why does nj allow snagging while ice fishing?

[delawareriver]

Anyone know the reasoning behind this?

[Fishndude75]

I watched a bunch of guys on the Delaware snagging and keeping every catfish that came through the hole.I can't believe that that is leagle.They had piles of catfish on the ice,talk about raping a fishery!!!

[delawareriver]

I watched a bunch of guys on the Delaware snagging and keeping every catfish that came through the hole.I can't believe that that is leagle.They had piles of catfish on the ice,talk about raping a fishery!!!

yeah but completely legal. No limit on catfish on the delaware and ok to snag, I don't get it

[FASTEDDIE29]

It's called gigging unfortunately and it's not breaking any rules or regs. It's weird to watch people do this to our fish. I can't stand it but it happens. The boys down in Califon on the SB have a sucker gigging party every year on the ice. They don't even use rods. They make long gafs that make it to the bottom of the river channel, they mark the fish and rip up and down until they snag something in the stomach or wherever. It's sick and I just don't get it. Very strange thing to be legal. Unreal!

[chrisk]

Those Califon boys post gigging videos on Youtube. I thought it as being a throwback in time that phasing out.

[fishgalore]

NJ is the same as NY in that "snagging" or foul hooking a fish requires that the fish be released if caught in that manner. It doesn't matter if its through the ice or not.

In my research, based upon this thread, I found that they accidentally omitted NJAC 7:25-6.12 in the pdf document of the fish code. That section (6.12) in the table of contents is "Snagging Prohibited". However, when you scroll down to p 24  section 6.12 is omitted in the doc. It goes from 6.11 to 6.13. So I called and spoke to Mark Boriek who assured me that that provision is a part of the code and we discussed both the SB of the Raritan with suckers and the Gap with Catfish. Apparently, there is another document Title 23 and section :5-3 is the section "Fishing through ice". Some CO's are allowing the taking of suckers via snagging but it remains a violation of the code. There is some question about the interpretation of Title 23:5-3 that they are working through so enforcement might be a gray area in so far as suckers are concerned. But for Catfish on the Big D or anywhere else there is NO question. The same rules apply. If you foul hook a fish the code says it MUST be released whether it was intentional or not.

We also discussed the situation further on the Big D (I saw the video the news showed) and if you ask me it was NOT clear that the INTENT was to snag those fish using a jigging method. In other words, if I was a CO, I would NOT issue a ticket to those fishermen in that video UNLESS I actually heard them say they were intentionally snagging. It appeared to me that the fish may in fact be so thick down there (one fisherman said that they were) that it would be nearly impossible to not foul hook them. So before you get all ruffled (as I know several of you will) and shoot the messenger (as I also know  some will) the MAIN POINT is that if a fish is brought through and foul hooked IT MUST be RELEASED!!!!! So on that basis, if I saw someone keep a foul hooked fish in that video (I would have to re-watch it more closely) then if I was a CO I WOULD ISSUE a summons on that basis! Since that would be a CLEAR VIOLATION of the no snagging policy in this specific case.

Mr. Boriek concurred on my views of the situation. He has seen the SB video of the suckers and heard (I believe he stated that) about the Catfish. They are discussing the issue concerning the interpretation involving the suckers but he clearly stated that a foul hooked Catfish MUST be released!!! Suckers are the only gray area at the present!

[Chrisper4694]

why would they print the magazine saying snagging is not prohibited through the ice?  I thought it just meant if you hit one in the belly when it struck at your lure it was ok...i didn't know guys were literally gaff snagging fish...

[delawareriver]

How can you say they were not intentionally snagging, jigging a lure that moves away from the hole and lifting from their waist to over their heads. Heard of guys snagging upwards of 400 catfish in one day
 400 doesn't happen by accident, it's intentional. I also saw the snagging section missing from the codes but  it clearly says in the guide, snagging is illegal unless ice fishing.

[fishgalore]

How can you say they were not intentionally snagging, jigging a lure that moves away from the hole and lifting from their waist to over their heads. Heard of guys snagging upwards of 400 catfish in one day
 400 doesn't happen by accident, it's intentional. I also saw the snagging section missing from the codes but  it clearly says in the guide, snagging is illegal unless ice fishing.

You view what they did any way you want no one will change your mind! I have jigged by lifting the rod tip from the hole to the top of my head. It doesn't mean I was trying to snag a fish!

