Ethical Limits?

[Smelty88]

As i look around the forums i see the topic of why there are no fish and lots of people say look at how much people catch and take. so with that said i ask the question what is an ethical limit, not a legal limit but an ethical limit? I look at it like this if i clean a perch it will likely yield about 25% of its body weight in cookable  meet. so 20 8 inch perch will clean down to about 1 pound of cookable meet. Say i eat fish once a week not unreasonable, and i eat a half pound on my own fish and chip style that would come out to 26 pounds of perch for the year for just me pounds that would work out to me needing to catch 520 8 inch perch to feed just myself for a year. now add two kids and a wife into that equation say a quarter for the wife and a quarter between the kids granted they are young, thats another 520 perch.  For a total of 1040 perch i can feed the family with fish once a week for a year. So when you see guys walk of the ice with 5 gallon buckets full of perch is it ok or is it not, whats to much and whats not enough?

[buck 1]

we dont keep 8 inchers in ny.  they are throw backs and the limit here is 50 on seneca lake some times the perch are so big you cant get 20 in a 5 gallon bucket

[Vtgooseman]

Id say you better start catching 12"ers not 8's.  More lb's per fish. 

[swamp puppy]

some places don't have 12 inchers though. i understand where he is coming from. what really bugs me is when i find piles of 3 to 4 inch perch and sunnies left on the ice by fishermen who catch them and leave them to die so they wont have to keep sorting through them for bigger fish. that's a piece of the equation that adds to less fish in the lake.

[Vtgooseman]

some places don't have 12 inchers though. i understand where he is coming from. what really bugs me is when i find piles of 3 to 4 inch perch and sunnies left on the ice by fishermen who catch them and leave them to die so they wont have to keep sorting through them for bigger fish. that's a piece of the equation that adds to less fish in the lake.

I agree.  Nothing says white trash like a pile of fish left on the ice......  Makes all other anglers look bad that happen to fishing near by.

[buck 1]

   he needs to move then  or dont fish for perch really how big is the fillet and is it worth it. maybe let them get bigger. as for my self i would not waste my time.......

[RipSomeLips22]

Maybe lakes in vermont should start having slot limits for all fish caught, like up in carmi with the walleye

[Smelty88]

Unless you get on the hot spot 8-9 inch perch is typical around the st Albans bay are, with that said if u toss back every thing under 10 inches on the areas of Champlain I fish you might as well stay home. A 8 inch perch if you know how to fillet well cleans out just fine to make a nice deep fried fish stick.

[swamp puppy]

agreed. almost all lakes and ponds in VT have perch. you can only regularly catch foot long + perch on one out of every ten or fifteen bodies of water. some guys just don't have a good perch lake near to them. 8 inches is an average keeper in my opinion and i have come home with a limit of 6 to 8 inch perch and had a fine and filling perch dinner when other angler fishing near me went home to nothing because the perch were "too small".

[BassInVt]

i no how you feel smelty, its a dilema no matter how you look at it. I normally only take the amount im gonna eat per week. thats normally two meals for me and my wife. normally two dozen is one meal. As much as i fish, i have no issue's doing this each week.  The biggest problems isnt guys like you and i that want to throw some fish in the freezer for a later meal, its the 5 guys you walk by on the ice, that each one of them filled two 5 gallon buckets of perch or whatever to SELL at the local fish monger who then turns in sells it to restaurants.  And then they come back the next day and do it all over again. instead of getting a real job, there on the ice making a living and hurting the fish populations.  We wonder why the perch we get are no longer the sizes we are looking for or use to, this is a huge part of it, not the normal ice fisherman feeding his family. tight lines bro

[MikeVT]

i no how you feel smelty, its a dilema no matter how you look at it. I normally only take the amount im gonna eat per week. thats normally two meals for me and my wife. normally two dozen is one meal. As much as i fish, i have no issue's doing this each week.  The biggest problems isnt guys like you and i that want to throw some fish in the freezer for a later meal, its the 5 guys you walk by on the ice, that each one of them filled two 5 gallon buckets of perch or whatever to SELL at the local fish monger who then turns in sells it to restaurants.  And then they come back the next day and do it all over again. instead of getting a real job, there on the ice making a living and hurting the fish populations.  We wonder why the perch we get are no longer the sizes we are looking for or use to, this is a huge part of it, not the normal ice fisherman feeding his family. tight lines bro

X2 Right on man, this has pretty much wiped out some decent perch fishing.  Used to see it all the time on Lake St Catherine.  Now it is rare to get a decent catch on this lake.  Ethical catch for me is what I will be eating that evening.

[tracker one]

an ethical catch is what you need to keep to make a meal if its within the legal limit for that water,I believe all commercial fishing in Vt,including LC, should be outlawed,period

[BassInVt]

right on tracker

[seayaknh]

Ethical is relative to how you look at it.  Some days, I've fished all day for a dozen fish. Other days I've been on them and filled a 6-gallon bucket, kept them all, cleaned them all.  Some I keep for myself to eat, the rest I give away to older folks who enjoy fresh perch, but they themselves can't fish.  Am I "unethical"?  I think not.

