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Author Topic: Protecting your favorite trophy lake  (Read 3217 times)

Offline sebagosalmo

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Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:55 AM »
So I haven't been posting a whole lot , but I notice some of the previous post about the fishing going to hell on some of your favorite lakes .

My beliefs are like many of you on this sight !  That larger fish should be released. That slot limits if needed be added, as well as trophy classification lakes should be added to protect the fisheries we all love .

So my questions are ;

Would most agree to to add more trophy classifications lakes to the Maine list ?

Here some Examples


Closeing Long Lake in the County to Ice Fishing for Salmon & Brook trout
or 2 trap limit no live bait

Adding slot limits to protect larger Lake trout in East Grand

Closeing trophy classified water to Ice fishing tourneys unless otherwise suggested by State of Maine Biologist due to over population of fish . Example Sebago & Moosehead Lake Trout


Closeing of takeing smelts in open water or ice fishing seasons . Again unless overpopulation problem is recognized by IF&W professionals

Trophy size limits in Trophy Lakes . Example 26 inch legal limit on Salmon

For the the warm water fishery guys :
Protecting large Crappie with a limit restriction & size limit on trophy crappie waters . Example Large & Small mouth bass laws


I know some will think its crazy to include crappie or possibly pike but some fisherman love these fish as much as we all love our cold water fish here in Maine .
As you all have seen we have a much better than average trophy fishery for Crappie & Pike and personaly even though they are invasive they should have regulation on certain trophy waters to protect these fisheries .


For those of you wanting to catch trophy fish., What sacrifices would you make to protect your favorite fish & fisheries ?
What are your thoughts on this topic .

And remember be nice no negativity  , everyone has a right to thier opinion  ;D

Offline blacktrap

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #1 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:10 AM »
First off why would you propose that Ice fisherman should be subject to rules that open water fisherman are not subject to?  Why not close long lake to summer fishing?
I care about catching "trophy" fish as much as I care about shooting so called "trophy" deer, doesn't even enter into where I go.   Lakes having large fish in them is a lot more complex than just putting slot limits or max length limits on fish.  You can have all the regs you want, but if a lake isnt capable of growing large fish it isnt going to happen.

Offline Mossypumpkin

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #2 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:13 AM »
Agree 100%. Water bodies should be managed for what they're realistically going to produce. If the state starts stocking sebasticook lake with brookies, that doesn't make it a brookie lake. It need to be managed for its bass and crappie. This state isn't just a cold water fishery anymore...
Killin time til swimbait season..

Offline nathancarter

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #3 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:22 AM »
Water quality needs to be improved on a lot of ponds and lakes before you can consider putting trophy regulations in place. 

Offline bee

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #4 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:34 AM »
Agree 100%. Water bodies should be managed for what they're realistically going to produce. If the state starts stocking sebasticook lake with brookies, that doesn't make it a brookie lake. It need to be managed for its bass and crappie. This state isn't just a cold water fishery anymore...
 

They don't know that in Augusta.
Thats Why They Call It Fishing.

Offline chillywillie

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #5 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:41 AM »
I think there should be some more slot limits in place on certain areas.  There's definitely a need for some regulations on warmwater fisheries.  We place a lot of emphasis on trout and salmon but the percentage of water that would maintain a remotely successful fishery for trout and salmon without stocking are few and far between (and mostly all up north).  As said above, the water quality also needs to be greatly improved in a lot of places before they could even sustain normal reproduction of coldwater species never mind reach trophy status.

Offline cap

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #6 on: Feb 08, 2016, 08:38 AM »
Quote
First off why would you propose that Ice fisherman should be subject to rules that open water fisherman are not subject to?  Why not close long lake to summer fishing?

I agree wholeheartedly.

I have been involved with fisheries advocacy on and off again for several dozens of years and there is far too much of individual factions and groups of anglers who profess to take the high moral ground and look down their noses at other fishermen! 

