Author Topic: Knot question  (Read 9338 times)

Offline Whitet

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Knot question
« on: Aug 25, 2019, 11:33 PM »
What is a good knot to tie on small jigs? I normally use a Palomar knot. but on some of the smaller jigs I use, I can’t get the line through they eye twice. I have used the clinch not, but I have had that one break too many times an I hate it.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #1 on: Aug 26, 2019, 06:10 AM »
I like a Uni knot for lots of things. I'd have said improved clinch/Trilene knot but if you can't get the line through the eye twice that's out too.

https://www.101knots.com/uni-knot.html
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Offline hardwater diehard

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #2 on: Aug 26, 2019, 06:30 AM »
This may help for your preferred knot choice

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Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2019, 06:33 AM »
I have switched from the clinch knot to the rapala knot or surgeons loop.i got tired of repositioning the jig after every bite.the rapala knot has a loop that holds fiskas or other horizontal jigs at the perfect angle.better jig action and hooksets.jmo

Offline Whitet

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2019, 08:21 PM »
Thanks for the help, I will give those a try. Is that rapala knot and uniknot pretty strong?

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #5 on: Aug 27, 2019, 06:03 AM »
Pretty strong.ive caught northerns on 2# test with 3mm jigs while fishing for panfish numerous times.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #6 on: Aug 27, 2019, 08:18 AM »
Thanks for the help, I will give those a try. Is that rapala knot and uniknot pretty strong?

Yep. Can't go wrong with either one. I'd forgotten about the Rapala/loop knot. Thanks for the reminder Doc! I keep thinking I wanna tie certain jigs with this but always forget.  ::)  Maybe it'll come back to me this season.

I like Unis because they won't slip with slick lines like superlines or fluoro. You can also use it to attach a leader without a swivel tying them back-to-back. I musky fish alot and use either a Palomar or Uni for everything. never had a knot failure.
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Offline hnd

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #7 on: Oct 01, 2019, 09:14 AM »
i use either a trilene or king sling. 

Offline stinkyfingers

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #8 on: Oct 01, 2019, 09:39 AM »
I'm with esox on this one. Palomar if you can, uni if you can't. Those loop knots don't seem to work for me in that they allow the tail end of a tube jig to droop rather than the

horizontal presentation I'm looking for. They might be dandy for teardrop or other styles of jig with a different balance point.

Anybody feel like arguing about braid to fluoro leader connections choices?
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Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #9 on: Oct 01, 2019, 04:37 PM »


Anybody feel like arguing about braid to fluoro leader connections choices?

Yes, I'll go for it!! I have had probs with that. My fly fisher bros swear by the blood knot for making tapered leaders. I tried that with quite poor results. Mixed results with Uni to Uni. I'm now working on my own version of the nail knot----doubling the lines and with the aid of a drinking straw.....
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Offline SALMONEMIA

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #10 on: Oct 01, 2019, 07:29 PM »
Palomar for 2lb test.  Trilene knot for everything else. Unless its salt but thats another story. What kind of jigs you using.  Ive never seen an eye not accept line for the palomar knot
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Offline stinkyfingers

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #11 on: Oct 01, 2019, 07:55 PM »
Yes, I'll go for it!! I have had probs with that. My fly fisher bros swear by the blood knot for making tapered leaders. I tried that with quite poor results. Mixed results with Uni to Uni. I'm now working on my own version of the nail knot----doubling the lines and with the aid of a drinking straw.....
Well, the crème de la crème of knots for that braid to fluoro connection is the FG knot. (see YouTube) Highest rated for strength and passes through the guides with barely a whisper. Works on the old Chinese handcuff principle it appears to me, harder you pull the tighter it gets. No stubble to snag adjoining coils of line on the reel either. Downside for me is that it's about a four minute knot at my workbench and I wouldn't even try to tie it on the ice since I'm down to one good eye. On the ice I would tie that old workhorse the   back to back uni knot. Good logic, excellent strength and easy to tie even on glare ice with numb fingers. Only downside is you may have a little trim-off stubble that can be annoying.
Real world, what I start out the day with is a Spro power swivel in a size 8 (50#) or even a size 10 (35#), tiny little rascals tied to my braid main line with a good palomar knot. The fluoro then gets a three wrap surgeon's loop that attaches through the other end of the swivel. Those swivels are tiny enough to pass through your guides and even onto the reel if you have to go that far. Easy to replace the leader if it gets nicked up. There are many other perhaps more elegant systems but these pass the test of time.
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Offline Fisherman 1

