NEW BAIT REGULATIONS

[Snafu]

 I went to the SouthTowns walleye meeting last nite, and Don Einhouse was there. He explained the latest reg's for Lake Erie and Upper Niagara.  You now can use minnows from the upper Niagara, to fish Lake Erie, (They no longer consider them 2 seperate bodies) HOWEVER, (as stupid as this sounds, it's true) if you Dip minnows from the River, you can only transport by your boat over the water. .  So you could drive your Boat all the way up to the Catt. and fish, BUT you can't dip, and put them  in a car or truck, for over road travel, and then fish.   Vise versa for the Catt.  You can dip from your dock, but cant  land transport back to the river. Only by water.   Absolutley NO  OVER LAND TRANSPORTATION> It's as crazy as it sounds. And when purchasing minnow's from a dealer,  you are to get a reciept, good for the life of the bait, up to 7 days, when at that time it expire's, and you spend $6 more founding fathers.   

[crayfishbob]

DOC I HAD A BIG ? MARK IN MY HEAD ABOUT THIS ALSO BUT LET ME TRY TO EXPLAIN.
 SUPPOSE JOE SMOE HAS A DOCK SIDE BAIT SHOP. JOE GOES OUT TO HIS PIER AND HARVESTS SOME MINNOWS. JOE CANNOT TRANSPORT THOSE MINNOWS. BUT JOE CAN SELL THEM OFF HIS DOCK TO BE USED IN THE WATERS BY HIS DOCK TO THE FIRST IMPASSABLE BARRIER.
BIG CATCH BAIT IS NOT DOCKSIDE SO THEY WOULD NOT BE LEGAL TO SELL UNCERTIFIED BAIT. THE KEY WORD HERE IS "NO TRANSPORTATION BY MOTORIZED VECHILE ON NYS ROADS".
yea buck i think that's what they have intended in the law.Might be a good opportunity for big catch. but would have to be a better location than smithboys. small boat harbor? maybe Just wish this whole vhs thing would pass.

Calm down man !

They took care of that. And yes, I had a big part of that decision from what transpired just prior to the new regs. The head dec officer of the state came out and wanted to know how the bait gets to and from the lake-cages-shop. They addressed this issue by allowing a pernit from DEC, For bill, he can get one that permits transport from his cages to his shop.. Then he can sell his minnows with a reciept that says "for lake erie only" instead of saying its certified.

Its the fishermen who wanted something like this and its going to work !

Yeah- I wish this vhs nightmare would go away, but lets please try to follow the rules so it can be at least controlled. The state needs OUR cooperation !

[Mr.Esox]

Bluegill I live in Southeastern N.Y. the local baitshops have had to change there suppliers one has already closed. The price of bait has already went up and supply  is a problem. Your situation might be different but what I stated is factual for where I live, for reservoir fisherman remember there will be No Sawbellies (Alewives) these are not tested, you must catch your own and do not transport them over land. Again does anybody no what the other states bordering the lakes have enacted in rule changes ?

[Flag!!Man]

This is one of the Paragraphs listed on the New Emergency VHS regs posted on the DEC website...
Bait fish sold for retail or transfer that has been certified may be transported overland and used as bait provided that the angler has a copy of a sale receipt that states the bait is certified and has the name of the selling vendor, date sold, species of fish sold, and quantity of fish sold. A receipt is valid for seven days from the date of sale.

It says that the receipt must have stated that the fish have been certified disease free...I bought some minnows yesterday from Gander Mountain...On it it states the kind of minnow, the date & the amount, but nowhere does it literally say that the fish have been certified??? Can I be ticketed??  Called DEC Law enforcement region 5; still waiting for a return phone call??  Called the 1-877# and they said fisheries would PROBABLY know, but they aren't in till Mon??? Said I wanted to go fishing tommorow & now I am again waiting for a reply back. (1-877# I'm referring to is for Law Enforcement, Listed on 1st page of Reg Book)

[JJ]

Gander can only sell certified bait, you will be OK.