As for the 2015 Freshwater Digest I see where it says what you posted. For that I have no answer. I went to the horses mouth for the answer since forums IMO are not a very good place for logical, rational dialogue. It's more like lets bash who we don't like or disagree with. That's why I don't post much anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you could call Mark and ask him yourself. One thing I am certain of is that you are more likely to get an answer that's closer to the truth from him than you are stirring up drama here on this forum! Maybe they made a mistake like in the Fish code by omitting 6.12. Or maybe he has not been apprised of the new regs (highly unlikely), or maybe the publisher made a mistake.  I did what most people don't do.................go to the best source for an answer. Whether its a flasher problem, auger problem, regulations problem............... don't matter................ ...best place to go is to the horses mouth! NOT A FORUM!

Detecting a problem in the regs was a good find but how you handle it says much about you! You'll understand that more clearly as you age, you're to young yet. But a day will come and you'll know what I mean! Until then I expect more of the same from you and similar folk who get entertained by rational posters that try to leave emotions and bias out of the equation!

[chrisk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-howmrJIM

[FASTEDDIE29]

Oh boy, lol! Gotta love the Jersey country boys. Gig em n smoke em!!! I've seen the mess this year on the big river. There was 100 quart coolers  being filled to the top with some our tasty Channels. Yes I would say there was easy 400 on the ice the last time I was there. I haven't been back since. They'll shut that down somehow. I'll be thankful when they do!

[Evil Tom]

By the time its shut down it'll be too late.Just like bottom draggers ruined the fluke fishery and other fisheries along the coast.

[Gills-only]

What about other fish that are "snagged"??  There has to be other species in there also!

[delawareriver]

You view what they did any way you want no one will change your mind! I have jigged by lifting the rod tip from the hole to the top of my head. It doesn't mean I was trying to snag a fish!

As for the 2015 Freshwater Digest I see where it says what you posted. For that I have no answer. I went to the horses mouth for the answer since forums IMO are not a very good place for logical, rational dialogue. It's more like lets bash who we don't like or disagree with. That's why I don't post much anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you could call Mark and ask him yourself. One thing I am certain of is that you are more likely to get an answer that's closer to the truth from him than you are stirring up drama here on this forum! Maybe they made a mistake like in the Fish code by omitting 6.12. Or maybe he has not been apprised of the new regs (highly unlikely), or maybe the publisher made a mistake.  I did what most people don't do.................go to the best source for an answer. Whether its a flasher problem, auger problem, regulations problem............... don't matter................ ...best place to go is to the horses mouth! NOT A FORUM!

Detecting a problem in the regs was a good find but how you handle it says much about you! You'll understand that more clearly as you age, you're to young yet. But a day will come and you'll know what I mean! Until then I expect more of the same from you and similar folk who get entertained by rational posters that try to leave emotions and bias out of the equation!

what do you mean how I handled it? I saw something that I didn't care for, and asked a question if there was a reason behind it. I'm not bashing the guys that do it, it's perfectly legal as far I have found. I agree mark is a great knowledgeable guy, have talked with him several times on different topics from laws, to invasive species and when my friend shot the state record carp last year. Yet he is not the one able to write tickets even if it is illegal. No law is worth anything if it isn't enforced. Not to mention it wouldn't be the first time I would be given wrong information from a CO or biologist  not saying anything bad about them especially mark because he is very knowledgeable as I stated but sometimes the complex laws change or fall under different cases or just are not common. For instance bowfishing, I've had CO ask me about the laws because they know I am constantly on the water and working to change the laws for bowfishing. For instance I'm trying to get crossbows passed for bowfishing so I can take veterans out on my boat and while talking with COs as well as farther up the chain and most of the people I talked didn't even realize crossbows wernt legal for bowfishing not because they don't know their job but it just never came up before.

And as far as jigging motions go, can you give a reason why you would need to jig from the ice to over your head? I watched these guys, some constantly do it, but the guys with the flashers jig a few inches at a time to attract the fish in, once they mark fish you see them drop the lure down and start sweeping up. If that isn't intentional snagging I don't know what would be considered snagging. Travel up to new York and fish for steelhead or salmon and lift your pole more than once during a cast and see what a co says to you.

And believe it or not many guys on forums are quit knowledgeable, yes everyone has an opinion, some bad advice is giving now and again but doesn't mean you can't have a useful discussion or learn from a forum. Isn't that what we are all here for anyways? to learn, could be certain tactics, new areas, or even reports Its all about spreading knowledge and learning.

[delawareriver]

What about other fish that are "snagged"??  There has to be other species in there also!

perfectly legal, as long as you follow size and creel limits as far as I can tell.

