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Vermont => Ice Fishing Vermont => Topic started by: dickbaker on Jan 31, 2017, 03:03 PM
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::) ::) :tipup: I was sad to find out that Vt. biologist didn't want walleye stocked in 12 mile long Moore Reservoir and lower Comerford Reservoir :'( I'm still trying to contact Vt. fishermen who would like to increase the fishery to also include pike and walleye as well as
trout? It can be done and could compete with even Canadian fisheries??
Any body interested?
Dick
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::) ::) :tipup: I was sad to find out that Vt. biologist didn't want walleye stocked in 12 mile long Moore Reservoir and lower Comerford Reservoir :'( I'm still trying to contact Vt. fishermen who would like to increase the fishery to also include pike and walleye as well as
trout? It can be done and could compete with even Canadian fisheries??
Any body interested?
Dick
Aren't there already pike and trout in there?
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Trout... if there is pike I doubt the trout will do well..
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??? Once pike became the big predator it has become a warm water fishery with a few large trout in the deeper channel and upper fast water.
Yellow perch forage seems to be unlimited? Still seems like a potential for a Canadian/like mixed fishery?
Some one has to make this an issue with your Vt. F&W?? You own half of Moore and Comerford Reservoir??
Dick
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Unless he lied about his location, there are pike there.
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Moore dam used to be full of large trout but the pike have decimated the trout fishery. Walleye would be a great addition but trying to get a Vt. biologist to change his/her mind is near imposssible. Look at the temporary rules for Seymour/Little Averill that have been in effect for a dozen + years. Look at the bait rules , the spike horn rules and the CWD rules etc. ::)
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There was a post all about this very topic in relation to Moore on here last year I believe. Personally, I am a proponent of not introducing new fish into waterways where they haven't been historically. Seen too many trout ponds and rivers destroyed by pike and bass.
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There was zero trout caught at this summer's Derby from what I was told.
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There was a post all about this very topic in relation to Moore on here last year I believe. Personally, I am a proponent of not introducing new fish into waterways where they haven't been historically. Seen too many trout ponds and rivers destroyed by pike and bass.
The pike and bass are already in the waters , the trout population has already tanked . This is why walleye would be a nice addition to what is now a warm water fishery.
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The pike and bass are already in the waters , the trout population has already tanked . This is why walleye would be a nice addition to what is now a warm water fishery.
Yeah, I think we oughta just let it be. Shouldn't keep dumping new species into new waters because they can spread. I don't see the fact that the trout population has tanked as being a good rationale here.
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Yeah, I think we oughta just let it be. Shouldn't keep dumping new species into new waters because they can spread. I don't see the fact that the trout population has tanked as being a good rationale here.
I love trout and am a member of TU. But in this case the fishery is already tanked like already stated, so might as well intrudce a well loved fish. Also seeing there is walleye in the lower river I don't think they are gonna spread much....
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I love trout and am a member of TU. But in this case the fishery is already tanked like already stated, so might as well intrudce a well loved fish. Also seeing there is walleye in the lower river I don't think they are gonna spread much....
Well, by "lower river" do you mean below the moore dam? Cause that's obviously impassible to fish moving upstream. If you throw them in Moore, they can get up any tribs below the next dam up, and get into any other lake or pond that may be thus far unspoiled. You're also more apt to get someone without enough sense to not pluck a few from moore and throw them into Maidstone or some of the other trout lakes and pond nearby. Slippery slope. We should stop treating every waterbody as our own personal fish-tank. Every tom dick and harry with a hankering for pike or bass in his local pond is how we got to where we are today. This mentality will eventually bring Asian Carp this way, and that will be a sad day indeed. This is part of the reason why you have to drive to far northern NH or Maine for a crack at a wild brookie over 18" long, without it being some corn-fed brooder with beat up fins and a dull look in its eyes.
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Well, by "lower river" do you mean below the moore dam? Cause that's obviously impassible to fish moving upstream. If you throw them in Moore, they can get up any tribs below the next dam up, and get into any other lake or pond that may be thus far unspoiled. You're also more apt to get someone without enough sense to not pluck a few from moore and throw them into Maidstone or some of the other trout lakes and pond nearby. Slippery slope. We should stop treating every waterbody as our own personal fish-tank. Every tom dick and harry with a hankering for pike or bass in his local pond is how we got to where we are today. This mentality will eventually bring Asian Carp this way, and that will be a sad day indeed. This is part of the reason why you have to drive to far northern NH or Maine for a crack at a wild brookie over 18" long, without it being some corn-fed brooder with beat up fins and a dull look in its eyes.
I agree with you 100%! I am also so discusstided with this state as every pond now has bass, pike, or pickerel in them. I feel the state does nothing to fix, stop, or prevent this. Now, with that said I know for a fact walleye are not like these species in the sence that they can repurduce about anywhere. Stocking walleye is very difficult, therefore I highly highly highly doubt they would spread. Walleye are not like bass or pike where once you stock a few you have thousands.
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;D Madfly? Great to hear from a TU member with commons sense ;D I love to fish for trout but I find walleye my second favorite. Moore Reservoir could have provided a Quebec like warm water fishery. Your Vt. biologist took three years to finally find a few spawning rainbow and brown trout below Comerford Dam. To protect these "natural" trout" (living in an almost inaccessible area) he convinced NH biologists to stop the walleye project :'( Remember that both Moore and Comerford are shared by both Vt. and NH and walleye are the chosen State of Vt warm water fish. Walleye are a NATIVE Vt. fish while brown trout and rainbow trout are introduced>
Being able to share the walleye cost would have been a super investment for both states. Instead, tens of thousands of walleye have been stocked in Island Pond, which will never be a self sustaining population. Walleye in the Conn. River have always been self sustaining!
