IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Northern Pike => Topic started by: IceRaider on Feb 08, 2013, 06:26 AM
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I'm sure both things happen, but I'm wondering 'in most cases', does a break off occur due to an abrasive cutting action of their teeth rubbing against the line? or does the pike thrash with such force that the resistance exceeds the line weight limit and simply snaps the line? Just wondering which it is most of the time. The fact that people say they lose less fish when using steel leaders leads me to believe that it must be the teeth that is causing most break offs.
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To much tension on the line when the pike thrashes its able to cut/abraid thru the line with their teeth. I have had pike sit there and shake their head back and forth under the hole trying to get off, but to no avail b/c the line is slack. My response is based on experience using fluorocarbon line.
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I believe its their teeth. If they swallow the hook and you pull the line tight sometimes when it shifts when they thrash and turn to run a tooth will catch the line just right. However, most breakoffs I experienced and see other experience is when they go to yank a pike up the hole. They go from low weight in water to x amount of lbs on their way up and out and when they thrash the line can cut. Get the gaff! ;D
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I asked this because I had an idea of using fluoro leaders but covering the areas nearest to the hook with 3"-5" length of micro spring. This would cover the area of line where the pike's teeth would make contact. Since the spring is metal it will protect the fluoro. And since it's a spring, it will still flex without being too rigid. Thoughts?
(http://s17.postimage.org/nwq0juqm7/spring_guides_1_L.jpg)
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Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using the fluoro ??? I would think that would hinder the action of the bait to some degree. Also if the fish swallows the hook, I wouldn't be surprised if that spring was completely in its mouth away from the teeth.
I've used 40# fluoro exclusively for 3 years, caught plenty of pike in the 10-16lb range, and have not lost a one to bite offs. Play them out, keep the tension of the line, don't horse them at the hole, and you should be fine.
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It's to use as much fluoro in your rig as possible yet still protect the areas where it needs it the most. If the spring is placed about 1.5" away from the hook, that should prevent it from hindering the action of the bait.
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???? Give it the ol college try and see how it works? IMO less knots and ties the better. One less weak point to snap. ;D
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I'm sure both things happen, but I'm wondering 'in most cases', does a break off occur due to an abrasive cutting action of their teeth rubbing against the line? or does the pike thrash with such force that the resistance exceeds the line weight limit and simply snaps the line? Just wondering which it is most of the time. The fact that people say they lose less fish when using steel leaders leads me to believe that it must be the teeth that is causing most break offs.
I tried an experiement once and put steel leaders on half our tip-ups and 30 lb mono on the other half. Found both had the about same amount of flags for the day but with the steel leaders we never lost a fish and with the mono we lost a couple due to their teeth cutting through the mono. I always run 12 inch steel leaders.
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I believe most break offs are from knot failure... I know a guy who kept busting off fish with steel leaders, it happened to him on a regular basis, finally i saw how he tied his clinch knot and it was way under tied...
When using fluoro, mono etc etc, you have 3 knots... All it takes is one failure, and before you know it, the fish as huge it snapped 40lb fluoro or it broke a steel leader it was enormous....
Ive seen 20lb+ pike brought in on 12lb flouro, 30lb mono, 25 lb mono 15 lb flouro, ive yet to see a pike just rip through any or snap it from sheer brut force...
I have however witnessed more than a few knot failures...
Just personal experience here...... A gaff at the hole makes a world of difference never try and horse a big fish through a hole, just gaff em and be done with it..
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I was using steel leader yesterday and had 1 tipup with 8lb fluoro for perch/eyes and a muskie happened to hit the one with fluoro next thing I know I'm stuck in a hour long battle with a 44" 26.5lb muskie.... hooked perfect in the corner of the mouth. Got lucky the hook wasn't swallowed. But like was previously said if you fight the fish correctly you can land just about any fish. Don't know how the rest of my day would have went because I packed up and went to the taxidermist so can't tell you if the fluoro would have had more flags than the steel. But we always use steel leaders when fishing for toothy critters
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Anybody can get lucky and land a pike without a steel leader.
If the line gets into the canine teeth (the triangular, large cutting teeth on the lower jaw), it's over. Those teeth are so sharp, I have had 30 pound hard mono cut without feeling a thing. I have seen 80 pound flouro musky leaders bitten through on the strike.
