minnow ban -update

[taxi1]

Sounds good in practice but in reality it has been a different thing in the past. As someone that has had to deal with importation requirements i.e. disease certification to import trout to my fish farm and as fish procurement officer for a trout club, I can tell you from experience no state was alike in their regulations. In fact, some even worked against each other. What we needed then, and what we need now, is for all the states to come together with the same regulations. Like you said  they need to work together. I don't see that happening yet as New York is the only state so far that has jumped on the band wagon, and they've actually gone too far IMHO. It was a knee jerk reaction.

Testing trout for heterosporis is kind of silly when there's no history of it affecting trout. There are other pathogens on that new list that have no history of effecting other species. I have never heard of a bluegill or largemouth bass coming down with  enteric Red Mouth, Infectious Pancreatic Necrosis Virus, or Spring Viremia of Carp Virus. It's crazy. The problem is VHS type 4 and your DEC went crazy and threw the baby out with the bathwater. New York has gone from being the most lax in the Great Lakes to the most strict. What happens when you go too far is you get people going under the radar and ignoring regulations, and you negate what you set out to do in the first place.

As far as preventing fish and bait from moving around without certification they are VHS free I don't have a problem with that. It's all the other crap your DEC dumped on the Aquaculture industry that isn't even related. I still say they are picking the low hanging fruit, which are the private fish farms and those that are registered, as there isn't much they can do with the situation in the wild. They need to get serious at the boat ramps and get people to quite transferring water, fish, and aquatic plants. Until they do that, this thing will keep spreading. 

If you'd like to read an article I wrote with an accompanying table to compare various states on their importation requirements on trout in the past, you can go to this link. At the time New York DEC didn't take it very seriously as you can see in the table. You'll get to see how every state does it's own thing.

http://aquanic.org/newsltrs/state/indiana/IAAI14-1(2005).pdf

IAAI (Indiana Aquaculture Assocation)
President
Cecil Baird



 

[youngster]

theyre still selling emeralds down at local bait shops even after all the controversy....   guess im done worrying about it im gettin a bucket today and goin fishin

[pembroke]

The reason bait shops and suppliers are still selling bait is that no one has been notified of any ban. I called the DEC office in Avon and the nice lady there told me that the law was in affect, but she didn't sound to sure. She went on to say that all permit holders had been notified last week. So i called 2 suppliers and they said they have not been notified and i have not been either. Then she referred me to the central office and have yet to get a call back. I salted or otherwise killed all of my bait last week but many shops continue to sell. I think the DEC should get with it and let everyone know the law and get us some handouts to give to our customers.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

[iceenut]

. I think the DEC should get with it and let everyone know the law and get us some handouts to give to our customers.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

I agree, with all the rumors and  stories swirling around nobody really knows what the heck is going on.

[pembroke]

I just got off the phone with the Dec, a emergency order was put in place last Tuesday. This order bans all transportation in NY State of any live fish. It also bans commercial collection of bait. You can still as a individual collect and use 100 minnows in the same body of water in which it was collected. there is going to be a comment period on this order within the next month before the order becomes law. One thing we should all try to get passed with this is that you should be able to collect bait fish as an individual or as a business if you immediately kill them in salt. This will at least give us dead bait to use. Please make your voices heard during this comment period wether you are for or against.
every one thinks that we will be able to get bait from out West as long as it is certified, but their are some problems with that also. there is at least one item on the testing list that no one has ever check on in the past. That item is Spring Viremia of carp virus (infectious carp dropsy) from what I have heard that poses a problem for fish farms to detect.
None of this is good news for those of us who own small bait shops. We have already started to sell some items not related to fishing, if we don't do something to bring in extra money we will join the long list of shops that have already closed or those that are about to.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

[taxi1]

I honestly don't know but I'm not so sure salt would kill the virus. Virus's can be very tenacious. I'll have to do some checking with a fish pathologist and get back to you unless you have already heard it would? 

[Ray4852]

Salt won’t kill the virus, it preserves the bait.

[taxi1]

Salt won’t kill the virus, it preserves the bait.

