Vexilar Woes.

[Strike Lead]

I mark fish constantly. They follow me up about 2 feet and then they go back to the bottom. I have no problems getting the attention of fish. I switch jigs and bait. Some follow...some they don't. But, as far as taking a bite.....not often. I catch about 2/3 of all the bites but still only catch a few compared to the number of fish caught off the tips.

A guy told me once that the fish that I'm marking are little ones. He said I should back down my gain to see a thin green line so that I'm only seeing the bigger one.

I also noticed that when I get a bonified fish, they attack the jig from the bottom quickly.

Somebody help me out a little....please? I've used the same techniques in other lakes and catch fish fine. At DCL I'm not as successful. Could it be that there's lots of natural food available and they hit real lightly???

[jig-jig THUMP]

StrikeLead,
You must have a bum Vexilar.  Mine only shows fish that are willing to come up and thrash the bait.

jig-jig THUMP

[jig-jig THUMP]

StrikeLead,
But seriously now I have run into the problem that you are metioning.  Try to take note of the speed of fish approach to the bait and how high off the bottom they are willing to come.  If they seem relatively interested but are not hitting your bait then try a switcheroo with your baits and give them something they haven't seen in a while.  That sometimes does the trick for me and I'm able to wrangle a few more out of there.  One thing for sure, when they are hesitant to hit your bait then they are somewhat off and you won't be pounding them with any bait you put down there, but you just have to keep trying til you find something they want more than what they are turning their nose up on.  Don't forget that it is cold down there and they are not full of energy so keep your bait still when they are looking.  Sometimes they seem to shy away even if you are holding as still as possible with your hand (still some vibrations transmitted).  So maybe try setting the rod in a holder and watch your rod tip (springbobber helps) or the line contact with the water.  Just keep trying different things like that until you find something they like that day.

And remember there are sometimes they just aren't interested in much of anything but staying down there and blowing bubbles.

Hope this helps as much as you have helped others.  Hope to meet you up there sometime ON THE ICE this winter.

jig-jig THUMP

[Fat Boy]

Also, think about moving to find active fish. 

Or, if you still have trouble no matter where you go, try scaling down in size.  Often a very tiny bait will tempt even the most finicky fish.  Size 18 Marmooskas glow orange or glow chartreuse tipped with one or two maggots is a very tempting offer.  The brand doesn't matter, but the size does.  The only problem is getting the bait down in deep water.  When I'm fishing deep, I'll use this jig under a slip dropper spoon (like the Custom Jigs n Spins smaller size).  It's basically the same idea behind the Hali Jigs only you are offering a smaller presentation.  Another of my tiny favorites that I don't even think that are made any more is the Shearer punkin' jig size 18.  Size 16 Copeds work well too.  Formerly made by Lindy Little Joe and since replaced by the Genz Worm, the Coped was a vertical presentation, but the tiny two segment size 16 is particularly deadly.  If you can ever get your hands on them they are well worth the money.  And, as always, Bobbers Down jigs in tiny sizes produce well too and are fast becoming a go to bait of mine.

The thing is, big jigs and spoons are popular on Deep Creek and sometimes giving them something a bit different works well.

Oh, and if the dropper spoon seems to spook them, use a split shot or another small jig instead for weight.  Even in deep water, a slow fall of a tiny jig resembles daphnia and plankton better than a heavy jig.  You may have to turn your gain up to see these jigs though

[C.C.]

SL, you just got two good replies and I agree with them. When jig jig told you to hold as still as possible it's hard but work's. I've noticed this some this year. The other thing is, there is a good chance that the fish you are seeing are small one's and the only real way to know is with a camera. I was having the same thing happen to me on a lake earlier this year and forgot to take my camera that day so I borrowed a friend's for a few minutes. Just as I suspected, there must have been school's of 8 or 10 little perch coming through every 2 or 3 minutes. They look like fun on the vex but are a real pain in the butt. Just remember, if you downsize like fat boy said, DON'T jerk very hard when you get a bite, trust me.
       Jim

[icefishnfool]

I ran into this a few times this year ......I found out by down sizing that they were bluegills .....i down sized to 4mm fiskas and slammed them .....Mark

[FishDeepCreek]

I use an FL-18...Adjust your gain so that your bait display is solid green. This will give you a better indication of where the fish are in the transducer cone. I also use an Aqua Vu, with my Vexilar, and being local, I fish Deep Creek all the time-and run into those fish that rise and go back down. Contrary to what some people say about the cams, they are a very usefull learning tool, and will show things that a flasher cant really show you (bottom content, fish species,fish size, general fish feeding mood etc). The Vexilar is a great tool, its not your flasher that is faulty. VERY often when you see those marks that follow- or a boat load of green marks that seem to follow your bait but not strike- they are perch fry! Im talking perch the size of your thumb and not worth pursuing.They tend to just want to play around, or see what your bait is about, once in awhile, youll get a bold one take a swipe. Generally when I see those on the cam, I fish the area a short time,to see if anything else moves in//if not drill some more holes, look again. Most of the real big Perchthat come in will usally be solo, or 2, sometimes 3 together- not always but usally. Usally if there on the feed they dont play around too much, they either eyeball the bait and lip it, or they come in full speed, and nail it. Fishing with a cam is great for light biters, because you are setting by sight rather than feel. Many times youll get the strong red signal on your Vexilar, and not feel a tap because its in it mouth and the fish is not moving or it sucks it in and spits it out (sometimes a few times!)