[Flag!!Man]

It does not state that on the receipt anywhere though thats what's worrying me because of the way the new Emergency Regs are worded

[JJ]

I'm sure you will be alright, regs just came out this week and details are still being worked out. They will probably have a standard form to use for bait receipts eventually from what I hear. I noticed the regs state that the "species" of bait must be listed, which is more specific than minnow, shiner, sucker, hunt, etc. What did your receipt say?

[Flag!!Man]

Med. Golden Shiner

[Flag!!Man]

Has anyone received a receipt that says certified on it?

[Flag!!Man]

Just spoke with Two DEC officers over the phone; One which works the area in which I am fishing tommorow. He was very quick with a return phone call after I had left him a message! It may have even been his day off according to the first officer I spoke with. Anyway, It is mandatory for certified to be printed on the receipt but the officer I spoke with said not too worry about it for tommorow. He gave me his name to forward to any other officers that may approach me. He said that Gander Mountain has yet to upgrade the way their computer prints out the receipts.
Also, Made a comment to him that these regulations will be in effect to at least June, right? He said that these regulations are looking to be a permanent thing. He also said that VHS is a very serious issue!

[024gord]

I have salted minows left over from last fall in zip lock bags.according to how I read the new regs. these are legal if they are kept in commercial packing.this is how they were sold in zip lock bags .so does this mean if I am caught using these bags while trout fishing in a lake erie tributary , that will be ticketed??

[SpEeD]

Ok so most of us on the internet forums know about the new regulations regarding the minnow ban,needing receipts and whatever other regs they have come up with recently BUT what about all the other thousands of fisherman out there that are clueless about it all?? Is the DEC going to mail out the new regulations to everyone that had bought a fishing licence prior to all the new regs that have been put in place since they purchased it?? Say someone does get ticketed by the DEC for breaking one of the new minnow rules that they had no clue about and wasn't included in the reg book.The book isn't even updated yearly so you would think a judge would have to throw it out of court based on the fact the DEC haven't notified you of the new law since purchasing your licence prior to it all?? Just wanted to know your thoughts on this as I surely plan on NOT throwing my minnows out after the 7 day receipt has expired and will take my chances on all this without hurting the fisheries either. I don't think my certified minnows could catch vhs  by going fishing with me a few times and then sitting in the bucket in my garage? Fatheads are very hardy and I cant see wasting them just because a receipt has expired

[Mr.Esox]

I agree with SpEeD THEY SHOULD INFORM ALL THE FISHERMAN they are the ones being ignorant. In today's society we have countless ways of informing people. Try just a little and spend the time and money they certainly didn't have a problem making the rule change, now inform the people.

[eyedoktr]

I agree with SpEeD THEY SHOULD INFORM ALL THE FISHERMAN they are the ones being ignorant. In today's society we have countless ways of informing people. Try just a little and spend the time and money they certainly didn't have a problem making the rule change, now inform the people.

When they made the law requiring drivers to have your headlights on with windshield wipers, did they send you a note? NO !!!
 BTW, driving lights are not headlights and don't count

It's up to each of us sportsmen to know the laws and obey them

I too think that 7 days is poor. Give the person at least 2 full weekends.

[IceGeek]

When they made the law requiring drivers to have your headlights on with windshield wipers, did they send you a note? NO !!!
 BTW, driving lights are not headlights and don't count

It's up to each of us sportsmen to know the laws and obey them

I too think that 7 days is poor. Give the person at least 2 full weekends.

I agree eyedoc...the 7 day thing seems a little unfair....besides chances are when you go back to get bait from the bait dealer there are minnows in his tanks that are more than 7 days old.....The bait guy doesn't have to throw his out after 7 days....even 10 days would allow 2 weekends worth.....

[SpEeD]

When they made the law requiring drivers to have your headlights on with windshield wipers, did they send you a note? NO !!!
 BTW, driving lights are not headlights and don't count

It's up to each of us sportsmen to know the laws and obey them

I too think that 7 days is poor. Give the person at least 2 full weekends.