Dick
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Unless he lied about his location, there are pike there.
??? Moore was fishing Moore Reservoir and even offers guide service for pike.
Dick
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;D Madfly? Great to hear from a TU member with commons sense ;D I love to fish for trout but I find walleye my second favorite. Moore Reservoir could have provided a Quebec like warm water fishery. Your Vt. biologist took three years to finally find a few spawning rainbow and brown trout below Comerford Dam. To protect these "natural" trout" (living in an almost inaccessible area) he convinced NH biologists to stop the walleye project :'( Remember that both Moore and Comerford are shared by both Vt. and NH and walleye are the chosen State of Vt warm water fish. Walleye are a NATIVE Vt. fish while brown trout and rainbow trout are introduced>
Being able to share the walleye cost would have been a super investment for both states. Instead, tens of thousands of walleye have been stocked in Island Pond, which will never be a self sustaining population. Walleye in the Conn. River have always been self sustaining!
Dick
There has already been debate about putting walleye in. Both VT and NH came to the conclusion that introducing walleye into waters that have wild trout was NOT a good idea.
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;D Matt, Seems that you are a serious trout and salmon fisherman? It would seem that you might have some sympathy for fishermen who would also like to catch Vt. native warm water fish rather than introduced rainbow and brown trout? I will always have my doubt about Vt. and NH biologists decision made because a few large brown trout were electrofished 8 miles below Moore Dam. There are small tributaries at the same location that are full of self sustaining brook trout, But they are gobbled up by the Rainbow and Brown trout as they enter the main river?? This is all abutted by land that I managed for 20 years, so I have first hand experience?
Dick
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;D Matt, Seems that you are a serious trout and salmon fisherman? It would seem that you might have some sympathy for fishermen who would also like to catch Vt. native warm water fish rather than introduced rainbow and brown trout? I will always have my doubt about Vt. and NH biologists decision made because a few large brown trout were electrofished 8 miles below Moore Dam. There are small tributaries at the same location that are full of self sustaining brook trout, But they are gobbled up by the Rainbow and Brown trout as they enter the main river?? This is all abutted by land that I managed for 20 years, so I have first hand experience?
Dick
Native or not, they would do more harm than good. Brook trout being eaten by larger trout is nothing new, thats the cycle of life. Walleye are predators just 3 days after hatching, making them difficult to raise. Theyre also slow growers and fight like logs.
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??? Matt? Living in Swanton I would think that you would be a member of the Champlain walleye assoc.?
Dick
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Pike and bass have been the dominant predator fish in Moore for quite some time...! I was very disappointed when the walleye introduction proposal was shot down -- with the Conn River feeding Moore and the type of bottom and structure throughout, I think it would make a great walleye habitat, and they would be much more compatible with the well-established bass and pike populations than the trout would be...!!
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??? Matt? Living in Swanton I would think that you would be a member of the Champlain walleye assoc.?
Dick
I have no reason to join that - I'm not a big walleye fishermen. I sometimes fish them in the Spring and rarely in the Lake, but if I never caught a walleye again, I wouldn't be phased much. Cool fish, but not a better target species than most of the other fish in Champlain IMO.
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??? OK! I see an obvious bias! You live near a super walleye are but don't like them?? But it would seem only fair that you don't argue that other fishermen would love to have them??
Dick
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??? OK! I see an obvious bias! You live near a super walleye are but don't like them?? But it would seem only fair that you don't argue that other fishermen would love to have them??
Dick
I have spent my fair share of time in the Spring on a boat and on shore targeting eyes in the Winooski and Lamoille. Have also fished the Salmon Hole opener at midnight countless times. The only thing I care for is the meat. Im not saying people shouldn't want walleye - but they would clearly do more harm than good in these circumstances.
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??? Matt ? you get to choose trout or walleye at your door. But understand how others want more walleye fisheries. I'm also biased with a hope that the Conn. River reservoirs might produce a walleye fishery as good as your Champlain Valley river have in the past?
Dick
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Obviously there are several posters here that have NEVER fished Moore dam area and maybe don't know where it is . ::) Talks about tribs and walleye escaping up those tribs is total nonsense. Walleyes exist in the Conn river down stream about ten miles(in the same area as your wild trout) ,they just need a helping hand over a few dams and they will be in the reservoir . I'm not advocating illegal bucket stocking but state sponsored stocking.
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Obviously there are several posters here that have NEVER fished Moore dam area and maybe don't know where it is . ::) Talks about tribs and walleye escaping up those tribs is total nonsense. Walleyes exist in the Conn river down stream about ten miles(in the same area as your wild trout) ,they just need a helping hand over a few dams and they will be in the reservoir . I'm not advocating illegal bucket stocking but state sponsored stocking.
Thanks Again ;D Maybe progress in the future management?
Dick
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Obviously there are several posters here that have NEVER fished Moore dam area and maybe don't know where it is . ::) Talks about tribs and walleye escaping up those tribs is total nonsense. Walleyes exist in the Conn river down stream about ten miles(in the same area as your wild trout) ,they just need a helping hand over a few dams and they will be in the reservoir . I'm not advocating illegal bucket stocking but state sponsored stocking.
Eyes are not native to that part of CT. And yes I have fished in the area of Moore and have heard of plenty of huge trout coming out of there. The last thing that place needs are walleye eating wild trout (which I have also caught in that area) especially below Moore. I dont know specifics but I do know eyes are much harder to raise than trout or salmon. As someone previously said, after just a few days of hatching theyll actually start eating eachother.