Winter fish are seldom hooked as deep as they can be in the summer, partly because of the colder water temps, but mostly because the strike is usually perpendicular to the line direction. What I mean is in the summer, the fish frequently follow the lure, striking from behind the lure. The speed of the strike often allows the lure to get very deep into the pike's rather large mouth, sometimes even through the gills and out the other side. I have seen large pike take the lure and a 12" leader and cut the line, all on the strike. When icefishing, the fish usually hits from the side, the lure very seldom gets very deep.
Even on a deeply hooked fish, you can get lucky. Sometimes the line will get behind the lip, trapped in the corner of the mouth. Lip hooked fish can usually be landed.
As a long time pike fishing guide, admittedly all summer time, I have seen tens of thousands of pike caught. Because we do a lot of sight fishing, I see many of these battles from start to finish. The only bite guard that won't get bitten through is wire. Hard mono, flourocarbon, braid, it doesn't matter. Those teeth will cut through any of them if they get the chance.
No matter what you fish with, there will be a knot involved. There is no excuse for not knowing a good knot. There are many that work just fine.
If you don't like leaders, knottable wire is a good alternative. Anything else is just playing the lottery. Its a lot like going "all in" in hold'em. It works every time, until it doesn't.
Enjoy your fishing, it's about more than what comes up through the hole.
Good luck!
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you also have to watch the gill plate they are very sharp like the teeth they will cut through braid mono and flouro no promblem
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I'd be more worried about the gill plate as Mr. Tipup says. When they thrash and roll the gill plate is probably the culprit.
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Anybody can get lucky and land a pike without a steel leader.
If the line gets into the canine teeth (the triangular, large cutting teeth on the lower jaw), it's over. Those teeth are so sharp, I have had 30 pound hard mono cut without feeling a thing. I have seen 80 pound flouro musky leaders bitten through on the strike.
Winter fish are seldom hooked as deep as they can be in the summer, partly because of the colder water temps, but mostly because the strike is usually perpendicular to the line direction. What I mean is in the summer, the fish frequently follow the lure, striking from behind the lure. The speed of the strike often allows the lure to get very deep into the pike's rather large mouth, sometimes even through the gills and out the other side. I have seen large pike take the lure and a 12" leader and cut the line, all on the strike. When icefishing, the fish usually hits from the side, the lure very seldom gets very deep.
Even on a deeply hooked fish, you can get lucky. Sometimes the line will get behind the lip, trapped in the corner of the mouth. Lip hooked fish can usually be landed.
As a long time pike fishing guide, admittedly all summer time, I have seen tens of thousands of pike caught. Because we do a lot of sight fishing, I see many of these battles from start to finish. The only bite guard that won't get bitten through is wire. Hard mono, flourocarbon, braid, it doesn't matter. Those teeth will cut through any of them if they get the chance.
No matter what you fish with, there will be a knot involved. There is no excuse for not knowing a good knot. There are many that work just fine.
If you don't like leaders, knottable wire is a good alternative. Anything else is just playing the lottery. Its a lot like going "all in" in hold'em. It works every time, until it doesn't.
Enjoy your fishing, it's about more than what comes up through the hole.
Good luck!
I get what you are saying as per open water fishing and the pike chasing a bait down, but, its really no different through the ice, no matter how the bait is taken...... I often put the hammer to fish mid run, spool spinning etc etc etc..... Seems like its a moot point if you ask me.... Open water i use heavy polymer leaders and have yet to have an issue...
My success getting on to bigger pike came when i stopped using steel... I can only offer my experience...
I truly believe the steel/ polymer convo could go on forever and a day... Its obvious both work, committing yourself with faith
to a style of fishing is something that takes time and experience...
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I truly believe the steel/ polymer convo could go on forever and a day... Its obvious both work, committing yourself with faith
to a style of fishing is something that takes time and experience...
X2
Start reading the musky boards and you will find thousands of pros and cons for each.
WS
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my guess would be the that they are cutting the leader. But i read somewhere that a 20lb pike can produce twice its weight in torque, so i guess both are possible.