I know it preserves the bait! 

My point was if you could still transmit the virus even though you salted the minnows. That is if the minnows were infected with the virus.

[youngster]

i feel for you guys in the business

[taxi1]

This is what Dr. Lin if Purdue's ADDL lab gave me regarding VHS and salt.

"According to OIE Mannual, “survival of VHS virus is dependent on virus strain and physiochemical condition of aqueous medium.  A marine VHS islate diluted in salt water remains infectious for more than 10 months.  VHS virus survives for longer periods at 4 degree C compared with 20 degree C.”  Therefore, without challenge healthy fish with treated virus to see if the virus is still active to cause infection, it is not going to reach a solid conclusion regarding salting the fish."

Considering the VHS type 4 may have originally mutated from a saltwater form, salting dead minnows might not be acceptable if anyone is concerned about transfer of the virus (that is if the minnows were even infected.)

Personally I still thing this is overblown considering up to only 10 percent of the fish populations in those "massive" fish kills died. The gobies certainly won't be missed. Sounds to me like some fish are immune or have developed an immunity already.

[Ray4852]

It’s a tough business to be in that’s why you don’t see many bait shops around anymore.

[crayfishbob]

I talked to the head guy at DEC in charge of this whole matter this morning. I can harvest all the emeralds I care to from certain waters in the state. Right now I have about 250 lbs in a holding cage, and plan on harvesting more.

We spent a great deal of time talking about bilge water and the canal system. Getting the coast gaurd involved and public awareness is going to be a top priority.

What the law regarding my situation where I can harvest says is that I have to have them tested  and certified before selling them. If I cannot collect enough to pay for it, then its time to release them. Meanwhile, I will try like heck to get as many as I can together.I may have to go in hock to get the testing done, or find a partnership in this matter.

What the BIG thing here is to find reliable, efficent vetinary services that has the capability of testing them. In addition to that, you have to hold them for 25 days AFTER getting them tested.  Right now there is one place in maine, and i'm not going through all that expence. $1600 Nobody in this business can.

Fathead minnows and other aquaculturally raised baitfish also fall into the category of having to be tested too. It is stated as such that fish to be released into the waters of he state has to be tested.

Also, I collect fatheads from about 12 different places. each place produces less than 100 lbs. Without economical ways for testing, then those places will have to rest for now until this blows over.

[taxi1]

You might want to check around Bob. I had someone tell me today that the place I referred you to in Maine is one of the most expensive places to have testing done, although they are fast and professional. Here in my state it's also done by one of our universities. And you can have it done in out of state universities too.

I'm thinking your state will drop some of the tests they are calling for now. Some of those diseases are only endemic to trout but they want the warm water species tested also, and some of those diseases are only endemic to warmwater fish but again they want the trout to be tested for them. I guess it's what they call the "shotgun approach." A waste of money IMHO.

[pembroke]

When i talked to theDEC they said dead bait is not affected by the ban. It is also my understanding that this virus is carried by the urine of the fish. So the salt is used to kill the fish and preserve them not to kill the virus. The current ban while it may allow dipping states that transportation on any live fish without a certificate is against the law. there is allot of miss information out there and some of it is coming from the state. so be careful so you don't get fined.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

[Ray4852]

Larry, it’s good to here we can use dead bait. will the dec allow us to catch our own bait for our own personal use? Example, can a guy catch bait from Lake Erie and use it in that lake, also can we use Lake Erie bait inland too as long as it is dead. I understand we cant transport live bait around with this new law.

[taxi1]

When i talked to theDEC they said dead bait is not affected by the ban. It is also my understanding that this virus is carried by the urine of the fish. So the salt is used to kill the fish and preserve them not to kill the virus. The current ban while it may allow dipping states that transportation on any live fish without a certificate is against the law. there is allot of miss information out there and some of it is coming from the state. so be careful so you don't get fined.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

Someone better tell the viruses they are not allowed to live on dead bait!    I'm all for letting you guys get some leway but this doesn't sound consistent if you want to stop the spread of a virus. I haven't heard about the spread by urine of the fish. But since fish essentially live in their own waste products I don't see how that would make any difference.

