Propane tank froze up? would not release gas

[musky8it]

I always leave my 1lb tanks in the van....Last few days it was extra cold, single to teens at night. I went fishing Wed, that evening I went to use my propane for the screw on heater...And no gas would come out...grrrrr....I thought maybe the value was froze, so I tried my other tank, same thing....So i put the tank under my coverhauls for a 1/2hr to warm them up. Then it would let the gas out, but at the start, I could hear a spit/sputter sound and it flamed up a couple times like the white gas colman lanters do...

Then after about a hr, it went out. Thought it was empty and I didn't feel like warming the other one up. When I got home I took them inside. Today i tried both, and they both works. So I guess the reason the one quit working was it froze up again....

Anyone else have a problem with the 1lb propane tanks when its extreme cold?  My heater is the type that just sets on top the tank, not an expensive one, its only 2 yrs old, can't be the heater...

[HuskerOnHardwater]

M'8it,

I'm having the same  problem w/my Mr. Heater Big Buddy!  Frosting/freezing of the small canisters tried everything you have but I have no solution, yet!  If I come up w/a solution this weekend I'll be sure to get back to you.  Going to experiment this weekend, it's going to be in the single digits around here so, I guess no better time than now!  Anyone else that has experienced this please, Musky8'it and I could use the feedback.

Good luck and Good Fishin'!

Mick

[DanAKAL]

Try keeping your canisters in a heated area (garage) overnight along with an ice chest with the lid open in the same heated area.  Ice chests work just as well to keep things warm as they do to keep them cold.  When you go out on the ice keep the canisters in the ice chest and try to insulate the bottom of the ice chest from the lake ice.  Also, minimize opening the lid of the ice chest as much as possible to maintain the heat inside.  When in operation try to insulate the canister from the lake ice with a board or something.  If you are concerned about the ice chest internal temperature dropping put in a couple of the chemical hand warmers.  This should pro long freezing of the canisters. 

Dan

[turbo 42]

theres these big bag of beans that you put around the back of your neck if its sore you just throw it in the micro wave for a few mins i bet one would more than due its job in a cooler and maybe try and find some big pipe insulation to put around your tanks and on the bottom that'd probably keep'em nice and toasty if you do both especially. i'm not sure where you'd find the bean bags but i own one and there out there somwhere... good luck

[musky8it]

Tks for the comeback. I thought maybe I did something wrong. Looks like the manufacture need to add detials saying they will not work good when they get extremely cold. I looked on the canister and nothing says keep from frezeing weather.....Wonder if its the valve or something else. I bet the valve is the problem. Like I said, one time i opened the van and smelt gas when it was in single digits. I bet the O ring in the valve is it....Could be a safety hazard the makers need to look at.

One thing I do know, if they don't work. Just put them inside your cloths for bout 1/2 hr to warm them up and they will release the propain....

[twintrades]

I have the same problem. It was about 1 degree outside. My wrists started to slow way up cus of the cold i thought ya its time to get tosty. try to light it and nada. After 1/2 hr in my arm pit she fired right up.

[moosehunter]

if you can, try going with a bigger cylnder. they have a 10 lb one.

[gunner]

turbo 42-- Great idea! You can find those bean bag heat wraps at craft fairs usually held at churches or schools.  Have the wife or girlfriend scout you out one---I'm sure the "better half" won't need an excuse to shop!!!  Gunner

[RLWagner]

Have not read all the posts, and have to get back to work, but what I do on below zero mornings is to duct tape a hand warmer to the side of the one pound tank. It warms it enough to allow it to continue working. Hope it works for you. 

RL

[DRR324]

Working as a manager for a propane company for 12 years- I could add to the post as to the why it freezes.  I won't write a book- or try not to.  Propane- in liquid form is -44 degrees, when stored in a small container in very cold weather, it is unable to vaporize due to not having enough space in the container where it can come into contact with the walls of the container in the vapor space.  Imagine a glass of water 3/4 full- the liquid is on the bottom- the vapor area at the top.  This vapor space must be large enough to allow the vapor to absorb heat through the container walls to produce sufficient pressure to force the vapor out of the tank.  When 1 lb containers are very cold- not enough vapor is produced to allow sufficient burning of your lanterns or heaters.  Same goes in regards to the post about freezing to the ice.  The vapor is being sucked out of the can- and the remaining propane is boiling trying to replace the vapor being used.  This extreme cold attracts the moisture from the outside air- and thus frost developes on the can- and freezes to the ice.  Like previously stated- leave the 1lb cylinders in a warmer environment before using them and try to keep a few spares warm for use when the others freeze.  This is also why 10lb, 20lb cylinders work better- they have larger surface areas where the vapor can absorb heat and create more vapor for use.... hope this helps.....

[radzicto]

Save a buck. Use a 2 liter soda container and just put warm/hot water in it in the cooler. 2-3 and you have a warm lunch as well.

[DanAKAL]

These make good sacrificial ice chests for larger propane tanks.  Just have to drill a hole in then for the hose to exit.  Seems the sizes have changed over the years and some of them aren't big enough for a full size propane tank.  Measure the tank and inside of the ice chest before buying.

http://www.igloocoolers.com/products/FullSize/MaxCold/129/

[gunner]

DRR 324---Thank you for educating me and I even understood it!! I'm sure you could have gone into much detail but kept it simple! Thanks again. Gunner

[BlindSquirrel]

theres these big bag of beans that you put around the back of your neck if its sore you just throw it in the micro wave for a few mins i bet one would more than due its job in a cooler and maybe try and find some big pipe insulation to put around your tanks and on the bottom that'd probably keep'em nice and toasty if you do both especially. i'm not sure where you'd find the bean bags but i own one and there out there somwhere... good luck

Yep, a big bag of beans will always get the gas flowing.

