Author Topic: LX6 or Helix 5 (Read 7533 times)

WolfPack1 · « **on:** Oct 02, 2015, 07:24 PM »

I currently have an lx6, but do you guys think there would be a lot of drawbacks going to the Helix 5 from Humminbird? I love the idea of GPS, but wonder if I would lose a lot of sensitivity and features that are very nice on the lx6. What you guys think, worth the switch?

matzilla · « **Reply #1 on:** Oct 02, 2015, 09:46 PM »

which features are you afraid to lose? The Helix series is well equipped for hardwater and the GPS is very, very nice - mapping is excellent as well. I'm not saying the Marcum is junk but the Helix offers a bit more.

river rat78 · « **Reply #2 on:** Oct 02, 2015, 10:40 PM »

If you are wanting GPS why not just keep your lx6 and buy a handheld GPS. I have a Lowrance Elite 5 ice unit that has GPS on it and I would much rather use a small handheld GPS. Having the GPS on the unit is great for marking spots that have produced but it's quite big when using to get to a certain spot.

RapShack · « **Reply #3 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 12:16 AM »

No way would I go from an LX6 to a Helix, they are not even in the same ballpark. As mentioned get a handheld GPS. You can't really walk around holding your finder out in front of you trying to find your spot, well you can but your arms will get really tired. It's nice to just be able to reach into a pocket and grab your GPS for a quick course correction or to see how close you're getting without having to break stride.

hardwater diehard · « **Reply #4 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 07:14 AM »

Yep think a dedicated hand held is the way to go ....you can use on the way out to your spots with ease and fits in a pocket on around your neck on a lanyard . My Garmin Etrex 20 has a waypoint averaging function ...which takes several GPS reading(I think 10) and then averages the results for a better lock on your position ..not sure the chart plotters do that . Also if your visiting other peoples holes/camps your hand held can tag along ....can mark your neighboring anglers honey hole/structure ...plus if your a hunter/hiker is a multi tasker.

WolfPack1 · « **Reply #5 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 05:53 PM »

I think that that may be a better way to go. I was thinking that the lx6 is a dedicated ice unit and that it should be better. Can I get depth maps on a handheld GPS? The only thing I'm afraid of is having to spend a ton on a GPS and have a lot of money in them both. Do some accept lake chips as in the lakemaster?

hardwater diehard · « **Reply #6 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 06:29 PM »

YES they have a map SD card

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/maps/on-the-water-maps/lakevu/u-s-lakevu-hd-ultra/prod148922.html

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/maps/on-the-water-maps/lakevu/u-s-lakevu-hd/prod125128.html

and you can make custom maps too

https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={2183bd60-bf34-11de-c454-000000000000}

they also have Garmin Base camp useful to plot on your computer

http://www8.garmin.com/learningcenter/training/basecamp/

hardwater diehard · « **Reply #7 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 06:36 PM »

If you have a Smart phone you can download the Navionics app

https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=en#@6&key=kap%7BFjl%7BfM

http://www.navionics.com/en/mobile-pc-app-1

WolfPack1 · « **Reply #8 on:** Oct 03, 2015, 11:01 PM »

Any of you guys have specific models that you use that are fairly accurate with the depth maps? Also, are there any good ones at under or around $200?

RapShack · « **Reply #9 on:** Oct 04, 2015, 03:02 AM »

If you have a smartphone and are looking for something on the cheap try the Navionics App. I think it's like $15 bucks or so, so no big investment and a lot of guys seem to like it. They have a free to use version of it on their webpage so you can check it out with your computer and see if the lakes you fish have good coverage. So far pretty much everywhere I've looked in WI has been good other than the Mississippi. Other than that I'm not much help, I personally run a Magellan I got used off of Amazon for like 50 bucks, it doesn't have pre made maps but I can make my own and load them and it gets me to my waypoints which is good enough for me.

WolfPack1 · « **Reply #10 on:** Oct 04, 2015, 07:47 PM »

The only problem I can see with the navionics app is that it uses data. Can I put it so it does not?

matzilla · « **Reply #11 on:** Oct 04, 2015, 09:37 PM »

You can download an area for offline use.

If you have a map you can use this app to overly with gps - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.custommapsapp.android&hl=en I use it for a few spots I fish.

The Helix is nice because all of my open water brush piles and heavy weed lines are marked - I fish the same spots through the ice. I can get close w/o the GPS then pinpoint within 5' or less with the Helix. Mine is mounted to the seat on my Recon so no carrying the unit. Lakemaster is really nice to have.

Another option is to get a GPS enabled tablet and use any of the ios/android mapping apps

tjacob · « **Reply #12 on:** Oct 05, 2015, 08:17 PM »

I have both and no way would I swap the LX 6 for the Helix 5. Don't take that wrong as they are both great units, but for ice I'll take the LX 6 and for open water the Helix. Tried the LX 6 in open water and was not impressed. Have not tried the Helix in winter yet, but love it for open water. My two.

jethro · « **Reply #13 on:** Oct 08, 2015, 10:12 AM »

I'm goign to try my Helix for ice this year. I am looking forward to it but I can tell you that my ICE55 will be coming with me for the first few trips!

