Ethical perch size limits.

[flagfishon]

I may have been doing this all wrong.  I have always tried to keep only the larger perch for two reasons.  1st, they have more meat and 2nd, I thought that by throwing the smaller ones back, it would give them a chance to grow up and be the big ones I would keep in years to come.  So last week I went out and caught about 40 perch and kept 11 for dinner.  10 of them were females with eggs.  My question is, should I be keeping more of the smaller, less necessary, males for dinner and releasing some of the girls? 

[tracker one]

I may have been doing this all wrong.  I have always tried to keep only the larger perch for two reasons.  1st, they have more meat and 2nd, I thought that by throwing the smaller ones back, it would give them a chance to grow up and be the big ones I would keep in years to come.  So last week I went out and caught about 40 perch and kept 11 for dinner.  10 of them were females with eggs.  My question is, should I be keeping more of the smaller, less necessary, males for dinner and releasing some of the girls?

don't worry about it,you are not going to impact the perch population one way or the other,worry more about invasive species and commercial fishermen

[BassInVt]

too small, is too small, plain and simple. i figure that anything under 5 inchs is bait, its to small to try and clean them for eating. I throw those back because i dont use tipups. Anything above that i clean and eat.  Also Im not out there to fill 5 gallon buckets, i only go for enough for a few meals, one for that night, and some to freeze.  If Im lucky enough. lol

[ice fiend]

I love how commercial fisherman are made out to be as bad as invasive species

[BassInVt]

there is no bad mouthing going on here. If people want to commercial fish, so be it. I cant stop them. I just dont believe in it. Im a true believer of over fishing certain species does hurt our lakes. Thats all.  When i was a kid, it was nothing fill a 5 gallon bucket of perch, all slabbers. Not tiny ones. We had 5 kids and two adults to feed. So it was common for us to do that. Did it happen every time we went out. No.. But it has been a good many years, since Ive been able to do that.  And back then you didnt see people walking off with buckets full of fish.  put them in there vehicle and go right back out.  And for the money that they make, sorry i dont see it being worth while.  If you dont eat them, give some to friends, family, people that could use them for meals, the elderly.  Or they can fish for something they do it, or catch and release. Sorry I just dont believe in it.  When i catch to many or i have some extra in my freezer, I no many people, that love getting a couple dozen for there family, or the elderly guy that cant fish anymore, and then you get the storys that go with it.  Why dont we see white fish in our lake anymore, commercial fishing. Why dont we see sturgeon anymore, commercial fishing. Small populations of both exist, but when was the last time you heard about someone catching a white fish in lake champlain? Do the math. 

[flagfishon]

I've also heard stories of longnose gar in bays so thick that you could almost walk across them. Many 6 feet.

[ice fiend]

Im a commercial fisherman not a successful one but still. And while we're on the topic of fish populations that have seen a decline what about gge northern pike population in champlain and across vt. Im sure everybody has noticed the decline in size quality of northern pike in champlain and our other lakes as well as the fact that some spots arent as good as they once were. A couple examples of this would be carry bay, dillenbach, the sandbar. Ive talked to several ice fisherman who've said they've noticed the same thing. And most of us have watchdd many times people catch   legal pike and keep them now i only keep maybe one northern a year but i pnly keep em over 30 inches because there is hardly any meat on ghe little ones and not to bash out of staters but most often the fisherman are either from out of state or from canada once again not trying to bash anybody but has anybody noticed or witnessed this?

[BassInVt]

Longnose gar, I've seen some of there spawning area's in the spring, and they are still thick as thieves. And yes you could walk across them. The first lamoille river damn is a great place to witness this.  The first two weeks of trout season is roughly a good time to check it out. Just walk along the river bank below the damn. wow what a sight.

[troutcrazy]

Honestly, I think it's fine to keep small perch.  I'm ecologically minded, too.
Here's why:
-There are millions of 'em.  You're not going to catch them all, and there will be plenty to grow big. 
-They represent a lower "ecological investment".  That is, it takes less of an ecosystem's resources to grow a bunch of small fish than it does to grow a handful of big ones.
-They don't bioaccumulate toxins (mercruy, pcb's, dioxin) as much as bigger fish, so they are healthier to eat in quantity.

[dickbaker]

I don't understand why anybody keeps fish honestly.  for the cost of bait. a licence. food.drinks.propane.eq uipment. if your out there to catch dinner your really delusional.