Dok - They plastered the headlight\wipers laws all over the mainstream media so ignorance would be hard to plea on that one for sure. Have you seen anything on the mainstream media regarding the minnow bans\7 day rule?? I havent and think that is going to be the problem with most innocent\unknowing anglers including the guys that do indeed trap\catch there own minnows that do not go into a bait shop to even hear about the new regs. The problems with laws like this is if it turns a normally law abiding sportsmen into a criminal it will only lead to more flaunting of the laws and disrespect for the enforcers like the DEC folks. I hate the fact that I will be forced to break the 7 day rule but some nonsense regulations just ask for it.
Now if someone could indeed convince me that I could possibly spread the vhs by using my certified minnows after the expired 7 day receipt then I would be the first to waste them away when I am done using them. Thanks for your input!

[stringer]

Well said and agree totally!!!

[howesfc]

I agree also about the 7 day period for certified minnows suck's.
I have kept fatheads alive for months in the winter.
I also think the great state of New York could afford to make some public anouncements on VHS.
There are fishing licenses sales outlets like Walmart that have no clue to the VHS regulations.
Maybe by not informing the public the state plans on making some money!
And how many will they chase out of the sport for being Ignorant TO THE LAW!

[HomerJay]

I  know this was talked about but it wasn't clearly answered. I think i tried to scan what everyone said so if i am repeating sorry.  

If you were fishing in a RIVER, and you catch your bait in the river at one spot.  That spot sucks and you want to move you have to dump the bait you caught move to anyother spot on the river. Which usually involves driving.  

Also what about Pennsylvania.  I live on the Delaware river on the new york side. The border is the river for a long while. So if i want i can go over to the PA side and use whatever bait fish i want??  And why can they over in PA not follow the same rules?? So it wouldnt make a difference if they arent doing it.

[piscesman]

I too think the 7 day rule stinks to high heaven...........The bait shop owners and the bait farms may be inconvenienced by the VHS regs but they are making money all the while. I don't believe that all the minnows that have been certified are kept separated from each other. There aren't enough tanks for all the different minnows in these shops for that to happen. You certainly aren't going to throw out 10 dozen minnows because it's been 7 days are you. They cost too much to do that. Why ask the HONEST fisherman to do it though??? I have leftover minnows that are certified from 3 different shops. I can't go fishing every weekend so I try to keep them alive. When I can go again they are coming with me. They were VHS free before I got them and they sure are still free now. It's more than being inconvenienced. It costs money to go to the bait shop every 7 days to purchase new minnows. Gas is going up as with everything else. Something will give. Probably less fishing trips by this 7 day rule. That translates to fewer fisherman going to bait shops and less money to bait shops too. It hurts everyone one down the line. I'm not bashing bait shops or bait farms, just making an observation of things to come if this 7 day rule sticks................ ...
      Kim   

[stickyfingerdpuppeter]

I agree the 7 day rule stinks.Im sure the bait shop owners are going to have a very good jump in sales since this law passed.If they outlaw fishermen completly from catching their own bait then i wana get into bait sales.

[wert]

i have heard nor seen anything on all these new regs. whats with the dec not keeping fishermen posted? newspapers tv flyers something! millions of buckeyes travel the length and whith of state waterways spreading what they have where they go. all the regs amount to afart in awind storm and a pain in my rectum. dec please sit and formulate aworking plan that will both benefit us and the minnows. i ment billions an. perhaps trillons of emeral shiners. sorry about grammer and spelling

[SpEeD]

Here is the new law below my rant copied from the DEC website as stupid as it is - Punish\Inconvenience 99% of the certified bait buying fisherman because of the 1% that may transport illegal minnows which I am sure they will do anyhow seeing as there is no mass media information going out to all fisherman!! Real smart thinking on that one!! Then to top it all off they want you to just kill the certified minnows when done using them on top of it - Talk about waste! And to think people complain about seeing small dead perch laying on the ice? WOW! BTW - when was the last time you seen a zebra mussel in your bait bucket after buying bait? Lets hope the DEC rule makers come to there senses on the 7 day rule when deciding to make the laws permanent!! Personally I do think the DEC was swayed by the bait shop owners on this one for sure!