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Try this: http://www.tackledirect.com/malinboanokink.html
Been using the Malin Titanium wire for 10 years now and breaks I can count on one hand. Since this is wire that can be tied, I have had the occassional bad knot have a stress point and break on me. If you tie it right, its rare. This wire is about the same diameter as 12 lb test mono for the 30 lb wire. It also stretches and is extremely difficult to kink. Its kinda spendy when compared to Mono but you cant put a price on a 20 lb Northern snapping your line like its spagetti. Just saying.
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On the gill plate issue, I am not convinced it is the major problem. I have had uncomfortable pressure from the gill plate on my thumb while holding a pike in a not quite right fashion, but I have never been cut by one. The gill plate lays pretty flat against the cheek, so there is very little opportunity for the line to catch against it. I am not saying it wouldn't cut the line under the right circumstances, but the gill plate is "butter knife" sharp, compared to the teeth being razor sharp. Throw in all that open mouthed head shaking.....
Plain titanium wire is very effective, but extremely hard on the fish. If they roll or get tangled in it at all, it marks them up pretty bad. It's a little hard on the hands as well. Plastic coated braided wire is the best option for me.
Cheers.
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I don't think it is the sharpness of the gill plate is the issue. I think that the fact that it is a harder edge is more of the culprit. Much like the edge of the ice that might cause a point where the line would have undue pressure put onto it. The head thrashing coupled with the weight of the fish probably compounds the situation. There is no doubt that they have sharp teeth, but they are sharp at the point not on the sides.
We have had great success using both titanium and floro leaders and always make them at least 18" long to take in account the teeth, gill plate and the edge of the hole. It seems to me that you have more control while fighting these fish up to the hole, but when they get them in or near the hole itself things can get crazy.
We have also gone to Octopus hooks which almost always find their way to the jaw and thus taking the teeth out of the equation. Coupled with the fact that the Octopus hook is easier to remove makes it a lot easier to get the fish back in the water.
This is just my opinion and has worked for us. We haven't lost a fish once the hookset was made in a long long time, so I have to think that we're doing something right.
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It's all in the teeth..........
Pike may grow large and make sudden runs or surges, but proper handling can bring fish in that weigh 3 or more times the pound test of the line or leader. My personal best is a 53.3" sturgeon on 6# line and a medium spinning rod. Never weighed it but I'd estimate 35-40#, but they don't have teeth.
I have to disagree with lightningz, pike teeth are sharp on the sides, that's the problem. Walleye teeth are only sharp on the points (like an ice pick) and I'd fish light plastic leader unhesitatingly all day for them. But with pike as a primary target, those teeth are sharp on the sides (just like razor blades) a more cut proof material is required. I use a light uncoated stranded wire, 18-20# for most applications and I don't ever get cut off. I have broken a couple trying to lift fish out out the hole. Once that head is out of water and the fish can shake and thrash, most any material is at risk.
As an experiment, if you have or know someone who has a pike mounted or a jawbone, try this: Take some line, start with a "superline" like Fireline or Power Pro or an equivalent, stretch it nice and tight (like you might be fighting a fish) and rub it down the side of one of those teeth. You should find that the more pressure you apply (stretch wise) the easier it cuts. Maybe it takes a couple of rubs but that's what happens. You can also try it with mono, fluorocarbon, titanium and steel. Again, you should find that titanium and steel are the only truly cut proof options; very heavy fluorocarbon can withstand a lot but will still eventually cut. Mono? Don't even go there.
Now I know lots of folks have good luck fishing "plastic" and that's OK. Many claim to have never been cut off. Might be true. The difference for these folks is in the playing of the fish. Experienced hands do not eliminate the risk, only provide some cushion when fish turn quickly and run. That said, I've been cut off with 25# fluoro and barely felt the fish. Could have been pressure applied by running through the weeds.........
There's additional help for those that target trophies through the ice. I've heard from several taxidermists that big pike they mount caught through the ice usually have comparatively fewer teeth than their summer counterparts. I'd hazard a guess that that massive egg production robs nutrition and something has to give. Since fish teeth are replaceable it makes sense to me. So.........fewer teeth, minimized cut hazard.
Bottom line, there's no substitute for properly playing a fish. If a line breaks (not cut) or a hook straightens or a rod breaks and you still have line on the spool, you broke/straightened it, not the fish. Give 'em line if they need it.......... Try not to get too excited, that works for me most of the time but truly big fish can interesting effects on folks. Steel or titanium can provide some extra protection against cuts but can be overstressed and broken like any line or leader.
