempt at Jumbo's:)

Trevor · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 09:26 AM »

I fished perch on saturday, and I was in a similar situation. Lots on the flasher but very inactive. They were put down because of the coldfront. I don't know if it affected you guys down there. But on Friday it started dipping down and was -29 celcius by Saturday morning. I find perch are always less active when heading into a coldfront. Wait until the barometer is on the rise and I'm sure you'll get one of those 50+ perch days. So long as you're willing to move and experiment with various presentations you can't lose.

The light line not only works well because it's less visible, it also allows the tiny jigs to work to their full potential. You'll find heavier line inhibits their action. I wouldn't recommend you go as light as 1lb, unless the situation really warrants. I use 3lb Micro Ice which seems to have a really good strength to diameter ratio. Also, if you're going to buy light line, don't cheap out.

Get yourself a good sensitve panfish rod. I use a 24" light Genz rod for perch. Hook a ten inch perch and it feels like a monster. Ultralight tackle really improves the fun factor as well as catches more fish...

Trevor

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 10:12 AM »

Aaaaah ha! We definitely had the cold front down around Calgary although I think it was a high pressure system as the sky was pretty clear and there was no snow or wind or anything. Now that you mention it I have found that weather to produce the worst for me. It was -17c and partly cloudy but calm on Friday when I was perch fishing and -26c and totally sunny clear and calm on Saturday and I had a very slow day for lakers as well. I thought perch weren't as affected by weather patterns but I guess I'll have to pay attention a little more. I do feel a little better knowing I wasn't the only one having a slow day.

I generally find that things seem to heat up just before and during a snow event so I guess you'd say when the barameter is on the fall....not on the way back up. Have you found this? I love being all warm in the shack catching fish while the snow is flying:) Makes you feel kinda bad for the poor suckers left out in the cold without a shanty...or NOT

Trevor · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 11:06 AM »

Perhaps I've got it backassward but I have found fish to be most active just after the snow. Seems I have had best luck when barometric pressure is rising or stable. Well, whatever the case a coldfront will definitely turn them off.

I gave it four hours on Saturday and came home with two. I did however manage to get a pike near the hole on the 3lb Micro Ice. I cut my first hole of the day over 18 ft and dropped in the transducer. I marked fish right away. I dropped my lure in the hole and the perch moved up to it, then they suddenly vanished. I reeled up frantically as I knew a pike was likely nearby and didn't want to sacrifice the lure. Too late, he followed it up and nailed it about ten feet below the ice. I managed to get him near the hole. He swam by on his side against the bottom of the ice and his girth literally spanned the 8-1/4" hole. That was the last I seen of him and my little Northland forage minnow spoon. Thought I was in for hot action, but things were pretty slow after that...

Trevor

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 11:31 AM »

Trevor I think my findings go against what most people say so I wouldn't worry

I think I'll start keeping a fishing diary just to see if I can relate success to the barometer but my best days seem to be the good snowy ones. I just can't remember too many clear sunny calm days when I had good success although perhaps that weather has been better for pike. I do think barometric pressure is the single biggest factor during ice season so it'd probably be worth it to map success against pressure so I know what to focus on during a given weather pattern. I generally fish for trout so perhaps they react differently to the changes than perch, pike and walleye etc. Time will tell.

I started fishing friday by about 9:30 and got a small perch right away in 25' of water and thought it'd be a hot day. I then went a little deeper right away 40' (hoping that'd be where the bigger ones were) and marked more fish right away so i set up my shack all excited and fished there till noon. Talk about frustrating, I saw lots come up to the bait continuously but didn't catch anything from that hole. I moved and caught a few more small ones right away back in 25' of water then not much else till 4pm even though I moved lots trying different depths and saw fish at almost every hole. I shall avenge myself this weekend...or at least thats the plan. How far north do you fish Trevor? North of Edmonchuk?

alpinehigh · « **Reply #10 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 11:44 AM »

I too have my own theory about ice fishing and weather. I usually find when I'm hungrier the fish are hungrier. Some mornings I wake up and not hungry at all and can go all day without eating. Other days I wake up and I am just starving. These days I go fishing and usually works pretty good for me.
Also right before a big weather change is a hot time for me but it sucks getting stuck in a blizzard.

