Follow-Up To 20 Min Break For Unattended Ice Fishing Traps

[JDK]

I warned you not to have that extra cup of coffee Jay.

Sometimes it is hard to find a Polaris to pee on.  Come on.....

[Loves To Fish]

I have had multiple interactions with wardens in the past.  I have been given different answers to the same question from different Wardens.  I don't think they are trying to do this, I believe they are simply human and are attempting to do their best at understanding a complex law book.  When the law doesn't define unattended it then is up to each Warden to interpret it.  I think the 20 minutes is probably fair, and much like the fact most police officers will give you 5-10 miles over the speed limit before they pull you over, takes into account human nature.  But, if that Warden has a hair across his butt that day, you may well be forced to go to court to get a judge to agree with you about the definition of unattended.

The truth of the matter is I sleep well at night.  Some things seem rather easy to "legislate" and time away from a tip up seems to me to be one of them.  I can already see the post next year,  "I was gone for 18 minutes to get a buddy that showed up late and got a ticket.  The warden said 22.  Where is that written and how could that mean o' warden do that to me."

 

Okay guys, can we at least agree to disagree?

Hey Jay, would you send me a PM if your above scenario gets posted next year. I highly doubt it ever occurring, but would love to be proven wrong.

[Loves To Fish]

Oh no, I've been typing on here way past 20 mins. I got to get back to my ice traps.

[JDK]

Oh no, I've been typing on here way past 20 mins. I got to get back to my ice traps.

Why don't you ask jacksmelt or MGK about warden discretion and the warden in your area now.   

[gamefisher]

The other one that scares me is the 12 year old driving the snowmobile "under immediate supervision."  Does that mean on back with them?  They are on a sled 20' in front of yours? etc etc.  I'm a very black and white type of guy, laws that leave room for interruption scare the heck out of me, depending on who, how, what, etc.  These guys have an impossible job with some of the idiots they come in contact with on an almost daily basis, I might be a little jaded myself in their shoes

My interaction with the W.S. has always been fair and pleasant because I don't give them a reason to be any different.

[JDK]

The other one that scares me is the 12 year old driving the snowmobile "under immediate supervision."  Does that mean on back with them?  They are on a sled 20' in front of yours? etc etc.  I'm a very black and white type of guy, laws that leave room for interruption scare the heck out of me, depending on who, how, what, etc.  These guys have an impossible job with some of the idiots they come in contact with on an almost daily basis, I might be a little jaded myself in their shoes

My interaction with the W.S. has always been fair and pleasant because I don't give them a reason to be any different.

Not sure if you ever watch North Woods Law but the warden on Long Lake busted a father whose children were riding jet skies around their party barge.  His first comment before getting close was that the jet skies were too close to the party barge and when he found out what was happening he changed it to immediate supervision.  Said the adult had to be on the craft not near.  Adrienne Marquis.

[gamefisher]

Not sure if you ever watch North Woods Law but the warden on Long Lake busted a father whose children were riding jet skies around their party barge.  His first comment before getting close was that the jet skies were too close to the party barge and when he found out what was happening he changed it to immediate supervision.  Said the adult had to be on the craft not near.  Adrienne Marquis.

I do not watch.  Thank you for the insight, I would think jet skis and sleds would be perceived the same in the eyes of the law.

[Loves To Fish]

I'm 59 years old, been hunting and fishing in the outdoors most of my life. Never had a bad experience with the warden service. That being said, I've heard of a few stories about hunters and fishermen with the warden service. Just like Jay and GF's examples above, I would have immediately followed up with GWS head quarters in Augusta to find out exactly what is legal and what isn't legal in the field.
Here's a quick example of what I mean: A buddy and I we're down on the coast a year ago to dip some ocean smelts. After we finished dipping our limits and started to leave, we were met by 2 DMR officers who wanted to measure us up. But they wanted to measure our smelts dry and I wanted to measure them wet so they wouldn't die. I wanted to fish with them live. They said no and measured them dry. We had about 2 dozen die from being measured.
The next day, I went to the DMR office in Augusta and inquired about their measuring up practices. They quickly told me that their officers were incorrect in how they measured our smelts the night before. They said they would send out a memo to all DMR officers in the field to ensure wet measuring smelts is legal. Haven't had a problem since. Just saying that if people think they got a raw deal, then go or call the main office to get clarification on what exactly you can or can not do in the outdoors.

