Jawjackers

[PennAngler]

58 Pa. Code 63.5  "It is unlawful to use a method for taking fish from this Commonwealth, including boundary lakes and rivers, unless the method is specifically authorized by law or this part."

That's the direct quote from the regulations.  So the relevant question is not "Where are jawjackers prohibited?"  The relevant question is "where in the law or regulations are they 'specifically authorized'"?  They are not specifically authorized, so under this regulation they are unlawful.  It sounds as if PFBC folks have mostly not gone out of their way to enforce this, but if you get written up, they can make it stick.

The Code does authorize "tip ups" but doesn't actually define what a tip up is. Wikipedia defines a tip up as "a device used while ice fishing to suspend live or frozen bait at a set depth through a hole drilled in the ice with an auger, and detect when a fish strikes, without having to be in contact with this piece of gear." There are any number of sources that define a tip up in similar langauge. This is precisely what a Jaw Jacker does. It suspends you bait at a specified depth and detects when a fish strikes.

So I guess I would call it a tip up.   

[Stickhick86]

some people call tip ups fish traps, mine is made with a rat trap so it's the same thing right?

[LEN F]

58 Pa. Code 63.5  "It is unlawful to use a method for taking fish from this Commonwealth, including boundary lakes and rivers, unless the method is specifically authorized by law or this part."

That's the direct quote from the regulations.  So the relevant question is not "Where are jawjackers prohibited?"  The relevant question is "where in the law or regulations are they 'specifically authorized'"?  They are not specifically authorized, so under this regulation they are unlawful.  It sounds as if PFBC folks have mostly not gone out of their way to enforce this, but if you get written up, they can make it stick.

I agree that the above language is the answer. It's there in the content of the wording. So as an example let's say you want to use dynamite like MICK (Paul Hogan) did in "Crocodile' Dundee". Is it legal because dynamite is not specifically mentioned? I don't think so. That's my final two cents on this subject. Thanks to everyone that contributed their take on this. Now lets find some safe ice and drill some holes that are 10" or less!

[RayD2fish]

Look everyone. I’ve made one myself and it’s a no brainer on how they work. A tip up’s flag alerts you that there is a fish on the line. The flag does not set the hook. The trigger on the jj sets the hook. If you think different you don’t understand how they work. It’s up to everyone to take the chance to use one or not to use one if they choose to. Maybe you’ll get a fine, maybe not. I’m not saying the laws make sense.

[peterstaud]

Has anyone actually gotten a citation for using a JJ? The reg's sound pretty gray to me. If I received a citation for one, I would just plead "not guilty", plead my case to the magistrate that it's not banned by the code, and see what he/she has to say about it. The worst thing that could happen is that he/she says I'm wrong and I have to pay a fine (hopefully loss of license is not part of the citation). If it's not going to hold up in court, then PFBC is going to stop bothering people about it or propose to change the law to ban it. Although, I'm sure Harrisburg probably ran it by their counsel before issuing a directive to its staff to issue citations for using them. The question is whether a judge would agree with the interpretation.

The only thing I don't know is if a local magistrate would actually interpret the code or if he/she could elevate it to a higher court to make a decision? Then I have no idea what happens or if I need a lawyer? My luck, I'd probably make it all the way to the state Supreme Court and have it decided that the use of all downriggers in the state of PA is illegal! Then people would really hate me.

Maybe I'm completely wrong with how this all works? I just know I've argued many a traffic ticket to the magistrate, though it was never about the actual code itself

[fatboy8]

Funny this is the first thread I see after logging in for the first time in awhile. Actually almost just pulled the trigger on a pair of these but was hesitant due to always hearing they're illegal. Would enjoy using 1 or 2 just don't want to get hemmed up for it. In the meantime my tip downs will do it for me. 

[hardwater diehard]

I emailed the PA Fish and Boat Commission this is there response...

Unfortunately, “Jaw Jackers” may NOT be lawfully used in Pennsylvania waters.  This electronic mechanical device manipulates the ice fishing rod and physically sets the hook on the independently held rod.  Current regulatory language contained within the Pennsylvania Fishing Regulations pursuant to ice fishing precludes the use of any mechanical and/or electrical fishing device that independently manipulates the fishing rod .

SERGEANT ANTHONY BEERS

Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission

Northwest Region Bureau of Law Enforcement

Cell: 570-406-4046

Office: 814-337-0444

Just a heads up they make a Jigging Jaw Jacker ..this may be what your authority may be referring to

https://www.jawjackerfishing.com/product/jigging-jawjacker-base/

[saphireblue99]

AHHHH YES the jawjackers thread has once again come to life,  would like to hear from any one who has got a citation

[adkRoy]

PA should do what NY did.  In NY we are allowed any combination of 7 lines in the water. It can be 7 tip ups, 7 tip downs, 7 jaw jackers, 7 hand lines, or a mix of all. 

[Spider1]

these days, PA doesn't want to do anything the way NY does it. Just saying.

[fishon814]

these days, PA doesn't want to do anything the way NY does it. Just saying.

I for one would like Pennsylvania to FOLLOW NY's practicices in water quality and fishery management.....theres definitely better fishing opportunities there!

