BILL H-40

[dickbaker]

    What is a secretary Secretary??    A public water source is available to the public for a variety of uses, including irrigation.
If the bill is intended to protect public water bodies used for public drinking water than it should be more specific!
Dick

[shiveringjoe]

  What is a secretary Secretary??    A public water source is available to the public for a variety of uses, including irrigation.
If the bill is intended to protect public water bodies used for public drinking water than it should be more specific!
Dick

The term "public water source" used in the bill has its own definition shown here: http://dec.vermont.gov/water/drinking-water/public-drinking-water-systems

[keithm87]

The term "public water source" used in the bill has its own definition shown here: http://dec.vermont.gov/water/drinking-water/public-drinking-water-systems

At least someone is doing some research! Heard mentality is strong on this issue apparently. Luckily railing against something without verifying its impact does nothing to impact credibility in our alternative facts world. But we might get further in our goals if more people took the step to research issues before jumping to a conclusion. I have not been able to find a SINGLE water body this would impact as all the ones that I know of that get water from a lake/pond/res, already restrict the use of gas engines. This is just formalizing current DEC rules into an on the books law.

[pikeaddict]

Does Chittenden, Harriman, Waterbury, or Somerset reservoirs supply drinking water?

[jbritch]

For DickBaker: the first "secretary" was lined out in the bill and replaced with "Secretary" to reflect the Secretary's importance; both appear in the bill currently.  I wrote to Ms. Sheldon.

Here's Amy's response to my inquiry:

Hi Jim,
Thank you for letting me know about iceshanty.com and for your reasonable request for information. Your note stands out among the others for its civility.  I will do my best to get information out though this bill is not being considered right now and I believe an alternative has been proposed.

Representative Amy Sheldon
Middlebury/Addison 1
Sent from my iPad

Our democratic process is alive and well... just gotta keep the pressure on (civilly) and here's why:

As a veteran of the Vietnam War I am keenly aware of the "dominoe effect" or as some call it, the "slippery slope".  Laws are more difficult to change than are plain definitions; that is the key element for everyone to watch, that being the definition of "public water source".  The definition currently applies to bodies of water that supply 15 "households" or at least 25 "persons" on average for at least 60 days (not necessarily contiguous) with "drinking water".  The definitions of "households", and "drinking water" may seem pretty concrete (they're not) but "persons" is going to change real soon because the next "first in the nation" that Vermont will be known for (except maybe that of "Sanctuary state") is the right to marry ANY sentient being.  In a land grab (or water grab, in this case) for something desirable to someone, the definitions are the first thing to change and usually under the radar when you're not looking.  Any influential long-term tourist can set up camp on one of our favorite ponds and begin raising exotic poultry, some with interesting abilities (to her) and the next thing you know, wham, you're standing on the shore scratching your head wondering how we got this far.

Berlin Pond is a prime example.  At least on person in that area was appalled to see icefishermen standing on their "public water source" for Barre doing all the things fishermen do while on the ice for long periods of time.  And for years the debate waged on with various degrees of access for recreational fishermen.  I remember one fisherman lamenting that he suddenly couldn't go fishing where he'd been going all his life because someone feared he might "evacuate" on the ice while the main complainer's dog did its business at the water's edge every morning.  Remember the South Burlington school mascot just got changed from "Rebel" to an as yet to be determined entity because of ONE new person's complaint.

Oh, and the "lost" hunting grounds is a real thing.  When Howard Dean needed money he changed the way farm land was being taxed (ah, those darn definitions) and the landowners responded in a massive state-wide posting of their properties which had a major impact on the VAST trails.  Much of that land remains posted today which severely restricts where I can hunt; that's "lost" for sure.

And, as far as the good intentions of our long-term tourists, we know that a portion of them are just normal people, just good honest people,  But there is a blatant fact that they (in general) come here with more education and a steady flow of money from trust funds that is taxed at a lower rate than that on my hard labors (ah, those darn definitions again) and can buy property at a higher price than I could ever afford even after saving for 50 years even though they're working at a lower wage than I can take because of that trust fund.  I propose that every new immigrant regardless of personal wealth who comes here and buys a property must buy one of similar value for a native.

All this might be for naught anyway as the bill, according to Amy, is not currently being considered and an alternative has already been proposed; that's what we've got to keep an eye out for.

Anyway, looks like St. Patty's day will be a good day to exercise my current right to fish on a Vermont body of water...

[spot]

Actually camps aren't allowed to draw drinking water from lakes and ponds. We had to drill a well, within a stone's throw of the lake. 


There are certain lakes and ponds I'd like to see restricted to paddle-only, the thing is that most already are just by their geography. There's no sense in a one-size-fits-all approach.

[dickbaker]

The term "public water source" used in the bill has its own definition shown here: http://dec.vermont.gov/water/drinking-water/public-drinking-water-systems

Thanks for the reference.   But it refers to "Public Drinking Water System"  rather than"public water source".   It confirms my opinion that the bill is poorly written and lacks specifics.   Is it possible that municipalities should be responsible for such regulations?
Dick

[thefishingweatherman]

It's not just out of staters posting their land these days. As a hunter, sure, I'd love for everything to not be posted, but I have also seen some downright reckless and dangerous hunting out there, and can't blame someone for posting their land to either hunt it themselves, or to keep these reckless types away from their home. Posted land can still be hunted - you just need written permission from the owner. Simply introducing yourself and shaking a hand goes a long way to this end.

As much as I hate to see everything posted, I also hate it when some entitled feeling locals tear down posted signs so they can say they "never saw a posted sign" when they are busted for being on private property. "I have hunted here for years" doesn't cut it.

[Crayfish2]

It's not just out of staters posting their land these days. As a hunter, sure, I'd love for everything to not be posted, but I have also seen some downright reckless and dangerous hunting out there, and can't blame someone for posting their land to either hunt it themselves, or to keep these reckless types away from their home. Posted land can still be hunted - you just need written permission from the owner. Simply introducing yourself and shaking a hand goes a long way to this end.

As much as I hate to see everything posted, I also hate it when some entitled feeling locals tear down posted signs so they can say they "never saw a posted sign" when they are busted for being on private property. "I have hunted here for years" doesn't cut it.

Well said, fishingweatherman!  I've dealt with all of those situations on land I have permission to hunt and keep posted for the landowner.  It gets old.

[peteinvermont]

...but I have also seen some downright reckless and dangerous hunting out there, and can't blame someone for posting their land to either hunt it themselves, or to keep these reckless types away from their home. Posted land can still be hunted - you just need written permission from the owner. Simply introducing yourself and shaking a hand goes a long way to this end.

Probably the same stuff that will get the bill passed though.  "Most motorized fisherment on this public water supply are responsible and careful, but a few were reckless and ruined it for all"

[tracker one]

I am happy to see that my post aroused a lot of people to comment.My main reason for posting was to get people aware of the potential of this bill passing.Just because someone says it won't be passed doesn't mean they won't try again,and next time it may be more cleverly hidden.Be aware.

[jbritch]

Ditto to that!