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Author Topic: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!  (Read 4127 times)

Offline Loves To Fish

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Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« on: Apr 05, 2015, 04:02 PM »
Wasn't very long ago that people, on several outdoor /fishing internet sites, were fed up, myself included, with people roping off / buoying sections of public waters for their own personal use (swimming areas ). Well fortunately, they finally passed legislation to stop the roping off of any public waters except for state parks, kids camps, campgrounds, and municipalities.
Apparently, there is a need to take this one step further. Example: Frye Island on Sebago Lake is currently roping off / buoying thousands and thousands of feet of shoreline for their swimming area. That's practically, one side of that whole island. To me that is way too much area to be closed off to the rest of the outdoor public.
Fortunately, there soon will be a public hearing on a new bill ( LD 1225 ) which will set limits for state parks, kids camps, campgrounds, and municipalities from roping off / buoying public waters. It will only allow half of the property frontage or 200 feet, whichever is greater to be roped / buoyed off.
I think this is a very reasonable solution to any state parks, kids camps, campgrounds, and municipalities roping off thousands and thousands of feet of shoreline from public use.
Hope people will support this legislation when it comes to a public hearing.
What do you folks think?   

Offline gradysjeep

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #1 on: Apr 05, 2015, 05:02 PM »
Seems reasonable to me the waters belong to everyone.

Offline 9huskies

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #2 on: Apr 05, 2015, 08:08 PM »
Half of the frontage can be too much. Your description of Frye island is a good example. I don't know the area but if they are roping off thousands of feet half of that is still a lot. 200 feet or half the frontage, whichever is less sounds better. A simple 200 feet limit would be even better because the enforcing agency wouldn't have to know where property lines are. Anyone can easily measure 200 feet and report violations. When is the public hearing scheduled and how can someone comment without attending a hearing?

Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #3 on: Apr 05, 2015, 08:39 PM »
Just as soon as they post the public hearing date, people can e-mail written comments either "for" the bill or "against". I'll be posting the e-mail address and public hearing date when they put it on the legislative docket.

Offline Chris338378

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #4 on: Apr 05, 2015, 08:47 PM »
I can understand people roping off swimming areas during the soft water to keep people safe but doing it in the winter makes no sense to me.  I'm not from Maine but if I was I'd ask or suggest that the roping off be banned during the ice season. 

Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #5 on: Apr 05, 2015, 10:23 PM »
We are only talking " open water " only. Nobody ropes / buoyes off water during ice fishing season here in Maine. We're talking roping off too much public water during open water season.

Offline Downeaster

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #6 on: Apr 06, 2015, 07:11 AM »
People are trying to exclude fishermen from fishing in these areas, and others out, keeping the area
solely for themselves.  All waters over 10 acres belong to us all.  We stop it now or lose if forever.

Offline fishingsurveyor

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #7 on: Apr 06, 2015, 07:32 AM »
This is something that we all should pay attention to. It is very similar to the Goose Rocks Beach case that is still currently being argued in the system. If special interest groups and deep pockets get behind this who knows what will be the outcome. Thanks Dennis for bringing this up.

Offline hardwatergrampa

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #8 on: Apr 06, 2015, 09:27 AM »
We are only talking " open water " only. Nobody ropes / buoyes off water during ice fishing season here in Maine. We're talking roping off too much public water during open water season.
                        I have seen it done for ice skating
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Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #9 on: Apr 06, 2015, 10:24 AM »
                        I have seen it done for ice skating


Yeah, but mostly people just build ice rinks and let the borders of snow be their roping off points. That's not the same issue as roping off large areas of water ( thousands of feet at a time ) for the whole open water season.

Offline Slammin_Brookies!!

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #10 on: Apr 06, 2015, 10:45 AM »
What's the laws on roping off a corse for water skiing. Fished 2 ponds last year that had giant skiing courses roped off for personal use. Is that allowed?
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Offline BrownTroutBoy

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #11 on: Apr 06, 2015, 11:07 AM »
What's the laws on roping off a corse for water skiing. Fished 2 ponds last year that had giant skiing courses roped off for personal use. Is that allowed?
Not sure, but I hear you its a b***h to troll around!

Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #12 on: Apr 06, 2015, 11:43 AM »
What's the laws on roping off a corse for water skiing. Fished 2 ponds last year that had giant skiing courses roped off for personal use. Is that allowed?



Yeah, that's another problem that is currently legal to do. Those courses are left unattended for hours, sometimes days at a time with no one using them. Until people get fed up enough to go see a legislator to propose new legislation to help address the problem, nothing will change.
But that is a problem for another day. We are talking about municipalities who are roping off thousands of feet of water frontage for swimmers only. That's too much public water being taken away from many other people who might like to use that same water. Hopefully, some compromise will come out of this new legislation.

