1 lb LP tanks wont refill

[gasman707]

I don't know G-man personally, but I often take his submissions as "the other side of the coin" perspective....... a bit of rational thinking, if you will. I never took his comments as anything other than being informative, and helpful.

Your are correct g-man, it is one thing to blow myself up, but if my actions put others in danger, then it certainly justifies a re-think on my part.

I for one appreciate the g-mans input.....he gets me thinking about things differently....a different perspective, and that's never a bad thing. I just get a tad hot when good intentions result in mandatory regulations that seem out of proportion to the overall risk.

Thanks for all the info g-man!!!!  I appreciate it  cuz it gets me thinking.

NO, THANK YOU MT-Ed!!! Finally someone who gets it!
 If I get 1 person too just think twice, all of this is worth it!

[gasman707]

This subject gets beat like a dead horse several times per year pro's and con's. But I will maintain that you are more at risk of getting injured filling your lawn mower with gasoline than you are refilling 1# tanks with propane.

 
 We're still beating that horse and it's on the plate!

 If it's safer than filling a lawnmower,
Why do they evacuate an entire neighborhood for a small propane leak?  (Had this happen, firetrucks and all. The fireman looked like the keystone cops running around spraying water everywhere, no fire to be found, not knowing what to do. Police cars blocking the road; and little ol' me fixing the leak that was no more then a Bic lighter)

  The last time I seen a gas spill at a gas station there the guy who split it was spreading kitty litter and sweeping it up. No police, no fireman, just a man and his kitty litter.
 
Never heard of them evacuating a neighborhood for junior spilling gasoline while filling the lawnmower.

Do and news search once type in ; "propane explosion garage"

 Then type in "gasoline explosion garage" and "gasoline fire garage"

Compare the two and decide for yourself.

 My favorite is the one where;
 The mother and daughter pull in the driveway press the garage door opener and get a trip to the hospital because the garage door went through the windshield. The cause was the father's leaking Coleman propane lantern attached to a 1 pound cylinder. It was ignited by a static electric charge from the garage door weather stripping. 
 
 An awesome picture you might also find is a garage door on the roof of the neighbors across the street,
 or the pictures of newly constructed home that had the garage blown apart and  the house knocked  off the foundation . It was labeled a total loss, killed the owner and all he did was open his trunk to remove the a grill cylinder.
 
Ever hear of a lawnmower doing damage like that, Sure they've burnt  houses and garages down but Explosions?

 Things to know about propane;
*It's invisible; you can't tell if it present or not.
*It is odorless; they add an odorant but i can fade or not be detectable under certain conditions.
*It's tasteless
*You can't feel it in it's gaseous state, and in the liquid state it will freeze burn you faster than a flame.
*It is heavier than air and can accumulate in undetectable explosive quantities.
*Only takes 3 Milli-joules of static spark to ignite propane. The humane body won't feel the spark till 6 Milli-joules
*NEVER PUT OUT A PROPANE FIRE UNLESS YOU CAN STOP THE SOURCE OF THE LEAK FIRST!!!
 it will accumulate and become more dangerous if it comes in contact with an ignition source.

 So do you still think filling a lawnmower with and Liquid gas that you can see, smell, taste, touch and when in a puddle on the ground will extinguish a lit cigarette  is more dangerous?

[Gordo]

 
 We're still beating that horse and it's on the plate!

 If it's safer than filling a lawnmower,
Why do they evacuate an entire neighborhood for a small propane leak?  (Had this happen, firetrucks and all. The fireman looked like the keystone cops running around spraying water everywhere, no fire to be found, not knowing what to do. Police cars blocking the road; and little ol' me fixing the leak that was no more then a Bic lighter)

  The last time I seen a gas spill at a gas station there the guy who split it was spreading kitty litter and sweeping it up. No police, no fireman, just a man and his kitty litter.
 
Never heard of them evacuating a neighborhood for junior spilling gasoline while filling the lawnmower.

