UPDATE (2) OFFICIAL FINDINGS- OFFICIAL COMPLAINT FILED w/ BPD.....CASE CLOSED!!!!

[taxi1]

DerekinHawaii,

Don't take this the wrong way but as a professional writer I would have tried to condense it a little. Most people including law enforement will only read so far. You can always condense your writing and still get your point across.

It is however, well wrtten and not the stupid sh** they probably see on a regular basis.

O.K. Let me have it. 

I can almost guess the response you will probably get if you do get one back: "We have to consider the safety of the general public. If we let you on the ice even though we have confidence you know what you're doing, what's to suggest others that aren't competent to know what is or is not safe won't follow suit? We can't justify the time and resources determining who can and can't get on the ice, or whether the ice is safe on moving water that is subject to rapid changing conditions."

All it takes is one moron falling through and if the city gives the blessing to ice fish they are in hotwater.

[MrE1979]

DerekinHawaii,

Don't take this the wrong way but as a professional writer I would have tried to condense it a little. Most people including law enforement will only read so far. You can always condense your writing and still get your point across.

It is however, well wrtten and not the stupid sh** they probably see on a regular basis.

O.K. Let me have it. 

I can almost guess the response you will probably get if you do get one back: "We have to consider the safety of the general public. If we let you on the ice even though we have confidence you know what you're doing, what's to suggest others that aren't competent to know what is or is not safe won't follow suit? We can't justify the time and resources determining who can and can't get on the ice, or whether the ice is safe on moving water that is subject to rapid changing conditions."

All it takes is one moron falling through and if the city gives the blessing to ice fish they are in hotwater.

The city doesn't have to give its blessing to ice fish.  We have that right given to us by the state when we purchase our fishing license.  As far as people thinking that they can just walk anywhere on the ice because they see us fishing...I feel the same way about them as I do people riding motorcycles with out helmets. 

[GrizlyGarou]

The city doesn't have to give its blessing to ice fish.  We have that right given to us by the state when we purchase our fishing license.  As far as people thinking that they can just walk anywhere on the ice because they see us fishing...I feel the same way about them as I do people riding motorcycles with out helmets.

How true that is!

I'd be worried about the news deciding the cops should kick people off in the name of safety, then other towns might follow suit. If you know people on the force, Derrick, you're probably going about it the best way possible...

[MrE1979]

How true that is!

I'd be worried about the news deciding the cops should kick people off in the name of safety, then other towns might follow suit. If you know people on the force, Derrick, you're probably going about it the best way possible...

The "NEWS" would at least get both sides of the story I hope.  It would probably help our cause when we explain how we check the ice and the tools we use to do so.   That we unlike skaters, cross country skiers and people on atv/snowmobiles check the thickness of the ice and make sure it is "safe" ice before we venture out on to it.  We can explain that we know the difference between black and white ice.

I think Derek is definitely going about it in the correct manner but if that doesn't get the results then maybe turn to the media.

[derekinhawaii]

Then dont be surprised if you dont hear back. There is a reason people go to the media. It gets results. Otherwise your 4 page email "must have got sent to my spam folder".

The good news is that is was also sent to the Lt of the police department, who I know very well for about 15yrs.  He will see it come through because we have emailed prior to this.  So that won't go to a spam folder.

Additionally I include the Board of Selectman and Fire Chief.  Who interestingly enough, after I called him to discuss, had no issues with us on the ice.  HE was actually suppressed to hear that's 17+ inches.  He wished us luck.

I've since reached out to a reporter from Wicked Local who seems to write about winter sports in the area.  If I don't get any reply from the town I'll contact someone from the Boston Globe.

[BASSQUATCH]

Some people have too much time to sit on shanty! Go fishing for Christ sakes. You also can't categorize all snowmobile, ATV, cross country ski, skaters in one category. Some (not all) are foolish, just like some ice fishermen are.

[Eastciderida]

Some people have too much time to sit on shanty! Go fishing for Christ sakes. You also can't categorize all snowmobile, ATV, cross country ski, skaters in one category. Some (not all) are foolish, just like some ice fishermen are.

Like he said just go fish. Next time you catch law enforcement in the corner of your eye just pretend you don't hear them and continue on with what your doing.

[derekinhawaii]

Some people have too much time to sit on shanty! Go fishing for Christ sakes. You also can't categorize all snowmobile, ATV, cross country ski, skaters in one category. Some (not all) are foolish, just like some ice fishermen are.

I the only category I placed those activities into was winter sports.  This is exactly what they are. Second... I either fish or scuba dive every weekend.  I work every week day during the week.  Your point about having to much time is obtuse.  Or maybe you're unemployed and can fish everyday.  Or maybe your inherently rich.  Either way, don't be obtuse. 