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Walleye might be native to VERMONT but they are not native to the upper CT River watershed, as far as I know. So let's not not use political lines to decide where to stock fish... In the past, when we put up dams all over the CT, and sea run Atlantic Salmon stopped showing up, people said, "'tis a shame, but we like to catch fish, so let's put rainbows and browns in there!". Then the trout fishing was good, right? Fast forward to today, when ostensibly later introduced bass and pike have "destroyed" the trout population (which, I don't buy - plenty of huge trout getting caught there, by these hands even), the argument here is, well, it's too hard to catch these big trout, so let's put in walleye? Is it just me, or are we just trying to solve one problem by potentially introducing another with this approach? You want Walleye? More power to you! But go to where they are native, like Champlain, or somewhere in the Midwest. They don't belong in the upper CT River watershed. To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail... To a walleye fisherman, every puddle seems to need some walleye.
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Browns and Rainbows are not native to the Ct watershed either so how is it OK to continue stocking those fish but not walleye? I believe that trout and walleye can and have coexisted. The Waterbury Rez had both big Browns, Brookies and Rainbows as well as a healthy walleye population prior to the 1986 drain down for dam repairs. Just saying.
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Browns and Rainbows are not native to the Ct watershed either so how is it OK to continue stocking those fish but not walleye? I believe that trout and walleye can and have coexisted. The Waterbury Rez had both big Browns, Brookies and Rainbows as well as a healthy walleye population prior to the 1986 drain down for dam repairs. Just saying.
I am not advocating stocking browns and rainbows there. I like to catch them, but would prefer native species wherever I fish. You can of course argue you'll never get rid of pike, bass, and in some case, rainbows and browns, but my point was more about not stocking any additional species that don't belong there.
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Please post pics of the "plenty of huge trout " being caught above Moore dam, I love seeing trout pics ! :)
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Browns and Rainbows are not native to the Ct watershed either so how is it OK to continue stocking those fish but not walleye? I believe that trout and walleye can and have coexisted. The Waterbury Rez had both big Browns, Brookies and Rainbows as well as a healthy walleye population prior to the 1986 drain down for dam repairs. Just saying.
30 years ago our fisheries were much different. There used to be a healthy population of eyes in Shelburne until the die off, and ever since then they have never been able to re-establish the population. I don't care at all about stocked fish, I am making a point that there are already well-established populations of WILD, naturally reproducing trout. Why spend all of that time and money to stock eyes when they arent certain they will even reproduce and not impact the wild population of fish? This is a classic case of "us anglers know better than biologists that do this fer' a livin'" The safest thing they can do for the trout population in that area is to not stock walleye, nuff' said.
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30 years ago our fisheries were much different. There used to be a healthy population of eyes in Shelburne until the die off, and ever since then they have never been able to re-establish the population. I don't care at all about stocked fish, I am making a point that there are already well-established populations of WILD, naturally reproducing trout. Why spend all of that time and money to stock eyes when they arent certain they will even reproduce and not impact the wild population of fish? This is a classic case of "us anglers know better than biologists that do this fer' a livin'" The safest thing they can do for the trout population in that area is to not stock walleye, nuff' said.
Best thing to do it get rid of the pike and bass!!
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Best thing to do it get rid of the pike and bass!!
Good luck with that! They are more tenacious than a pack rabid of Honey Badgers! Maybe there's an opportunity here for a start-up that genetically engineers viruses that only work on certain species of fish... Let's start with the Asian Carp before it gets here...
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Good luck with that! They are more tenacious than a pack rabid of Honey Badgers! Maybe there's an opportunity here for a start-up that genetically engineers viruses that only work on certain species of fish... Let's start with the Asian Carp before it gets here...
Convince the hipsters to want Asian carp and they'll fork out big bucks for them.
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Matt and weatherman ??? ::) After three year study both Vt. and NH biologist determined that Moore Reservoir had ideal habitat and forage for walleye. The didn't feel that migrating walleye would adversely effect the tail race fishery. They had to go all the way to upper Macindoes reservoir to find some brown trout that they felt might be naturally spawning? Moore and Comerford have been stocked with trout for many decades. Those trout often pass through turbines to downriver waters. When I sponsored the tail race trout regulation I was told by the head biologist that it might be a bad move that would attract many more fishermen and reduce the average size of trout and require regular stocking to retaining fishable numbers. I had thought about the same regulation for the Comerford tail race but he convinced me not to do it? Now! Because of TU concerns for possible naturally spawning trout, Both states are thinking about discontinuing and stocking.
I do find it interesting that you find it so easy to determine that your Moore trout were "wild fish"?
I'm angry with those who brought Champlain pike to Moore but I feel that we are now dealing with an entirely different fishery that might require different management?
Sorry we disagree on this issue.
Dick
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Obviously there are several posters here that have NEVER fished Moore dam area and maybe don't know where it is . ::) Talks about tribs and walleye escaping up those tribs is total nonsense. Walleyes exist in the Conn river down stream about ten miles(in the same area as your wild trout) ,they just need a helping hand over a few dams and they will be in the reservoir . I'm not advocating illegal bucket stocking but state sponsored stocking.
I've been mostly quiet in this thread since while I know where the place is, I have never fished it, or even dipped a toe in the water there, so I have no idea whether walleye would be a good idea there or not.
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Matt and weatherman ??? ::) After three year study both Vt. and NH biologist determined that Moore Reservoir had ideal habitat and forage for walleye. The didn't feel that migrating walleye would adversely effect the tail race fishery. They had to go all the way to upper Macindoes reservoir to find some brown trout that they felt might be naturally spawning? Moore and Comerford have been stocked with trout for many decades. Those trout often pass through turbines to downriver waters. When I sponsored the tail race trout regulation I was told by the head biologist that it might be a bad move that would attract many more fishermen and reduce the average size of trout and require regular stocking to retaining fishable numbers. I had thought about the same regulation for the Comerford tail race but he convinced me not to do it? Now! Because of TU concerns for possible naturally spawning trout, Both states are thinking about discontinuing and stocking.
