arctic armor suit

[Loggy]

It isn't CG approved because IDI has not paid the CG to test it and approve it. Maybe they will sometime in the future, but the way people jump ship when another product appears on the market I wouldn't blame them if they don't.

Thanks. It possibly could help sales especially the market for those looking to buy a suit to also serve in cold water boating that meets USCG approval.

[ice dawg]

I think it is pretty expensive to have a flotation device tested and approved through the USCG. This should give some information as to the process involved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

APPROVAL GUIDANCE FOR RECREATIONAL PFDs / LIFEJACKETS:

APPROVAL CATEGORIES:  160.047, 160.052, 160.060, 160.064, 160.076, 160.077


APPROVAL GUIDANCE & INFORMATION:  All PFDs are approved by the Coast Guard, but some require little or no direct USCG review prior to approval.  All PFDs must be tested by the USCG’s Recognized Laboratory, which is Underwriters Laboratories, Inc.  The Coast Guard will do a pre-approval review of any new concept prior to submitting it for testing to the Recognized Laboratory.  (See discussion in “Note” below)  Unless it is a new concept, most recreational PFDs may be submitted directly to the laboratory for approval.

U.S. Coast Guard approval of PFDs manufactured in accordance with any one of the PFD specification subparts must be handled through a Recognized Laboratory. Each of these specification subparts listed below briefly describes the steps involved in obtaining Coast Guard approval.  The corresponding UL standard for each PFD type contains detailed test procedures to be employed to determine compliance with the regulation requirements.

Pre-approval Review: A proposed PFD design (drawing, pictures, sample, etc.) may be sent to the Coast Guard for review of its suitability for approval prior to the PFD being submitted to the laboratory for testing.



Note: A positive Coast Guard evaluation is no guarantee of approval since testing cannot be performed by the Coast Guard. The purpose of the Coast Guard's preliminary review is to identify serious and obvious design problems before the manufacturer starts incurring laboratory test expenses and to determine if any special testing or coordination with the lab may be required. To increase the chances of successful and timely completion of testing at the laboratory, manufacturers should perform all required testing on their own before submitting a device for approval.



In response to the initial inquiry made by the PFD manufacturer, the recognized laboratory will determine a cost estimate for the work. Accompanying the cost estimate will be an application and additional information for the PFD manufacturer.



The manufacturer then submits samples of each model and each size to be tested to the laboratory. Where alternate constructions and/or materials are proposed to be used, samples must be the weakest possible combinations. After receipt of the samples to be tested, along with a signed application, the recognized laboratory will evaluate and test the design against the requirements in the applicable Coast Guard specification subpart and UL Standard(s). A test report and Follow-Up Inspection Procedure will be drafted by the laboratory and sent to the Commandant (G-MSE-4) for review. In most cases, the Procedure is issued to the applicant to start production at the same time it is sent to the Coast Guard. For reports requiring Coast Guard review prior to issuance, the Coast Guard will notify the laboratory whether or not U.S. Coast Guard approval will be granted. The laboratory will, in turn, notify the applicant.


SUBMITTAL PACKAGE:  The initial submittal of a PFD to a Recognized Laboratory will generally include the following, but the laboratory may require additional information:

    * Name and address of the manufacturer and each factory location;
    * Name and address of the company to be listed in the UL Marine Products Directory;
    * Name and address of the company to which USCG approval is to be granted
            (referred to as the "Applicant" in this document);
    * Detailed description of the product - this can be accomplished by means of construction
             description, pictures, engineering drawings, and/or sales brochure;
    * Complete bill of materials (list of all parts and materials used in making the device);
    * Affidavits for standard components that are not certified by an independent laboratory
            inspection program; and
    * Model number(s) of the device(s) and size(s) in each model.

Follow-up Inspection


* Release of Labels: After the laboratory has completed approval testing and, if required, verbal approval has been given by the U.S. Coast Guard, the laboratory will release labels (assign an "issue number" which must be included on the PFDs label) to the manufacturer so that production can begin.


* Frequency of Inspection: Laboratory follow-up inspections are based upon a sampling plan. Visits are made based on the number of devices produced and the extent of controls exercised by the production facility. Approximately 1 visit per 6000 to 24,000 units produced can be expected. Inspection frequency is increased when inadequacies are indicated by test failures, incomplete or inadequate records, consumer complaints, or any other indication of production or quality control problems. The recognized laboratory inspections and tests are not intended to replace or be a substitute for any inspections and tests normally employed by the manufacturer to maintain the quality of the product.


* Annual Testing at the Recognized Laboratory: In addition to the tests conducted during normal production visits, samples of wearable recreational PFDs are sent to the recognized laboratory's testing facilities once a year for examination and testing.

[Loggy]

Yep...takes some work by manufactuer for submission of package to USCG for approval.  The USCG does NOT charge anything for issuance of approval certificate though but testing costs etc are born by the applicant. One would think with the purported AA safety features etc. it would exceed all requirements & smoothly fly right through the testing procedures required for USCG certification. Be interesting to know what the average costs are in connection with this process..