TIGHT LINES!

[MrE1979]

Keith's comment was directed towards me 😁  He is busting my balls because I haven't been out. 

[BASSQUATCH]

Keith's comment was directed towards me 😁  He is busting my balls because I haven't been out.

Yup it was 😆 I'll get you out there even if I have to drag ya kicking and screaming bahahaha!

[THE JIGGER]

Yup it was 😆 I'll get you out there even if I have to drag ya kicking and screaming bahahaha!

Watch your back Keith,he's big

[BASSQUATCH]

Watch your back Keith,he's big

I'll trip him, no wait , I won't have too, he will fall from dizziness into a sled. Then I can drag his "big boned" a** out on the ice.  Easy pulling now, snow is GONE!!! 😎😆

[taxi1]

The city doesn't have to give its blessing to ice fish.  We have that right given to us by the state when we purchase our fishing license.  As far as people thinking that they can just walk anywhere on the ice because they see us fishing...I feel the same way about them as I do people riding motorcycles with out helmets.

I respectfully disagree. The city may not have to give it's blessing, but you can bet your bottom dollar if someone else drowns, their family will try and sue the city if a sleazebag attorney thinks he can prove the city complicit.

Years ago kids could fish about any pond around here and no one had an issue with it. Now ponds are closed off because the owners are afraid of losing everything they have if someone drowns.

They told us in a business law class I took, that a homeowner can post his swimming pool all he wants, put an eight foot fence around it and he's still liable if a kid climbs the fence and drowns. Yeah that's what the law profession had done to America. I remember reading about a burglar that sued a homeowner after he fell through the skylight and injured himself. We had a case in my area where a burglar got shot and he tried to sue the homeowner. Fortunately there was such an outcry from the people in the area it was thrown out of court.

My European side of the family find this ridiculous. In Germany all of the above wouldn't even make it to court.

[THE JIGGER]

I respectfully disagree. The city may not have to give it's blessing, but you can bet your bottom dollar if someone else drowns, their family will try and sue the city if a sleazebag attorney thinks he can prove the city complicit.

Years ago kids could fish about any pond around here and no one had an issue with it. Now ponds are closed off because the owners are afraid of losing everything they have if someone drowns.

They told us in a business law class I took, that a homeowner can post his swimming pool all he wants, put an eight foot fence around it and he's still liable if a kid climbs the fence and drowns. Yeah that's what the law profession had done to America. I remember reading about a burglar that sued a homeowner after he fell through the skylight and injured himself. We had a case in my area where a burglar got shot and he tried to sue the homeowner. Fortunately there was such an outcry from the people in the area it was thrown out of court.

My European side of the family find this ridiculous. In Germany all of the above wouldn't even make it to court.

i thought that there is a law in Mass that if somebody gets injured from a natural hazard such as falling out of a tree etc,that the owner of the property is not liable even though the property is not posted. Wouldn't falling threw the ice be a natural hazard?

[MrE1979]

I respectfully disagree. The city may not have to give it's blessing, but you can bet your bottom dollar if someone else drowns, their family will try and sue the city if a sleazebag attorney thinks he can prove the city complicit.

Years ago kids could fish about any pond around here and no one had an issue with it. Now ponds are closed off because the owners are afraid of losing everything they have if someone drowns.

They told us in a business law class I took, that a homeowner can post his swimming pool all he wants, put an eight foot fence around it and he's still liable if a kid climbs the fence and drowns. Yeah that's what the law profession had done to America. I remember reading about a burglar that sued a homeowner after he fell through the skylight and injured himself. We had a case in my area where a burglar got shot and he tried to sue the homeowner. Fortunately there was such an outcry from the people in the area it was thrown out of court.

My European side of the family find this ridiculous. In Germany all of the above wouldn't even make it to court.

If the city had a say over the waters you would need a city to city permit to fish, boat, swim etc...  What is different if someone drowns from boating in a pond/lake?  Ice?

 If it is NOT posted "No fishing" every 50' it is fair game unless you have to trespass on private land that is posted "No Trespassing" every 50'.  At least that is what my uncle found out from the EPO when he wanted to stop hunters from hunting his 30 acres of land. 

Drive by any reservoir you can't fish in and look at the trees.  Every 50' you will see a sign go read what it says. 

[lawnguyjack]

DON'T GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS!!! I've been following this thread the past few days and it makes me upset thatthis happened to beginwith.  I am not anti cop however I am very pro American. This thread as well as the Charles River thread should make all of us be vigilant and never stand short on our given rights. Be respectful and more importantly be educated.  Call your EPO when your not sure. Never stand down

[capt.shay]

i thought that there is a law in Mass that if somebody gets injured from a natural hazard such as falling out of a tree etc,that the owner of the property is not liable even though the property is not posted. Wouldn't falling threw the ice be a natural hazard?