Just my opinions (except for the sharp on the sides thing, that's fact) based on my experiences.........us er mileage may vary.
/m
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On the gill plate issue, I am not convinced it is the major problem. I have had uncomfortable pressure from the gill plate on my thumb while holding a pike in a not quite right fashion, but I have never been cut by one. The gill plate lays pretty flat against the cheek, so there is very little opportunity for the line to catch against it. I am not saying it wouldn't cut the line under the right circumstances, but the gill plate is "butter knife" sharp, compared to the teeth being razor sharp. Throw in all that open mouthed head shaking.....
Plain titanium wire is very effective, but extremely hard on the fish. If they roll or get tangled in it at all, it marks them up pretty bad. It's a little hard on the hands as well. Plastic coated braided wire is the best option for me.
Cheers.
I have caught hundreds of Pike over 15 lbs and some over 20 lbs. I have never had one roll up into my Titanium leader (which is all of 20"-24" long) and hurt themselves. All of those trophy Pike I have pictures of all over this web site have been released unharmed with nary a Titanium leader mark on their body. Besides, if a fish rolls or tangles in any kind of line or wire its going to "mark them up pretty bad". The Titanium would probably "Cut" them up pretty bad but as stated, I have never had it happen. Just saying.
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Well to quote the Wisconsin DNR website:
" The canines (conical, pointed teeth) that ring the wide lower jaw and the short, sharp brushlike teeth that line the roof of the northern"
Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/species/northernpike.pdf
I'm not here to argue with anyone as I can only point out the facts. Since most of the comments that we all read here are usually personal opinion (mine included).
I mentioned the gill plate being a contributor in an earlier post because it is another factor that should be considered. The brushlike teeth on the roof of the fishes mouth should also be considered because of the sheer numbers and the fact that they would have a sawing effect when mono line is dragged across them. We all know that you should check your line after every catch for abrasions and personally I think that is caused by the rooftop teeth. Other than the facts I've quoted the rest is just my opinions and you can take it for what it's worth. I've only been fishing for close to 50 years so I'm a little new to this whole thing.
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i liked the article some good info
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Well to quote the Wisconsin DNR website:
" The canines (conical, pointed teeth) that ring the wide lower jaw and the short, sharp brushlike teeth that line the roof of the northern"
Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/species/northernpike.pdf
I'm not here to argue with anyone as I can only point out the facts. Since most of the comments that we all read here are usually personal opinion (mine included).
I'll wholeheartedly agree with the opinions thing. Everyone has their own and are usually based on what fits into their experiences. As far as my dear WIDNR, most folks here believe they have no idea what's going on......... ;)
That said, I could counterpoint with a quote from the State of Montana website (which, of course fits into my experiences)
"They have large teeth on the side of their mouth, and many many small teeth inside of their mouth........When you fish for northerns, you will need to use a steel leader, (a short piece of steel line) at the end of your line. The pike's sharp teeth will cut easily through most fishing regular fishing line."
http://fwp.mt.gov/education/angler/mayClub/northernPike.html (http://fwp.mt.gov/education/angler/mayClub/northernPike.html)
We could go at this all week, and probably then some. By the end I might even have you believing I'm a French model......... Hey, I can back it up on the Internet! ;D
Seriously, all I'd ask is to go actually check it out for yourself with some line on real teeth. Find a mount (with unlaquered teeth, any kind of finish can coat and dull the edge) or use a fresh jawbone from a recent catch. Rub that line on the sides and see........ That and 7 stitches in an ER some years ago sure couldn't have been made by only a pointy (ice pick) tooth, had to be like a razor.....
No disrespect intended to you or your pool of experiences......... If you care to comment, I've said all I need to and we can move on. Again, like you, not picking a fight, just offering a different viewpoint.
As usual, these opinions are based on my experiences and user mileage may vary...........
/m
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Way too many close encounters with the aforementioned pike canine teeth for my liking.
Years ago I got bit pretty good on the back of my hand. Things healed up, of course, and all was good. Later that fall after all the swelling and tenderness was gone, I noticed a lump on my knuckle. I went to the doctor and had a 5/16" long pike tooth surgically removed from my knuckle! At first glance it looked like a cross between a cat's canine and a shark's tooth. Long and slim, in a diamond shaped profile, and sharp as a razor!
