Author Topic: Problem with flasher (Read 3335 times)

100% Waterproof · « **on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:02 PM »

Hey all. I got a Shakespeare DF-1 flasher. It's was made in about the 70's, in USA, but I got it brand new so I only used it for the first time this weekend.

Well the first lake that I came to, it determined the depth where I was fishing at to be around 19 feet. I could not however see my jig. I didn't have time to try a heavier jig, but I did turn the gain up all the way and the filter all the way down. I did see schools or maybe just huge fish appear at 10 feet and rise all the way up to about 3 feet under my hole. Couldn't see the jig though, and it's not like one of those ultra tiny ones either.

The next day, I went to another lake, the depth of which I know is about 12 feet. Well the thing didn't even give me a reading for the depth at all, let alone show me my jigs. I tried several different holes, ALL OVER THE LAKE, and still could not get a depth reading.

The batteries I am using are the ones that are prescribed in its original manual; two 6-volt lantern batteries. Everything is brand new. What's going on?

Maybe I should try to get more powerful batteries that will make it read finer stuff? Perhaps batteries that will give it more gain? I would ideally like to be able to recharge them...

Please help, thanks.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:11 PM »

Was the transducer hanging perfectly level?

Try a regular flasher battery. 12v 7-9ah something like this: http://www.cabelas.com/p-0036388018049a.shtml

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:15 PM »

I did play around with the transducer, made sure it was free of ice, lowered it more in the hole, twisted it around, held it higher, pointed it at different directions. I noticed that if you just let it hang from the coil of wires, it doesn't really go down all that perpendicular. This explains the need for a Genz pack that supposedly makes sure the transducer goes down at 90 degrees.

If the manual says the flasher uses 6 volt batteries, you think 12 volts won't kill it?

Drifter_016 · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:23 PM »

Quote from: 100% Waterproof on Dec 21, 2009, 09:15 PM

I did play around with the transducer, made sure it was free of ice, lowered it more in the hole, twisted it around, held it higher, pointed it at different directions. I noticed that if you just let it hang from the coil of wires, it doesn't really go down all that perpendicular. This explains the need for a Genz pack that supposedly makes sure the transducer goes down at 90 degrees.

If the manual says the flasher uses 6 volt batteries, you think 12 volts won't kill it?

The two 6 volt lantern batteries are connected in series to produce 12 volts, so a single 12 volt battery will run it fine.
Post a picture of the battery wiring and the transducer so we can let you know what will work.

Melbs7 · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:24 PM »

OK... so I'm more than a little confused. The Flasher is from the 70's..... you bought it new... but you are just now using it for the 1st time??

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:33 PM »

You got it right. This flasher was made in about 1973 or so. It was held without being opened all this time, and I purchased it recently. I opened it up for the first time and used it for the first time. It is unused, even though very old.

Here are the pics:

http://img37.imageshack.us/i/1002072x.jpg/

So if I use a 12-volt rechargeable battery like the one in the Cabelas link, it might give me more amps to push the flasher to more "gain" so that it could see things better?

Drifter_016 · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:52 PM »

The older ones will sometimes show your jig, but they are nowhere near as good as the new ones. I used an 80's vintage Lowrance unit for 20 years and can't remember if it ever showed me my jig or not.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 09:55 PM »

Quote from: 100% Waterproof on Dec 21, 2009, 09:33 PM

You got it right. This flasher was made in about 1973 or so. It was held without being opened all this time, and I purchased it recently. I opened it up for the first time and used it for the first time. It is unused, even though very old.

Here are the pics:
(Image removed from quote.)
http://img37.imageshack.us/i/1002072x.jpg/
(Image removed from quote.)

So if I use a 12-volt rechargeable battery like the one in the Cabelas link, it might give me more amps to push the flasher to more "gain" so that it could see things better?

Quite possibly. Just unhook the black and red cord and attach some clamps to hook up to the battery. You should get a long battery life and the battery is completely rechargeable and will last for YEARS.

Nor Easter · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:06 PM »

I don't think I would want to waste money on a new battery just to find out if this thing is even worth keeping. If fresh lantern batteries won't work, I don't see any other 12 volt source making it work any better. I had an old Humminbird LCD fish finder that worked fine with lantern batteries.

When you were at the second lake, was the flasher working/spinning? It was a shallower lake but it wasn't showing the bottom? Maybe the flasher or the 'ducer is already malfunctioning.

Good luck trying to have warranty work on that ole Shakespeare!

If you get it performing OK, then buy a better/rechargeable battery for it. Not before. Test the lantern batteries with a tester or check them with a flashlight bulb or one for a car such as a blinker bulb, headlight etc. Or if you can borrow a car, motorcycle, wheeler, trolling, etc,, battery to hook up to it, you would know then if it will work.

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:09 PM »

Thanks for the supportive and constructive comment, Nor Easter. The flasher was still spinning and showing the 0 mark, just not the bottom.

I do believe that two lantern alkaline batteries won't deliver as much current (amps) as a rechargeable battery like on cabelas.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:14 PM »

My bet is with the ducer. Sounds like its acting up.

DEADONDYLAN · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:14 PM »

most new flashers have brushes that can be cleaned or changed ?

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:17 PM »

What brushes?

Nor Easter · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:21 PM »

A set of lantern batteries will not last as long as a lead/acid battery but they will supply ample current for what the flasher needs to draw.