I do find it interesting that you find it so easy to determine that your Moore trout were "wild fish"?
I'm angry with those who brought Champlain pike to Moore but I feel that we are now dealing with an entirely different fishery that might require different management?
Sorry we disagree on this issue.
Dick
I have personally witnessed WILD rainbow trout spawning in that area. I have spoken with a NH bio about the same water and location, and they have confirmed there is natural reproduction of both browns and rainbows. So, you want the states to spend an abundant amount of money to stock a fish that not only grows extremely slow, fights like a log, and is hard to hatch and raise for what exactly?? A meat fishery at the possible expense of an established population of wild trout? You do realize that you wont even see walleye over 20" for...8-10 years if I remember correctly? All because people don't want to drive an extra diatance and put in the effort to catch walleye. Well, I've done my fair share of traveling for many species around VT and im not complaining. What's next? A thread about stocking chinook in Champlain?
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I'm with you, Dick. I've fished for, and caught, both walleye and naturally reproducing trout in the Connecticut River. I think Moore Reservoir would be a fantastic place to establish a walleye fishery.
Frankly, I think that the anti-walleye sentiment is the expression of a pervasive pro-trout snobbery. I am sure that if fly fishing for walleye was to become a "thing", the perspective would change. Just look at what has happened with the status of carp and pike in the fly fishing world.
We all know that naturally reproducing trout in Moore Reservoir are the progeny of stocked fish. The same for the salmonids in Champlain. Are these fish entitled to more status as "wild" fish if they naturally reproduce? No one reveres bass or perch (white or yellow) for their natural reproduction or elevates them on the fish hierarchy for being wild.
For some reason, trout are different. They're considered special and more worthy of attention and admiration. Perhaps if A River Runs Through It had been filmed on Mille Lacs in Minnesota, things would be different.
In any case, I personally think walleye are an interesting fish. They can be caught with a variety of techniques but are never (for me anyway) easy to catch. I've enjoyed trying some of the midwest techniques to catch walleye in the Connecticut River. I also enjoy fishing for trout and salmon with a variety of techniques. And my fly tying vise is right here at my computer desk.
I think that Vermont has some very good trout fisheries and does an admirable job managing them, but I'd like to have more opportunity to catch some walleye. From what I understand, Moore Reservoir could sustain a good population of them. I say go for it.
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I'm with you, Dick. I've fished for, and caught, both walleye and naturally reproducing trout in the Connecticut River. I think Moore Reservoir would be a fantastic place to establish a walleye fishery.
Frankly, I think that the anti-walleye sentiment is the expression of a pervasive pro-trout snobbery. I am sure that if fly fishing for walleye was to become a "thing", the perspective would change. Just look at what has happened with the status of carp and pike in the fly fishing world.
We all know that naturally reproducing trout in Moore Reservoir are the progeny of stocked fish. The same for the salmonids in Champlain. Are these fish entitled to more status as "wild" fish if they naturally reproduce? No one reveres bass or perch (white or yellow) for their natural reproduction or elevates them on the fish hierarchy for being wild.
For some reason, trout are different. They're considered special and more worthy of attention and admiration. Perhaps if A River Runs Through It had been filmed on Mille Lacs in Minnesota, things would be different.
In any case, I personally think walleye are an interesting fish. They can be caught with a variety of techniques but are never (for me anyway) easy to catch. I've enjoyed trying some of the midwest techniques to catch walleye in the Connecticut River. I also enjoy fishing for trout and salmon with a variety of techniques. And my fly tying vise is right here at my computer desk.
I think that Vermont has some very good trout fisheries and does an admirable job managing them, but I'd like to have more opportunity to catch some walleye. From what I understand, Moore Reservoir could sustain a good population of them. I say go for it.
Still boils down to, "I don't want to drive that far to catch walleye, so the state needs to start stocking them in more places" Walleye on flies? I fly fish for the thrill. Nothing says thrill like fishing for something that fights like a wet rag, right? Why dont we just cut to the chase and have the state fund a walleye farm that will hatch, raise and then fillet them on site (after they reach 20" which takes 8~ years) and sell the fillets to anglers? Because let's be honest, they're only good for the meat. I say add a walleye tax to our license fees and get the ball rolling! Get me some walleye meat by 2030!!!
I've said all I need to say in this thread. The decision to not stock walleye speaks for itself.
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??? ::) OK! Matt. Can we leave at that ? You love trout, hate walleye? Moore Reservoir is in my back yard and not yours. I'll be dead before any different fish populate the Conn. river reservoirs. But I would hope for some positive input NOT Love/Hate disputes?
Dick
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Still boils down to, "I don't want to drive that far to catch walleye, so the state needs to start stocking them in more places" Walleye on flies? I fly fish for the thrill. Nothing says thrill like fishing for something that fights like a wet rag, right? Why dont we just cut to the chase and have the state fund a walleye farm that will hatch, raise and then fillet them on site (after they reach 20" which takes 8~ years) and sell the fillets to anglers? Because let's be honest, they're only good for the meat. I say add a walleye tax to our license fees and get the ball rolling! Get me some walleye meat by 2030!!!
I've said all I need to say in this thread. The decision to not stock walleye speaks for itself.
Matt,
Everyone has their own reasons for why they fish and what they fish for. Discounting someone's opinions because they are just 'lowly meat fisherman' (as I often am myself, love those walleye fillets) only reinforces the snobbish and arrogant attitude that is a common stereotype often associated with the hardcore fly fishermen. (I know many fly fisherman that absolutely don't fit that common stereotype) It is doubly reinforced when some of the other reasons for the opposition could equally be applied to some of the species and locations that you do find acceptable.
