Special Restrictions Removed on Payette Lake

[Huge IceHole]

If you've been fishing this lake for any period of time AND CATCHING, you'd know that the "skinny fish" statement is true.  I've caught several and been present when MANY were caught and have yet to catch or even see a single "healthy" fish that appeared to be properly nourished.  While I agree including the lake trout in the regular limit might be a bit over board, I do endorse more harvest than has been taking place over the last 5 years or so.  The fish are extremely skinny and all head with no strength........


I'm certain my opinion won't be popular.  It never is.  Good thing I'm not on here to make friends, huh?

Sorry to post my personal thoughts on reports and conditions page....Any further discussion on this would be more appropriate on main forum.

Over the last three years I have experienced similar results to what you describe, however, I have seen the decline in both the quality and quantity of Lakers in Payette.   There is no doubt a presence of skinny fish, but to say there is an over population of them is concerning to me. If I were seeing/catching more fish than I could buy-in and support steps to find ways to manage the population.  As I talk with other folks I don't hear of an increase in catch rates. Actually the opposite is true, most anglers I talk with tend to confirm my own experiences.

For me the jury is still out on if there is truly a "ton" of fish. I'm in the middle of changing things up a bit on how I fish the lake in a hope that is just a case of me not doing the right things to be successful. 

I tend to leave the biology to the biologist so I am OK with increased harvest for those folks who have found a way to make Lakers taste good.  My hope is that increased communication and education between anglers, Fish and Game, and other local interests can preserve Payette as a quality Mackinaw fishery.

[hooknhunter]

Sorry to post my personal thoughts on reports and conditions page....Any further discussion on this would be more appropriate on main forum.

Over the last three years I have experienced similar results to what you describe, however, I have seen the decline in both the quality and quantity of Lakers in Payette.   There is no doubt a presence of skinny fish, but to say there is an over population of them is concerning to me. If I were seeing/catching more fish than I could buy-in and support steps to find ways to manage the population.  As I talk with other folks I don't hear of an increase in catch rates. Actually the opposite is true, most anglers I talk with tend to confirm my own experiences.

For me the jury is still out on if there is truly a "ton" of fish. I'm in the middle of changing things up a bit on how I fish the lake in a hope that is just a case of me not doing the right things to be successful. 

I tend to leave the biology to the biologist so I am OK with increased harvest for those folks who have found a way to make Lakers taste good.  My hope is that increased communication and education between anglers, Fish and Game, and other local interests can preserve Payette as a quality Mackinaw fishery.

Agreed that this should be in a separate post.  I'm glad you separated.  I'd expect a lot of comments and input on this topic.


If you are quoting me as saying there is an over population, then I think I'm being mis-quoted, because I don't think I said that.  Like you, I'll leave that to the biologists.  I think we both want the same thing, which is a better fishery in Payette Lake. 


As for catch rates declining along with quality, I think you are seeing exactly what F & G is seeing that inspired the change.  It is in line with what I'm seeing also and to me is another indicator that the fishery isn't in a good place.  You can't expect to catch Lakers at the same rate you would a prey species.  My catch rate of Lakers to their prey is probably in the ball park of 5:1 or so.  I'd expect it to be more like 100:1 or even 1000:1 in a healthy fishery.  I don't know what a good number is as I'm not a fish biologist, but logic dictates to me that my predator catch rate is way too high to be healthy as compared to prey species.  Lakers are at the top of the food chain and predator/prey relationships just don't work in the way it seems you think they should.  You can't have more predators than prey.   Usually there will be a much lower number of predators to prey.  I'm sure you get that, but I'm thinking your expected ratios must be a lot higher than mine are.  F & G has done an excellent job at bringing Cascade back.  I'm going to trust them and hope that they do as good of a job at Payette. 


All I was really trying to say is that I think that they are making a move in the right direction and I support it.  You clearly to do not support it based on your first comments and I'm okay with disagreement.  I'd like to see they day when I can go catch a Laker that should weigh in excess of 20 lbs and actually have it weigh in excess of 20 lbs.  The last fish I caught that (based on length), IMO, should have weighed over 15 lbs weighed less than 8.  Something isn't right, so I support a change that seems logical, well thought out, and a move in the right direction.


Respectfully,

[Huge IceHole]

Fish and Game estimated that the Laker population is higher than previously thought. The population studies indicate that there are a "ton" of skinny fish in the lake and increased pressure from anglers will preserve Payette as a trophy fishery.

Personally, I do not agree and wish the special rule was still in tact. At minimum, if the claim of a "ton" of skinny fish is true, I would have liked to see the length restriction preserved. Put the big boys over 30" back lake and if the frying pan/smoker really needs some lake trout keep the small fish.  Just some perspective, a 30"+ Laker can be north of 20 years old.

I am not quoting you directly for overpopulation, but rather trying to expand on my original statement about F&G and the "ton" of skinny fish.

When these changes were proposed several months back I immediately put in a call to the F&G McCall office to see what and why the rules were being altered. The response I received was that gill net surveys this year in Payette show that there is an over population of Lakers and that an increase of angler pressure may help reduce the numbers of fish to a more appropriate carrying capacity.  They surveyed multiple areas of the lake and pulled a good amount of fish out with very few of them having tags from the previous survey. This data suggests, based on their statistical model, that the Lake is over populated. The second part of the survey suggests that the population is indeed asymmetric, it is either big fish or skinny fish.

My experience, that I voiced to F&G, is opposite of this conclusion. From my perspective, the decline of quality and, more importantly, quantity has been more evident in the last three years. The glory days of double digit catches with the duel concern of "will this fish will fit through my Huge Icehole" are not happening anymore. The fish I see and catch tend to be few and far between.  Skinny fish have taken over the normal haunts and the 30" girthers have been in new spots, coinciding with harder to access (Go figure....they move away from pressure).  Thus, the impetus for me to shake up the approach and try new things.

I hope more people will disagree with me and speak up.  I can overcome a lack of fishing skills but not a serious problem with the population.

While I really don't think the harvest rule change will do much (Lakers are not an easy quarry and I think most Laker anglers will only keep the small guys), I'm truly afraid the removal of some of the trophies will drastically reduce the opportunity for a long time. It could take 20+ years for full recovery.

[Huge IceHole]

My fishing trips to Payette have now expired and I plan on giving the regional F&G biologist a call to share my results. My "season" was moderately successful with some good consistent size and only one really skinny fish. 

10 total fish.

2- 36"
5- 30 - 33"
2- 27- 30"
1- 16"

The only "skinny" fish was a 30". Big head and snake body, ribs clearly
defined. The others all healthy for length.

I marked less fish this year than most with two trips producing a total of 1 fish and less than a dozen marks.

If any one else is willing to share with me the quantity of/and size of their I will be more than happy to include that information for my communication with F&G..... Any additional stats to share with the folks that govern these waters should be helpful. It is my understanding that they are only population testing these waters once every other year due to budget constraints. Any population numbers from the public should be an added bonus.

Even if you don't want to share here, please call the biologist and let them know what you experience.

Although I have not seen or read this, I heard there was an article in the local McCall newspaper recently reviewing the "overpopulation" problem of Macinaw on Payette.

Please feel free to PM me.....

[Idajarhead]

Not native, hence no food. Just my two cents.

[rickgehrke]

There are a few great ways to cook lakers that taste delicious.