Author Topic: So, somebody "falls through"...  (Read 10236 times)

Offline Neil McCauley

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So, somebody "falls through"...
« on: Jan 18, 2015, 02:13 PM »
What then? Assuming they get out...

Offline UFCreel

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #1 on: Jan 18, 2015, 02:41 PM »
Assuming they get out. Point and laugh at them! ::)
Flags up! Bobbers down!

Offline Chris338378

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18, 2015, 10:16 PM »
The danger at this point is hypothermia and it will set in fast.  They need to get to shelter, out of the wet clothes, dry off, and warm up.   Get them off the ice ASAP and while you're doing that call 911.  I'm sure someone will disagree with this but based on my experience which is having been with a volunteer fire department for twenty years and being certified in ice rescue, it's the right thing to do.  Hypothermia can and will kill you and it will set in much faster if you're wet.  Get them moving, the movement will help maintain their body temperature.  Once at shore get them into a vehicle and crank up the heat have them remove the outer layer of wet clothes, and wrap them in a blanket.  If you have warm NON-ALCOHOLIC drinks have them sip them, the warm drink will help stabilize their body temperature.  Again DO NOT give any ALCOHOL, it will be an issue with medicines that may need to be given at the hospital and beyond that it actually lowers the body temperature.  After the person who went through is with the emergency medical services try to leave some type of warning to others that there is unsafe ice to help prevent someone else from going through. 

Offline fireryfish

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #3 on: Jan 19, 2015, 10:38 AM »
I agree with Chris. Got to get them warmed up and dry hard to replace a fisherman

Offline fowl_language

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #4 on: Jan 29, 2015, 06:11 PM »
Tell them to remain calm, do not panic, do not risk drowning.  Let them stabilize and get themselves under control to keep their mind right.  If they have ice picks tell them to lay flat as possible and flop like a seal forward while pulling themselves onto the ice.  The flatter the better to get on top and then roll away from the ice.  DO NOT STAND UP until at least 20 yards back in the direction they came knowing that there is safe ice.

If they do not have ice picks tell them to remain calm, once calm you can approach with caution.  Have a rope with some type of float or buoy on it in your sled (easier to throw a rope with something attached) get it to them and tell them to secure it to themselves.  Tell them to lie flat and "seal" out the same way, once on top roll away from the ice again DO NOT STAND UP!

If you do not have a rope and they do not have picks but you have picks, approach flat as possible and slide picks to them with instructions on what to do.  The worst case scenario is now there are two people in the ice...approach with caution is an understatement, you want to be as far from the person as possible to help them get on top of strong ice.

Once they are out, start a fire if far away from somewhere.  If close to a rig, get them there and give them a change of clothes, or your own outer layers, crank the heat and assess the situation.  If they were there for a long time or have a pre-existing condition that cold weather is not good for, do not hesitate to call 911, keep them warm and do what Chris338378 posted below.  If you do not know the person or how long they have been struggling call 911 right away, it may cost them money but they will be glad it didn't cost them their life.

This is what I think based on emergency responder CPR training and watching/reading a lot of CG and ice safety information.  If I find myself in that situation this is what I would do, it is in no way a professional instruction on the situation.

Offline Swift

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #5 on: Jan 29, 2015, 09:35 PM »
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529131  Thoughts and prayers go out for the families

Offline fowl_language

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #6 on: Jan 31, 2015, 04:13 AM »
I read through that thread, very sad that must have been a very horrible feeling.  RIP Al, might be across the country but him and his family are in my thoughts.

Today I came up with a stronger and more compact buoy and rope system for my sled.  It's extremely hard to hear about all of the deaths this year, especially in the east where everyone has had such cold temps I thought there would be less people going through.

One of my buddies, buddy went through in his truck mid week this week in Wisconsin, he was able to get out because of shallow water, but even on 13-15" of ice, it doesn't mean that all of the ice is that thick or strong.  Remember to be cautious!

Offline Chris338378

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #7 on: Jan 31, 2015, 04:59 AM »
Clam sells a throw bag that has rope in it and would be a good investment.  The key to it is you have to be accurate with your throw, under hand is best - like you're throwing a bowling ball, and the person is above water.  If they are these work great since you don't have to get too close, just yell to them to hold the rope (the best thing is to have them wrap it around their back and hold both ends in front of them, then pull them out.  This is the first method we'd use with the fire department, second would be get something long, lay on the ice, slide it to them, have them hold onto it, and pull.  The last thing we'd do is send a guy out with a rescue suit on to go in the water with them.  No matter what we were doing we always have guys suiting up to go in just in case they had to go.  With any of these methods you have to communicate with the person in the water and try to get them to calm down  so they understand what you're going to do. 