Flint · « **Reply #14 on:** Oct 09, 2015, 06:55 PM »

The garman 62s is pretty good. Three axis mag compass is nice.

3300 · « **Reply #15 on:** Oct 11, 2015, 08:49 AM »

look into the marcum RT-9! due out around turkey day. its an android based tablet and then some!!
best of the best. i might grab one and not use my lx-7.

jethro · « **Reply #16 on:** Oct 12, 2015, 09:16 AM »

Quote from: 3300 on Oct 11, 2015, 08:49 AM

look into the marcum RT-9! due out around turkey day. its an android based tablet and then some!!
best of the best. i might grab one and not use my lx-7.

$1600?

Too rich for my blood!

river rat78 · « **Reply #17 on:** Oct 12, 2015, 11:34 AM »

Quote from: doctorgee on Oct 12, 2015, 09:16 AM

$1600? Too rich for my blood!

That's what I'm saying. For that price I can get myself a shanty, power auger, and a flasher/fish finder.

sandhillguy · « **Reply #18 on:** Oct 16, 2015, 12:49 AM »

So i was in cabelas today and had been looking at the helix 5 ice, went over to the sonar unit stand and messed around with the helix 5 displays, i love the way they look, operate just as any bird but the flasher dial mode is extremely small on them, bad enough that at the distance i would be sitting away from it i would have problems seeing, i think i need glasses anyway. So instead i will be converting the 688ci hd from my boat to a flasher for the gps and map capablities.

3300 · « **Reply #19 on:** Oct 16, 2015, 10:29 AM »

heres a link with the most info on it
http://www.profishingsupply.com/flashers/marcumrt9tablet.htm

can buy just the 9" tablet or the pack. i called them and they said they can special order them and would be in your hands with-in 2 to 5 business days. they are out of manhatan new york.
http://marcum.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/56684-122951/RT-Series.html
says in stock

i tired calling marcum to see if they are finished yet, but no answer, probably on lunch break.

matzilla · « **Reply #20 on:** Oct 16, 2015, 09:13 PM »

Quote from: sandhillguy on Oct 16, 2015, 12:49 AM

So i was in cabelas today and had been looking at the helix 5 ice, went over to the sonar unit stand and messed around with the helix 5 displays, i love the way they look, operate just as any bird but the flasher dial mode is extremely small on them, bad enough that at the distance i would be sitting away from it i would have problems seeing, i think i need glasses anyway. So instead i will be converting the 688ci hd from my boat to a flasher for the gps and map capablities.

lol I have terrible eyes too! The bondend super bright screen of the Helix 7 in di/gps with a 2d skimmer converted for ice would be incredible for a hole hopping unit in a portable case

Bumski · « **Reply #21 on:** Oct 18, 2015, 08:36 AM »

Only thing that would turn me off is the Target Separation.....2.5 inches vs .75 in
for the LX6.....Game changer for me.....

sandhillguy · « **Reply #22 on:** Oct 18, 2015, 12:21 PM »

Quote from: matzilla on Oct 16, 2015, 09:13 PM

lol I have terrible eyes too! The bondend super bright screen of the Helix 7 in di/gps with a 2d skimmer converted for ice would be incredible for a hole hopping unit in a portable case

Absolutely, next year that will be my very first purchase, im thinkin gettin the helix 7 in an ice pack similar to the lx series marcums would be killer, hopefully they package them like that, ill be the first to purchase one. Does the helix 7 have the traditional flasher like the 5s? Something i hadnt looked into yet.

matzilla · « **Reply #23 on:** Oct 18, 2015, 09:14 PM »

Quote from: Bumski on Oct 18, 2015, 08:36 AM

Only thing that would turn me off is the Target Separation.....2.5 inches vs .75 in
for the LX6.....Game changer for me.....

Its a non issue....what you gain in target separation you lose in resolution so its a wash. 640x480 can't display that target separation at depth anyhow.

Keep in mind target separation is a product of frequency

Bumski · « **Reply #24 on:** Oct 25, 2015, 08:00 AM »

Quote from: matzilla on Oct 18, 2015, 09:14 PM

Its a non issue....what you gain in target separation you lose in resolution so its a wash. 640x480 can't display that target separation at depth anyhow.

Keep in mind target separation is a product of frequency

I beg to differ sir......When I was on Green Bay for Whitefish last winter I could tell if 2 separate fish were looking at my lure in 62ft of water......
Just saying.....