Coldwater vs warmwater....fly fishermen vs spin anglers....fly anglers vs ice anglers...trout anglers vs bass anglers..

There is a lot of "us versus them" kind of stuff that goes on even within sportsmen groups that should be united.  This internecine battling is counter productive.

I am more prone to now leave all of it in the hands of the fisheries scientists....there is no place for politics...but politics is what drives much of everything in Disgusta!

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #7 on: Feb 08, 2016, 08:52 AM »
i agree the smelts need a lot more protection up here. I've said that many times to our head bios. when the smelts were plentiful the fish were big, fat and also plentiful up here. now the ones that you do get are mostly skinny. that goes for all the f.r.c of lakes. something has to be done to reduce the y. perch population. they're one of the reasons the smelt population is crashing. i say put some togue in there. they were native to every lake in the fishery originally. yeah they'll eat some smelt but they'll eat those baby perch too. squa pan lake had a big perch problem 20 yrs. ago. since they put splake in there you rarely get perch and the smelts bounced back. togue I've gotten out of the lakes w/ perch in them have a lot of baby perch in  their bellys. let them eating machines make a comeback up here and do what they do best. eat! id bet my left leg that in 10yrs. you would see a big drop in perch numbers!

Offline woodchip

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #8 on: Feb 08, 2016, 09:16 AM »


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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake

« Reply #3 on: Today at 06:22 AM »


Quote

 

Water quality needs to be improved on a lot of ponds and lakes before you can consider putting trophy regulations in place  Simple just have dump truck loads of SODA ASH dumped up stream!!!!!!

Offline JDK

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #9 on: Feb 08, 2016, 09:27 AM »
In my humble opinion slot limits only work if fishermen use care.  However, I can see a fish bouncing around on the ice or in the bottom of the boat while a tape measure is being reached for.  Then, if it doesn't fit, it goes back over and the fisherman announces that the fish were released.

I know this isn't a Long Lake thread but I can tell you what I see.  I spent a lot of time on that lake in the 1990 and 2000s,  Long Lake was an impaired water body and had high nutrient concentrations from roads, farms, residences, and forestry.  It turned green in August.  It was also a smelt factory and no secret of the fish it produced.  The winter season started January 15th and ended March 15th.  Today it is January 1 to March 31st.  (an extra month).  When I first started fishing it, 18+ inch brookies (in spots) were the norm.  Now you cannot weed through the perch fast enough.  6+ pound salmon were also common.  Today, not so much.  In the winter, you could find spots in the later season that hadn't been fished.  Today, good luck.

In the summer, just about every boat on the lake was a 14 footer with a 8-15 hp outboard and maybe 1 down rigger.  The norm was to troll heavy leadcore, on broomstick rods, with a davis rig and a yellow bellied chub.  Today, it is 16-20 foot Lunds, polar Krafts, starcrafts, with multiple downrigger, color graphs, GPS, planer boards, fluorocarbon, and a far better lure selection.  In other words, fishermen became far more sophisticated.

At the same time, there are internet,  derbies, smelt dipping and other such pressures placed on the fisheries.  People felt the need to show off their catches, and much like East Grand, cannot let a decent fish go.  Individually, the mindset of "I'm only keeping this 8 pounder" doesn't work when there are 10 such fish being killed and kept every weeken.  Even if it were a C&R scenario, these fish are being whacked 8 months out of the year.  I see far more fish with hook marks on them than ever.  We strove to be like the rest of the state and succeed.

Today we have cleaner water, fewer smelt, smaller salmon, and a ton of yellow perch.  As jacksmelt said, we need to get the perch population under control.  It is crazy how bad they are and we should have eagles that weight 100 pounds.  I don't know if a shorter seasons would help.  Seems to me that all that would do is push the pressure into a tighter timeframe.  A dead fish on Jan. 1 would be a dead fish on January 15th.   Maybe it is line limits, season limits, or whatever.  I still think you need bait and without that we are screwed.

