What Would You Get First?

[SHaRPS]

Flasher....... it changes the way you fish for the better

[uncleshorty]

Well, it seems the "smart money" is on a flasher.  I'd want to go digital and, Wow!, they're dear.

I am, and have been since I found them last year, thinking about the Vexilar SP300 t-box.  It's WAY cheaper than a flasher and can be used on hard or soft water.  The issue is keeping  the xducer plumb in the hole.  But some PVC pipe, bolts, nuts, flats, locks & tie-wraps should fix that.

There are a bunch of guys on a Lake Erie forum that swear by the things for ice fishing. 

I've got a 10" tablet that will provide the display.  Coupled to a power box w/ a L-ion batt, a usb charger and a 12 [V] outlet I should be good for long days.

Now, I just have to figure out if I can swing the trip to PA while the ice is still safe.  If not, I'll wait until next year.  I'm sure the technology will improve and maybe it will get even cheaper. 

But man, I wanna make it up there this Feb with my new gear...   

[Black Jack]

I'll add another vote for a flasher. I have fished hard water for years without electronics, mostly tip-ups, little jigging. Last year I finally got a flasher, a Vexilar flx-28 Ultra Pack at the urging of a fishing buddy who has one. I can honestly say I never had so much fun on the ice before. It was just a world of difference and I never caught so many fish. There are other flashers that are less expensive and will do the job, but my Vex is the only one with which I am familiar.

[Spider1]

uuuu. well. The camera would be nice I guess but you're gonna hate the transducer. I've used boat transducers with finders before and you WILL be looking to upgrade in a year. There are better systems for about the same price. If you are gonna do ice, do ice. At least get a system that will accept an ice transducer.

[uncleshorty]

The T-Box is not a camera.  It is a sonar unit, using the same signal generation and processing technology as a $750 Marcum, but it's $550 cheaper. 

Water is water.  Whether it's at 1 C or 25 C the miniscule difference in density makes no difference to a 200 [kHz] signal.  As far as I know these "ice transducers" have to go into liquid water for maximum performance so what's the real difference between an ice xducer and a liquid xducer, besides marketing? 

I have yet to read a review or talk to anyone who has used the Vexilar SP300 T-Box on ice that hasn't rated it 5 stars.

You know, sometimes we become so enamored with old technology that we close our minds to new ideas.

I did that with cotton long johns.  Wore 'em for years, wet, miserable & cold.  Then I switched to new man-made fabrics and it was a game changer.  I should have done it 20 years ago.

I split time between TX & PA.  I can only ice fish for 4-5 weeks each year, if that much.  How does that $750 flasher with an ice transducer work in July?  The T-Box works year round.  And it is compatible with Navionics maps.

If it is a bomb, then so be it. 

I've analyzed the risks/rewards and looked at functionality, user reviews, utility and price.  Unless something causes a major change in those parameters when I pull the trigger it's gonna be the T-Box.

[ditzlr79]

I will say, in my own opinion that is, that the flasher is used in many different ways then just a cool toy. It allows me to not only locate the fish, but see the different depths they are sitting at, how they react to my jig/lure, and where to find the river channel. As we drill when we go we have a guy follow with the flasher, not only to see what fish are down there, but to see the different depths of the lake. I personally bought one before my electric auger and it made a world of difference. I suffered through using a hand auger but the flasher made it more enjoyable. Once again, this is only my opinion and some may disagree. Hope all these comments and opinions have helped you out in an way! Good luck and tight lines! 

[TeamTwoSticks]

Water is water.  Whether it's at 1 C or 25 C the miniscule difference in density makes no difference to a 200 [kHz] signal.  As far as I know these "ice transducers" have to go into liquid water for maximum performance so what's the real difference between an ice xducer and a liquid xducer, besides marketing?

There are some major difference in the designs for open water versus ice. First one being self leveling. If you really want to to be mobile and hunt for fish this will be the biggest aid. Every machine mention so far (besides the t box) has this. just drop the transducer into the hole and get an accurate reading right away. If you are using a boat ducer you have to first make sure that it is level before you can use it. If it isn't it will show false readings. I see that you plan to build an contraption to hold the ducer, which will work with limited success. I know that with my ice ducer I am fishing more and adjusting less. I have two lowrance x67c that I at first just used the open water ducer. Fish get tangled, bolts loosen, ice isn't level in the new spot, and what ever you build will take up more room as well. I fished this way for two years and the best thing I found was the suction cup fits snug to the bottom of a one pound propane tank and the ducer sat just below the water.  I switched both of these units to the ice ducer and it is by far the optimal way to go. I bought a fl-18 from a friend at the beginning of last season and it was an eye opener. I can see more detail with this unit than before. And I think that it is because of the cone angle. The open water transducer is design to spread out and scan for fish, while the ice ducer is made to show a small yet detailed window below you. That 20 degree cone is rather large, and I do not think that you will ever use the 60 while ice fishing. You definitely will not fish in weeds with the 60 degree cone. I bought the tri ducer for my 18 and now I am able to narrow my cone so I am no longer seeing the weeds around my lure.


Another thing to think about is how are you going to mount the tablet? Do you plan to hold onto it or maybe prop it up on something? Make sure you plan on a worse case scenario happening. It would suck to be on the ice and have your tablet slip into the water. A flasher setup does all of this for you and condenses everything into one package.

It sounds like you are set on getting the T box but I just wanted to offer some insight into some things that you may or may not have pondered.

[uncleshorty]

I appreciate your insight but I'm not swayed by your statements. 