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #12 on: Oct 31, 2019, 08:45 PM »
Get yourself a needle threader, works on the smallest of hook eyes.   Insert the threader,  place the folded line through the end and pull back the doubled line, now you can still do the palomar knot.  https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+Use+a+Needle+Threader/21024

Offline Bryce

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #13 on: Oct 31, 2019, 10:21 PM »
It's easier for me, rather than pushing a doubled line thru the eye, I push the single line thru hold to form the loop then push the tag end back thru the eye the opposite way.  The line is doubled thru the eye and can the my palomar knot.  If that makes sense to anyone hope it helps.

Offline ice dawg

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #14 on: Nov 01, 2019, 11:18 AM »
It's easier for me, rather than pushing a doubled line thru the eye, I push the single line thru hold to form the loop then push the tag end back thru the eye the opposite way.  The line is doubled thru the eye and can the my palomar knot.  If that makes sense to anyone hope it helps.
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Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #15 on: Nov 01, 2019, 02:58 PM »
Well, the crème de la crème of knots for that braid to fluoro connection is the FG knot. (see YouTube) Highest rated for strength and passes through the guides with barely a whisper. Works on the old Chinese handcuff principle it appears to me, harder you pull the tighter it gets. No stubble to snag adjoining coils of line on the reel either. Downside for me is that it's about a four minute knot at my workbench and I wouldn't even try to tie it on the ice since I'm down to one good eye. On the ice I would tie that old workhorse the   back to back uni knot. Good logic, excellent strength and easy to tie even on glare ice with numb fingers. Only downside is you may have a little trim-off stubble that can be annoying.
Real world, what I start out the day with is a Spro power swivel in a size 8 (50#) or even a size 10 (35#), tiny little rascals tied to my braid main line with a good palomar knot. The fluoro then gets a three wrap surgeon's loop that attaches through the other end of the swivel. Those swivels are tiny enough to pass through your guides and even onto the reel if you have to go that far. Easy to replace the leader if it gets nicked up. There are many other perhaps more elegant systems but these pass the test of time.

Yes indeed---that will work for ice fishing but I'd like to find a good solution for casting in open water.
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Offline Esox fisherman

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #16 on: Oct 05, 2021, 09:07 AM »
Palomar for everything trilene if you can’t do a palomar
For leader I use a modified Alberto knot with no tag ends

Offline stripernut

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #17 on: Oct 23, 2021, 05:04 AM »
Quote
Anybody feel like arguing about braid to fluoro leader connections choices?

I will Debate...

I don't like any of the line-to-line knots and even if they test out strong, to begin with, they weaken over time. Most of the time I use a short leader and use a BB swivel, if I need smaller I have started using Fly fishing Micro Tippet Rings, tiny, strong little rings you tie both lines to and end up with a very strong connection. If I need a longer leader (heavier lines) I use a Wind-On Leader, very strong and long-lasting (the lightest for that is 20lbs). Most of my "work" with leaders and knots come out of open water fishing, often landing "little" Bluefin Tuna on light tackle. 100-200lb fish on 60lb test line (
). My knots have to be perfect and yes many nice fish are landed with an FG knot, but I have seen it fail also... I have been a fishing guide for over 30 years now and I learned very early on that if my clients were using their gear to test their knot, most would fail. What would get them by for their average fish, would not hold up consistently when truly tested. I tie all my knots as if I was going to hook the biggest fish that body of water has to offer and it is a line of thought that has paid off over the years. Many anglers tell me that the systems I use are overkill, but when I or a client hooks the "big One", I don't want to be thinking about if my knot is up to the task. If you watched the video of my fighting that tuna you can see that I put a lot of pressure on that fish and landed it in about half the time many anglers would take (Wind-On) Leader looped on with a Bimini, I can often use it for a full season without replacement and it casts just fine.