Do and news search once type in ; "propane explosion garage"

 Then type in "gasoline explosion garage" and "gasoline fire garage"

Compare the two and decide for yourself.

 My favorite is the one where;
 The mother and daughter pull in the driveway press the garage door opener and get a trip to the hospital because the garage door went through the windshield. The cause was the father's leaking Coleman propane lantern attached to a 1 pound cylinder. It was ignited by a static electric charge from the garage door weather stripping. 
 
 An awesome picture you might also find is a garage door on the roof of the neighbors across the street,
 or the pictures of newly constructed home that had the garage blown apart and  the house knocked  off the foundation . It was labeled a total loss, killed the owner and all he did was open his trunk to remove the a grill cylinder.
 
Ever hear of a lawnmower doing damage like that, Sure they've burnt  houses and garages down but Explosions?

 Things to know about propane;
*It's invisible; you can't tell if it present or not.
*It is odorless; they add an odorant but i can fade or not be detectable under certain conditions.
*It's tasteless
*You can't feel it in it's gaseous state, and in the liquid state it will freeze burn you faster than a flame.
*It is heavier than air and can accumulate in undetectable explosive quantities.
*Only takes 3 Milli-joules of static spark to ignite propane. The humane body won't feel the spark till 6 Milli-joules
*NEVER PUT OUT A PROPANE FIRE UNLESS YOU CAN STOP THE SOURCE OF THE LEAK FIRST!!!
 it will accumulate and become more dangerous if it comes in contact with an ignition source.

 So do you still think filling a lawnmower with and Liquid gas that you can see, smell, taste, touch and when in a puddle on the ground will extinguish a lit cigarette  is more dangerous?

And yet, I quote you:

I spill more propane on the ground in a year than you will probably use in your life,
 so I am more then likely more verse in these laws than you .

Hmm, kind of makes you wonder    Do the firetrucks just follow you around, or do you have them on speed dial?

I too, fill propane tanks for my (part-time) job. I won't claim to be at your level. I am but a humble part-time gas station employee that is certified to fill small propane tanks (we don't do anything bigger than 100 lbers), and RVs. Been doing it for about 6 years now. I have never spilled any on the ground.

[HIMO]

Fight nice guys.

                                                                        HIMO
                                                      Iceshanty & MFF Global Moderator

[gasman707]

  : Inside joke there Gordo! Wonder how long this one was going to take. 
 
 You do too spill propane on the ground. In reality it's venting it into the atmosphere every time you disconnect the hose. The only time propane is actually 'spilled'  on the ground is when filling delivery trucks and large storage tanks. My old manager and mentor used it when talking about the competition.
 Just in case your interested I average about 700,000 gallons a year delivered, not counting dock cylinders, tank pump outs and everything else.
 If you are certified as you claim why you busting on me for telling people not to do what you were trained not to do.
  You were trained to know if the tank has no Dot markings IT CAN'T BE FILLED.  It must have been  one of those 'Here this is how you do it, don't worry about that' kind of things. If so, I feel sorry for you, and  hope you understand the liability aspect is that you can be fined, incarcerated, and sued in civil court if things go wrong.

[gasman707]

Fight nice guys.

                                                                        HIMO
                                                      Iceshanty & MFF Global Moderator

My apologizes HIMO,  I'm not trying to fight just educate.

[Trooper Bri]

Fight nice guys.

                                                                        HIMO
                                                      Iceshanty & MFF Global Moderator

Aaahahahahahaha! Can I start a rolling your own cigarettes thread? Same principal, different product.

[gasman707]

Thanks to Gordo I found out Manchester is making "REFILLABLE 1lb PROPANE TANKS"
 Heres the link http://www.mantank.com/green/refillable.htm
If you go to the bottom of the page you fill find a link for a flyer and a link for filling instructions.