  And!  You fish for WHY

[stubborn1]

Iverson.  4 years ago I invested in a $400 Vexilar, a $350 power auger, a $300 ice suit, and a $200 flip-over shanty.  I've more than made my money back in that time.  I know people don't like commercial fisherman, but I think Champlain can sustain it.  There are plenty of lakes and ponds that get fished hard (Carmi and Morey) and there are still lots of fish in them.  Just my thoughts.

[keithm87]

While the idea of making a living fishing seems like a fun one, I think I will keep my real job. I will let those who want to freeze their butts off for $40 on a good day do that. There ar,e however a couple of thing that bothers me about it is that they pay the same for their license as everyone else, and they don't pay taxes on the fish they catch as income, and then of course you have the fact that alot of these people who sell their fish are people collecting a gov check because they "cant work", but they can spend 5 hours a day on the lake fishing. I think if the state required people to have a special licence to sell fish, taxed the sales as income, and made those holding that licence ineligible for benefits (SSI, SSDI, Unemployment, welfare, etc.) we would see a quick end to the "commercial fishing".

[stubborn1]

This forum kills me.  I've seen commercial fisherman categorized here as unethical, invasive, dishonest and now disabled.  How's that for a well-balanced and fair characterization?  I won't go into a run-down of people (not fisherman) who criticize commercial fisherman.  I just don't understand why folks can't live and let live.  Are commercial fisherman really the only one's not claiming all their income?  Get real. 

[thefishingweatherman]

There's been a lot of talk about the declining populations of certain fish in the lake on this forum, like whitefish, salmon, gar, sturgeon. I my view, this decline has less to do with fishing (commercial or otherwise) and more to do with the fact that we have dammed up the major rivers, which prevents many fish from reaching their breeding ground. This is why we have to stock the lake with Salmon. When was the last time anyone caught a non-stocked or non-transported landlocked in the Huntington? Not in living memory I'd say, but most stretches of the Winooski used to teem with them 200 years ago.

If it weren't for the fact that lake sturgeon live so long, they'd probably have gone extinct long ago in the lake. They can't get to where they need to spawn.

Before we go blaming all the commercial fisherman for the decline in certain fish numbers, we oughta look at some of these dams. The state's been trying to remove a little useless dam in Swanton for years, because it would open up big stretches of the Missisquoi to spawning fish. They've been unable to do this, because the town wants to keep this tiny useless obstruction in place because it adds to the "character" of the town. They've gone so far as submitting a proposal to use it to generate hydropower, even though it's such a small dam that everyone knows a powerstation there wouldn't be big enough to power a hair dryer. It's all a stall tactic. This sort of thing, in my view, is what is really hurting fishing.

Add in pollution and invasives, and the balance in the lake is really out of whack.

Commercial fisherman are only allowed to sell certain species, which are either plentiful, or invasive. So let's not bash them for trying to make an honest buck. It's not easy money freezing your butt off out there for a 40-50 bucks a day. Yes, there are times when the price is good that you can make one or two hundred bucks a day, but that isn't often. Usually, by the time the fish are biting steady, there's so many people out there on the ice that the price plummets. I practically gave away a couple hundred pounds to Bayside back in April. It's not lucrative, unless you are a damn good fisherman, and can find the fish before anyone else.

[VTMatt]

Well put. It saddens me to see so many river spawning fish that reside in the Lake be denied proper spawning grounds.  Our trout and salmon in Champlain are pretty much all stocked besides a few "maybe" wild fish from the NY side.  If I remember right, so are walleye. As for commercial fisherman, I don't mind much. A lucrative business?  Maybe to some.... But very inconsistent.  As for the disabled guys taking advantage of it - jeez...really?  Yes I'm sure some are doing it, but there are also people who aren't disabled that are poaching fish and others who illegally sell fish to restaurants.  If you want to see unethical "anglers" take a trip to the Salmon River in NY. Makes you really appreciate the ethics in Champlain.

[perch bait]

I personally think that you can keep whatever you want to keep so long as you're going to eat it all. If you know that there are healthy perch populations in the body of water that you are fishing, then keeping all the fish you catch probably won't put that big of a dent in the population. Besides, VFW monitors the populations and if they think that limits and regulations need to be set to sustain the populations then they will. 

[VTMatt]

I'm not saying the people who live near that river are unethical.  I'm saying there are many unethical anglers who DO fish that river, be it from the area or not.  The few times I've gone I was just disgusted.  Probably won't ever go back to that river and will seek out other Great Lakes tribs. While there will be those kinds of anglers everywhere, I saw much less of them when I went to western NY. 