I don't have enough knowledge or experience with this area to really have a relevant opinion. Just based on this thread I think the pro walleye contributions are making a better case than the anti walleye. for what that is worth.
I do feel comfortable taking an opinion that: 'they grow to slowly', 'they don't fight hard enough' or how far one has to or doesn't have to drive are not valid points in this debate. That does seem to be what it boils down to for you.
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I'm with you, Dick. I've fished for, and caught, both walleye and naturally reproducing trout in the Connecticut River. I think Moore Reservoir would be a fantastic place to establish a walleye fishery.
Frankly, I think that the anti-walleye sentiment is the expression of a pervasive pro-trout snobbery. I am sure that if fly fishing for walleye was to become a "thing", the perspective would change. Just look at what has happened with the status of carp and pike in the fly fishing world.
We all know that naturally reproducing trout in Moore Reservoir are the progeny of stocked fish. The same for the salmonids in Champlain. Are these fish entitled to more status as "wild" fish if they naturally reproduce? No one reveres bass or perch (white or yellow) for their natural reproduction or elevates them on the fish hierarchy for being wild.
For some reason, trout are different. They're considered special and more worthy of attention and admiration. Perhaps if A River Runs Through It had been filmed on Mille Lacs in Minnesota, things would be different.
In any case, I personally think walleye are an interesting fish. They can be caught with a variety of techniques but are never (for me anyway) easy to catch. I've enjoyed trying some of the midwest techniques to catch walleye in the Connecticut River. I also enjoy fishing for trout and salmon with a variety of techniques. And my fly tying vise is right here at my computer desk.
I think that Vermont has some very good trout fisheries and does an admirable job managing them, but I'd like to have more opportunity to catch some walleye. From what I understand, Moore Reservoir could sustain a good population of them. I say go for it.
Thanks ;D We need more new , open minded fishermen , like you.
Dick
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I'm with you, Dick. I've fished for, and caught, both walleye and naturally reproducing trout in the Connecticut River. I think Moore Reservoir would be a fantastic place to establish a walleye fishery.
Frankly, I think that the anti-walleye sentiment is the expression of a pervasive pro-trout snobbery. I am sure that if fly fishing for walleye was to become a "thing", the perspective would change. Just look at what has happened with the status of carp and pike in the fly fishing world.
We all know that naturally reproducing trout in Moore Reservoir are the progeny of stocked fish. The same for the salmonids in Champlain. Are these fish entitled to more status as "wild" fish if they naturally reproduce? No one reveres bass or perch (white or yellow) for their natural reproduction or elevates them on the fish hierarchy for being wild.
For some reason, trout are different. They're considered special and more worthy of attention and admiration. Perhaps if A River Runs Through It had been filmed on Mille Lacs in Minnesota, things would be different.
In any case, I personally think walleye are an interesting fish. They can be caught with a variety of techniques but are never (for me anyway) easy to catch. I've enjoyed trying some of the midwest techniques to catch walleye in the Connecticut River. I also enjoy fishing for trout and salmon with a variety of techniques. And my fly tying vise is right here at my computer desk.
I think that Vermont has some very good trout fisheries and does an admirable job managing them, but I'd like to have more opportunity to catch some walleye. From what I understand, Moore Reservoir could sustain a good population of them. I say go for it.
what a well written, sound, level-headed post.
For the life of me, I can't think of one fishery that I have personally seen effected by the introduction of walleye.
I'm not really sure how this would effect Johnny Orvis Purist at all.
Love the wet rag comment though, kind of a funny thing to say while advocating dumb stocked trout.
I will always be for anything that increases angling opportunities, this would certainly be one of them.
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Matt,
Everyone has their own reasons for why they fish and what they fish for. Discounting someone's opinions because they are just 'lowly meat fisherman' (as I often am myself, love those walleye fillets) only reinforces the snobbish and arrogant attitude that is a common stereotype often associated with the hardcore fly fishermen. (I know many fly fisherman that absolutely don't fit that common stereotype) It is doubly reinforced when some of the other reasons for the opposition could equally be applied to some of the species and locations that you do find acceptable.
I don't have enough knowledge or experience with this area to really have a relevant opinion. Just based on this thread I think the pro walleye contributions are making a better case than the anti walleye. for what that is worth.
I do feel comfortable taking an opinion that 'they grow to slowly', 'they don't fight hard enough' or how far one has to or doesn't have to drive as being valid points in this debate. That does seem to be what it boils down to for you.
Its not an opinion that walleye fight like wet rags, its a statement. I have never hooked into a walleye that had much fight, and I would like to think I have caught many of the larger fish VT has to offer. Comparitively, they are lazy fish. I cant think of any fish in Champlain that, at 28-30" offers less of a fight than a walleye.
As for the progeny of stocked fish, that can be said about pretty much every single wild trout fishery in the Northeast - besides an actual native brook trout. The populations that are naturally reproducing successfully are the ones that are more rare. I dont know the numbers of fish stocked in that specific area, but I have been told supplemental stocking of trout do little to the wild trout populations. Dog River for example. Browns are stocked in the Winooski but have access to the lower part of the Dog river, but the biomass in the Dog during electro surveys showed all wild fish.
As for the dumb stocked trout comment, I have caught 15" pellet head rainbows that fought harder than 24" eyes. Plus, never once have I advocated trout stocking.
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??? Matt? I thought you posted that you had stated your case?? I will try not to tell you what is best for your Champlain Valley fishery and I hope you will not try to tell me what I think is best for my Conn. River management. I have 40 years of fishing experience here. I love trout and I love walleye but I'm afraid I have little tolerance for people who who want to mandate my fish wishes, from 2 hours away??