[fishgalore]

what do you mean how I handled it? I saw something that I didn't care for, and asked a question if there was a reason behind it. I'm not bashing the guys that do it, it's perfectly legal as far I have found. I agree mark is a great knowledgeable guy, have talked with him several times on different topics from laws, to invasive species and when my friend shot the state record carp last year. Yet he is not the one able to write tickets even if it is illegal. No law is worth anything if it isn't enforced. Not to mention it wouldn't be the first time I would be given wrong information from a CO or biologist  not saying anything bad about them especially mark because he is very knowledgeable as I stated but sometimes the complex laws change or fall under different cases or just are not common. For instance bowfishing, I've had CO ask me about the laws because they know I am constantly on the water and working to change the laws for bowfishing. For instance I'm trying to get crossbows passed for bowfishing so I can take veterans out on my boat and while talking with COs as well as farther up the chain and most of the people I talked didn't even realize crossbows wernt legal for bowfishing not because they don't know their job but it just never came up before.

And as far as jigging motions go, can you give a reason why you would need to jig from the ice to over your head? I watched these guys, some constantly do it, but the guys with the flashers jig a few inches at a time to attract the fish in, once they mark fish you see them drop the lure down and start sweeping up. If that isn't intentional snagging I don't know what would be considered snagging. Travel up to new York and fish for steelhead or salmon and lift your pole more than once during a cast and see what a co says to you.

And believe it or not many guys on forums are quit knowledgeable, yes everyone has an opinion, some bad advice is giving now and again but doesn't mean you can't have a useful discussion or learn from a forum. Isn't that what we are all here for anyways? to learn, could be certain tactics, new areas, or even reports Its all about spreading knowledge and learning.

Can of worms coming...........

Ok so we have established that there's a difference between making the laws, understanding them and then enforcing them within ANY given organization. What else is new? That's true for law enforcement every where. Some use their own common sense. e.g. NJ idle law: Its a joke..........3 minutes max. Never saw it enforced ever! From Oct to April I warm up my car at least 10 mins, more like 20 on cold days. My point was go to the horses mouth for the answer not a forum no matter how knowledgeable guys may be unless they work for the state they don't know the reason. They may think they know though and that spreads rumors and viola' drama. It's happening already.
http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/idling_fact_sheet_1.pdf


The reason(s) I do it have to do with attracting fish to the area or so they can see the presentation that would otherwise go undetected by small jig motions. I don't fish with a flasher, never have, and never needed to do so. It's to much dough to spend if you ask me. Moreover, it would kill me to see fish there and not be able to get them to bite. Talk about frustrating!!! That's torture. I've had that happen in the summer with my fish finder, marking fish and no takers! Brutal!
There have been many times I simply raised the jig about 4-5' and on the drop down a fish takes the presentation. I can't see the fish without a flasher so it's blind fishing.

I used to be very liberal, to a fault, with trying to help others but now very selective with whom I share info anymore. Cynicism and my experience on many forums can be thanked for that!

[FASTEDDIE29]

It's Friday!!! Who's going out to catch em up tomorrow. I got the sausage and peppers, beers and whiskey!!!! YEA BUDDY!!!

[Icemark247]

I might do the meet up. but im in the mood to try and catch trout on aeroflex

[Icemark247]

I got some bunker snagging hooks. Im Game Fast eddie 

[saxmatt]

fishgalore is back...YES!!!! I thought you fell through the ice or something bud 

[Icemark247]

I did get the chance to catch up fish galore. He is doing well Hope you nail some big fish on your trip next week man!

[Evil Tom]

It's  good to see a discussion that actually ruffles some feathers.Im too busy fishing to worry about snagging  on the Delaware.

[delawareriver]

It's  good to see a discussion that actually ruffles some feathers.Im too busy fishing to worry about snagging  on the Delaware.

as anglers we need to stick together to protect our fisheries, one day we might have to stick together to help one of your spots

[fishgalore]

I'm not back just lurking. I did, however, request some clarification of the code from a CO I have had contact with in the past. Lets see what light he sheds on the subject. If and when I get a reply I will post it.

Not much ice fishing for me since I hate the cold anymore and won't trudge through the snow either. Especially with 80-100 lbs of stuff in tow. And the cost to lighten that effort is to great an investment with little return for me to act on it and no real guarantee of 4-8 weeks of ice in NJ in a given year.