30 years of guiding pike fishermen here, all I can say is the pike in Saskatchewan have sharp, slicing canine teeth.
I guess I can't speak for other places....
All in good fun! Cheers!
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Usually teeth. If I have a break off it is at the hole when they spin around and cut my line.
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Totally the teeth, they are literally like razor blades. Even a 20 incher can bite you off. Wire is basically impossible for them to bite off and is the way to go when fishing murky or heavily stained water. In clear water, #20 fluoro is the way to go and bite offs are very rare if you don't put too much pressure on them.
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Ditto on the buy good material. I hate to admit but I lost the nicest Pike on a cheap Swivel . Wire leader and all my good knots the cheap swivel pulled apart the ring pulled out of the barrel. Now how you going to see that coming ? I buy good ones only now for the buck or two extra for the package that lasts me a season.. Lost a fish and I was in a derby And lost me a whole mess of Prize. All I got a good look at was tail 7 inches wide i'd say. So the answer is the weakest link breaks.. Line , Knots, cheap swivel , hooks that pull straight. I remember watching I guy play a Salmon in a river he had on 20lb test and was feeling confident. The fish ran so hard his drag melted on his old Mitchel 300 . Smoke pored out of if Pop goes the line .
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Its been a long time since I've been broken off. I make sure I put together the most quality leader I can, and the weak link is usually the hook. The hook will usually rip from the mouth before the line breaks. I have never had steel break, and only one bite through with 50# fluorocarbon. Fluoro does sometimes help. Most of the time pike are not line shy. Yesterday was the exeption for me. I had 2 tip ups out in clear water, one steel leader, one fluorocarbon, and everything else was the same. I got 4 hits on fluoro, none on steel. Give it a try, but steel is tried and true. This is the only time I've had fluoro out perform steel.
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It doesn't take much for a small pike to cut thru 12 lbs fluo, if the line end up at the wrong spot it's over. Can't stand pikes while I'm chasing walleyes....
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It doesn't take much for a small pike to cut thru 12 lbs fluo, if the line end up at the wrong spot it's over. Can't stand pikes while I'm chasing walleyes....
The trick to fishing, is to fish for something else. You get tons of walleye while perch fishing. You catch tons of bass while pike fishing. Another good one is catching lots of sunfish while crappie fishing. You get the picture.
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i am using a 3 foot leader of 30# spiderwire stealth . have been bit off on occasion not sure if it is due to me not replacing them with fresh enough but i am guessing its the teeth . i have been bite of by little ones and caught big ones (44 inch 25# muskie that had it for a long time and was hooked well in the stomach). and some just not sure on size. hook set and slack with a clean cut. i guess my question is would a thin titanium or light wire be just as visible and effective on slo days as the braid i am using. if so i may have to pick some up.
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braid is just as visible as steel. I don't understand why anyone would use braid as a leader. Between super braid, dacron, mono, and fluoro, super braid is the least resistant to cuts. It is followed by dacron, mono, and fluoro is the best. You should replace your spiderwire with 20# or 30# steel leader.
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I don't think it's the strength of a pike, it could be its teeth but I think a lot of the time it is their a full plates. the reason why I say Gill plates is because they are very sharp and I have the scars on my hands to prove it. I cannot count the number times I've caught a pike and bring it up the hole, and it has tangled itself all around the line so it is a very good possibility.
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20 lb flouro is really hard to cut almost all problems are in the knot. if theres a clean end, no curlie little peices. then its cut but 90% of the time its a bad knot thats why you should melt the end of your line every time but i do keep a small length of 80lb flouro in the tacklebox just in case i start etting alot of cut.offs
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I just wanted to add, I recently had one of the best fishing of my life. Pike were very aggressive and swallowing bait quickly. Using circle hooks, most pulled out of the stomach. I had 3 bite offs that day on 50# fluorocarbon. All got to the hole and I could see it was hooked deep. Then when it would run off, if broke off. The other gut hooked fish I got in, the line was shredded, badly. It makes me definitely think of going to 80# or even 100# fluorocarbon. To those of you running 20#, I'm just warning you it may very well cost you a big fish. Also if anyone has a suggestion on circle hooks that don't gut hook, let me know. I was using 3/0 Team Catfish double action's. I've switched to the 5/0 now, and I'll see how that goes. I'm thinking a smaller one might pull out of the stomach easier, but I don't know. As soon as I can get them, the Mustad Demon perfect circle hook looks really good, with a more than 90 degree turned in hook point.