[1TIGGER]

I have an old mitten that I put a disposable hand warmer in and then the bottle along side the handwarmer and it eliminated the freezing issues .

[musky8it]

tks for all the ideas guys, at least now I know there was nothing wrong with the tanks. Maybe the manufactures should put on the tank that they will not work when they reach a certain temp.. I am sure many tanks get tossed because the person thinks they are defaulty or empty..

As for the larger tanks, I know they work all winter. No matter if its 85 or 5 degrees out, I am out on the grill cooking. We grill all winter long. I carry to much crap out on the ice, no room for the larger tanks. So I will have to remember when its extremely cold, to keep the tanks warm.

[c2223]

If I can warm hotdogs on my engines manifold you can certainly warm your tanks while you are getting your gear around, did it going to football games, dogs are served at halftime!

[gasman707]

Working as a manager for a propane company for 12 years- I could add to the post as to the why it freezes.  I won't write a book- or try not to.  Propane- in liquid form is -44 degrees, when stored in a small container in very cold weather, it is unable to vaporize due to not having enough space in the container where it can come into contact with the walls of the container in the vapor space.  Imagine a glass of water 3/4 full- the liquid is on the bottom- the vapor area at the top.  This vapor space must be large enough to allow the vapor to absorb heat through the container walls to produce sufficient pressure to force the vapor out of the tank.  When 1 lb containers are very cold- not enough vapor is produced to allow sufficient burning of your lanterns or heaters.  Same goes in regards to the post about freezing to the ice.  The vapor is being sucked out of the can- and the remaining propane is boiling trying to replace the vapor being used.  This extreme cold attracts the moisture from the outside air- and thus frost developes on the can- and freezes to the ice.  Like previously stated- leave the 1lb cylinders in a warmer environment before using them and try to keep a few spares warm for use when the others freeze.  This is also why 10lb, 20lb cylinders work better- they have larger surface areas where the vapor can absorb heat and create more vapor for use.... hope this helps.....

dr324 as a manager in the propane industry you should know that it is the liquid area in contact with the cylinder walls (called the wet surface) that obsorbs heat that allows the liquid propane to boil to create a burnable vapor. That is why you see the frost develop at the liquid line down to the bottom of the tank. The solution to this problem with the small cylinders is to either keep them warm, or go to a larger tank with a hose hook up. that is what I use. I have a 5lb that I use.

[beeverfishing]

WOW, Learn something new every day !!  I knew that propane boiled at approximately -44 degrees F. at atmospheric pressure, So I assumed that unless the temps got really cold (Arctic cold) then the ambient temperature would have no effect on it boiling.  Guess I was wrong..  Partly anyway, guess it has a lot to do with the volume of the container.

Now, can anyone tell me why a 5 lb. propane tank cost so much more then a 20 lb. tank???  Seems odd that a smaller tank would cost more.

[gasman707]

WOW, Learn something new every day !!  I knew that propane boiled at approximately -44 degrees F. at atmospheric pressure, So I assumed that unless the temps got really cold (Arctic cold) then the ambient temperature would have no effect on it boiling.  Guess I was wrong..  Partly anyway, guess it has a lot to do with the volume of the container.

Now, can anyone tell me why a 5 lb. propane tank cost so much more then a 20 lb. tank???  Seems odd that a smaller tank would cost more.

I asked a manufacturing rep this very question and here is what I was told-
 20lb cylinders are massed produced and are the most common and widely used cylinder.
You are not paying for the cost of materials in the 5lb, but the cost incured by retooling, storage and manufacturing processes.
There are just as many steps in producing the 5lb as the 20lb.
The 5lb cylinders are limited to use due to size therefore far less used which cause storage cost to occur until sold.
The O.P.D valves that have to be installed in the 5lb cylinder cost more for the same reasons, which add to the cost of the cylinder.

 

[turbo 42]

you guys are talking like hank hill lol

[beeverfishing]

gasman..  ty for your reply. 

Yeah, well there would be a few less in storage if the price was reasonable.  I'll probably break down and get one anyway.  a 20 lb. is more then I would need on the ice in both volume and weight.  If I used a sled or quad it wouldn't be so bad, but I pull by hand.  The less weight the better.

[fishinjim]

When I pull a 20# out on the ice I use a plastic milk crate to help in keeping it from tipping over.

[pikeking]

Get the 20# tank kit for 8 bucks and bring the tank from your gas grill. Won't freeze up and you won't run out of fuel.

[miket.]

i also get this problem and my way around it has been to put my fuel canister in a dish towel.the couple of degree difference really makes a big difference.let me know how you make out.ice is nice

[DRR324]

Gasman is correct- the liquid area is the wetted surface and attracts the heat needed to boil the propane.  Sorry for not proof reading my post and realizing my error......glad someone was paying attention out there.

[musky8it]

Last sat was not as cold as the time of my OP....It was probably 20-25, but when I went to use my one burner cooker, it would not work.... I even had the tank inside my fur hat to keep it warm, but that didn't work. So I rubbed the top part of the tank with gloves on for a couple minutes. And it fired right up.

[miket.]

the most important thing to remember when keeping your tanks warm, the very top around the threads is what has to keep clean and warm.

[PCB]

consider yourself lucky... i had the same thing happen one time... the valve had frozen on the bottle when in the toolbox of my truck... when i tried to screw it into the lantern the liquid propane shot out and got all over my hands.  it was so cold it burned something fierce, even through thick gloves. my hands felt it for a few days.  i always take the bottles inside overnight now