7. Why is a receipt for certified bait fish valid for only 7 days?

A receipt for certified bait fish is valid for 7 days to reduce the risk of people using a receipt to transport uncertified bait fish. Seven days was judged to be adequate to give people enough time to use leftover bait fish on another fishing trip while keeping the risk of using a receipt to transport uncertified bait fish low.

8. What do I do with my unwanted left over bait fish?

Leftover bait fish should never be released or dumped (if dead) into a water of the state of New York. You should also dispose of your bait bucket water on land and not into New York’s waters. This will help reduce not only the risk of fish diseases like VHS, but of other aquatic hitchhikers such as zebra mussels.

[mcully]

Baby zebras swim in water until they find a place to hook onto. Your bait bucket is the same as a ships ballast. I personally don't think I fish any water that doesn't already have zebras though, at least none comes to mind. The 7 days is BS I've got buckeyes in the garage that I've had for several weeks. Maybe the thought is they can pick up VHS if you change out bait shop water with fresh from where you are fishing? To me this just seems like a dream trying to stop something you can't see. we can't even stop carp from spreading this way from the Mississippi waters and they are huge. I see gobies were stopped dead too. Not saying we shouldn't give it an effort but just seems unrealistic when you think of how water flows and what potentially could be in it. Maybe these regs will keep it out of some of the smaller inland water basins but the lake Ontario drainage no way. I'll follow what comes out but blood laws in this situation looks like too little too late regulate ballast water the way you were supposed to and these hitchhikers wouldn't be here. JMO

[stickyfingerdpuppeter]

I was reading on another topic"panfish fish sales"how a bait dealer who is well known on here because of all his extreme efforts to help stop the spread of v.h.s. he was saying the fact that he had part in pan fish sales he hoped would not sway people the other way in HIS fight?,  , im sorry i mean-- to stop v.h.s no i personally do not think its gona sway people the other way as he put it.I do belive if other fishermen think aboat this seven day rule and take a good look at everything he is doing all his post, replyng daily ,even when his pc is down ,and constantly talkn aboat his bait,baitshop,his site,and efforts not to mention all the time<time and gas to gandermountn "informative meetings" ? he created.And these facts 1.FACT HE is a bait dealer. 2.FACT He has stated he is going into the whole sale bait buessness. 3.FACT He knows bait sales will now go up because of this no sense 7 day rule i wonder who had part pushing for that????anyone??? 4. FACT bait prices will go up.FACT you will be paying more for bait along with your gas this summer 5. FACT if he gets n.y.s to buy the bigone"no personal collection and use in same waters""bait buessness will be booming"which he is pushing for and the more of us he convinces the better his chances.6.FACT Bait fish sales is real big buessness on one of these post i read a baitdealer?spent $$150,000 on a new truck and system to transport bait in .THATS ALOTA MONEY.  And yes speEd i agree with you it does somehow seem the bait dealers helped push this sense less 7 day rule.I guess its not so senseless to the bait suppliers.I belive these facts might sway people not to buy everything as given.Im all for fighting v.h.s im not into sensless laws.I put up facts cause its hard to argue with the facts.And im not into arguing.sometimes you dont have to argue things somtimes speak for themselfs when you look close enough. But if your talking aboat senseless laws i and fellow fishermen need to follow im gona speak up for the truth and what i feel is right.In no way am i saying not to fight the sread of v.h.s but lets do it in a way that works and not to restrict us fishrmen in anyway unless its a fesable rule that will indeed help stop the spread of v.h.s

[Mr.Esox]

Guys, I have been looking at the big picture there are 8 states that are involved with forming there own regulations on VHS, so far 4 of them have no regulations in effect with using certified bait or personally harvested bait. If it comes from outside there state it must be certified. I would say N.Y. REGULATIONS are over the top., and remember this is to protect the fish farmer. This is really where this started.

[JJ]

It seems no one really likes the 7 day rule, yet I have not seen one suggestion for an alternative. This part of the emergency regs (they are not permanent) came about because 1) everyone complained that without receipts, the rules were unenforcable. 2) A receipt lasts seven days so a guy can't go out and buy one batch of bait, then use the same receipt for bait he traps. I think 14 days would work better, but posting on here will do little; there is another PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD under way, if you don't like the most recent emergency regs, contact DEC with your feelings. Well thought out comments will be given consideration, but if you send them some sort of rant (like many posts here), it probably won't even be read.