Just my 2 cents.
I'm just here to read what all the experts have to say.

Offline Huemorin

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #10 on: Feb 08, 2016, 11:54 AM »
As most know when I go to the county I generally fish Square Lake and have for the past 10 years or so.  When I first started going up there it was exactly what JDK said January 15th, until March 15th.  At the time I believe you could only keep one salmon over 16inches.  That all changed a few years ago when you can fish January 1 until March 31, and with that came a 3 salmon limit and they only have to be 12 inches.  I don't know about you guys but I don't keep 12 inch salmon. 
However, Square has some good fish in it obviously but there should be many more with the little pressure it gets, although I will say what a turnover on that lake in the last 5 years.  5 years ago on the 4th of July you might see 5 boats, now a lot of the camps have turned over to a younger crowd and there are definitely more folks around the lake.  I think the problem is there are too many Salmon in there and we need to take some of the smaller ones out but it just doesn't get enough pressure.  I don't believe the smelts are an issue because last ice fishing season I caught a smelt on a smelt and I have also caught a couple trolling lead line, so I would say they are plentiful at least there, but I say that not knowing what it was like more than 10 years ago.

Offline sebagosalmo

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #11 on: Feb 08, 2016, 12:17 PM »
First off why would you propose that Ice fisherman should be subject to rules that open water fisherman are not subject to?  Why not close long lake to summer fishing?
I care about catching "trophy" fish as much as I care about shooting so called "trophy" deer, doesn't even enter into where I go.   Lakes having large fish in them is a lot more complex than just putting slot limits or max length limits on fish.  You can have all the regs you want, but if a lake isnt capable of growing large fish it isnt going to happen.

First off every good  fisherman knows its very easy to catch Salmon & Brook trout through the ice
Both these species of fish are extremely agressive and use only specific portions of the water colum .
That's why I mentioned ice fishing over open water fishing
As for protecting fisheries on open water look at Moosehead it protects large areas of prime spawning areas and smelt run areas that allow no fishing period !
I like many of the folks that fish Long remember when it was protected & produced 7-10 lb Salmon regularly . Look at some of the best Salmon & Brook Trout fisheries in this State they are highly protected and Ice fishing is not allowed on the majority of these trophy waters !

It's good that we all can discus these issues to maybe change the future of some fisheries or get others perspective of what should change or not .

Thanks for your insight

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #12 on: Feb 08, 2016, 04:03 PM »
As most know when I go to the county I generally fish Square Lake and have for the past 10 years or so.  When I first started going up there it was exactly what JDK said January 15th, until March 15th.  At the time I believe you could only keep one salmon over 16inches.  That all changed a few years ago when you can fish January 1 until March 31, and with that came a 3 salmon limit and they only have to be 12 inches.  I don't know about you guys but I don't keep 12 inch salmon. 
However, Square has some good fish in it obviously but there should be many more with the little pressure it gets, although I will say what a turnover on that lake in the last 5 years.  5 years ago on the 4th of July you might see 5 boats, now a lot of the camps have turned over to a younger crowd and there are definitely more folks around the lake.  I think the problem is there are too many Salmon in there and we need to take some of the smaller ones out but it just doesn't get enough pressure.  I don't believe the smelts are an issue because last ice fishing season I caught a smelt on a smelt and I have also caught a couple trolling lead line, so I would say they are plentiful at least there, but I say that not knowing what it was like more than 10 years ago.
  me , teampar and alex delarge tried my old spot last year on square, that 15yrs ago i used to get my half gallon of smelt by 10 in the morning. we caught 1! the problem is not too many salmon but too many perch eating the smelts which is the primary forage for the salmon. the reason the bios say to remove the salmon is they don't have a way of fixing the smelt population or reducing the y. perch so instead of having the salmon stay stunted, they increase the catch rate on salmon to allow  the ones left to grow bigger. i say leave the small salmon in there and stock togue in all the lakes in the chain. they were in there before man was here and they should be brought back. the togue might eat some smelt but the perch are easier to catch. then you would see the fishery bounce back. squa pan had a perch problem. the state stocked splake in there. 15yrs. later the smelts came back and barely any perch left. short of putting musky or smallmouth to control the perch, togue would be the best thing. and don't over do it. put 1000 in each lake for a few years and monitor. reduce the perch predation on the smelt and competion for food w/ the game species, it will all balance itself. and have some very big fat togue to be had!