Dick
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Matt -- although the walleye may not be considered the number one best fighting game fish, it is considered one of the best eating freshwater game fish in North America and an extremely important game fish economically for many regions of the country -- it is actually on the menu in some of most well respected restaurants in the Midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc...)!! Walleye is the official state fish for Minnesota (South Dakota also) and is the most sought after fish in the state (twice as much as an other species...) -- by the way, Minnesota's DNR stocks over a 1,000 of its lakes annually with walleye and has a very successful walleye stocking program (over 3.0mm fish are harvested by fisherman annually)...!! Some schools actually close for the day, for the walleye opener in Minnesota ('Land of 10,000 Lakes')...! So, anyway, I'd go easy on berating the walleye as some lowly game fish...!!
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;D Thanks Hess! But you are teaching to a class of two who have already set minds.!! I just got an Email from biologist that confirmed that Matt is correct in saying that walleye are slower growing than trout. Rainbow trout grow at a rate of .34 inches per month. Brown trout grow at a rate of .24 inches per month. Walleye grow at a rate of .22 inches per month. The Conn. River has a slot limit that would pretty much put all of them at a similar size before they could be eaten? I do enjoy a good meal of walleye?
Dick
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I'll agree that walleyes often don't fight very hard, but in fairness I've at times had them fight as hard as any laker or pike around and even had them break 12 Lb line. On the other hand, I've never seen a recently stocked trout do more than wiggle on the hook- sure, once they've been out in the world and eating real food and working for a living, but the put and take ones are only slightly more interesting than buying them at the seafood counter at the store.
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Matt -- although the walleye may not be considered the number one best fighting game fish, it is considered one of the best eating freshwater game fish in North America and an extremely important game fish economically for many regions of the country -- it is actually on the menu in some of most well respected restaurants in the Midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc...)!! Walleye is the official state fish for Minnesota (South Dakota also) and is the most sought after fish in the state (twice as much as an other species...) -- by the way, Minnesota's DNR stocks over a 1,000 of its lakes annually with walleye and has a very successful walleye stocking program (over 3.0mm fish are harvested by fisherman annually)...!! Some schools actually close for the day, for the walleye opener in Minnesota ('Land of 10,000 Lakes')...! So, anyway, I'd go easy on berating the walleye as some lowly game fish...!!
Pretty sure you missed Matt's point about people mostly wanting them there to eat? That they are a good eating fish was never in question, and not central to his argument.
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What's next? A thread about stocking chinook in Champlain?
We stocked those all around Vermont in the '30's....didn't take....neither did the swordfish.
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So I guess the discussion was 100% in favor of stocking walleyes in Moore! ;D
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We stocked those all around Vermont in the '30's....didn't take....neither did the swordfish.
Wish the sawfish had caught on, personally- I always thought they were cool. They should try them in more ponds.
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So I guess the discussion was 100% in favor of stocking walleyes in Moore! ;D
;D Well you and I are 100% in favor.
Dick
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I don't really eat fish, and I fish constantly and I love walleye fishing for the challenge, as well as most other fish. Last year I got a 8.5lb walleye and was very happy :-). Some do swim right in, others fight like crazy. Don't base an argument on they are only interest to people who are eating them. This lake had walleye before. and still makes me laugh that you think browns and rainbows aren't competing with your native brookies. You'd have less competition if you stopped stocking browns and rainbows and stocked walleye in stead.......if your really concerned about the native populations.....Since the walleye did well before why not allow them back in. To be honest having walleye extends hours I can fish as I can day and night fish, which to me is a great way of extending my time it took to put all those holes in the lake in the first place..........;-)
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Count me in as well...!!
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Its not an opinion that walleye fight like wet rags, its a statement. I have never hooked into a walleye that had much fight, and I would like to think I have caught many of the larger fish VT has to offer. Comparitively, they are lazy fish. I cant think of any fish in Champlain that, at 28-30" offers less of a fight than a walleye.
As for the progeny of stocked fish, that can be said about pretty much every single wild trout fishery in the Northeast - besides an actual native brook trout. The populations that are naturally reproducing successfully are the ones that are more rare. I dont know the numbers of fish stocked in that specific area, but I have been told supplemental stocking of trout do little to the wild trout populations. Dog River for example. Browns are stocked in the Winooski but have access to the lower part of the Dog river, but the biomass in the Dog during electro surveys showed all wild fish.
As for the dumb stocked trout comment, I have caught 15" pellet head rainbows that fought harder than 24" eyes. Plus, never once have I advocated trout stocking.
I think you missed the point. I agree that walleyes are not a hard fighting fish compared to some. The point is, that is a completely irrelevant factor in determining whether to introduce them or not. It comes across as arrogant and selfish to suggest they shouldn't be stocked just because they don't fight hard enough for you. Or grow to slowly for you. Or because people target them to eat.
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I'm there with you guys too! Never been much of a trout guy, I do enjoy fishing for lakers ( and avoid anyplace that is put and take unless I have my 2 year old) but generally spend my winters chasing toothy critters and summers on the salt when I can. I think walleye would be a great addition to moore, there are TONS of places to fish for trout. I've always thought (most of the reason I fish warm water and some lake trout) it's much more fun to chase something that isn't put in 2-3 times a year for catching. Walleye yes would obviously have to be stocked but would be prolific once established.
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Matt,
Everyone has their own reasons for why they fish and what they fish for. Discounting someone's opinions because they are just 'lowly meat fisherman' (as I often am myself, love those walleye fillets) only reinforces the snobbish and arrogant attitude that is a common stereotype often associated with the hardcore fly fishermen. (I know many fly fisherman that absolutely don't fit that common stereotype) It is doubly reinforced when some of the other reasons for the opposition could equally be applied to some of the species and locations that you do find acceptable.