Offline slipperybob

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #18 on: Oct 24, 2021, 02:39 AM »
Line to line knots is often about individual knot tying skills and actual line types.  It's very hard to line join thin 1# to 4# lines, but possible.  And even then sometimes, they have a slip failure.  Most important of all is actual line tensile strength as some 10# listed braid actually breaks at like 20# whereas some will barely get to 10# break strength.  Then compare the actual material diameter and there's a huge difference.  As some you can eyeball comparison side by side and still see the diameter difference.

With all of that, I used to believe that my line join knot to knot connection would always be weaker than my direct knot to terminal connection.  While this has often held true with mono or flourocarbon lines, I had just recently discovered that for small diameter braids it's line to line connection knot was holding stronger vs it's terminal connection.

Small diameter braids cuts into itself easier than a larger diameter.  Line to line join with mono gives it that buffer to pinch onto the nylon material.

One of my standard favorites was Sufix 832 braids.  I had the 4# braid on my knot to terminal breaking around 9# on my fish scale, being crudely pulled to failure.  Then when I finally got around to testing a line to line knot on 30# mono with the FG knot, I got a whopping 13# plus knot failure. 

I went back and tested this on a variety of other lines I still have left over and the results were astonishingly that the FG knot was allowing a higher break strength of the line.  I don't think I actually need a 30# mono leader but it's a test of the knot connection.

Because these are hand pulled on a fish scale, I have to tie two knots on both ends.  So I'm tying two knots and seeing which is the weaker one that fails.  Meaning the other knot is holding strong and will probably fail at an even higher test strength. 

In real life usage with light lines.  One cannot burn the tag ends of the braids to form a hang up.  There's just too little of a line material.  I can burn the tag ends of like 20# braids and up easily and that gives me extra insurance on the line to line knot to keep it from unraveling.

I forget to how to tie the FG knot and still have to youtube remind myself.  Meaning I don't retie often.  Usually that one for that entire season or more.

As for fluorocarbon, I don't use such light leaders as it is far weaker.  There's no point in using a 4# fluorocarbon leader when it's going to fail under 3#.
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Offline Mr.Seaguar

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #19 on: Oct 24, 2021, 05:34 PM »
I tie several double granny knots 99% of the time. If you knew the number of fish I have caught you would say I should spend more time with my family. Loop knots work good too if you can use them
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Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #20 on: Oct 25, 2021, 06:00 PM »
I will Debate...

I don't like any of the line-to-line knots and even if they test out strong, to begin with, they weaken over time. Most of the time I use a short leader and use a BB swivel, if I need smaller I have started using Fly fishing Micro Tippet Rings, tiny, strong little rings you tie both lines to and end up with a very strong connection. If I need a longer leader (heavier lines) I use a Wind-On Leader, very strong and long-lasting (the lightest for that is 20lbs). Most of my "work" with leaders and knots come out of open water fishing, often landing "little" Bluefin Tuna on light tackle. 100-200lb fish on 60lb test line (
). My knots have to be perfect and yes many nice fish are landed with an FG knot, but I have seen it fail also... I have been a fishing guide for over 30 years now and I learned very early on that if my clients were using their gear to test their knot, most would fail. What would get them by for their average fish, would not hold up consistently when truly tested. I tie all my knots as if I was going to hook the biggest fish that body of water has to offer and it is a line of thought that has paid off over the years. Many anglers tell me that the systems I use are overkill, but when I or a client hooks the "big One", I don't want to be thinking about if my knot is up to the task. If you watched the video of my fighting that tuna you can see that I put a lot of pressure on that fish and landed it in about half the time many anglers would take (Wind-On) Leader looped on with a Bimini, I can often use it for a full season without replacement and it casts just fine.