[jonny jigger]

i like how some people think that guys who fish for money are jobless. i my self have a great paying job that allows me to fish 3 to 4 times a week i fish for money and make a lot more then 40 dollars a day. to me it pays for all my guns i buy and there not cheap brands ether. plus my gas and fishing gear yes there are some days the fish are not there but the days they are it makes up for the bad days . how people fish or what  they take or put back is there own personal take on it. fishing is fishing lets just enjoy it and keep the way we feel about it to are self . 

[stubborn1]

I hear ya Jigger.  I work almost every day from Spring until bow season, and then I have time to ice fish.  My fish money pays for gas, tackle, and my fishing gear.  I don't make great money fishing, but it averages out.  I don't feel like I'm fishing out and body of water.  I fish alone, and I mind my own business.  So it's a kick in the sack to get on this forum and read the stuff people think.  Oh well.  I have to remember that we aren't going to change anyone's mind by posting and arguing.  Just wanted to say I appreciate the fact that I'm not the only "commercial" fishing outcast who frequents this site.  Full buckets!

[jonny jigger]

hell ya full buckets to all 

[ice fiend]

agreed i commercial fish and somedays i do good other days i do terrible usually my fish money goes into gas.

[keithm87]

I am not saying that everyone is jobless, or faking disability, but unclaimed income is unclaimed income. There is not a single "commercial" fishermen who claim their earnings. It's tax season; its easy to do; turbo tax asks the question "do you have any other income from less common sources" you could click yes and be honest, but no one will. It is untaxed, unclaimed income. You may work hard all summer, but I work hard all year. I pay taxes all year, I don't work summer, collect unemployment in the winter and supplement that with unclaimed earnings from fishing. Again I have no problem with commercial fishing, just a lack of regulation in it. We all know the people who don't work in the winter fish everyday and sell the fish. Those people generally get government money from unemployment and food stamps, that money is my tax money, that could be better spent on restoring the lakes, could be spent on fixing the roads, could be spent on educating people, could be spent on any other assortment of things, or could just not be spent and stay in my check, but instead it goes to people who don't claim what can be decent earnings fishing. I imagine that lobster fishermen in Maine pay taxes on there catches, I imagine tuna fishermen in mass do the same. What makes a perch jerker any different? If the love of fishing is what drives you to the lake there are better outlets than selling the fish, food shelves across the state I am sure would take donations, churches, and shelters likely would too. I am sure there are thousands of elderly people who would love a perch dinner, but can't get on a lake, why sell the fish to have it shipped out of state when you could help your community. I know that I am making a generalization about this issue, and my stance may be unpopular, I guess morals are subjective on more than one level though.

[BassInVt]

there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion keith

[jonny jigger]

i work all year to  your lucky if you just have to use tubo tax i myself have go to a tax man  plus guys who collet unployment  pay taxes out of it comparing lobstering  and tuna fishing to jigging a few fish out of a hole is thousands of dollars to pennys  plus your allowed to make 2500 dollars a year with out calming it for taxes and half the the fish i sell go to stores around here for people to buy all cleaned just saying

[jonny jigger]

one more thing if i wanted to have my money taxed then i would say its my fishing business and then be able to show lost by useing my 4 weeler my pick up my gas i spend doing it all my gear my bait my close  for what i would make with fish the gov would owe me money thats why they dont care about a few dollars not claimed owed my own business for 18 years i think i know how it works just ask the tuna guys

[troutcrazy]

I think it's weird that we're talking about fishermen not paying their share of taxes on a few dollars worth of fish.  All around us there are corporations and ultra-rich people who are not paying their share of taxes, while getting richer and richer by profiting off of underpaid labor.  That's something to get mad about-- not some guy who sold some perch.

[flagfishon]

Ok, what does any of this have to do with keeping all females, only to let the smaller males go?  I think I'll just target pike the rest of the year.

[stubborn1]

You are totally right Flagfishon!  We should stick to the thread, and to the fishing part.

[Smelty88]

where is the emoticon of two guys peeing at each other?

[troutcrazy]

Oh... yeah.  I didn't quite understand the original question.
 
If you're trying to make a minimum impact on the breeding population, it seems like keeping all females is not the way to go, but I'm not sure.
 
The males are more important in some species, like crappie, where the males build a nest and guard it while females move around and lay eggs in multiple nests.

My understanding with yellow perch is that the female lays her all eggs in one spot, and then several males will fertilize them.  What I don't know is, does each male fertilize more than one batch of eggs?  And would one small male alone be able to fertilize a whole batch of eggs?

I don't think 11 fish is going to make or break the population, though, so you're probably good.  I'm pretty sure large numbers are a key part of their reproductive strategy.