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I think people lose more fish because their tackle can't handle the brute force. Give a man a fishing pole he uses the bend of the rod and the drag in his real to fight fish. Too many people I watch think they can win the tug of war battle with a fish when there is no give and take in your gear. When I figured that out after loseing to many battles I became a better fisherman. You have to figure out
How to give line back just like the drag on a reel or the bend in a rod. Ifna fish acts like it could freak out at the hole give it some line. When the tether gets shorter the more pressure there is on your equipment. I don't care what you are using,steel titatiu or flouro', the chances of you losing increase. Let em run as many times as it takes to bring the fish in calmly. I garuntee your catch rates will increase.
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No better on 50# spider line . Tried it and had a large number cut . Back to hand made steel and circle hooks .
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Trust me, 12# fluorocarbon is not nearly enough. I actually wouldn't even consider using it on purpose. A hook left in a fish can very easily kill it no matter where it is. You can ice pike with 4# mono because you keep the jig out of their teeth. When you are actually going after them, you won't be as lucky. As far as fluorocarbon 12# is not enough, 20# IMO is not enough, 30# is marginal at best, 40# and 50# is considered ok, but you should really use 60#+. Don't think you can muscle pike in on 50#, you will be cut off more times than not. Any super braid is a waste of time. It may be more abrasion resistant, but it cuts easier than mono. Throw in the fact that it is just as visible as steel, and you might at well use steel. I used to only use steel, these past few years I've been on a fluorocarbon kick, and now I'm going more back to steel when I can. Use fluorocarbon if the water is really clear, or fish just wont bite. In all other situations, I would just go with the lightest steel you can find, which is usually around 20#. Don't tell me you never get bit of with your current set up, nobody can.
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Trust me, 12# fluorocarbon is not nearly enough. I actually wouldn't even consider using it on purpose. A hook left in a fish can very easily kill it no matter where it is. You can ice pike with 4# mono because you keep the jig out of their teeth. When you are actually going after them, you won't be as lucky. As far as fluorocarbon 12# is not enough, 20# IMO is not enough, 30# is marginal at best, 40# and 50# is considered ok, but you should really use 60#+. Don't think you can muscle pike in on 50#, you will be cut off more times than not. Any super braid is a waste of time. It may be more abrasion resistant, but it cuts easier than mono. Throw in the fact that it is just as visible as steel, and you might at well use steel. I used to only use steel, these past few years I've been on a fluorocarbon kick, and now I'm going more back to steel when I can. Use fluorocarbon if the water is really clear, or fish just wont bite. In all other situations, I would just go with the lightest steel you can find, which is usually around 20#. Don't tell me you never get bit of with your current set up, nobody can.
Steady man, there are no bonus points for impersonating me............... ;) ;D
/m
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Trust me, 12# fluorocarbon is not nearly enough. I actually wouldn't even consider using it on purpose.
I grew up on the north coast of BC fishing for salmon, ling cod, halibut, and many other spices. While my grandpa and I never really targeted sharks very often we always knew when one hit our line, because there teeth came together and would fit into each other, like folding your fingers together to shear the line off instantly.
Now back to the reason I quoted this section. First off I fish #20 spider wire to a small swivel and i run a #12 fluorocarbon leader. I have caught many very large pike and only get broken off at the hit once or twice a season. Now what I have a very good understanding of is fishing big fish and even sharks with line much smaller than the fish and the mistake i see all the time is when people hook a big fish they turn stupid and turn up the drag. the more tension on the line, teeth or no teeth the easier it breaks. Add teeth to the pic and that chance of breaking off go up. The next biggest mistake i see is that people bring up even small pike and never take a look to see if their line has any nicks in it. After every pike i bring up the leader gets a very close inspection and often i need to cut some off or replace it.