What many people don't understand about electricity is it is the resistance of the unit that determines how many amps will pass through it as long as the current capacity of the electrical source is sufficient.

A huge 12v truck battery would not ruin the flasher. It's not the size. A battery of 24 or more volts could.

You could use a stack of 8 D-cell batteries and it would work for awhile. The bigger batteries just allow longer run times.

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:23 PM »

Do we know the current of two lantern batteries connected in series?

Nor Easter · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:26 PM »

Check the connector of the transducer for continuity. It most likely has issues as mentioned above.

Do I know right offhand what the batteries can supply? No. But I will Google it to try and find out. BRB.

Chart found here. Now we need to know what the flasher needs to draw. Look where the leads go into the unit or maybe in the manual/schematics.

DEADONDYLAN · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:27 PM »

do a search vexilar brushes replacement istructions

ih772 · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:34 PM »

Quote from: 100% Waterproof on Dec 21, 2009, 10:23 PM

Do we know the current of two lantern batteries connected in series?

Yes, its the same as one lantern battery or 15 lantern batteries in series. With batteries in series the voltages add and the current capacity stays the same. Batteries in parallel the voltage stays the same and the amount of current available to be delivered to the load adds. Like someone else said the sonar unit determines the amount of current drawn from the batteries no matter the Amp hour rating of the battery. The unit most likely draws less than 500mA which the two new lantern batteries can easily supply.

The problem with it not showing the bottom at the second lake was most likely having the xducer not pointed directly at the bottom. If it has the old paper type of capacitors in it, they could be dried out and way out of spec making the circuitry not function properly.

The brushes wear out with use so I doubt its the brushes since this was its maiden voyage.

fishville · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:48 PM »

batterys in series create voltage 6+ to 6-=12 batterys wired parrallel create longer run time
6+ to 6+ =6

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 10:57 PM »

So you guy's are saying that the problem can't be with the batteries? I'm sure it's not the positioning of the transducer because I twirled it around and moved it up and down and left and right and all over the place to not get a reading. I should have checked on the first lake just to see if the problem is specific to the second lake, or if it just started to occur.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 11:00 PM »

I'm still saying its a bad ducer and you may be out of luck. It would be next to impossible to find a new transducer for it.

DEADONDYLAN · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 21, 2009, 11:31 PM »

http://vexilar.com/pages/support/instructions/instructions_brush-cleaning.html its free to try before you go searching for a ducer fix

ih772 · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 01:47 AM »

Quote from: 100% Waterproof on Dec 21, 2009, 10:57 PM

So you guy's are saying that the problem can't be with the batteries? I'm sure it's not the positioning of the transducer because I twirled it around and moved it up and down and left and right and all over the place to not get a reading. I should have checked on the first lake just to see if the problem is specific to the second lake, or if it just started to occur.

Hold the transducer close to your ear and see if you can hear a clicking noise coming from it. If you can, its transmitting signals.

Turn it on and hold the transducer about 6" to a foot off a smooth hard surface, turn the sensitivity all the way up and see if you get depth reading. It should show a reading of about 5 or 6 feet deep if its working.

Wiggle around the plug on the front of the unit where transducer cord goes and plug and unplug it a few times too. It will help clean the contacts up a bit if they are a little corroded.

nubote · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 07:26 AM »

The lantern batteries are fine. Humminbird still sells some portables with lantern batteries. I've got a 535 portable that uses them. I bought a couple rechargeable lantern batteries to save money. Normal batteries last about a day. If it worked the first day and not the second, I wonder if the batts are weak?

mud_n_fun · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 07:30 AM »

Your unit is 12v. for your info. I can tell this by the battery compartment picture.

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 08:51 AM »

The noise of it oscillating is quite audible, but when I did the dry test, turning it on and holding the ducer 5 feet from the ceiling, it didn't give me a reading.

Should I really check the brush, or might that be a problem only if it was previously used already?

The ducer doesn't seem to be making any clicking noises.

Nor Easter · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 09:40 AM »

Quote from: 100% Waterproof

The ducer doesn't seem to be making any clicking noises.

If you do not hear anything with the bottom of the transducer placed on your ear. It is DEAD!! End of troubleshooting. We found the problem.

Test the plug for continuity as I said before. If there is none, cut the wire about 4 inches away from the plug and test the wires to the 'ducer for continuity again. If there is a reading, the plug end is bad. If not, look for kinks in the line. If none, the ducer is bad.

You can try another transducer. Used, even one from another finder/flasher. I am using a Lowrance ducer with a Humminbird finder. Works great! If you have to buy a new transducer, I would not bother. Rather, you would be better off with buying a newer, more modern system.

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 09:46 AM »

Test what plug for continuity?

When I put the ducer all the way to my ear and press it against it, I can hear the oscilating frequency in my ear, but I don't know what I should be listening in for.

It does show the zero reading, just not the distance.

Drifter_016 · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 10:00 AM »

You should hear a clicking sound.
Most finders you can hear them from a foot or more away.
Some you can even hear when it's in the water.

100% Waterproof · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 22, 2009, 10:10 AM »

Well I definitely hear an oscillating sound which seems to be coming from the oscillations, not the transducer itself though.

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Author Topic: Problem with flasher (Read 3335 times)