Trevor · « **Reply #11 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 11:55 AM »

Jam Jam, I live about 75km northeast of Edmonton. I almost always drive north or northeast to go fishing. I like to get as far from the major center as possible. Seems like you encounter less idiots that way. I normally drive to lakes about 1 to 2 hours away. That way I'm getting out of the zone of a comfortable day trip from Edmonton. This is if I'm targeting fish other than trout. For trout I fish much closer 5min to 1/2 hour.

I recall the last time I fished a lake close to the city. Now I realize this could happen anywhere, but I had just gotten on the lake and was getting organized. This guy comes screaming up on a snowmobile. Staggers off the thing, reaches into his jacket and pulls out a flask. The guy takes a long drink then begins shaking his head and stomping his foot on the ice. Guess it was good stuff. He then offers me a drink. Now I'm not opposed to occasionally indulging but I wasn't about to drink this slob's saliva. He then started slurring about how he was a pro and was going to teach me to fish. He picks up my hand auger and starts trying to drill a hole, well my hand auger has offset handles, you should have seen the drunk trying to figure that out. Then he looks at the depth finder and asks "What the hell is that?" Then he decides he is going to look in my tackle box to choose a lure for me to use. If I wasn't so dumbfounded by what was happening the guy would have been punched out at this juncture. Anyway, I humour the guy and tie on his lure of choice. When he started insisting upon how I jig the lure, that is when I decided I couldn't take it anymore. I finally let the four letter words flow. Luckily he staggered back to his machine and sped off down the lake.

This ranks up there with one of the most unpleasant experiences I have had while ice fishing. Of course I had to laugh thinking back on it. Makes me wonder how many guys are out there ripping around on those machines wasted...

Needless to say I avoid the most crowded lakes after that experience...

Trevor

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #12 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 01:18 PM »

I am the same way with crowds. Unfortunately its a little tougher to get away from the crowds down south but its not too bad. I enjoy fishing with the buds but still end up fishing solo most of the time because of logistics and everyone else being busy with other stuff.

Never fails that as soon as you catch one (specially when fishing alone) there is at least a few people others around who think the only fish in the lake are under you. That or some guy comes along who is annoying as heck and won't leave ya to some peace and quiet. I like my shanty because at least it offers a refuge (and hiding spot for my wobbly pop:) even if there are people around. I also fish an out of the way spots even if it means a few less fish...I leave the city to get away from the crowds

We're hoping to get up Lac La Biche way this year which will be very cool...I just wish I could fish an area like that every weekend....5 hours one way though ouch!

I think I'm going to do an overnighter down at Mcgregor lake this weekend. Gotta give my new hard sided shanty a good test in the cold. Did I mention I'm a diehard

Cheers dude

Trevor · « **Reply #13 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 01:51 PM »

Cool, think I might fish Lac La Biche this weekend. Was going to last weekend but circumstances didn't allow. Always love fishing that area...

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #14 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 02:40 PM »

If ya go send me a private message here and let me know how ya did if you don't mind. I need something to get us pumped up about our trip.

Trevor · « **Reply #15 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 02:44 PM »

Will do...

vancouvercanuck · « **Reply #16 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 03:27 PM »

Jam Jam, I believe you do need smaller line. It can't hurt can it? Smaller jigs too. Every little bit helps when trying to catch those finicky fish. Good thing I had ya changing your bait all the time eh? You finally put a piece of worm on and bam........ahhh loooooook, a fish. No problem bud anytime.

P.S. Saturday night Canucks 5 Flames 0 Me gunna get drunke.