Offline thedirtydirtyfisherman

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #13 on: Feb 08, 2016, 04:42 PM »
but there is the possibility of the togue overpopulating as well... then the solution becomes the problem.  Then the very big togue eat the 12 inch salmon.

Offline Alex Delarge

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #14 on: Feb 08, 2016, 04:58 PM »
I would like to think that changing laws on Long would help but until there is enforcement of those laws nothing will change. You'll certainly get written up for not having a PFD in your boat or unregistered this or that but wardens just don't search boats, coolers, jet sleds. Or at least they don't search me, I'm not hiding anything anyway. Maybe they "harass" other people more than I. Old local fisherman who take all they can get pass that thinking onto their children etc. Enforcement and education would help big time. It would also be hard to change the laws especially ice fishing now that they have this derby up here. It draws people and helps local economy and depletes that lake (long) as a fishery in particular.
Square is in a different situation. It is self sustaining. Stop the stocking on Long and it will die in 2 years. Square has limited access. I know I'm not going back until we get more snow and in the summer shallow waters can make it hard on bigger boats. The dept has the opportunity to manage Square for trophy salmon and trout IMO but just have not reached that goal yet.
We would all like to have THE solution but ecosystems are fragile and diverse and we have to put our trust in the dept and bios but I feel sometimes that politics plays a big role and our fisheries come in 2nd place to our economy.
It must be something in the water.

Offline GasBlaster

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #15 on: Feb 08, 2016, 05:51 PM »
 the state stocked splake in there. 15yrs. later the smelts came back and barely any perch left. short of putting musky or smallmouth to control the perch, togue would be the best thing.

That's the idea !!! Musky and smallmoith to eat the perch . I like where this is going

Offline gradysjeep

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #16 on: Feb 08, 2016, 05:57 PM »
but there is the possibility of the togue overpopulating as well... then the solution becomes the problem.  Then the very big togue eat the 12 inch salmon.

At least people would travel up to catch big togue.  No one is coming to catch yellow perch.

Offline dreamcatcher310

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #17 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:07 PM »
 

They don't know that in Augusta.

Agreed. I've spoken with two different fish biologists so far this year and both expressed that they were frustrated with POLITICAL decisions being made in Augusta when changing regulations on different bodies of water. They said that in some circumstances decisions were being made with high influence from high tax paying citizens that live on that particular body of water and data was being completely ignored  :blink: :cookoo: :%$#!:

Offline Ohiocatfish

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #18 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:13 PM »
The state should stock some nice fat walleye to control our perch problem ;D

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #19 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:20 PM »
the state stocked splake in there. 15yrs. later the smelts came back and barely any perch left. short of putting musky or smallmouth to control the perch, togue would be the best thing.

That's the idea !!! Musky and smallmoith to eat the perch . I like where this is going
in their native waters these species control the y. perch. I'm not suggesting putting them in there just using them as a comparison of what some togue, which are native to these lakes could do to reduce the perch numbers naturally. read what i actually wrote .

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #20 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:28 PM »
but there is the possibility of the togue overpopulating as well... then the solution becomes the problem.  Then the very big togue eat the 12 inch salmon.
we don't have a problem with togue overpopulating up here like s. maine does. we actually want them up here. only time togue became a problem is when i.f.w put too many at one time 15 yrs. ago. when a stable amount of them are in the fishery they cull the junk fish. as far as the salmon, according to the bios, we need to cull the 12in. salmon. they say theres too many. theres no limit on salmon under 12in. on eagle right now. so the togue would help w/ that too. togue become a problem when you get the numbers like moosehead or sebago. but we have never had a over population up here do to our waters being more sterile and not able to produce the feed for them like southern waters can. i wish we could go out and get a half doz. nice togue in a day up here! used to be like that till' they imposed a 5 togue limit and completely wiped them out on eagle. now you're lucky if you get 1!
!

