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Author Topic: Ethanol testing  (Read 1903 times)

Curley

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #40 on: Sep 05, 2017, 10:37 AM »
For years I would keep a gallon of 2 cycle for the season. Now it's just not worth it. the stuff goes stale in no time flat. It will run like crap after a month or so. Trll me. If E is so dam good then why is it not allowed by law to be used in aviation fuel. And here on the Ct. we can not get e free at the pump.




Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #41 on: Sep 05, 2017, 02:28 PM »
For years I would keep a gallon of 2 cycle for the season. Now it's just not worth it. the stuff goes stale in no time flat. It will run like crap after a month or so. Trll me. If E is so dam good then why is it not allowed by law to be used in aviation fuel. And here on the Ct. we can not get e free at the pump.

Ethanol is used in aviation fuel. It hasn't been pushed has hard, and a lot of aircraft are older that need upgrades to safely use it. The technology is avalible, and will more then likely replace the lead additive.

http://www.theenergycollective.com/jemiller_ep/235571/draft-why-doesn-t-epa-replace-leaded-aviation-gasoline-renewable-ethanol

backwoodswalker

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #42 on: Sep 08, 2017, 08:08 AM »
Talked to the mechanics at k.I sawyer airport.  Asked about ethanol in av gas. Answer was "NO". Up here with our extreme cold winters it won't work. Ethanol attracts water. Result frozen fuel systems. That is from mechanics who work on them. Every winter I see vehicles towed in from a no start or died going down the road. These get pushed in and put up on hoist. 90% of the time its a frozen fuel filter. A lot of vehicles have filter in tank (very stupid idea) they sit in shop overnight to thaw out. A bottle of dry gas usually does the trick. Maybe they are trying ethanol in av gas. Seems like quite a few planes just fall out if the air lately. Just joking. In bad taste too. From what I read into the story. They want to get rid of the lead in av gas. Lead is mostly a lubricant. Does help valves and valve seats. Think back when we had lead in gas. We would wash our hands with it. Do that with ethanol and it takes all the oil off your skin and makes them sore. I kind of think we are kicking a dead horse here. Those of us who have to fix what it destroys, know its not good in carbureted engines. Those who produce and sell it, have to try to convince otherwise. Use it if you want or have to. Because in the end it makes me money too (sadly).   Steve

esox_xtm

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #43 on: Sep 12, 2017, 05:19 AM »
Talked to the mechanics at k.I sawyer airport.  Asked about ethanol in av gas. Answer was "NO". Up here with our extreme cold winters it won't work. Ethanol attracts water. Result frozen fuel systems. That is from mechanics who work on them. Every winter I see vehicles towed in from a no start or died going down the road. These get pushed in and put up on hoist. 90% of the time its a frozen fuel filter. A lot of vehicles have filter in tank (very stupid idea) they sit in shop overnight to thaw out. A bottle of dry gas usually does the trick. Maybe they are trying ethanol in av gas. 

How does dry gas work?

Based on either methanol or isopropyl alcohol, dry gas rids the fuel system of water by binding to the water and then burning it all off in the combustion chamber. Because of alcohol’s extremely low freezing point, it also acts as antifreeze to water-contaminated gasoline.

So the solution to ethanol in the fuel is to add more alcohol? Did I miss something? It all works the same...

I don't get it.
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Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #44 on: Sep 12, 2017, 07:39 AM »
Talked to the mechanics at k.I sawyer airport.  Asked about ethanol in av gas. Answer was "NO". Up here with our extreme cold winters it won't work. Ethanol attracts water. Result frozen fuel systems. That is from mechanics who work on them. Every winter I see vehicles towed in from a no start or died going down the road. These get pushed in and put up on hoist. 90% of the time its a frozen fuel filter. A lot of vehicles have filter in tank (very stupid idea) they sit in shop overnight to thaw out. A bottle of dry gas usually does the trick. Maybe they are trying ethanol in av gas. Seems like quite a few planes just fall out if the air lately. Just joking. In bad taste too. From what I read into the story. They want to get rid of the lead in av gas. Lead is mostly a lubricant. Does help valves and valve seats. Think back when we had lead in gas. We would wash our hands with it. Do that with ethanol and it takes all the oil off your skin and makes them sore. I kind of think we are kicking a dead horse here. Those of us who have to fix what it destroys, know its not good in carbureted engines. Those who produce and sell it, have to try to convince otherwise. Use it if you want or have to. Because in the end it makes me money too (sadly).   Steve

That is the part where old aircraft need upgrades. I mean I wouldn't expect an old tube tv to work well with by 3D blue ray player.

backwoodswalker

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #45 on: Sep 12, 2017, 10:28 AM »
Isopropyl absorbs the water in system. It either evaporates and takes piusture with it or goes through fuel system and is burned in combustion process. .  steve

esox_xtm

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #46 on: Sep 12, 2017, 10:49 AM »
Alcohol is alcohol. Iso, methanol, ethanol doesn't make a difference. Absorb/attract water all the same.
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Skywagon

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #47 on: Sep 12, 2017, 12:10 PM »
That is the part where old aircraft need upgrades. I mean I wouldn't expect an old tube tv to work well with by 3D blue ray player.

I agree, but it will take a lot to get that implemented by the FAA to allow the necessary changes to be made.  Rubber lines, O-rings, rubber carburetor-injector parts, gas tank bladders and engines would all have to be addressed.  The cost to an aircraft owner could potentially be overwhelming, new engines can cost as much as a luxury automobile.

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #48 on: Sep 12, 2017, 04:44 PM »
I agree, but it will take a lot to get that implemented by the FAA to allow the necessary changes to be made.  Rubber lines, O-rings, rubber carburetor-injector parts, gas tank bladders and engines would all have to be addressed.  The cost to an aircraft owner could potentially be overwhelming, new engines can cost as much as a luxury automobile.

They have to tear down aircraft after so many hours of flight and go threw them. The "upgrades" can't be that much since some are doing it.

matzilla

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #49 on: Sep 13, 2017, 01:17 PM »
Alcohol is alcohol. Iso, methanol, ethanol doesn't make a difference. Absorb/attract water all the same.


The usual fix for long-term storage of ethanol fuel is to add a stabilizer, which will contain a high concentration of isopropanol. The main thing that will do is form an azeotropic mixture with water, meaning that its components will evaporate at the same rate, so when the isopropanol evaporates, it takes the water with it. This same mixture, in sufficient concentration, will also burn.



Drygas is just HEET fuel treatment - methanol or iso

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