I don't have enough knowledge or experience with this area to really have a relevant opinion. Just based on this thread I think the pro walleye contributions are making a better case than the anti walleye. for what that is worth.
I do feel comfortable taking an opinion that: 'they grow to slowly', 'they don't fight hard enough' or how far one has to or doesn't have to drive are not valid points in this debate. That does seem to be what it boils down to for you.
Incredibly well written and impossible to argue any points otherwise. Someone's rhetoric needs some rethinking after getting leveled by one of the clearest posts I think I've read here.
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Lol. When is this thread going to the Grumpy Old Men Shanty page??
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Yeah, I think we oughta just let it be. Shouldn't keep dumping new species into new waters because they can spread. I don't see the fact that the trout population has tanked as being a good rationale here.
look at Fairfield pond all the walleye there came from carmi and I doubt the gills were originally there also
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So I guess the discussion was 100% in favor of stocking walleyes in Moore! ;D
Ok! want you to go back over all the posts and count the 2 or 3 anti walleye members and the many pro walleye members ;D
Then we should end and let the rookie take come up with a better post? ::)
Dick
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DB, 97% in favor ! ;D
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look at Fairfield pond all the walleye there came from carmi and I doubt the gills were originally there also
False. Champlain walleye. But that's irrelevant, those walleye don't have much fight in them. ::)
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;D Well you and I are 100% in favor.
Dick
Agree X 2!!
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DB, 97% in favor ! ;D
Wow! 97% plus pokholes ;D Wish we had all pressured our biologists last year ::)
Dick
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I live in central Vermont and I have little faith in the hunting and fisheries biologists in this State. I think they are afraid to make any decisions that might piss off the Bernie lovers so they do as little as possible to " keep the peace" I used to be a amateur bass tournament angler and I have spent many hours on Moore practicing and fishing bass tournaments. I can tell you from experience that there's a lot of pike in there and they are huge. Some of the biggest I've seen. It's my opinion that if it has become that type of fishery the remaining trout are doomed. The really big ones may survive but instead of a poor trout fishery why not develop a GREAT walleye fishery? Both Vermont and New Hampshire have some great trout fisheries. Champlain and Winnie are examples of that and there are many more. Why not create some more Walkeye fisheries in both states? I can think of a dozen lakes/ ponds in central Vermont that has a over population of stunted perch that would make great fisheries for walleye. Now, some of you guys might be thinking that since I used to bass fish I'm a warm water guy. My last boat was fully rigged with down riggers and it was built specifically for trout and salmon so I promise you I'm not bias, I'm just a realist. Let's keep the great trout waters for the trout and let's make some of the poor cool waters great walleye waters. I bought my deer hunting camp in NH because of my lack of confidence in Vermonts wildlife management. Let's not let NH's good wildlife management personnel be tainted by the Bernie lovers over here.
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??? ::) Sometimes I have my doubts about NHF&G too. They stocked trout in Moore twice last spring??
Possibly to satisfy Trout Unlimited?
Dick
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Can we leave the political ideology out of it? Facebook is full of that garbage. Let's talk fish here.
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You guys see the news article with that giant pike from Moore? Big ole pike. 20lbs.
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You guys see the news article with that giant pike from Moore? Big ole pike. 20lbs.
Where was that article published?
Dick
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Can we leave the political ideology out of it? Facebook is full of that garbage. Let's talk fish here.
What politics are you talking ab out??
Dick
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You guys see the news article with that giant pike from Moore? Big ole pike. 20lbs.
I know one Littleton resident who fishes frequently on Moore . This winter he has caught and released 6 pike over 40 inches, pike this size love trout for a snack ! :)
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I know one Littleton resident who fishes frequently on Moore . This winter he has caught and released 6 pike over 40 inches, pike this size love trout for a snack ! :)
and tax payer funded stocked walleye ;)
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::) Tax payers fund trout stocking too. The big hope for walleye was that might be self sustaining as are the now dominant pike?
Dick
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Was watching the news last night and showed this guy and child with a 40 inch pike that weighted 20 pounds.
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??? ::) Seems that 20 lb pike are pretty common at Moore. Luckily there are more caught through ice. The mature pike tend to disappear into Moore's deep water once the open water warms? I kind of wish they had never been put there but it sure will make a super fishery if walleye would be added?
Dick
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There are many, many lakes in both in the Northern US and Canada where Northern Pike and Walleye successfully co-exist -- given the proper stocking strategies and time to develop, Moore Dam Reservoir could certainly be added to that list of fisheries...!!
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There are many, many lakes in both in the Northern US and Canada where Northern Pike and Walleye successfully co-exist -- given the proper stocking strategies and time to develop, Moore Dam Reservoir could certainly be added to that list of fisheries...!!
Hess, I wish I new you were nearby last year? I wish we could get Vt. and NH to reconsider what I thought of as a terrible decision?
Dick
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Dick, I am a busy guy with my business, but if there are future meetings organized to reconsider this decision, I would be happy to participate -- just let me know...! As I have said before, with the Conn. River feeding Moore, the larger size of it and the type of habitat that the reservoir offers, I think it would be a 'natural site' for walleyes with good reproduction prospects...! As this Ice Shanty posting has indicated, based on the VT/NH ice fishing community's response, there would appear to be overwhelming support for walleye in Moore...! At the end of the day, regardless of whether the biologists like it or not, the Moore Reservoir itself, is and has been primarily a bass/pike fishery for quite a few years now (not any type of primary trout fishery)...!!
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There are many, many lakes in both in the Northern US and Canada where Northern Pike and Walleye successfully co-exist -- given the proper stocking strategies and time to develop, Moore Dam Reservoir could certainly be added to that list of fisheries...!!