What is the advantage of Micro Tippet Rings over using a micr swivel? Both are metal so both will damage the rod eyes when casting with a long leader.
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Offline stripernut

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #21 on: Oct 26, 2021, 07:46 PM »
The rings are very small and stronger than the micro swivels that are available. I don't use long leaders and find they are rarely necessary, if I do, then I use a Wind-On Leader.

Offline RyanW

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #22 on: Oct 27, 2021, 10:23 AM »
I like using a surgeons loop. Simple, strong, and very easy to tie with cold fingers.
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Offline stripernut

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #23 on: Oct 27, 2021, 12:43 PM »
Quote
I like using a surgeons loop. Simple, strong, and very easy to tie with cold fingers.

Sadly it is only around 70% breaking strength of the line... If that works for you, great, but not for me...

Offline Esox fisherman

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #24 on: Oct 30, 2021, 06:04 AM »
Personally in your case I would go with the rapala loop knot
For line to line a modified Alberto knot(message me and I’ll send you video if you would like to see)
Palomar when for all non braid applications
2by2 palomar knot for braid (doubled line through eye twice and two overhand knots)
(Personally I use a palomar knot to attach my line to my spool to

Offline fishinpwk

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #25 on: Nov 22, 2021, 08:57 PM »



This knot works, used it before.

My favorite is the uni-knot for a loop. Cinch down to hook eye, but don't tighten it. Pull the tag end instead to finish. Creates a loop or size a  predetermined loop and tighten from there. Works great.

Depending on line size and material (mono, flouro, etc) knot will slip and cinch at hook eye or stay locked.

Fished with a guide using heavy p-line leader and a three turn uni-knot with small loop at jig eye. Knot didn't budge after landing multipe big lakers that day. Biggest being a 31 lber.

Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #26 on: Feb 05, 2022, 09:37 PM »
back on this again. Trying to tie braid to fluoro with a double uni. The braid seems to cut thru the fluoro at a very low tension. Anybody else have that prob? TIA
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Offline Esox fisherman

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #27 on: Feb 06, 2022, 06:27 AM »
back on this again. Trying to tie braid to fluoro with a double uni. The braid seems to cut thru the fluoro at a very low tension. Anybody else have that prob? TIA

Offline MichiganMan

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #28 on: Mar 08, 2022, 12:42 PM »
After using double uni, FG, slim beauty, binami twist and several others for joining braid to leader. I always, for the last 25yrs return to using alberto and crazy alberto knots for joining lines. Strong, slim, easy to tie. I did not know about the tip he taught in this video. This makes the knot even better. Great video, thank you for posting it.
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Offline RyanW

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Re: Knot question
« Reply #29 on: Mar 08, 2022, 03:22 PM »
Sadly it is only around 70% breaking strength of the line... If that works for you, great, but not for me...

Well, going on three years later, the OP was asking about knots for small jigs. A small jig needs nothing more than a simple surgeons loop especially when dealing with cold fingers. I’ve yet to ever have the knot fail and I use 2#-3# line. We’re talking “small jigs” here. Assuming tungstens for panfish. The strongest thing you’ll encounter is the occasional bass/pike/walleye. I also use a surgeons loop for dry flies and streamers on my spinning setup in the warmer months on 4# line. There’s much more that goes into landing a fish than just the knot you use and your “70% knot strength” data directly contradicts my first hand experience of the last decades worth of year-round fishing using the knot.

So yeah, it does work great for me and I encourage others to try it out, especially for small ice-fishing jigs.
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