Equipment Approval Information
COAST GUARD TYPE APPROVAL


Type Approval is the primary process for equipment and materials to receive Coast Guard approval.  For equipment or materials to receive Type Approval, they must be demonstrated to comply with the relevant requirements in the regulations, successfully complete the specified tests, and be enrolled in a quality control or follow up program as required.  The quality control or follow up program monitors product uniformity to ensure that it does not deviate from the approved design.  Depending on the type of equipment, the follow up program is generally arranged with the same laboratory that conducted the initial testing or in some cases is carried out by Coast Guard marine inspectors.  Since the Coast Guard does not have its own certification laboratory, it relies on Accepted Independent Testing Laboratories to test materials for compliance with the applicable criteria.  Such acceptance is given for each approval category and test apparatus individually.  Acceptance of a testing laboratory is not retroactive, i.e. testing previously conducted by the laboratory is not automatically accepted.



There is presently no charge by the U. S. Coast Guard for issuing a certificate of approval.   However, all costs at the testing laboratory for testing and for any factory follow-up inspections are the responsibility of the applicant.  Where the Coast Guard supervises tests and inspections outside the United States, the applicant must agree to reimburse the Coast Guard for the travel and subsistence expenses of the inspector.  See NVIC 02-06 for additional guidance covering follow-up programs for fire safety type approval products.

After the successful completion of the required testing, and after all necessary drawings, specifications, and proof of a follow-up program have been received, reviewed and approved by the Coast Guard, a Certificate of Approval will be issued to the applicant manufacturer.  The certificate is valid for five years, and the approval will be listed on the internet at http://cgmix.uscg.mil.



Certificates of Approval may be renewed upon request provided that the equipment or material and the relevant requirements have not changed, and the item has been under a continuous follow-up program where required.  If the material is covered under the Accepted Independent Testing Laboratory's follow-up inspection program and the test standard has not been changed, a new certificate with another five year expiration date may be issued.  In all other cases the material must be retested to the standard in effect at the time of the request for renewal before a new certificate can be issued.


For information on specific Lifesaving and Fire Safety equipment Type Approval requirements, see the equipment approval guidance links located on the CG-5214 home page.

[ice dawg]

Yep...takes some work by manufactuer for submission of package to USCG for approval.  The USCG does NOT charge anything for issuance of approval certificate though but testing costs etc are born by the applicant. One would think with the purported AA safety features etc. it would exceed all requirements & smoothly fly right through the testing procedures required for USCG certification. Be interesting to know what the average costs are in connection with this process..

Equipment Approval Information
COAST GUARD TYPE APPROVAL


Type Approval is the primary process for equipment and materials to receive Coast Guard approval.  For equipment or materials to receive Type Approval, they must be demonstrated to comply with the relevant requirements in the regulations, successfully complete the specified tests, and be enrolled in a quality control or follow up program as required.  The quality control or follow up program monitors product uniformity to ensure that it does not deviate from the approved design.  Depending on the type of equipment, the follow up program is generally arranged with the same laboratory that conducted the initial testing or in some cases is carried out by Coast Guard marine inspectors.  Since the Coast Guard does not have its own certification laboratory, it relies on Accepted Independent Testing Laboratories to test materials for compliance with the applicable criteria.  Such acceptance is given for each approval category and test apparatus individually.  Acceptance of a testing laboratory is not retroactive, i.e. testing previously conducted by the laboratory is not automatically accepted.



There is presently no charge by the U. S. Coast Guard for issuing a certificate of approval.   However, all costs at the testing laboratory for testing and for any factory follow-up inspections are the responsibility of the applicant.  Where the Coast Guard supervises tests and inspections outside the United States, the applicant must agree to reimburse the Coast Guard for the travel and subsistence expenses of the inspector.  See NVIC 02-06 for additional guidance covering follow-up programs for fire safety type approval products.

After the successful completion of the required testing, and after all necessary drawings, specifications, and proof of a follow-up program have been received, reviewed and approved by the Coast Guard, a Certificate of Approval will be issued to the applicant manufacturer.  The certificate is valid for five years, and the approval will be listed on the internet at http://cgmix.uscg.mil.



Certificates of Approval may be renewed upon request provided that the equipment or material and the relevant requirements have not changed, and the item has been under a continuous follow-up program where required.  If the material is covered under the Accepted Independent Testing Laboratory's follow-up inspection program and the test standard has not been changed, a new certificate with another five year expiration date may be issued.  In all other cases the material must be retested to the standard in effect at the time of the request for renewal before a new certificate can be issued.


For information on specific Lifesaving and Fire Safety equipment Type Approval requirements, see the equipment approval guidance links located on the CG-5214 home page.

I changed my post for ya. I spent several years as a Federal Boarding Officer, but never had to deal with the certification end of it.