 I contacted my Manchester supplier and got prices they are as follow;

 Refillable 1lb cylinder-                             $35.46
 Manchesters Refill assembly-               $165.86
New forklift Cylinder 33lb (supply)-         $158.58
Used forklift usual sell for-                       $60.00
 (you might find these items cheaper. This is my companies pricing and reflects their profit margin)

Now I know that its alot of cash but look at it this way.
 What' safety worth?
Another common one is "I'm trying to be green and save the planet" Green gets expensive thats why we're a throw away society.
 And if you decide you don't need it anymore you could sell it for up 75% of cost. What return do you get from non-refillables.
 I have been told that you don't need Manchesters refill assembly to fill these, (don't quote me on that) but the cylinder must be in the vertical position.
Manchester will not warranty any cylinder not filled by their assembly or if the person who filled it is not certified. It's in the filling the instructions PLEASE READ!
 
 I still don't advocate people filling their own cylinders. But, you are going to do it anyway ,atleast 
now there is a some what safer and LEGAL way, that I can't argue about.

Check local codes refilling is prohibited in most communities and NEVER ALLOWED IN A BUILDING.

[BigDynamite]

Not to be a jerk, but the green tanks that are already widely available sound just as "legally" refillable as these.  Doesn't it sound strange to say legally refillable and refilling prohibited in most communities (that means illegal) at the same time?

[Gordo]

If you are certified as you claim why you busting on me for telling people not to do what you were trained not to do.
  You were trained to know if the tank has no Dot markings IT CAN'T BE FILLED.  It must have been  one of those 'Here this is how you do it, don't worry about that' kind of things. If so, I feel sorry for you, and  hope you understand the liability aspect is that you can be fined, incarcerated, and sued in civil court if things go wrong.

Because what I was trained to do for my job and what I do privately at my home are two completely unrelated things. It would be illegal for me to fill one lb. cylinders for somebody at the gas station for COMMERCE.

No, the guy the that trained me was very thorough, and I don't remember his exact words, but he did tell me something along the lines of "Use a little common sense, and this is not a dangerous procedure. If it was there wouldn't be thousands of filling stations across the country and many thousands of people at those filling stations doing this."

[gooseblaster49707]

alot of the new 1# tanks have been modified in the stem area (center pin) to not work with the older refill attachments.    nothing you can do with them except target practice in the back yard, away from the house, with a 22 for the kids. cash in the shot up tanks at recycle.
.
they were/are all along ''non-refillable''.
.
there's been a bunch of flack floating around lately about metal flakes coming out of bulk tanks that refill 10-40 pound tanks. they are supposed to plug up a mr buddy or whatever.     if there were metal flakes/shavings in the bulk tanks, why don't they plug the stove, hot water heater, furnace in your house?   just asking.

[gasman707]

there's been a bunch of flack floating around lately about metal flakes coming out of bulk tanks that refill 10-40 pound tanks. they are supposed to plug up a mr buddy or whatever.     if there were metal flakes/shavings in the bulk tanks, why don't they plug the stove, hot water heater, furnace in your house?   just asking.

 The tank at your house is large enough to allow these particles to sink to the bottom and the gas you use is pulled from the top (when you fill a cylinder off a large tank liquid propane is pulled from the bottom of the tank) . The home propane system has other safe guards built into to stop this from happening and creating a potentially dangerous situation. Some of these safe guards are the regulators which if installed properly vent propane outside the home not into it, and Drip Leggs installed before appliance controls to catch such debris if it gets in the system so it doesn't get in the controls and plug them up.

[gasman707]

Because what I was trained to do for my job and what I do privately at my home are two completely unrelated things. It would be illegal for me to fill one lb. cylinders for somebody at the gas station for COMMERCE.

No, the guy the that trained me was very thorough, and I don't remember his exact words, but he did tell me something along the lines of "Use a little common sense, and this is not a dangerous procedure. If it was there wouldn't be thousands of filling stations across the country and many thousands of people at those filling stations doing this."