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #17 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 03:56 PM »

Perhaps better fishing partners would be the ticket

You certainly didn't show me anything by example hehehe.

You better not use drinking as an excuse to miss out on Sunday either ya punk!

Nuke Ab · « **Reply #18 on:** Nov 25, 2003, 11:10 PM »

Jam Jam, hey I am also from the calgary area, would you mind sharing a few perch spots in the area? Not specifics but a few lakes that hold a few nice fish. Have you ever fished Badger for percas? I've heard a few stories, can you confirm? Maybe we'll cross paths this winter. Thanks.

NUKE

Fat Boy · « **Reply #19 on:** Nov 26, 2003, 01:02 AM »

Trevor, you hit the nail on the head! I was going to write a loonnnggg post on this but you pretty much said it all...

...light line, 3 lb. or less test... downsize... for me, downsizing to one or 2 size 16 Marmooska jigs rigged with one maggot could get any perch to hit, even the most finicky. To me, I use size 8's when the fish are aggressive! Regional thing???

Only thing that I might add is that if you are fishing over clouds of inactive fish, remember that spot and return to it during lower light conditions, but if it's the middle of the day you gotta move and find aggressive feeding fish. Schools of feeding perch move and feed where the bait is and lures are imitations, not the real thing. So, if there isn't any bait around, the fish aren't feeding, and they are curious about what you're dropping down to them. Find the bait, the feeding frenzy, and drop your lure down when they can't seem to tell the difference. Think about where that area may be, perhaps new some sort of structure or area that you've caught them before in the day time, a grassy flat or weedline for example, but keep moving. If all else fails, go back to that other spot when the sun falls and check it out. Maybe the bait activity in that area will increase and the fish biting activity will too...it often does.

Also, bright sunny skies, think deeper flats...

...man, I'm so jealous of you Canadians and Alaskans that you're out on the ice I can just simply puke...but hope you're havin' fun. I can't wait for our ice to show up...it'll be about 3 more weeks or so. Tight lines!

Trevor · « **Reply #20 on:** Nov 26, 2003, 07:10 AM »

Thanks for the tip kevin, never thought about heading back to inactive schools once I've left. Makes sense though.

Also, I think when it comes to determining how deep to find perch on those bright, sunny days that amount of snow cover is also a factor...

grumpymoe · « **Reply #21 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 09:30 AM »

just some observations from last winter-fished one lake with completely clear view down to 10'---on numerous days the action was hot and heavy-the next day the perch would surround the bait and just look at it. no amount of jigging or change in presentation would seem to persuade a bite. however by moving up 1 2 feet above these inactive fish i would get several aggressive perch to bite.interestingly, there were numerous cruisebys of large northerns and i believe the perch would become extremely cautious about feeding-i would suspend a 8" husky jerk about 4 feet below the ice and after several slow passes, the northerns would take the husky and the perch bite would slowly return. it seems the presence of predator fish as well slows active feeding-has anyone else out there experienced this and tried the husky jerk?

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #22 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 09:52 AM »

Not sure about the predators part but I did find that the fish that bit that day did so after I raised the bait off the bottom a couple of feet...I thought maybe they thought they were missing the boat with the bait leaving so they were pressured to bite. Just a stupid theory $:-\$

Nuke AB I am not really a kiss and tell fisherman sorry. I really have no perch hot spots to tell of anyways so don't fret too much

You can find the same info I have handy at the moment by getting the alberta fishing guide from the store. Perch fishing is kind of a new side thing for me so I'm just getting to know areas. A few places to consider may be Pine lake, Gull, Sylvan etc. Unfortunately, it seems most places near Calgary have been worked over or don't even have perch so your looking at driving hours to get to a respectable spot. Hopefully Lac La Biche area will be my big perch trip of the year.