If the weather had even a remote possibility for stream fishing I would do that instead. All you need is to dress warm, good equipment and carry a rod & reel and viola' piece of cake. But not once this year for me. I even planned to hit the Salmon river/LO tribs at least once per month this winter but no way in these conditions. Last winter I got out in the stream once and it was tough conditions. My days of ice fishing are numbered and coming to an end. I hit the ice a handful of times and once, for only 2 hours, after the big snows hit. I was invited several times but when you work outside all day the last thing you want to do is spend it beating your body up in the same conditions on your day(s) off. Hell no, not me. I'll go when there's little or no snow but once the snow comes................. .......fuggetaboutit! I guess getting older changes a lot of things, things you never thought would change.

Soon, I'll be in shorts, warm climate and a new fishing challenge. One I've never done before. Hoorah! They tell me I'll be hooked for life! I think so!

[delawareriver]

I hear ya there, definitely tough to work outside all day and then spend your free time in the cold. I'm pretty use to it by now but I myself havnt been out nearly as much compared to most years. Yeah fish in new york just is no fun with highs in the singles digits much of this winter, havnt been up since November myself but got a nice 15lb steelhead that trip to make it worth while. where you going south?

[Ski Hunter]

There is no way anyone who's actually been there and seen it can say they aren't intentionally snagging     The last time I was there guys were using bare treble hooks. Guess they were trying to get biters     Not a single guy out there fishing for the cats, that I've seen, is using any jig without multiple hooks. Most are using the largest jigging raps they can get there hands on and just ripping it through the water column.

[fishgalore]

I hear ya there, definitely tough to work outside all day and then spend your free time in the cold. I'm pretty use to it by now but I myself havnt been out nearly as much compared to most years. Yeah fish in new york just is no fun with highs in the singles digits much of this winter, havnt been up since November myself but got a nice 15lb steelhead that trip to make it worth while. where you going south?

I went with a guide in mid December, 2-8 with one male and one female landed. Had one to the net that was 12 lb + and on for at least 10 mins but it came unbuttoned. No lines broke just deep hook sets were hard to come by that day. The 2 that were landed the hook came out before we could do it when the fish was in the net. The guide even hooked one on the fly rod before handing it over to me. Temps got to the mid 30's that day and it was very tolerable.  I have been there in the past in early December in a snow storm with a guide when temps were 10 degrees. Doable but not my idea of ideal conditions anymore but I think I would do that in a boat before I would wade fish. Icemark was on that trip a few years back.

My new norm is to try and spend at least a weekend each month from April to October fishing the Upper Delaware for trout. Then from October to April a weekend a month on LO tribs (weather permitting). I also joined a saltwater fly fishing club and we do monthly trips in April, May, June then September to November to target saltwater species on the fly. Stripers, Albies, Bonito, weakfish, Blues even Fluke can be caught that way.

Just a few years ago I can remember many days ice fishing in 10 degrees with wind chills in the negative temps and I was out there all day. Snow, no snow, it didn't matter. Not my cup of tea anymore.

Heading to the Bahama's for Bone fish for 7 days. A shot at Barracuda maybe if I can change to a shock leader fast enough. I hear where we are going there aren't many bigger ones (over 36") on the flats. But Permit and smaller Tarpon might be found but they are fewer in numbers and not the target species.

[fishgalore]

Here's one from a trip in CT last April. It was my best day all last year. I went 13-23 with the fly rod in about 2 hours of almost non stop action with the out going tide. The fish were and are mostly schoolies but fun as heck. This one was the biggest at about 26 5/8". 7-8 lb range. I'm a catch and release guy so keeper size doesn't matter much to me. The reason 13-23 is to strip hook set not lift the rod tip. It took me a while but I figured it out.

[Evil Tom]

Sorry to hear your ice fishing days are numbered fishgalore.I too work outside year round although the winter slows down my outside work and I'm on the ice as much as possible in ny and nj.These past 2 months I've been out at least 4 times every week if not more.Im pretty year this season will be the most days out for me ever.As for this snagging.Its not fishing as far as Im concerned.It should be illegal.I don't even know why someone would find that enjoyable.Suckers I wouldn't eat and although I love catfish tacos 400 fish in one day I can't see all of them going to use for more than possibly fertilizer.Good luck fishgalore in all your fishing adventures and if you ever get the itch for ice sounds like you got plenty of friends that will help you scratch that itch.Got a flag up gotta go

[The Crittercoroner]

Gigging g is not the same as snagging.

Gigging is done with a spear with a multiple pronged head on it. Like those Califon boys use for suckers. They smoke em and they say they are pretty good.

Snagging is just that. Foul hooking with whatever you have on hand.