3300 · « **Reply #25 on:** Oct 26, 2015, 09:17 AM »

i forgot to mention about customer service. it can play a super important experince in your short ice season times.
humminbird out of warranty and in warranty service is the PITTS! is also very expensive. the ice55 is 170$ plus shipping to have it repaired no matter whats wrong. they promise you it will be fixed. i sent mine in 2 times because they didn't fix 2 of the 3 things wrong with it and one is a defect they can not fix. the other they wouldn't fix (power knob is intermittent functioning) because their bench tech couldn't duplicate the problem i have on ice in his warm room. so they sent it back broken and no one else has the part for me to be able to fix it on my own an i know how to do that.

my lx7 had a quick connect fall off and i sent it in for them to reattach. was back in 7 days. i cut a transducer wire and called it in, they asked if i had cut it and i admitted i must have and they sent a free replacement. thats over 100$ item and no shipping/tax either.

they are night and day difference in customer service and i know it for a fact. the digital marcums are 120$ last i knew for out of warranty repairs.

the helix might be all of that, i don't know much about it because i boycotted humminbird after that last bout with their CS.

i do know who gets any money i throw at sonars from here on out. i do know all about the lx6 and the marcum support and thats who i would choose and why in a heart beat.

matzilla · « **Reply #26 on:** Oct 26, 2015, 09:23 PM »

Quote from: Bumski on Oct 25, 2015, 08:00 AM

I beg to differ sir......When I was on Green Bay for Whitefish last winter I could tell if 2 separate fish were looking at my lure in 62ft of water......
Just saying.....

---------------------
Target separation, as I understand it, depends on screen resolution and the ability of the transmitter and receiver to generate a short pulse and then read it accurately. As far as the screen is concerned, you divide the selected depth range by the screen's vertical pixel count and you get the amount of linear depth represented by each pixel. Let's take a common fishing depth setting of 0-60 feet and compare the abilities of a 320 pixel unit to a 240 pixel unit. I find it easier to work with inches than tenths of feet so I multiply the 60 feet by 12 and start with 720 inches. Divide that by 320 and you find out that each pixel represents 2-1/4 inches. Divide it by 240 and each pixels represents 3 inches. Now, in order to separately display two targets you have to put at least one blank pixel between them. So, at this depth range setting the absolute minimum separation that these two screens can show is 2-1/4 inches and 3 inches respectively. A unit may be capable of separately displaying a fish 1/2 inch off the bottom but not at this depth range setting. In order to see that kind of separation you have to use 4X zoom. That's why lots of pro's run a split screen with a top-to-bottom view on one side and a 4X zoom on the other.

As for the electronics, the terms pulse length and pulse width are often used interchangeably but I find it easier to think of pulse length as a measurement of time and pulse width as the physical measurement of pulse thickness. I was told by an engineer that a 30 microsecond pulse length (30 millionths of a second) generates about a one-inch pulse. By that I mean that when the signal from the transmitter hits the transducer it starts sending the sound pulse, it continues to hit the transducer for 30 microseconds and the pulse continues to be emitted, then the signal ends and the pulse stops growing. Think of this particular sound pulse as a disk about an inch thick that starts out the diameter of the transducer and expands horizontally (but not in vertical thickness) as it heads toward the bottom. It expands horizontally at the rate known as the transducer's cone angle. When the leading edge of the pulse contacts a target it starts bouncing sound back to the transducer and continues to do so until the entire one-inch pulse passes the target and continues toward the bottom. A one inch pulse can't show two objects 1/2 inch apart. Since the pulse is 1 inch thick its leading edge reaches the second target before its trailing edge clears the first target, so the receiver reads the two targets as a single echo.

A 30 microsecond pulse is extremely short and most units generate longer (and correspondingly thicker) pulses most of the time. Still, the same principle applies as described above. Any time you engage filters one of the things that a unit usually does is change the pulse length. Most filtering increases the pulse length and therefore decreases the unit's potential for target separation. When a manufacturer says a unit can separate targets X inches apart they are usually talking about the best the unit can do under ideal conditions with all filtering off. Some may be doing some neat stuff with their software to improve separation but these are the mechanics of it as I understand them.
-------------

http://www.webmastersinternational.com/boards/electronics/message.html?message_id=256105

That's a great explanation of the relationship between target separation and resolution. Start discussing chirp vs conventional in terms of separation and its a whole different ball of wax

3300 · « **Reply #27 on:** Oct 26, 2015, 09:53 PM »

matzilla
good read, thanks!

Bumski · « **Reply #28 on:** Oct 27, 2015, 08:37 AM »

Yes....A very interesting read,but a couple of points...
..this is a 12 year old post....A long time in the world of electronics...
It is talking about open water units with low pixel specs,typical of open water units in 2003...my Marcum is 640X480,for a total of 307200 pixels...a little different than even the 320 talked about in this piece...
I was using the 8 degree cone,graph-vertical screens with zoom and sens turned up to just short of showing junk returns....there was also a camera down which confirmed what my flasher was showing...
I have no issues with what unit other users choose...it's a matter of choice,and being that I fish mostly bottom hugging fish (walleyes and perch) I prefer a dedicated ice sonar that will show these fish...I leave the open water units for my boat....
That is why I said in my original post "Game changer for me"

RapShack · « **Reply #29 on:** Oct 27, 2015, 02:12 PM »

Yea, that writeup is only focusing on the hardware portion and the software that drives it is just as important.

Bumski if you are ever fishing in the LaX area shoot me a PM, I would love to see one of them in action before I sell my middle testicle to afford one.

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Author Topic: LX6 or Helix 5 (Read 7533 times)