[Loves To Fish]

Hey Jay,
                Have MGK and Jacksmelt post some of their interactions with the warden service here or PM me with them. Would love to hear their circumstances.

[JDK]

Hey Jay,
                Have MGK and Jacksmelt post some of their interactions with the warden service here or PM me with them. Would love to hear their circumstances.

Since you are the one who seems to want to disagree I'm sure if you PM they will tell you.  Matt is 300 miles out in the Bearing Sea right now so I think PMs may be out for a bit.

[Loves To Fish]

You brought up Jacksmelt and MGK Jay. I was just curious to what they had to say. No problem, I can wait to another time to talk to them.

[JDK]

Don't take anything I say to mean that I am anti-warden.  I'm not.  They have a difficult job and most likely run into pricks on a daily basis.  I get nervous when I have to worry about memos, moods, and attitudes (on both ends).  I could be the nicest guy in the world or a giant you know what, either I'm within the law or I'm not.  Maybe I am like gamefisher (Good Lord) in that black and white.  If I have broken the law, I'll take my punishment like a man.  If not, let's not worry if I have been gone for 15 minutes or 25.  I fish for relaxation, not confrontation. 

As I said, it seems to me that what is said on IS isn't going to cut it in a court.  I also bet that there a 1000 more icefishers out there that have no idea that this directive even exists.  When is it applied?  Across the board of if I'm a nice guy?  Here's an even better idea, since the state seems quick to open and close seasons depending on ice conditions or tell us that the ice is thin, how about a press release with the wording in the memo.  If it isn't a problem to be gone for a time frame, make it well known.   I think 20 minutes makes sense.  I also think that if I am going to be gone for 20 minutes my lines will be pulled in the hole.  I'm not giving any warden (nice or not) the in to look for something else.
 

[Loves To Fish]

Don't take anything I say to mean that I am anti-warden.  I'm not.  They have a difficult job and most likely run into pricks on a daily basis.  I get nervous when I have to worry about memos, moods, and attitudes (on both ends).  I could be the nicest guy in the world or a giant you know what, either I'm within the law or I'm not.  Maybe I am like gamefisher (Good Lord) in that black and white.  I fish for relaxation, not confrontation. 

As I said, it seems to me that what is said on IS isn't going to cut it in a court.  I also bet that there a 1000 more icefishers out there that have no idea that this directive even exists.  When is it applied?  Across the board of if I'm a nice guy?  I think 20 minutes makes sense.  I also think that if I am going to be gone for 20 minutes my lines will be pulled in the hole.  I'm not giving any warden (nice or not) the in to look for something else.
 

Well lookie here Jay,
                              I "agree" with most of your last post. I bet it's closer to 95% of ice fishers who don't know about this change and I also wouldn't depend on any ice shanty post for 100% accuracy in fishing regs.  That's why I say to do your homework and call Maine Inland Fisheries and Wildlife to get educated. Or simply play it safe and never leave your traps unattended no matter how hard you have to cross your legs. LOL

[woodchip]

Only allow jig poles. simple fix . Out law traps.

[Loves To Fish]

Just to add a little more info on this subject. The Warden Service stated that this was such a small issue to them and that they rarely have many unattended ice trap issues so this could be resolved by sending a memorandum to the wardens in the field.
After reading this thread, one would think we're trying to smuggle uranium into Maine.

[Loves To Fish]

Only allow jig poles. simple fix . Out law traps.

Better yet WC, use whatever you want to ice fish with, just no chisels or augers allowed. LOL

[Moosekill]

My buddies father in law, fishing up North went to talk with some buddies came back with a flag up, went to pull it, found the line had been cut and a warden came up and gave him a ticket for untended trap.  It was 10 years ago probably, the warden didn't like him, and who knows how long it was untended, although he always swore it was brief.  So it has happened in the past.

Not sure if you are getting annoyed by this all, the example you gave actually proves my point.  Two wardens didn't understand the fishing rules, if it had been a fine able offense you would have gotten a ticket, it wasn't so you got away with a bunch of dead smelt.  If you had been fined you would have had to go to a judge and explain this all to him, and who knows what the judge would have done.  That is why I hate laws that aren't black and white. 

 

[grub662]

Better yet WC, use whatever you want to ice fish with, just no chisels or augers allowed. LOL

Never trust a guy with a crap eating grin with an Artic Cat in the background...