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #23 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 11:53 AM »

Hey Jam Jam, I usually catch all my fish at Mystery Lake, but sometimes at Lake X! Last year I fished a few times at NOYB Bay! LOL

grumpymoe · « **Reply #24 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 01:46 PM »

another factor i think we tend to overlook is the moon cylce---i've tried many times summer and winter and just before the full moon the action slows next to zero 8)

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #25 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 03:41 PM »

Mr Seaguar you had better cough up those lake names or I'm gonna beat'em out of ya with a frozen Mackeral!

Just curious if you give up locals or do you think I'm in the norm as far as keeping things fairly quiet?

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #26 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 06:06 PM »

This is my policy: If it is a popular lake tht is well known in general with many fishing spots, say maybe a 3000 acre lake, I tell which lake but dont generally get more specific. If pressed, I will ask defensively, "You want money for bait, too?"

I will tell spots to people I can trust not to tell everyone. I just hate taking people to my spots and show up two weeks later to find them there.

I do enjoy taking folks to my spots if they return the favor. Thats the best actually.
If Im fishing small lakes that cant handle pressure, I don tell nothing, sometimes county is hard to get out of me. But Ill take you if you want to drive.

To be honest, I have very little trouble with my buddies. I have learned to pick friends by making sure they are trustworthy. Diehards are a lot better at keeping secrets than fairweather fisherman. In my past experience.

Nuke Ab · « **Reply #27 on:** Nov 27, 2003, 07:12 PM »

JJ no worries, I'm the same way! Just doin' a little fishin'!
I've fished those lakes in LLB( kinard, blacket etc.) You'll do fine. The last time I was up that way we couldn't keep the snakes off the tip ups and the walleye bite was slow...... that's being kind! But great country, a long drive for perch though LOL. Good luck!
As far as light line goes, two pound on a small ultralight rod is the only way to fish seriously for perch and what a blast!

Jam_Jam · « **Reply #28 on:** Nov 28, 2003, 09:33 AM »

Nuke can't blame you for trying but I have to admit you hit up the wrong guy for good info...I have little perch info at this point. Maybe we could hook up and split cost on a road trip sometime. I'm heading south for a camping/fishing trip this weekend but have to go solo as nobody else is free....seems too common lately. Haven't decided on the final destination yet but I'm just pumped to be getting out once again. Trying out the new shanty overnight will be cool too...I'll be reading in my sleeping bag at night while fishing for burbot and walleye

Gotta love it!

Mr Seaguar I too am not too worried about talking about common spots but its those one's that you work long and hard to find and figure out that I have a problem giving up. I've caught a bit of heat for keeping one place quiet and requesting secrecy but I know the alternative would be to have the place overrun with people and the fishery would go down quickly so it doesn't really bother me. Once its gone/overfished apologies mean little. I'll stick to my guns when I feel its necessary but I'll definitely take someone to a good spot if I know they will respect my terms. I can honestly say I enjoy watching others catch fish (specially newbies) as much as catching them myself.

I feel for all out American brothers and sister who still have a month till first ice! We had out first day out Nov 11 and will be driving on the ice within a few weeks;D

Mr.Seaguar · « **Reply #29 on:** Nov 28, 2003, 10:01 AM »

I would actually be icefishing this very minute but i am at my parents who live well south of me and there is no ice here and generally they have a very short ice season anyway. Will maybe make it out Sunday. Next weekend will probably make an overnighter for perch crappie and walleye.
Perch are very popular in this part of the world also, but they are also the most common. Spots for them are prety easy to find. But bigger fish are sometimes harder to locate. I take people fishing sometimes but newbies are harder to find. I have taken a few for there first trips but never anyone who became ardent afterwards. I have 'rekindled' the flame in a couple guys. And one guys wife left him so he said he plans on going every weekend he doesnt have the kids. Should be a great season once I get home and get rolling.

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Author Topic: Line weight and Perch...Does it matter? (Read 10664 times)

Jam_Jam

mngonefishing

Jam_Jam

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grumpymoe

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