The bigger fish I catch the more i lower the drag until I have a ton of line out. When you have a bunch of line out it can stretch and use the drag of moving through the water to exorb the sudden burst of tension ext. once they play out a bit is when i start to pull them back. When I get a break off it is at the hole and i did something stupid, or at the very first bite, which is why it though i would give my five cents (we no one cent in Canada anymore). I think that when a big pike grows a big mouth of teeth ever once in a while they just bite down and shear the line off. Yes they cannot bite through steel, but I catch more fish when they just see the lure and not the line. You can also catch big pike on #12 line as well as steel leader, I do it all the time. Biggest has been 39".
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You need to be calm like this.... http://youtu.be/U1_BrU5eKXc (http://youtu.be/U1_BrU5eKXc) it's 14 minutes incase you don't want to waste the time
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After that long of a fight, the fish has absolutely no energy left. It is plain unethical to fish like that on purpose. Sometimes you get them on accident, but to purposely go out unprepared like that would be just as bad as dropping them on the ice. I wouldn't even fish with someone who used 8 pound line as a leader for pike.
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After that long of a fight, the fish has absolutely no energy left. It is plain unethical to fish like that on purpose. Sometimes you get them on accident, but to purposely go out unprepared like that would be just as bad as dropping them on the ice. I wouldn't even fish with someone who used 8 pound line as a leader for pike.
That day I had 4tip ups out with steel leader and one with 8lb fluoro that was set up for perch/walleye just happened that it hit the one with fluoro.... it wasn't planned to catch it on that tip up and had I known that it was hooked perfect in the corner of the mouth it wouldn't have been that long of a fight.
If you would've read the whole thread you would know that I wasn't fishing like that on purpose.... my first post on page 1
I was using steel leader yesterday and had 1 tipup with 8lb fluoro for perch/eyes and a muskie happened to hit the one with fluoro next thing I know I'm stuck in a hour long battle with a 44" 26.5lb muskie.... hooked perfect in the corner of the mouth. Got lucky the hook wasn't swallowed. But like was previously said if you fight the fish correctly you can land just about any fish. Don't know how the rest of my day would have went because I packed up and went to the taxidermist so can't tell you if the fluoro would have had more flags than the steel. But we always use steel leaders when fishing for toothy critters
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My post was not directed at you. It was for those guys that do stupid things like use light fluorocarbon leaders, or even worse, use thin braided line or just tie right to the tip up line.
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My opinion is that qute a few break offs are caused by lack of attention to detail, at least among the average ice fisherman. Every year, I say I'm going to thoroughly check all my lines for nicks and weak spots and completely replace the line on some of my tip ups. But I'm a major procrastinator and by the time my first outing arrives I just make sure everything's working properly and go out fishing.
I've got some tipups with line on them that's over 10 years old. I keep meaning to replace it, but since ice season is right after Christmas, I look at the price of new line and decide to "buy it later". Later never seems to come.
I know plenty of guys that don't even do any maintenance on their tip ups at all. They get packed away at the end of the season and not looked at again until they're out on the ice ready to bait up the next year. Then they figure they hooked into a monster when their line breaks.
All it takes is one weak spot to turn your 20 pound test into 5 pound.
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Usually a small imperfection in the leader material forms, perhaps unnoticeable, then sheer resistance does the rest. Snap!
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I happened across another instance of a bite off recently. Not me, but someone I was fishing with used 30# fluorocarbon. It was a brand new leader, with no imperfections. Lighter than anything I would use, but he claimed it works fine. The other thing he did different was use a bead to mark depth on the tip up, where I don't want anything on my line. Long story short, he hooked into a good fish, and at the last minute it made a run. His fingers caught the bead as the fish ripped line, and the leader was instantly bit off. Bite offs happen if you fish enough. If you use flurorocarbon leaders of any weight, you need to be very gentle with fish. I'll take a steel leader any time I can.
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I happened across another instance of a bite off recently. Not me, but someone I was fishing with used 30# fluorocarbon. It was a brand new leader, with no imperfections. Lighter than anything I would use, but he claimed it works fine. The other thing he did different was use a bead to mark depth on the tip up, where I don't want anything on my line. Long story short, he hooked into a good fish, and at the last minute it made a run. His fingers caught the bead as the fish ripped line, and the leader was instantly bit off. Bite offs happen if you fish enough. If you use flurorocarbon leaders of any weight, you need to be very gentle with fish. I'll take a steel leader any time I can.
No doubt you will get bit off with fluoro eventually. It will happen. I'm using 80lb seaguar fluoro now. Did the trick on a fat 41" today.