Offline woodchip

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #21 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:36 PM »
The number one problem is lost of bait fish ,Smelt ,Whitefish. The PH has lowered  it has happened to Sebago--Moosehead-- Chesuncook .People can blame it on everything from fish to fishermen .  but the real problem is Acidity- Acidity- Acidity

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #22 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:39 PM »
i agree its part of it for sure! the deforestation up here in the last 5 years is unprecedented! take a look on google earth! crazy!

Offline 9huskies

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #23 on: Feb 08, 2016, 06:40 PM »
People say how much splake reduced the yellow perch population, then say to stock togue. If splake worked so well in the past why stock togue instead of splake. Togue can reproduce and overpopulate a lake. Splake do not reproduce and become a problem.

Offline GasBlaster

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #24 on: Feb 08, 2016, 07:26 PM »
Make all waters trophy waters .

The Didn't get away club .  I say release any fish that doesn't make the list

You just have to change them over the lengths

Minimum weights are: Splake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 lbs.
Muskellunge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 lbs. Cusk . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 lbs.
Crappie . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 lbs. Northern Pike . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 lbs.
Landlocked salmon . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 lbs. Largemouth Bass . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 lbs.
Brown trout . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 lbs. Smallmouth Bass . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 lbs.
Rainbow trout . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 lbs. Pickerel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4lbs.
Eastern brook trout . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 lbs. Lake trout (togue). . . . . . . . . . . . 15 lbs.
Blueback-Sunapee trout . . . . . . . . 2 lbs. Atlantic sea-run salmon . . . . . . . . 15lbs.
Whitefi sh . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 lbs. White perch . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 1/2 lbs.




Offline Phoenix

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #25 on: Feb 09, 2016, 05:35 AM »
Come on Salty, we need some wisdom here. Seems to me the first thing would be to take more of the politics out of fisheries management decisions. Why bother to hire these people if we're going to ignore their plan?

 I also agree with the poster who said we need more enforcement. I haven't seen a warden in the field for better than 20 years and I fish some very popular fishin' holes. I know, if you don't see them you're probably not doing anything wrong. But jeesh, you've got to get out and wave the flag once in awhile. I know most of them are hard working, dedicated folks but I gotta wonder what they're working at.

P.S. Probably put the kibosh to myself now and I'll see more wardens than I ever wanted to see ;D

Offline cjg

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #26 on: Feb 09, 2016, 05:48 AM »
I know most of them are hard working, dedicated folks but I gotta wonder what they're working at.


They are busy being on TV, looking for dope patches, saving loons and owls and chasing kids on ATVs.

Offline Old Goat

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #27 on: Feb 09, 2016, 05:57 AM »
enforce cleaning off all weeds and organisms before lake hopping. We got a new roommate here in the home lake called ZEBRA MUSSEL

Offline JDK

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Re: Protecting your favorite trophy lake
« Reply #28 on: Feb 09, 2016, 06:00 AM »
Our regional fisheries staff had spent some time in the past looking at the tributaries in the Fish River Chain.  i  remember talking with Frank and Derrick and telling me that there were a lot of obstructions in many of the tribs.  Barn Brook had culvert issues while those on Square and Eagle were blocked with fallen trees.  I think, but am not 100% certain, that they spent some time clearing those obstructions and saw far better smelt spawning runs the following Spring.  We won't even talk about Mud Brook but THANK YOU to those that worked to end dipping there.

We harp on stocking but good food sources might get the bang for the buck we need.

I'm just here to read what all the experts have to say.

Offline GasBlaster

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