"just drop the transducer into the hole and get an accurate reading right away."  Why couldn't I do this with the t-box xducer?  I might have to make a simple bracket but I'm a pretty good fabricator.  Otherwise, line levels epoxied to the x, y & z axes along with wing nuts at the fulcrums will solve the leveling issue. 

The sp-300 t box has two xduxer modes 20 & 40, not 20 & 60.  From Vexilar's website:  Vexilar offers four Ice-Ducer transducer options and basically their performance is linked to depth. The wide angle 19 degree works best down to 30 feet...  The deepest water I fish is less than 30 ft, so xducer cone is a non-issue. But keep in mind vexilar is quoting cone RADIUS, not diameter.  The formula to use to find the diameter would be 2 x tan (xducer angle) x depth.  So at 50 ft, cone diameter w/ the vex 19 deg flasher is 34.4 ft, as opposed to the 20 deg t box at 36.4.  I'm willing to take that risk for several hundred dollars.

The tablet I'll use is connected via wifi, so it is actually more portable than a big old heavy box with a bunch of wires to foul, trip over, freeze to the ice and get damaged.   The tablet will go in the front of my bibs when I'm not viewing it, so, another non-issue.

What I would like to know is this:  How does your flasher do locating fish in July?  None of the flasher advocates have addressed this.  Why is that?  It's a legitimate question.

As I've said previously, I can only ice fish for a max of 5 weeks each year.  For the other 47 I'm fishing in liquid water, where the t-box offers outstanding performance.  In addition, talking with guys who have USED the t box on ice I have never received a bad report.

I'm glad your set up works for you.  I guess that's why they make Yuengling and Straub...

[TeamTwoSticks]

Do you have a water proof case for the tablet? Might want to get a otter box or similar case, things get wet while ice fishing. How do you plan to jig and watch the tablet at the same time? Rod in one hand and tablet in the other? Have you got a shelter yet? If so you could mount a clamp to a pole to hold the tablet.

Surface conditions of the ice vary greatly, even from one side of the hole to the other. You will have to adjust the pitch yaw and roll of the transducer to the water. Again I have done this same thing with my first sonar. It is doable but it is not efficient, if it moves at all you will have to check to make sure that it is level again.

The tri beam ducer is 8 12 and 20 degrees so again it will make a difference. If you are fishing with any sort of weeds on the bottom it will show as a line on your display of different heights. In theory you can drop the sensitivity to remove clutter but you won't be able to as effectively as a transducer with a narrow beam. With the 8 degree I can cut those out and focus on my lure.

The 19 is not necessarily the best option for under 30 ft. The best condition to use the 19 is under 30 ft. It will be more of an issue than you realize when fishing in and or around weeds. This picture shows what I am talking about. The blue line is the "stronger signal". 20.8 feet deep with weeds that reach about 10-12 feet off of the bottom. I drew a line showing my jig and a possible fish. If one weed is near your hole it will show similar to this. This unit has a 20 degree transducer. The weeds are about 2-3 feet away from my hole and I am fishing over sand.



Your math is off as well. I cannot find anywhere were vexilar refers to the cone radius. In fact they have a graph that is half of your values. http://www.vexilar.com/blog/2014/08/28/choosing-a-transducer-beam-angle

I use mine all year long. The lowrance I switch to the open water and take off in an inflatable to fish small ponds and lakes. I also use my my vexilar when I jig deep in the summer and for smallies on St Claire. Its easy to find drop offs, hard versus soft bottom, and other structures as well.

Would you provide the links for the Lake Erie discussions that you have mentioned? Lake Erie is my favorite place to ice fish. For the last couple of years I have been trying to read as much as I can about ice fishing on it. You can send me the link in a PM if you like.

[TeamTwoSticks]

I just found this deal. It comes with the open water transducer for your boat and the ice ducer. $50 rebate (visa gift card) makes it the same price as the t box. It doesn't have the narrow cone as I like, but it will save you time and money with the weighted ice ducer.

 http://www.cabelas.com/product/fishing/ice-fishing/ice-fishing-electronics%7C/pc/104793480/c/104735880/sc/110951280/lowrance-reg-elite-3x-portable-sonar/1884296.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fice-fishing-electronics%2F_%2FN-1105957%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_110951280

[uncleshorty]

Two Sticks - Thanks for the heads up.  Your time & knowledge I appreciated.

Don't eat too much bird, those bibs gotta fit!!

[52isntbigenough]

If you're going to stick with the electronics, I'd see if I could find a cheap mapping GPS along with the Flasher. Unless you spend most of your time on a body of water you know.

[MonstaCrappie]

"so it is actually more portable than a big old heavy box with a bunch of wires to foul, trip over, freeze to the ice and get damaged."

The only wires that this could be would be the transducer wire. Which would be just as exposed with the T box. My vexilar only has a 6 ft cable, so it is actually a lot less wire that could "foul, trip over, freeze to the ice and get damaged" than the T box. The battery is held in the ultra pack it's self without any wires exposed.

I use mine in the summer as well. If you know how to read one it will help you find bottom transitions. You can be point those spots with an ice ducer. I have the thru hull duper and it works great.

That lowrance would be a good entry sonar especially having both tranducers. It really just depends on how you fish or what you fish for. Does that sonar have the dial as well? I never used it on sonars but I love it on the flasher.

One last thought, any idea on lag for the T box? I wonder if this is similar to how the marcum rt9 might work. How close to real time are they?

[gillicer]

anh flash vex for me

[IM-POUNDING- R -U]

Flasher then a shanty

[captain54]

ICE

[nocod]

Shelter and heat would and are the first things I bought, then it gets silly.