[Loves To Fish]

My buddies father in law, fishing up North went to talk with some buddies came back with a flag up, went to pull it, found the line had been cut and a warden came up and gave him a ticket for untended trap.  It was 10 years ago probably, the warden didn't like him, and who knows how long it was untended, although he always swore it was brief.  So it has happened in the past.

Not sure if you are getting annoyed by this all, the example you gave actually proves my point.  Two wardens didn't understand the fishing rules, if it had been a fine able offense you would have gotten a ticket, it wasn't so you got away with a bunch of dead smelt.  If you had been fined you would have had to go to a judge and explain this all to him, and who knows what the judge would have done.  That is why I hate laws that aren't black and white.

All I'm saying ,Moosekill, is that even if my example was a ticketed offense, it would never make it in front of a judge because the main office would quickly correct the mistake made by the 2 field officers.
Don't go by just my word, check it out with your local warden.
I think we all have made known our views on this, enough so that we are just beating a dead horse.
People who are scared, uncomfortable,  and / or paranoid about being ticketed should never leave their traps unattended. The rest of us realize this is just a courtesy from MWS and will happily use it from time to time. No worries here.

[MGK]

What JDK is getting at is Jacksmelt and I had a run in with a warden who is currently in your area LTF and he was busting our chops for having traps spread out too far. He said that he couldn't see my farthest one when I could see it just fine. Who's vision do we go off of in that situation, mine or his? Not ticket was written but he was sure trying to find something. Even accused me of using perch for bait because I had a dead one near one of my holes. Not a very uncommon occurrence on the FRC if you ask me.

[Moosekill]

You could always talk to Randy Spencer about his thoughts on the Maine Warden Service.  Pretty sure a call to the home office didn't get that ticket taken away.
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/090605/nat_090605056.shtml

[Loves To Fish]

What JDK is getting at is Jacksmelt and I had a run in with a warden who is currently in your area LTF and he was busting our chops for having traps spread out too far. He said that he couldn't see my farthest one when I could see it just fine. Who's vision do we go off of in that situation, mine or his? Not ticket was written but he was sure trying to find something. Even accused me of using perch for bait because I had a dead one near one of my holes. Not a very uncommon occurrence on the FRC if you ask me.

Thanks for input MGK. Glad it didn't result in any tickets. In your case, as long as you can see your traps, you're good to go. I for one can attest for your keen eyesight. When I was fortunate enough to ice fish with you, your dad, jacksmelt, and teampar on Eagle Lake a few years back, you were the only one in the group who could see the furthest flags go up when a fish hit. For that reason, I carry a pair of binoculars with me when I go ice fishing. That way, even this aging fisherman can see all my flags. That is also legal to use.
BTW, ole EB is in our area now. He paid us a visit last year while we we're spring smelting by boat. He is the only warden in 30 years to walk through such a nasty, gnarly piece of thick woods just to check on us. I will say he's tenacious.

[Loves To Fish]

You could always talk to Randy Spencer about his thoughts on the Maine Warden Service.  Pretty sure a call to the home office didn't get that ticket taken away.
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/090605/nat_090605056.shtml

Thanks for that story Moosekill. I don't know quite what to say. It's hard to compare Randy's story with allowing ice fishermen a 20 min break from watching there ice traps so they may go to the bathroom, go retrieve a forgotten item at their vehicle, or maybe pick up another fisherman who wants to join their group out on the water. It's just a simple courtesy now being offered from the warden service.
Although, Mr. Spencer's story does remind me of a story a few years back on Rangeley Lake. Two guys decide to troll Rangeley Lake one day. It was an excellent fishing day, they both took turns catching and releasing over 30 salmon. One of the fishermen kept a salmon early in the day. Rangeley Lake's salmon regs say only one salmon may be kept per fisherman. When it came time to leave, the second fisherman decided he would keep the next salmon caught as long as it was over the 16 inch length limit. Well it just so happens, that they had doubles to end their great day on the water. When both fish were beside the boat, the first fisherman, who already kept a salmon earlier, had a little bigger salmon on his line than the second fisherman had on his. So the second fisherman says to the first fisherman, I'll take your salmon home with me so we'd be legal in each taking a salmon home. Well as soon as the killed the second salmon, out comes a fast approaching boat with 2 wardens in it. They stated that they had been watching the 2 fishermen having a very successful morning of salmon fishing, but would have to summons the first fisherman for catching and killing 2 salmon.
All the 2 salmon fishermen had to do to be legal, was when the last two fish were brought up along side their boat, the second fisherman should have taken the first fisherman's rod and landed that fish.
I guess what I'm getting at, since neither you or I were with Mr. Spencer that day, neither of us knows for sure what happened. By catching and releasing so many bass that day, maybe Mr. Spencer got complacent and decided, even though the undercover warden kept and killed 3 bass, that it was okay to claim one of the bass. I don't know and I'm only speculating here. But I find it difficult to believe that the WS would pinch a guide simply because he took customers away from another establishment.
What do you guys think?