[Ise De By]

I have the  Red/black AA suit, and while I think it is a good suit, and I like the way it protects me, I am not happy with the stitching and IDI's customer service.  I explained that the butt ripped out of my Bibs and the customer service guy just sent me a copy of their warranty, and said its past 30 days, and that they wont fix my suit,    no cool in my books,  not cool at all for a suit  that cost me  450 bucks here in canada before tax,     If its supposed to be worth almost 500 bucks, stand behind your product.   I wont buy IDI again

[Loggy]

I have the  Red/black AA suit, and while I think it is a good suit, and I like the way it protects me, I am not happy with the stitching and IDI's customer service.  I explained that the butt ripped out of my Bibs and the customer service guy just sent me a copy of their warranty, and said its past 30 days, and that they wont fix my suit,    no cool in my books,  not cool at all for a suit  that cost me  450 bucks here in canada before tax,     If its supposed to be worth almost 500 bucks, stand behind your product.   I wont buy IDI again

A very dismal report indeed!!  Sounds like a company in trouble to say the least.  Sure glad I didn't opt for an AA suit.

[twodogs02]

It isn't CG approved because IDI has not paid the CG to test it and approve it. Maybe they will sometime in the future, but the way people jump ship when another product appears on the market I wouldn't blame them if they don't.

Maybe there is a reason why IDI isn't doing this leg work?

[macchia182]

AA has horrible customer service and their quality has gone way downhill in the past few years.  The Striker Ice Suits are the way to go.  Great customer service and quality that AA only wish they had!!

[finnbear]

       Does anyone have Artic Armor, if so how do you like it?

Ice Wanderer, sorry I am one of the few not so impressed with AA. 1st their customer service is about as poor as a company can offer and still stay in business. The AA suit is very warm, but has no vents, so sweat builds quickly if you walk any distances, I wear wick type under stuff and soon there is nowhere to wick to, you just get real wet and eventually cold. I thought AA would be like fowl weather gear - seeing as how its waterproof, but mine soaked though in a spring rain mixed with snow storm. AA said it was sweat - but only on my right side? which was facing the wind and rain? I hadn't walked more that about 15 feet and I didn't work up a sweat. The Striker suit sounds great - it floats too and has zipper vents where they are needed most.
I will say that AA is very warm, but it has to be on to get the float benefit - I usually walk out with my jacket off and the bibs completely unzipped - not the safest way - but if you buy AA - you will find out how warm it is and how poorly designed it is in comparison to the Striker suit. Good luck and stay safe.

[GILL GRABBER]

must be i got a monday or friday suit. mine started falling apart the first year. I think it is junk. And you want to talk about bad customer service. PM me if you want, my suit has been JUNK!!!!!!

[Fishin_Chip]

I have owned the suit for several years.  The jacket has been very good - light, comfortable, reasonably waterproof and surprisingly warm for its weight.  I have never been happy with the bibs - the sizing is goofy, the extra padding at the knees binds, and my butt ends up wet every time I wear them.  I bought the suit for both summer and winter use, but now the bibs live in the closet and my wife has the jacket.  I plan to check out the Striker Ice real soon!

[hrdcore]

I,ve been thinking about buying a float suit for a couple years now and had a chance to wear a mustang for a weekend and its the suit I'm buying for next season. I wasn't to crazy about the one piece suit at first but i got use to it quick. They keep u very warm,no heat was needed when fishing in the fipover so i,ll be saving $ on fuel and lightening up the load for the big hauls. We did alot of walking that weekend so as far as being to warm i just unzipped the suit, an took my time not to over heat. The way i see it is that the benefits out way the drawbacks on this suit. $350 is a small price to pay for Ur live and i wont have to wear a PFD on the boat.

[surflizard]

   I had the AA Plus suit and it did work great in temps below zero, it was just way too much at 0* or above ! After a couple outings shortened by getting cold from condensation inside the suit, I had pit zips vent put in it, It didn't help ! I traded the AA suit for some tip ups and wrote it off !
  I spent 4 months checking out the Striker suit and also talked directly to the manufacturer and I made the choice to go with the Striker Ice Lite suit ! I've had the suit out in below zero temps with steady 30 MPH winds and all day in pouring rain and not once has the Striker suit built up condensation and made me regret my decision to buy the Striker ! The inner lining material is so much easier to get on and off, the zippers are stronger, there is twice as much storage and the sizing is a lot more accurate then the other suit brands that I've tried and at almost $100 dollars cheaper the the other suits out there, The Striker ice suit is the one for me ! Good luck with what ever suit you decide to get !

[rcjim]

Found out tonight that the arctic armor suit does not do well as a rain suit!! Soaked through after a couple hours of light rain and a couple good soakers. Still can't beat it though for ice fishing

[crappiehunter]

Where did you get out with your suit? I was on Stone today on my yak wearing mine and had the same result. It's warm but a little damp. It does work pretty good for a kayak.