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Author Topic: Ethanol testing  (Read 1070 times)

Cal64

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Ethanol testing
« on: Aug 12, 2017, 08:13 AM »
Just had to do two carb jobs on lawnmowers due to ethanol in gas. Have been researching,and am finding conflicting info on amounts of ethanol, and even changing amounts in winter vs summer. Found some interesting videos on YouTube about testing for % of ethanol,as well as removal from gas. Has anyone tried this? And did amounts change in winter? Thanks

Baetis62

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #1 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:04 AM »
Cal64 would this website help? All my small engine gear gets non ethanol gas and Ive not had any problems since I made the switch.
https://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=AB

Cal64

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #2 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:56 AM »
Yes,that did help, the station, and the fuel I run was listed on the site as ethanol free. Even the manager of the station didn't know that. The lawn mowers had different gas when they were put Away last fall. Only the good stuff from now on. I will however test it just to see

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #3 on: Aug 13, 2017, 01:44 PM »
So you are making the claim that is was ethanol.....what was wrong any why do you think it was ethanol? I've ran ethanol 10% in all my stuff and have never had a problem. The only problem I have ever had with fuel was with premium fuel having a bunch of water in it, due to not selling since it was some much higher in cost.

Cal64

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #4 on: Aug 13, 2017, 07:03 PM »
I actually don't know if ethanol was the cause of my problems. What I do know is that I never new how to do a carb job. Now in the past few years I do them regularly. The problem is always after the engine, (usually smaller),sits over the winter. When I open up the carb, the bottom end is full of fuel that smells like varnish, with water in it. I used to burn regular fuel in everything, and never had a problem. Now regular fuel burns fine in everything I own, but after things sit, I do carb jobs. The only thing I know of that has changed is the addition of ethanol . This is by no means a scientific test,but I would be interested to know what else it could be

Idahogator

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #5 on: Aug 13, 2017, 08:15 PM »
So you are making the claim that is was ethanol.....what was wrong any why do you think it was ethanol? I've ran ethanol 10% in all my stuff and have never had a problem. The only problem I have ever had with fuel was with premium fuel having a bunch of water in it, due to not selling since it was some much higher in cost.

It is apparent a newcomer to the thread has consumed a large ration of C2H5OH due to the obvious slurring of words and lack of continuity of thought.     

It's times such as this when silence is wiser than a post that proves a fool spoke/typed.
      

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #6 on: Aug 14, 2017, 07:28 AM »
I actually don't know if ethanol was the cause of my problems. What I do know is that I never new how to do a carb job. Now in the past few years I do them regularly. The problem is always after the engine, (usually smaller),sits over the winter. When I open up the carb, the bottom end is full of fuel that smells like varnish, with water in it. I used to burn regular fuel in everything, and never had a problem. Now regular fuel burns fine in everything I own, but after things sit, I do carb jobs. The only thing I know of that has changed is the addition of ethanol . This is by no means a scientific test,but I would be interested to know what else it could be

I'm not saying it isn't or is ethanol. It just seems everyone who has had a problem with fuel blames it on ethanol, and I never hear what the reasoning is. The only actual problem that I've really ever experienced with fuel was with premium from a gas station having water in it.

OldSailor

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #7 on: Aug 14, 2017, 07:47 AM »
I'm not saying it isn't or is ethanol. It just seems everyone who has had a problem with fuel blames it on ethanol, and I never hear what the reasoning is. The only actual problem that I've really ever experienced with fuel was with premium from a gas station having water in it.
Here's some reading for you....
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/forest/basics/ethanol-free-fuel/
http://blog.amsoil.com/how-to-fight-ethanol-problems-in-small-engines/
https://www.bellperformance.com/treat-your-engine/small-engines-and-generators

You're best off avoiding ethanol gas if at all possible!!! It's that simple!!!
My two favorite college football teams are Ohio State and whoever's playing Michigan!!!

Don't reel against the drag!!!

Spider1

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #8 on: Aug 14, 2017, 07:51 AM »
Agro, the problem is that Ethanol attracts water. That's why there was water in your higher octane fuel that had the ethanol in it. The water will get into the fuel system and cause oxidation in the tank and in the engine. If enough water gets into the fuel system the engine will run poorly as well. Another problem is that the ethanol will remove old gunk out of an older motor and clog up the fuel system. Another problem is that when water is left in the fuel for too long the gasoline itself will oxidize. That's where the varnish and gum comes from. This too will clog up the fuel system pretty quickly. There really is documented problems with ethanol in small engine fuel systems. With some maintenance they should be minimal but using ethanol free gasoline is better.

DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #9 on: Aug 14, 2017, 10:39 AM »
my problem with ethanol fuel is it makes gas lines/gaskets/diaphrams brittle in just a year.it gums carbs up for sure.its good in vehicles because the fuel gets used and fresh put in on a regular basis.  but not good in engines that don't get used regularly.ive rebuilt lots of carbs and found it attracts or contains more water than reg gas too.i don't  recommend putting ethanol gas in any small engine or a engine that sits for long periods of time.seafoam it if you do.jmo I work on small engines almost ever day.

ice dawg

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #10 on: Aug 14, 2017, 03:41 PM »
Another Ethanol problem is phase separation. Ethanol attracts moisture which separates during storage. Some boat dealers say it is better to store a boat with an empty tank over winter rather than store it with a full tank of ethanol blend. I burn non Ethanol gas in my boats and small engines.
It seems to go from zero to hero all some have to do is lie.

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #11 on: Aug 14, 2017, 05:15 PM »
Agro, the problem is that Ethanol attracts water. That's why there was water in your higher octane fuel that had the ethanol in it. The water will get into the fuel system and cause oxidation in the tank and in the engine. If enough water gets into the fuel system the engine will run poorly as well. Another problem is that the ethanol will remove old gunk out of an older motor and clog up the fuel system. Another problem is that when water is left in the fuel for too long the gasoline itself will oxidize. That's where the varnish and gum comes from. This too will clog up the fuel system pretty quickly. There really is documented problems with ethanol in small engine fuel systems. With some maintenance they should be minimal but using ethanol free gasoline is better.

Premium doesn't have ethanol

OldSailor

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #12 on: Aug 14, 2017, 05:29 PM »
Most stations selling ethanol fuel have it in all three grades!! It will say it right on the pump. If the station you bought your gas that had water in it doesn't sell ethanol blended gas, then you just plain got gas with water in it! The in ground tank was low and the pump picked it up! It been a problem since before ethanol fuel!!
My two favorite college football teams are Ohio State and whoever's playing Michigan!!!

Don't reel against the drag!!!

filetandrelease

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #13 on: Aug 14, 2017, 05:39 PM »
Here in NY the pumps are labeled E and Non E with the the percentage of E , a few stations here  carry Non E-high high test ,
     

OldSailor

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #14 on: Aug 14, 2017, 05:42 PM »
My two favorite college football teams are Ohio State and whoever's playing Michigan!!!

Don't reel against the drag!!!

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #15 on: Aug 14, 2017, 07:41 PM »
Most stations selling ethanol fuel have it in all three grades!! It will say it right on the pump. If the station you bought your gas that had water in it doesn't sell ethanol blended gas, then you just plain got gas with water in it! The in ground tank was low and the pump picked it up! It been a problem since before ethanol fuel!!

premium is the Non-ethanol fuel at the pumps here/at gas stations in my area.  So yes you are correct, there was water in the fuel. yes it has been a problem before ethanol fuel. Yes we have plenty of choices from e85-premium with no ethanol. Each is labeled. Best fuel for the most mileage I found was E-30. Actually got better mileage then the regular non ethanol.

All I'm trying to get at is anytime someone has a problem they seem to blame ethanol. There were small engine and engine issues before ethanol. Are some caused from ethanol, I'm sure some are. However not every problem is due to ethanol like some seem to believe. Maybe we just have better grades of fuel in my area, but I've ran E-10 in everything and haven't had any problems. Anytime you store stuff for a period simple maintenance and storage prep go a long way. I'm guilty of not doing either, but I've never had a problem either.........

erie eyes

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #16 on: Aug 14, 2017, 08:29 PM »
Agronomist could you be a farmer or ethanol producer? The facts are starting to come out on ethanol, such as there is little proof that there is any savings in pollutants one study says it takes a gallon of petrol to produce each gallon of ethanol, It plugs catalytic converters. It also drys out rubber and removes plasticizers from plastic. We have had problems with gasoline since they took lead out and started adding all kinds of chemicals like mt be.
Having been a mechanic for more than 42 years I have seen the damage this garbage does to fuel systems and engines. Always follow the money and you will see why this is in our fuel, IE farm lobby buying their into our fuel instead of our food, taught the other countries how to raise their own grain now have to figure out somewhere to use it. We will get 15% jammed in our tanks because we use less fuel to day than before. Very few small engines
can use it without ill effects including outboards and motorcycles.

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #17 on: Aug 14, 2017, 09:27 PM »
Agronomist could you be a farmer or ethanol producer? The facts are starting to come out on ethanol, such as there is little proof that there is any savings in pollutants one study says it takes a gallon of petrol to produce each gallon of ethanol, It plugs catalytic converters. It also drys out rubber and removes plasticizers from plastic. We have had problems with gasoline since they took lead out and started adding all kinds of chemicals like mt be.
Having been a mechanic for more than 42 years I have seen the damage this garbage does to fuel systems and engines. Always follow the money and you will see why this is in our fuel, IE farm lobby buying their into our fuel instead of our food, taught the other countries how to raise their own grain now have to figure out somewhere to use it. We will get 15% jammed in our tanks because we use less fuel to day than before. Very few small engines
can use it without ill effects including outboards and motorcycles.