In the fall I catch walleyes, pike and pickerel on alternate casts in the same locations on Champlain, you can add in the occasional lake trout and salmon. In the spring, trolling and casting along the rocks the same thing happens.
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and tax payer funded stocked walleye ;)
The stocking of fish is done from NH Fish and Game money generated mostly from license fees . The state of NH gives NO money to fund our stocking program. Vt. is probably different so it will be your tax money well spent ! ;D
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Dick, I am a busy guy with my business, but if there are future meetings organized to reconsider this decision, I would be happy to participate -- just let me know...! As I have said before, with the Conn. River feeding Moore, the larger size of it and the type of habitat that the reservoir offers, I think it would be a 'natural site' for walleyes with good reproduction prospects...! As this Ice Shanty posting has indicated, based on the VT/NH ice fishing community's response, there would appear to be overwhelming support for walleye in Moore...! At the end of the day, regardless of whether the biologists like it or not, the Moore Reservoir itself, is and has been primarily a bass/pike fishery for quite a few years now (not any type of primary trout fishery)...!!
Hess, Keep me up to date and I will be happy cooperate!
Dick
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The stocking of fish is done from NH Fish and Game money generated mostly from license fees . The state of NH gives NO money to fund our stocking program. Vt. is probably different so it will be your tax money well spent ! ;D
Your probably right. Probably the majority of the funding is through license sales. So might as well just raise license fees more so then they already have recently! Combination license has gone up $10+ in the last few years. Seems like a lot for an average fishery, and below average hunting.
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Your probably right. Probably the majority of the funding is through license sales. So might as well just raise license fees more so then they already have recently! Combination license has gone up $10+ in the last few years. Seems like a lot for an average fishery, and below average hunting.
It would be a better fishery with more walleyes ! ;D
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??? ::) Cost wise Moore Reservoir walleye would have been a super deal! Both states would share the cost and both NH and Vt. fishermen would share fish ;D
But discussing it is a hot potato with both Vt. and NH biologists. I won't live long enough to see it BUT maybe with some continued pressure both state's biologist might reconsider. Maybe a web site like the lamprey eels petitions?
Dick
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My question for the state would be: do walleye directly compete with pike? If they do, my next question would be: would adding walleye cause a jump in total population of walleye and pike together? I would think not, or at least not by much. There would have to be some equilibrium as they prey on similar fish, and there is only so much fish available to prey on. With no walleye added, the population of pike will increase until it hits a ceiling where there is too much competition for food to increase in population. If walleye are added, the population of pike may never be able to hit that ceiling, and the pike population could likely decrease until some sort of equilibrium is reached with the populations of the two species. That being said, which species is likely to prey on trout more: walleye or pike? If pike prey on trout more than walleye do, then I would think trout fisherman would want walleye introduced to keep the pike population down and therefore increase the population of trout. I understand that there is a very dynamic relationship between all species in a body of water, but maybe these questions and more should be asked. I am not claiming to be and expert on fish, I'm just curious.
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My question for the state would be: do walleye directly compete with pike? If they do, my next question would be: would adding walleye cause a jump in total population of walleye and pike together? I would think not, or at least not by much. There would have to be some equilibrium as they prey on similar fish, and there is only so much fish available to prey on. With no walleye added, the population of pike will increase until it hits a ceiling where there is too much competition for food to increase in population. If walleye are added, the population of pike may never be able to hit that ceiling, and the pike population could likely decrease until some sort of equilibrium is reached with the populations of the two species. That being said, which species is likely to prey on trout more: walleye or pike? If pike prey on trout more than walleye do, then I would think trout fisherman would want walleye introduced to keep the pike population down and therefore increase the population of trout. I understand that there is a very dynamic relationship between all species in a body of water, but maybe these questions and more should be asked. I am not claiming to be and expert on fish, I'm just curious.
It has always been my suspicion that pike prey more on trout than walleye do, simply due to the habits of the two. Pike feed throughout the depth spectrum on pretty much anything that moves their way while walleye are more lazy, lying on the bottom much of the time and then suspending among schooled forage-fish at night.
Fishing for them most of my life, it's always seemed like pike would interact with trout more than walleye do. In the fall, however, we catch both walleye and the occasional trout while casting for pike in the shallows of Champlain, so they all do cross paths at certain times of year.
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??? My experience in Canada indicates that pike love to eat walleye? Moore reservoir pike eat primarily yellow perch and there are a kazillion of them?
Dick
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??? My experience in Canada indicates that pike love to eat walleye? Moore reservoir pike eat primarily yellow perch and there are a kazillion of them?
Dick
I've found bullheads stuck by the spines in pike bellies before, so I think pike will eat pretty much anything that moves past them when they're in the mood. They definitely do eat a lot of perch.
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So, I got no dog in this fight. But I did spit my coffee on the computer screen when I read there will be no stocking of walleye in the Moore reservoir cuz... Bernie Sanders. That was pretty funny. It sounds like this area is a great fishery though- so kudos to y'all. I have never fished that body of water... I've caught a number of walleye in my time in Carmi and Champlain (they are 8 miles and 22 miles away). They are fun, taste great and a challenge. But catching pike, trout, bass, and many other fish on my fly gear and spinning gear are much more exciting... But I can't really blame your all's very passionate interest in increasing fishing opportunities for any species although I have very good faith in our biologists and their amazing work they have done to attempt to increase fishing opportunities of all type...
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ok im sick of trout unlimited and nhs anti walleye ways I'm trying to make change and I can see alota like minded individuals here so if you look up nh panfishing on fb I have a petition to start walleye stockings and every signature helps once I get enough I'm gonna go out start testing ph and everything compile alots data and with the signatures go to the state biologists and fight for walleye stockings
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;D. I'm so proud of you. Keep it up!!
Dick