[RedWolfUSAF]

I was reading on another topic"panfish fish sales"how a bait dealer who is well known on here because of all his extreme efforts to help stop the spread of v.h.s. he was saying the fact that he had part in pan fish sales he hoped would not sway people the other way in HIS fight?,  , im sorry i mean-- to stop v.h.s no i personally do not think its gona sway people the other way as he put it.I do belive if other fishermen think aboat this seven day rule and take a good look at everything he is doing all his post, replyng daily ,even when his pc is down ,and constantly talkn aboat his bait,baitshop,his site,and efforts not to mention all the time<time and gas to gandermountn "informative meetings" ? he created.And these facts 1.FACT HE is a bait dealer. 2.FACT He has stated he is going into the whole sale bait buessness. 3.FACT He knows bait sales will now go up because of this no sense 7 day rule i wonder who had part pushing for that????anyone??? 4. FACT bait prices will go up.FACT you will be paying more for bait along with your gas this summer 5. FACT if he gets n.y.s to buy the bigone"no personal collection and use in same waters""bait buessness will be booming"which he is pushing for and the more of us he convinces the better his chances.6.FACT Bait fish sales is real big buessness on one of these post i read a baitdealer?spent $$150,000 on a new truck and system to transport bait in .THATS ALOTA MONEY.  And yes speEd i agree with you it does somehow seem the bait dealers helped push this sense less 7 day rule.I guess its not so senseless to the bait suppliers.I belive these facts might sway people not to buy everything as given.Im all for fighting v.h.s im not into sensless laws.I put up facts cause its hard to argue with the facts.And im not into arguing.sometimes you dont have to argue things somtimes speak for themselfs when you look close enough. But if your talking aboat senseless laws i and fellow fishermen need to follow im gona speak up for the truth and what i feel is right.In no way am i saying not to fight the sread of v.h.s but lets do it in a way that works and not to restrict us fishrmen in anyway unless its a fesable rule that will indeed help stop the spread of v.h.s

I don't think the person you're referring to has done or said anything to warrant this attack..... He's been out front trying to educate everyone and get to the bottom of a problem.....

[doctariAFC]

It seems no one really likes the 7 day rule, yet I have not seen one suggestion for an alternative. This part of the emergency regs (they are not permanent) came about because 1) everyone complained that without receipts, the rules were unenforcable. 2) A receipt lasts seven days so a guy can't go out and buy one batch of bait, then use the same receipt for bait he traps. I think 14 days would work better, but posting on here will do little; there is another PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD under way, if you don't like the most recent emergency regs, contact DEC with your feelings. Well thought out comments will be given consideration, but if you send them some sort of rant (like many posts here), it probably won't even be read.

Agreed.  A public comment period is currently open.  I believe it ends in late April, like @ 27th?  I'll have to check my correspondence for the exact close of the comment period.

You may submit your comments to Mr Shaun Keeler in Albany.  

As CaptJJ stated, do not send in rants.  They get tossed.  Provide a brief concern, and offer an alternative plan.  The DEC is looking at ways to stem the potential spread of pathogens, not just VHS, and have chosen the route of time with bait, vs personal limits on purchased bait.  

If you have an alternative idea, please present it as professionally as possible.  One thing we must be aware of is that things are indeed going to change.  Some things we will not like (no one likes change), but if you have a choice between being able to only buy 100 minnows or buying unlimited minnows, but can only effectively use them for 7 days after purchase, which would you prefer?  I know I'll take the 7 days over a 100 fish limit (alive or dead in combo!).

So...  Let's constructively examine these regs and try to move forward as best we can.  

In terms of transporting bait you catch on your own....  Not in your car.  You may go by boat or by foot, but not by car.  That is open for comment as well.

Again, public comment periods are here for our benefit.  Let's use that time to express in a professional fashion the issues you may have with the new regs.  Input is needed, provide it, please.

[wert]

not inyour car? where is this info coming from?