Yes I produce ethanol. Yes I sell ethanol. I also raise milk (dairy), cattle (beef), hogs (pork) and row crops. I'm sure you can tell me how every one of those has ruined the American people's lives, by poison or something else. We are use to hearing B.S. like it every day.

The "studies" you talk of call pollutants CO2 and water vapor. If you Don't know those are the two building blocks we need for life. without CO2 and water plants can't make carbon sugar chains. However, they are labeled pollutants. The exact same "pollutants" come from you with every exhaled breath. So If you can't stand to be in a room with others exhaling pollutants.....I can see your point. Ethanol can be spilled and breaks down fast causing nearly zero impact environmentally. We've had rail cars that crashed and leaked in rivers......environmen tal impacted maybe a few drunk fish......Dump a load of gas/disel/crude and it would be environmental disaster.

Early in production with a lot of plants it took 1 unit energy to produce 1.2-1.5 units of energy. It wasn't a great return. Today at my local ethanol plant for every unit we get back 3 units. I'd say that's a pretty good return. 😮 I've had to fill out the paper work for the Europeans so they could show the "green" energy worked. Now besides getting the 3units we also get feed grade ingredients to feed animals to produce food besides energy. nothing goes to waste. Sounds like you don't understand that we are using a bushel of corn to produce energy (ethanol) and have basicly 1/3 of it left after we produce ethanol to feed to livestock. It is a pretty good deal.

Now, I don't disagree there are some issues with using ethanol currently. However it is nothing we can't make some changes to things to fix. Lead pipes for drinking water were also great at one time vs copper or pvc pipes.

What is Ironic is we have figured out how to turn plant material into a cumbustible fuel for energy, which can be used in the combustible engine. We can do this all in less then about 10months...People complain and fight about it because it's not like using the crude oil created from plants that took millions of years to create, which gives of truely toxic pollutants like carbon monoxide and other things. It's not clean like nuclear that leaves toxic residue for millions of years......Yeah CO2 and water vapor (rain) are terrible.

Oh yes the evil "farmers"  lobbied into your fuel.....lmao. We found a way to produce energy for Americans while also producing food. We took a bushel of grain and used it produce a few gallons of ethanol and some meat for your table instead of just producing the meat. We became more efficient like we have for the last 60yrs. In fact we have became so efficient that we actually made some money for about 3yrs. Today we have record ethanol production, record food production, and prices so low a lot of us will be working for nothing this year. The few ethanol plants that were owned local and giving money to the communities ended up having a lot of them pushed into forced buyouts buy large petroleum companies with hostile takeovers. Yeah it doesn't work..,that's why big oil is buying them up.

Idahogator

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #18 on: Aug 15, 2017, 12:24 AM »
Thank you for the table fare, illustrious intruder from Iowa.

Be forewarned your product looks to begin the phase-out/death in as little as thirteen years.

The "infernal" combustion engine has been on the chopping block since 1969 and it's days are numbered.

                       QUOTES FROM THE LINK BELOW:

 " In 1969 the California State Senate rejected — by one vote — a bill by then State Senator, later Congressman, Anthony Beilenson, to ban the sale of cars powered by internal combustion engines. Beilenson’s bill, motivated by a conviction that California’s critical air pollution crisis could not be solved by gasoline powered autos, has stood for almost half a century as an example of environmental over-reach. "

 " Now technology trends, public insistence, industry investment, and government policy are all signaling that Beilenson’s dream — an end to the burden of a transportation system powered by exploding gasoline or diesel combustion engines — is coming within grasp. "

 " Governments all over the world — California, the Netherlands, Britain, Germany among them — are considering outright bans on the sale of internal combustion engines. (A month ago Norway almost implemented its proposed 2025 ban.) More immediately, Germany, South Korea, Sweden and China are aggressively increasing incentives for EV’s. India’s car manufacturers have joined with the government to phase out IC passenger vehicles by 2030. "

See the article HERE

  Enjoy it while you can.     
      

Spider1

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Re: Ethanol testing
« Reply #19 on: Aug 15, 2017, 04:17 AM »
just one little disagreement. If you dump a bunch of ethanol in a river, the fish don't get drink. They die. It's not like they are hangin at the corner pub or something, they are breathing the stuff not drinking it. A spill like that doesn't have a zero or even near zero environmental impact. Just saying.

Now, I have absolutely nothing against alternative fuels. I just won't bury my head in the sand and pretend there won't be problems along the way to a better fuel. Personally, I don't see ethanol fuels as a good choice though. It really doesn't do anything to solve the problem and only causes more problems.

 

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