Offline 9huskies

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #13 on: Apr 06, 2015, 02:06 PM »
It's already illegal to operate a boat faster than headway speed within 200 feet of shore. More laws regulating boat speed are not needed. Get a description and numbers if possible and call IFW. If you are a licensed guide you are required to report any IFW violations as a condition of your license. That includes reckless operation of boats, snowmobiles and ATVs. It's also illegal to harass someone who is legally fishing, hunting or trapping. Going fast next to a fising boat can be harassment.

Offline GRGS

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #14 on: Apr 06, 2015, 03:25 PM »
I have more of a concern with the ropes left in the water for camp water lines and buoys then with a large roped off area. At least you can see the swimming buoys compared to some ropes that are only a couple of feet long.

Offline JDK

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #15 on: Apr 06, 2015, 03:43 PM »
Is the swimming area on  Frye Island roped off by one landowner or multiple?

I'm just here to read what all the experts have to say.

Offline MG39

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #16 on: Apr 06, 2015, 04:07 PM »
It's already illegal to operate a boat faster than headway speed within 200 feet of shore. More laws regulating boat speed are not needed. Get a description and numbers if possible and call IFW. If you are a licensed guide you are required to report any IFW violations as a condition of your license. That includes reckless operation of boats, snowmobiles and ATVs. It's also illegal to harass someone who is legally fishing, hunting or trapping. Going fast next to a fishing boat can be harassment.

I was surprised to find out that water skiers & fishing don't apply to the "headway Speed". As CJG said, it's aggravating to have someone speed by you making a wake when you trolling near shore.
The floating line from shore owners is a dangerous situation on a rough day with a smaller boat. If your motor gets tangled in that rope, the wind brings your stern around and you're in big trouble taking on water, especially early in the season.
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Offline 9huskies

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #17 on: Apr 06, 2015, 04:12 PM »
The way I understand the headway speed law and waterskiing is it doesn't apply when a waterskier is taking off from a dock or shore and when dropping off a skier. At all other times they are supposed to be 200 feet from shore. The law about interfering with legal fishing still applies to water skiers at all times.

Offline MG39

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #18 on: Apr 06, 2015, 04:23 PM »
The way I understand the headway speed law and waterskiing is it doesn't apply when a waterskier is taking off from a dock or shore and when dropping off a skier. At all other times they are supposed to be 200 feet from shore. The law about interfering with legal fishing still applies to water skiers at all times.

That is correct. It's the wake when they come & go that's a problem.
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Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #19 on: Apr 06, 2015, 04:31 PM »
Is the swimming area on  Frye Island roped off by one landowner or multiple?



This is not private citizens roping off this huge section of water Jay. That would be illegal with the current law. Frye Island is a town in itself. As a municipality, they can legally rope off areas for swim zones. The problem is that they are abusing the law by roping off literally thousands of feet of shoreline. I'm sure some kind of compromise can be resolved with this new legislation.

Offline Sebago Bait

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #20 on: Apr 06, 2015, 05:03 PM »
Aircraft have a right away over boats, but the crazy fools will race you (they lose) or the worst was when I was in the Sebago Basin taxing down to the south, to take off to the north and I turned to my right and there was a boat full of people right up my butt. I opened the door and said some not so nice things, including that I have a 6ft prop spinning around. Some people just don't think.  There is a water ski course on Highland Lake in Falmouth, but it is just some buoys and it has been there a long time. They are nice people. Most people are just curious about the aircraft and have questions or want a picture. I try and be a good neighbor and be respectful. I don't take off a 6 am or buzz peoples homes. People have been great over the last 5 years that I have been there.

I know what you mean about Frye Island roping off water in front of every beach, much of which goes unused. There was a good article about Frye Island and this new potential law (legislation) about a month ago in the paper. Maybe someone could post the article as it was in the Portland Press Herald.
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Offline Sebago Bait

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #21 on: Apr 06, 2015, 05:54 PM »
Here you are:  Windham Paper, not Press Herald
    Story
    Comments

Posted: Friday, March 6, 2015 1:47 pm

By Ezra Silk [email protected] | 0 comments

The bill’s goal is to increase access to beaches on Frye Island, which have been increasingly roped off to boaters.

State Rep. Michael Shaw, D-Standish, has proposed legislation to restrict the size of state-authorized swim areas across Maine – a proposal that comes in response to the extensive use of roped-off swim areas on Frye Island, Shaw said.

In late January, Shaw submitted LD 126, “An Act to Restrict Swim Areas,” which limits the size of roped-off swim areas regulated by the Bureau of Parks and Lands. Only governmental entities and commercial campgrounds can obtain permits for such swim areas, which ban boaters from entering roped-off shoreline areas, mainly sandy beaches. The bill would limit the size of the swim areas to either half the length of the permitted property’s shore frontage, or 200 feet if the property includes less than 400 feet of shore frontage.