[Icemole]

 I think we are being trolled....     

  Why hasn't the PFBC blasted the announcement all over their website, Instagram, twitter, F/B pages or put out notices in "old school" media.... like they did when they decided to allow 3 rods and multiple hooks(think Alabama rigs) a few years ago OR opened trout season this year?  Jaw Jackers have been out for 5-6 years and are fairly popular so there has been plenty of time to "ban them" .... not a peep from Harrisburg !

[hardwater diehard]

Ok, now I am REALLY confused! This is the response I got:


The Commission has determined that the use of this device, or similar devices by other manufacturers or under different brand names, are NOT authorized for use in the Commonwealth. Although the regulations do not list all unauthorized devices it does state “It is unlawful to use a method of fishing for taking fish from the waters of the Commonwealth, including boundary lakes and rivers, unless the use of the method is specifically authorized by law or regulations set forth in this part.”  The regulations specific to ice fishing state “All rods, lines and tip-ups used by a person engaged in ice fishing shall be under the immediate control of the person using the same.”
 

LtCol Thomas J Burrell

PA Fish & Boat Commission

Bureau of Law Enforcement

717-705-7866

“not under my control?!”    My JawJackers are under my control as much as your tipups or deadsticks!
Somebody please help me understand!

Dont want to poke the bear ...but tip downs are not mentioned as a specific authorized device ...Now What

[Crappiehunter1981]

Please forgive me if this had been previously mentioned in the previous 5 pages of responses but how does a jaw jacker differ from a down rigger.  In both cases the kinetic energy is loaded in to the rod. In both cases a triger is set. And in both cases the kinetic energy is released driving the hook(s) into the fish after THE FISH sets off the trigger.   Just saying it is practically the same thing.

[Boogerhook]

My guess is Cannon downriggers have a little more money to influence lawmakers then jawjacker

[paramedicjake]

Still waiting patiently for some one who has been cited and the details such as WCO or DWCO name and what DJ office it was went to since the UJC is an open site to look up the details ?? Still waiting , anyone , Bueller , Bueller ??

[RuttNutt]

Please forgive me if this had been previously mentioned in the previous 5 pages of responses but how does a jaw jacker differ from a down rigger.  In both cases the kinetic energy is loaded in to the rod. In both cases a triger is set. And in both cases the kinetic energy is released driving the hook(s) into the fish after THE FISH sets off the trigger.   Just saying it is practically the same thing.

That's what most of us are trying to figure out, however everyone at the PF&BC seems to be avoiding the question. They all seem to point at the trigger on the JawJacker as a "mechanical" device, however they will not explain why it is LEGAL on a DOWNRIGGER and NOT on a JawJacker! 

I still have not heard specifically of anyone who has been cited................. ...............just the rumor of someone getting a $150 fine for each device($600 total) recently.

[adamaleski]

I'm just gonna attach my scotty down rigger release clips to my automatic fisherman. Problem solved.

[clayboy]

What is immediate control?  arms length? 5 feet 5 yards 5 miles?

[fishon814]

Probably depends on the fish warden and his relationship with the district magistrate

[gallitzinice]

What is immediate control?  arms length? 5 feet 5 yards 5 miles?

When I was younger it was about 100 yards, now closer to 50. 

[clayboy]

if you have but in most cases 2 arms and 2 hands why do you need 3 rods for open water/ but 5 for the hard top? there are times I cant even handle 1 rod.

[4seasonfishrman]

if you have but in most cases 2 arms and 2 hands why do you need 3 rods for open water/ but 5 for the hard top? there are times I cant even handle 1 rod.

You're not able to cover much water when ice fishing so having 5 devices increases your odds of catching something. 

[StonecoldCat]

   

You're not able to cover much water when ice fishing so having 5 devices increases your odds of catching something. 

  Yep, in summer you fan cast ,move your boat,walk the shoreline or even troll to cover an unlimited area. Each hole in the ice=small area so it's not really as much of an advantage as it sounds. Most use a combo of one or two rods and tipups.

[jimhaney08]

Just an FYI, I saw a petition making it's way around Facebook on the "PA ice conditions + ice fishing swap" group to make Jaw Jackers legal in PA.

[hardwater diehard]

Just an FYI, I saw a petition making it's way around Facebook on the "PA ice conditions + ice fishing swap" group to make Jaw Jackers legal in PA.

Or make them illegal/prohibited ...at least you would know . C'mon Man ..pick a side .

[jimhaney08]

If trolling is legal then the Jaw Jackers should be legal IMO.

[jaeger80]

I'm still using them.  The fish never swallow the hook and release perfectly.  If they would like to cite me for doing so, so be it. 

[Avianarcher]

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea the jawjacker were illegal in some areas. I use them and some homemade versions almost every time I’m on the ice. I guess I’d better read the regs a bit closer, but first I’m going fishing!

[XhardwaterX]

https://www.facebook.com/PaFishandBoat/videos/452933369197433/  pa fish and boat talking legality of jaw jacker as of now an the proposed future of jaw jackers for next year. Fast fwd to 22 min in video.