[Strike Lead]

Great thread, men. I'm just soaking all of this in. I truly appreciate the ideas.

[FishDeepCreek]

One more thing I forgot to add.. is the spinning lure syndrome (SLS! lol) When you notice that your lure signal is flickering on the dial, it is flickering because its more than likely spinning! A spinning jig seems to be a very negative motion, Ive seen Perch that wont hit a jig until it stops spinning. One thing I never do when fishing with jigs, or even spoon type baits, is just open the bail and let the lure drop down fast. First, perch dont like a jig dropped down real fast on them, most of the times ive seen them go splitsville on the cam, however if you lower it very slowly the swim in to investigate or even right up on it to hit. I dont like using swivels when jig fishing (personal prefrence). I bring my bait down very slowly holding the line with my hand as I lower the jig down slowly, and feeding the line with my hand (lift the rod tip up to feed out the line while holding, then lower the line by hand)- this will almost always bring down a jig without making it spin around (for most jigs anyways there are exceptions) Using too much gain on a Vexilar is not always good, youll start picking up junk if you up the power, the low power mode is great for shallower water! If your using and FL-8 they make an S cable to lower its power in shallow water. (Fl-18 has it build in, in its circuitry.)

[icefishnfool]

to stop SLS .....I also use a swivel , made by SPRO and BLACKBIRD ...THESE ARE HIGH QUALITY SWIVELS  made for salmon and steelhead float rod fishing .....very small and high strength ....I use STREN Hi Vis as a main  line and attatch swivel between stren ice green 3# as a leader .....works great 
and as far as those Perch I do usually get the lone jumbo's , but 1 day last year I caught 7 super jumbo's out of the same hole in 5 minutes in  5 FOW

[Fat Boy]

This thread has some good thoughts.  After the ice season is over when we clean out the state pages, I'll be moving this to the general tips section.  I may change the title slightly so that this becomes a techniques discussion rather than an electronics one.  Sound OK to you guys?

[Rockfish]

I agree with Fishdeepcreeklake about the fish behavior.  I fish exclusively with an aqua-vu (how much electronics does a guy need?) and most of the time when you seem multiple fish come in they're little guys.  The pigs usually arrive as singles or doubles.  Ditto about drop speed.  I've sat there and watched nice perch stare at a NM jigging shad I've been working for walleye and tried to drop something smaller down to temp them only to see them scatter as the jig touches down.  I've seen it happen time and time again.... 

Rockfish

[FishinAddiction]

I have read articles that people say fish can feel the sonar waves bounce of them and will shut them down especially in shallow water. They say to turn the gain so it is not putting out so much power once they are  there and turn up the sensitivity. This is one of the those theories to me that will probably never be proven.   

[Fat Boy]

I think that when fish act like that it's probably due to adverse weather conditions.  When they are on the feed they will hit in shallow water, Vex or not!

Now, this year, for reasons mentioned on this thread and from discussing these issues with others, I broke down and purchased an Aqua view Scout.  Well, first time out on the ice last weekend with it and guess what, it doesn't work.  Gotta send it back.  Good thing is that I went ahead and upgraded to the Scout II.  A little more investment but the screen is bigger and it seems a bit more portable and all.  I'm looking forward to using it.

And, to add to this original thread, I can't say whether or not this has happened to me at Deep Creek, but on some other lakes I've worked lookers and light biters, trying everything above including downsizing to rediculously small baits and...

...caught a shiner, golden shiner, tiny perch or tiny gill. 

My camera should help me figure this out sooner. 

But, another solution is to move and find active fish.  Being mobile is one of the key golden rules of jigging and this is a great time to do it.  Ironically, my last trip in SW PA this season with Polar Bear, I was very reluctant to move no matter what was going down underneath me.  I marked a lot of fish, a lot of lookers, but the conditions outside my fish trap were, at best, unbearable.  Jeez, 30 mph sustained winds and single digit temperatures!  It was so friggin cold out there that my eyes teared up and froze.  I had to wipe, em off to keep my eyes from getting frost bit.  Well, OK, I'm exaggerating now, but you get the point.  I was wrong that day, if I really really wanted to catch more fish, then I should have battled the conditions and moved instead of sitting over non-biters.  My catch rate would have been much higher.  Getting older and wiser is supposed to work for the betterment of your fishing skills, but what I've actually learned over the last few years that sometimes being warm and cozy overrides the drive to catch fish   I need to work to change that in the future because I can't bring those fishing opportunities back, gotta take advantage when I can.

Mark, if you go with me again and see me sitting there doing that again, will ya flip my fish trap lid open and give me a smack on the back of the head please?

[Strike Lead]

I'm with you...FatBoy. Move!

In fact, as I get older I find that in hunting and in fishing, the best thing I can do to be more successful is go out with different people. Try different things. I have a tendency to try the same old same old too long. Because it once worked doesn't mean it will today. I will get real conservative and stay with the old tactics, swearing that "I know how to fish". Three years ago, a new guy at work, who was in his late 20's wanted to hunt/fish with me. He took me places that had given up on 20 years ago........and wham....my production soared. This was especially true with trout fishing and bow hunting.

With ice fishing, I take a hundred jigs along and only used 3-4. I have better days when I try something new to start, instead of going to something new when all else fails! You're right......move!