For many, times are tough financially. If they fish all day for two buckets and sell them for market price to make a few dollars to help them get by, are they unethical?  I think not. 

Each of us need to decide what is right for us. But to pass judgement on others who fish legally, and stay within legal daily limits according to the VT Fish & Game laws is just wrong.  And to me, that is unethical!

[flagfishon]

an ethical catch is what you need to keep to make a meal if its within the legal limit for that water,I believe all commercial fishing in Vt,including LC, should be outlawed,period

I agree.  Perhaps we should take a poll and see how many agree or not, and then make a formal proposal to F&W. 

Here is a link to a yes/no form I created using Google Drive.  If you answer, you will then be able to view other current responses.  I made this public and this is only for our benefit so please only answer once. 

VT Commercial Fishing: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/187T1aHrGwjbGMgIGkV9JryNDP_g0CzcdJ4i0VFpzj-s/viewform

[flagfishon]

Here is the link to check and see what the responses have been.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/187T1aHrGwjbGMgIGkV9JryNDP_g0CzcdJ4i0VFpzj-s/viewanalytics

[Will Vaughan]

With people filling the buckets it's also a matter of how often you get to go. Some people like myself can't go each week to catch a dozen for dinner so if I get a hot spot where I can catch a pail full I'll definitely take it. If you freeze it it will last a long time and none will go to waste for me for sure. This winter especially due to recent events I'm only able to go 2-3 weeks this year. I'm hoping to get a pail full so I can have a fish dinner once maybe twice a week until spring.

With selling fish I don't think the "times are tough" reason plays affect. It's a pretty expensive hobby regardless of how you look at it. Bait prices go up each year, augers aren't cheap, gas to get to and from your spot and I'm sure I'm leaving other parts out. Fish markets also have been going down each year. I know Tom's is paying only .50 cents a pound for 7-8 inch fish and 1.10 per pound for 8 inch plus.  You'd have to really hit them good to catch enough fish to make a profit and stay within VT legal limits. If you're fishing with the intention to make a buck you really shouldn't be fishing in the first place because there is always the possibility of going home empty handed. If you're really struggling you wouldn't take that risk and if you're really struggling why would you sell food at 1.10 per pound max when no other meat is that cheap?

[perchhauler]

champlain can support a commercial fishery because of its size. id say a good 90% of the lake doesn't really get fished all year. some guys just look for a crowd and hit the same spot every year, then wonder why they catch any fish.  the guys making good catches and selling them have put in there time and know the lake, not just the popular spots. fishing with just hook and line, there will always be plenty of fish left for tomorrow. if you guys that cant find fish spent half as much time on the lake as you do on here you would have all the fish you want.  enuff said I guess, I got two 7 gallon pails to go fill...

[dave bartlett]

     Smelty,
 Nothing wrong with that.My problem is these guys go out day after day and fill there buckets ,go home empty them and go back and do it all over again day after day.Not only to find out they are selling them.THATS BULLcrap.And i hope they get caught cause that is not ethical.If I'm not going to eat it, it goes back down the hole.I will give some of my fish to elderly people that can't go ice fishing anymore because of age or health.Good Luck Fishing 

[dave bartlett]

    bassinvt,
  I should have read your post before i wrote mine.You hit it right on the nose.

[vtpike]

Ethical is relative to how you look at it.  Some days, I've fished all day for a dozen fish. Other days I've been on them and filled a 6-gallon bucket, kept them all, cleaned them all.  Some I keep for myself to eat, the rest I give away to older folks who enjoy fresh perch, but they themselves can't fish.  Am I "unethical"?  I think not.

For many, times are tough financially. If they fish all day for two buckets and sell them for market price to make a few dollars to help them get by, are they unethical?  I think not. 

Each of us need to decide what is right for us. But to pass judgement on others who fish legally, and stay within legal daily limits according to the VT Fish & Game laws is just wrong.  And to me, that is unethical!

x2

[pokholes]

Ethical is relative to how you look at it.  Some days, I've fished all day for a dozen fish. Other days I've been on them and filled a 6-gallon bucket, kept them all, cleaned them all.  Some I keep for myself to eat, the rest I give away to older folks who enjoy fresh perch, but they themselves can't fish.  Am I "unethical"?  I think not.

For many, times are tough financially. If they fish all day for two buckets and sell them for market price to make a few dollars to help them get by, are they unethical?  I think not. 

Each of us need to decide what is right for us. But to pass judgement on others who fish legally, and stay within legal daily limits according to the VT Fish & Game laws is just wrong.  And to me, that is unethical!