Oddly enough, Ma. actually has a really great protective statute in place called, I believe, the Massachusetts Recreational Land Use Act (They changed the name but I believe this one is current).  In simple terms, it states that if you allow a person to recreate on your land, you are free of indemnity for any injury unless it can be proved that you committed gross or intentional acts.  This law has been tested several times and in some of the cases I read about, even I would have found fault with the land owner but they were protected under this law. 

It doesn't stop people from suing you but it does stop them from winning.  Then again, same goes with posted signs.

[BaitBucket]

Some people have too much time to sit on shanty!

Pssst.. You're leading the charge on posts per day lol

[MrE1979]

Pssst.. You're leading the charge on posts per day lol

It should read Posts per day from the ice and posts per day not on the ice.  He would lead the first category.

[BASSQUATCH]

Pssst.. You're leading the charge on posts per day lol

I'm not sure if you realize this but its 2015! I haven't touched a computer in like 7 years! Most of my ice shanty posts are from the ice & 97% of them are about my fishing trips. I didn't let a little snow & cold keep me home this season. Yup I have allot of posts, yup I don't care if some think its over posting, better than not posting or sitting home posting stupid sh**. Some day (maybe) this site will go back to people fishing and sharing their story. Or it will continue to become "FaceShanty" PS 1 more post to the post count 👍👍  PS #2 maybe I should apply to be a moderator. I already moderate 4000+ on my group page I created for my town. Can't be too tough moderating the 25 or so that actually post here.

[derekinhawaii]

So I've had a conversation with the Chief of Police.  He forwarded my email to the captain.  the pictures are of the official complaint directed towards the two responding officers.  I expect to get a response from Belmont PD within the next two weeks.

]

[lowaccord66]

Nice the formal complaint is a great step in checking their power.  Hurley might get lucky and get to drive a desk for some time while the complaint is settled.

Now call the either zoning or the tax office to get property lines and prove your access was legal.  I had to do that for Marblehead neck when the guy who lives adjacent to the park kept calling on me.

[taxi1]

Good luck Derek! I hope the ending is to the satisfaction of all of us.

Will you please move this over to fishfinder if it lasts that long?

Thanks!

 

[city slicker]

Derek, I think you beating a dead horse.   move on and don't make waves..  even if you right..  there is not enough good fishing in Belmont to fight over.  Just my .02

PS..  food for thought...  Gerrys pit !  I bet most never heard or now where.  I have wanted to try this spot for many years..  Cambridge I think ?   LOL

[masshills]

DON'T GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS!!! I've been following this thread the past few days and it makes me upset thatthis happened to beginwith.  I am not anti cop however I am very pro American. This thread as well as the Charles River thread should make all of us be vigilant and never stand short on our given rights. Be respectful and more importantly be educated.  Call your EPO when your not sure. Never stand down

X2

[otzi]

Derek, I think you beating a dead horse.   move on and don't make waves..  even if you right..  there is not enough good fishing in Belmont to fight over.  Just my .02

PS..  food for thought...  Gerrys pit !  I bet most never heard or now where.  I have wanted to try this spot for many years..  Cambridge I think ?   LOL

I fished the water on the other side of the T station from the pit and used to take small bass to 2lbs and big carp in the brook. We called the little pond "Leukemia Bay" due to all the pollution. The pigs we would get out of Fresh Pond.

[derekinhawaii]

It's been about a month with no official word from the Belmont Police.  However from an unnamed source it sounds like the police department know they are in the wrong with threatening us with arrest for not getting off the ice.
 
The witness (my friend who was ice fishing with me) was asked by the police officer investigating the complaint what he wanted from the investigation.  He explained that he wanted the Belmont Police and the town to educate themselves about ice safety and also to further train their officers on how to interact with the public in a less threatening way. 

I too also stated that the town needs to educate their officials with relation to ice safety. 

FOR THOSE WHO SAY I'M BEATING A DEAD HORSE with this complaint, know that I'm actually standing up for all of us fisherman.  Neighbors of these ponds are ignorant to the rules and laws in this state.  It's the local police and towns that should not be ignorant.  I'm hopeful that this outcome will be in OUR favor... not just mine...

I expect a conclusion to my complaint this coming week.

STAY TUNED FOR the official word.....

[BobP]

Good for you, thanks for keeping us up dated.

[fishermantim]

It's just that it's easier to just give up and accept the official's "on-the-spot" verdict even when you think they are wrong!
Sometimes you just have to stand your ground and say "NO" when you know you are being wronged.
This is just such an example!

Good luck, and keep us posted of your results.

[capt.shay]

Fight the good fight brother.  Your friend has the right idea.  Not vindication, just education.