Although the Maine House indefinitely postponed the bill on Feb. 12 in order to allow Shaw to make minor adjustments to the language, he plans to reintroduce the key provisions of LD 126 this legislative session in a forthcoming bill, “An Act to Limit the Use of Ropes and Buoys in Great Ponds.” Great ponds are lakes that are 10 acres or larger.

Shaw said he proposed the bill in response to Frye Island’s prolific use of swim areas in recent years. According to George Powell, the director of boating facilities division for the Department of Agriculture, Conservation & Forestry, Frye Island possesses 12 of the 21 state-issued swim area permits on Sebago Lake. Sebago Lake State Park holds five of the permits, he said.

In Shaw’s view, many of Frye Island’s swim areas are not being used to protect swimmers.

“Currently, Frye Island has roped off thousands of feet of water, calling them swim areas, but in reality it’s just blocking the citizens of the state of Maine from accessing the water for things like kayaking, canoeing and fishing,” Shaw said. “The people of the state of Maine own the water on all great ponds. The water is owned by the people.”

“I think they just had this idea that they wanted to block everybody from the water,” Shaw added. “All of a sudden they just applied for the permits and put them out. I think they just started putting them out in the last couple years. I started getting complaints from constituents.”

In particular, Shaw said Frye Island’s decision to rope off a 1,000-by-200-foot swim area in front of Long Beach was egregious.

“Clearly they’re just trying to block the citizens of the state of Maine from accessing the water in that area,” Shaw said.

According to Frye Island Town Manager Gary Donohue, the town extended the length of the Long Beach swim area permit in the summer of 2014 as a “housekeeping measure” meant to keep boaters from using the beach as a waste disposal area.

“People were defecating on the beach,” Donohue said. “They were leaving dog poop on the beach. It was becoming unsanitary for the Frye Island residents. People were leaving litter, dirty diapers. It was pretty bad. We were having to send Department of Public Works employees to go down and clean up the mess.”

According to Donohue, the extended swim area quickly resolved the issue.

“As soon as we did the rope further out, all the problems down there went away,” he said. “It was a quick fix for a problem that I don’t think the town of Frye Island or anybody should want to put up with.”

Donohue, who declined to comment on Shaw’s proposed legislation, said that boaters are free to use the town of Frye Island’s public restroom.

“We don’t have the resources to have somebody patrolling the beach from 7 a.m.-7 p.m. seven days a week,” he said.

Roger Wheeler, a director with Friends of Sebago Lake, suggested that Shaw was shilling for the boating community, which has lost access to recreational spots along the shoreline as the artificially heightened lake level has eroded beaches in recent years, he said.

“It appears that boating interests want more beaches to be able to boat to, that’s my best guess,” he said. “It’s a bad pill in my opinion.”

Wheeler said Shaw’s bill could have an impact on the popular Songo Beach in Sebago Lake State Park.

“All the people of Lewiston that come to Songo Beach are being thrown under the bus,” he said. “They don’t even know about this. If Mike Shaw gets his way, half that swim area will be reduced.”

According to Powell, the bill, if passed, would have modest impacts on Songo Beach, if any.

“We believe we have enough frontage as defined in LD 260 to comply with the length restrictions,” he said. “At most we may have to shorten one or two areas.”

The State Parks system holds 12 of the 140 swim area permits that have been issued across Maine, Powell said. According to Powell, the Department of Agriculture, Conservation & Forestry, which includes the State Parks system, is not opposed to the language in Shaw’s bill.

“There’s going to be some more work for us but not enough work to have us object to it,” he said.

Shaw said he had not consulted with any local boating associations or other interests before writing the bill. The impetus from the bill came from constituent outcry, he said.

“They thought the 1,000-foot-long swim area was probably a bit too much,” he said. “We want to have access to the water. I think people want to go fishing and kayaking and quite frankly I had people call me from Frye Island that complained about the swim area because they like to kayak or canoe in that area.”

“In my opinion it’s very reasonable,” Shaw said. “The reason to have a swim area is to provide a safe area for children to go swimming. That’s it. It’s not to block people from boating or fishing. If you don’t want boats landing on your property put out a no-trespassing sign.”
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Offline Loves To Fish

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #22 on: Apr 06, 2015, 06:07 PM »
Thank you Sebago Bait. That article has a lot more information on this subject. Roping off excessively just to stop boaters from going to shore is the wrong way to fix a problem of littering / making messes on shore.

Offline Mother Fisher

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Re: Roping Off Swim Areas!!!
« Reply #23 on: Jun 25, 2015, 07:38 AM »
I am so happy to read the positive posts here in response to LD 1225, which btw, just passed and will become law within the next few months!!  I was the person who brought this issue to the attention of Rep Shaw and I am so thankful for his support in creating this bill, along with the support of the 117 House Representatives and 33 Senators who voted for it.  With those numbers, this clearly is a law that is needed across the state, not just Frye Island.     

 



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