X3

[mudchuck]

WARNING: ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!
PROBABLY GONNA OFFEND SOME, BUT THE LAST I HEARD THIS IS STILL A FREE COUNTRY TO SPEAK ONE'S MIND

I have my own opinion about the so call "commercial fisherman" on Lake Champlain or other water bodies here in VT.
I'm all for having one's belly cave into their backbone until they get a handle on what "work" is all about...
If a person is abusing the "system" by deceitfully drawing on public assistance to pay their way thru life and they're out "commercially fishing" to get a techincally speaking "under the table income" by fishing daily and hauling the catch to the fish market for cash payment, well that's unethical and probably illegal.

Maybe F&W will consider restrictions on this activity, and maybe the tax collectors will take notice of this unreported income too...

I myself take home what I catch and clean it all for family consumption, once I have some in the freezer, mostly catch & release for the pan fish after that.
Occasionally I'll turn in a single pail of panfish for the cash to purchase more bait, but have never taken the route of pan fishing to fill bucket upon bucket upon bucket for a cash payout.

[shadylane]

Ok I have mixed feeling on this.

I will first say I have never caught fish to sell them commercially.  I have been ice fishing for probably 10-15 years now.  I use to go saturdays and sundays every weekend, and anyother day I didn't have to work.

I will now say I am 32 years old, have two college degrees, have worked at the same engineering firm for 10 years, recently went through a divorce in which I had to sell my house.  I have since bought another house, started dating a girl with a 5yo in which they now live with me.  She doesn't make a ton of money and with daycare, food, propane over $4/gal, cost of living in this expensive state, we are having a hard time making ends meet, and are both considering 2nd jobs to make it all work.  As it is I don't see myself fishing at all right now b/c I can't afford the bait for a day of fishing.  Bait or gas, Bait or groceries?

I am not the typical "scum" "leach" on society.  I work my a$$ off to get by w/o any help from anyone especially the government.

So if I had the time (which I don't with working 40hrs a week and potentially in the future more with a 2nd job) would it be considered unethical or would fellow fisherman frown upon me if I fished to sell my catch to pay to put food on my table and feed my family, or to keep my family warm at night?

No I don't like the thought of people just hauling off every 7" perch they catch therefore hurting my fishing, I like catching slab perch too.  But on the other hand if they are in a place in life that they need to do that to get by and its all within their legal rights, then by all means go at it!  I was brought up you do w/e  you can in your power to make sure you family is safe, happy, warm, and fed.  Thank god I was able to put two deer in the freezer this fall, and traded a couple cord of wood for half a pig before I sold my house or else I would have been scraping even more then I am.

Maybe all in all we shouldn't be so judgemental on these people we SEE doing things, without knowing them, and or their situations.  There are alot of people out there that take advantage of us, the system, and our government entitlements, sure.  But there are also good people out there that are just trying to do whatever they can to get by.  These aren't easy times we're living in.

[anthony19941994]

X2 mudchuck..... With that said, my biggest dilemma regarding ethical limits is towards the smaller table 2 lakes and ponds. 50 perch is the legal limit out of these lakes, multiplied by everybody and their brother legally fishing is ridiculous in my opinion. As mentioned before lake Champlain is most likely 90% untouched on the ice and less susceptible to over fishing. It can and does sustain a massive perch population but fish are not an unlimited resource. Taking so many fish out of these smaller bodies of water is the bigger problem in my opinion. Not good for the fishery in so many ways. 

[seayaknh]

With selling fish I don't think the "times are tough" reason plays affect. It's a pretty expensive hobby regardless of how you look at it. Bait prices go up each year, augers aren't cheap, gas to get to and from your spot and I'm sure I'm leaving other parts out. Fish markets also have been going down each year. I know Tom's is paying only .50 cents a pound for 7-8 inch fish and 1.10 per pound for 8 inch plus.  You'd have to really hit them good to catch enough fish to make a profit and stay within VT legal limits. If you're fishing with the intention to make a buck you really shouldn't be fishing in the first place because there is always the possibility of going home empty handed. If you're really struggling you wouldn't take that risk and if you're really struggling why would you sell food at 1.10 per pound max when no other meat is that cheap?

I agree that fishing commercially isn't profitable. That's why I don't have a problem with guys doing it....there are very few who do it...but in talking to them, they say they need the money. In Lake Champlain, there is no limit on yellow perch. Still very tough to make any money.

[DunmoreFAn]

If any of you want to bring me a pile of perch fillets i wont mind a bit! I'm gonna be layed up for a few weeks and unable to fish  , Hoping i can get on the ice if there is any left in early to mid march!

[fishnmachine]

My 2¢.....I think this "ethical limit" thread is HooDoo!  It's just chat to hear more chat.  If a licensed sportsman is within the limits allowed by the state he's in, he's ethical.  Period.   

[Smelty88]

i would disagree with you on that one legal is not always ethical!

[Smelty88]

it is legal to take shoots at a deer that is 400 yards away but not ethical for most hunters to do so!