[hardwatergrampa]

I have a friend who hunted with some of the pre named wardens  , I have great respect for the mws  but in this case I would side with spencer

[9huskies]

Thanks for that story Moosekill. I don't know quite what to say. It's had to compare Randy's story with allowing ice fishermen a 20 min break from watching there ice traps so they may go to the bathroom, go retrieve a forgotten item at their vehicle, or maybe pick up another fisherman who wants to join their group out on the water. It's just a simple courtesy now being offered from the warden service.
Although, Mr. Spencer's story does remind me of a story a few years back on Rangeley Lake. Two guys decide to troll Rangeley Lake one day. It was an excellent fishing day, they both took turns catching and releasing over 30 salmon. One of the fishermen kept a salmon early in the day. Rangeley Lake's salmon regs say only one salmon may be kept per fisherman. When it came time to leave, the second fisherman decided he would keep the next salmon caught as long as it was over the 16 inch length limit. Well it just so happens, that they had doubles to end their great day on the water. When both fish were beside the boat, the first fisherman, who already kept a salmon earlier, had a little bigger salmon on his line than the second fisherman had on his. So the second fisherman says to the first fisherman, I'll take your salmon home with me so we'd be legal in each taking a salmon home. Well as soon as the killed the second salmon, out comes a fast approaching boat with 2 wardens in it. They stated that they had been watching the 2 fishermen having a very successful morning of salmon fishing, but would have to summons the first fisherman for catching and killing 2 salmon.
All the 2 salmon fishermen had to do to be legal, was when the last two fish were brought up along side their boat, the second fisherman should have taken the first fisherman's rod and landed that fish.
I guess what I'm getting at, since neither you or I were with Mr. Spencer that day, neither of us knows for sure what happened. By catching and releasing so many bass that day, maybe Mr. Spencer got complacent and decided, even though the undercover warden kept and killed 3 bass, that it was okay to claim one of the bass. I don't know and I'm only speculating here. But I find it difficult to believe that the WS would pinch a guide simply because he took customers away from another establishment.
What do you guys think?

I remember a similar incident in Rangeley. Two fishermen were leaving for home after a few days of camping and fishing. One truck was towing the camper and the other was towing the boat. They stopped at Oquossoc Grocery to buy ice.  They took two salmon out of their cooler dumped in the ice and put the salmon on top.  A warden saw the whole thing and busted the owner of the truck with the cooler for having more than the bag limit. Nobody who saw it happen was impressed. Everyone thought the warden should have told them to buy a cheap foam cooler and put one salmon in each truck.

[Loves To Fish]

Good story 9huskies. I believe it is perfectly legal to have the 2 fish in the same cooler as long as both fishermen are with said cooler until they get home. I surely would be calling MWS in Augusta to clear up that one.

[nbg]

I used the 20 minute thing and took a wheeler ride uplake today.

On a different note. If I catch a fish and my buddy kills it, then who's fish is it. Lol

[9huskies]

Good story 9huskies. I believe it is perfectly legal to have the 2 fish in the same cooler as long as both fishermen are with said cooler until they get home. I surely would be calling MWS in Augusta to clear up that one.

If both fishermen were in one truck it would have been legal. Because they were driving two trucks it was technically illegal. I'm not dropping names but you can probably guess who the warden was.

[Loves To Fish]

Interesting. I would of thought as long as you're traveling with the party carrying the fish in a cooler that it would be legal, even if you're in a separate vehicle.

[Moosekill]

From these stories perhaps you are getting that
A.  Black and white laws are usually better then the gray ones.
B.  While I personally have never had a bad experience with a Warden, there are some difficult ones who are willing to use those gray laws against people.
C.  I have never ever heard of a call to Augusta making a ticket go away.