I think I'll keep my trap shut now. I will sit back see what comes of this situation in your state. Our state had a big meeting yesterday but the silence is deafening. No details whatsoever.

[pembroke]

Larry, it’s good to here we can use dead bait. will the dec allow us to catch our own bait for our own personal use? Example, can a guy catch bait from Lake Erie and use it in that lake, also can we use Lake Erie bait inland too as long as it is dead. I understand we cant transport live bait around with this new law.

You just ask the $64,000.00 question no one at this time knows.
Larry Ditzel
Pembroke Bait

[Bartel Rd. Bait & Tackle]

for non commercial purpose's we will be allowed no more than 100 baitfish in possession at any given time
and are advised to use them in the water's they where caught.
I also had a long talk with an individual in Albany today and the bottom line
is that as of last tuesday COMMERCIAL NETTING OF BAITFISH IN THE GREAT LAKE'S IS BANNED
for good. he say's he know's it's extreme however they feel it's the best possible starting point to
contain it
he also told me they are currently testing dozen's of other lake's and the baitfish and gamefish in them to determine if the disease has spread farther than is known. I made it clear that there is alot of rumor and conjecture going around and he said there will be a major public announcement forthcoming

to find the actual emergency order(I gave him hell because it was so hard to find) go to the ny dec website
click on subject index scroll down to f and click on FISH then click on vhs link go to the bottom of the page and there is a link named Emergency order it is 12 page's long

I have it posted in the bait shop here at My Gander in Syracuse anyone in the area can stop and read it
Remember we are all in this together so let's please all follow the rules

[Ray4852]

I’m sure they can come up with a pill or dump some kind of chemical solution into your bait tanks that will kill the virus in the minnows. Look at all the virus man has every year. We all seem to get by. They don’t seem to care if we get a virus. You can get a flu shot if you want. When a human dies everything he had in his body dies with him. It shouldn’t be any different with a fish or animal.

[youngster]

unfortunately thats 1 of the big problems as isee it. as stated in your last post, we are advised to use them in the waters we caught them in,  and i agree with that. but ,just be advised doesn't cut it. we had a law for many years that said no baitfish in trout waters. they couldn't enforce it so they then advised us. itstill didn't work. plus they can have a 100 page emergency order if its not posted on the front page of the paper , on the news and in every baitshop and sporting good store the guys that use the bait wont know. i know theres alot of members here but i would have to say three quarters of the people i talk to who fish dont know about this and or dont care.  wanna thank you guys for all the updates.  hope this gets ironed out soon. 1 way or another

[Ray4852]

I agree our media newspaper and radio should be educating the public about this virus

[coldbum]

Isn't that the truth Slip.. Too many times the bait bucket biologists have ruined our Adirondack Treasures! We just have to hope that honest fisherman can overcome the issues caused by careless selfish "Un-Sportsmen."

[Bartel Rd. Bait & Tackle]

slip bob you are so right so I'll call on you's guy's to speak up when you see it.
half the problem is when the bait bucket bio's do these thing's no one bother's to speak up
I do it all the time last year I followed a guy off the ice and handed him the grocery bag of trash he left behind
he was stunned and didn't know what to say. we need more of that.

Also believe me I'm already talking to some media people to bring the vhs thing to a more public eye

[Wellsy]

Alright,
I guess I feel worst for the bait shop guys in all this. Because unless you have a degree in law and can decipher all the sub colums and legal jargen like a whiz, the guys selling bait are left to do all the homework on this.
And I'm sure it's a scramble to see if they are going to make a go of it without either making things worse or wind up payin the man for messing up one small detail.
The way I read it briefly, was to most importantly stick to the list of fish, and bodies of water provided by the D.E.C.
There seemed to be a few varieties of bait that we all use avialable for clean harvest.

I know that whatever the bait shop owners can get in I will use as much as possible until this situation gets a little more gravity. And the method of testing and transport gets some backup from the state for ease of operation.


'We all need to support our local bait shops as much as we can through this"


See you on the ice,
Wellsy