Offline Alvin Richter

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #8 on: Jan 31, 2015, 10:17 PM »
what Chris said is the best advise . while on ice I also wear a life vest to help make float, never been in water (hopefully never will) but another safety feature to think about>

Offline slamer58

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #9 on: Feb 01, 2015, 11:18 AM »
I always have my kayak throw bag with me all season long....so far I have never had to use it.

Offline smoke_eater

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #10 on: Feb 15, 2015, 11:13 AM »
Here is a great video...
http://
Greatest quote ever "Whatcha going to do...fish your life away"...well hell yes!!!

Offline beeverfishing

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15, 2015, 11:25 AM »
I multi use my boat bumpers .. attach a rope and take it on the ice with me.. Never know when it might be needed..
  

Offline nicksmurf111

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #12 on: Feb 16, 2015, 11:21 AM »
I flipped a Canoe in mid 40 Degree F weather in a quarry during college.  I knew how to right-side up the canoe, so I did that and got back in.  I gathered everything that didn't sink (I lost my tackle box) and rowed to shore.  This was before Pennsylvania created the cold weather life jacket rule.  I'm pretty sure I wasn't wearing one.  My friends had heard the commotion from around the corner and told me to go inside the trailer.  I was all fine and dandy until that point.  I changed my clothes and sat in front of a wood stove.  Then I went into a chill and my fingers started turning blue.  NOT a pleasant experience, just about going into shock.  If it would have been any worse the property owner would have dialed 911.  While ice fishing, I would STRONGLY suggest dialing 911 immediately.

Offline slipperybob

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #13 on: Jun 28, 2015, 09:57 PM »
When I fell through, my buddies just asked, are you all right?
I said, no pull me up, I've fallen into someone's spear hole.
They were hesitant, cuz they didn't want to fall through.  I couldn't get out cuz my sled I was pulling behind my kind of slid forward and pinned me down from behind.  While my arms were holding my self on the edge of the ice.  Now they just laughed at me.  Yes add insult to injury.
For more information read my MN nice journal

Offline 1MOFISH

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #14 on: Jan 28, 2016, 02:49 PM »
i thought about it,then i fell in, the air temps was close to 50 degrees i rescued myself went to car and changed and resumed gathering up my stuff :o note polar bear club jumps in 33 degree rivers all the time then stand around? who knows.
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mo
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Offline don519

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #15 on: Jan 28, 2016, 06:21 PM »
I would call 911 first because if you go in trying to help your both in trouble then I would get my 50' of rope out with a slipknot already tied in the end I'm throwing to them with a float (boat bumper attached to the loop) and throw it past them and try to pull it to them while yelling for help to get the attention of homeowners and other fisherman while trying to drag them to good ice then start to try getting them warm while checking them for speech and motor functions to let EMS know his current conditions to help them prepare to give him immediate medical when they arrived

Offline Champlain Islander

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #16 on: Feb 03, 2016, 10:23 AM »
Yup first thing is call 911 no matter what. We saved a guy about 4 years ago. He went through and was hanging on the ice and had been in 20' of water for about 10 minutes before we could get to him crawling on our stomachs. I slid a sled to him and tied a long rope on it then once he got his arms and a shoulder hooked over the sled we crawled back onto safe ice and pulled him out. I had my AA flotation suit on which gave me a bit of courage and he wouldn't have made it if we waited for emergency people since we were in a rural area. It would have been hard to not try since he had just about exhausted himself trying to get out on his own.
Taught ice fishing for pan fish by one of the best...Art Rye may he RIP

Offline keithm87

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #17 on: Feb 22, 2016, 10:55 AM »
Someone here in VT went through in -20 last weekend on Champlain in his truck, made it out and got 100 yds. Search and rescue found him on the ice the next morning. Shock and hypothermia are the killers. Even after you are out the risk does not subside. You are wet and cold. That is why fishing alone is so dangerous.

Offline steeliebob

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #18 on: Oct 12, 2016, 10:01 AM »
Always carry extra warm dry clothes with you

Offline prosty41

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #19 on: Oct 12, 2016, 10:29 AM »
I fell in during the last trip of the season last year. Scary experience but after I was pulled out, I simply got into my hut where my heater was already blasting, stripped down to my underwear, and fished the day away while my clothes dried. 

Offline El Matador

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #20 on: Dec 11, 2016, 12:52 AM »
The most important thing to do right away is remain calm.  It really isn't that hard to get back on the ice, you just need a little bit of grip from ice picks, a rope, or even crusty snow.  Trying to get the victim to remain calm might be the hardest part.  A friend of mine went through the ice while duck hunting a few years back and I had no trouble pulling him out by his shotgun (unloaded of course).  I'm 180 lbs and he was around 300 at the time.  I always carry picks for myself but I plan to start carrying a good rope in case somebody else needs help.  It's a little spooky getting that close to somebody who has fallen in. 

Offline GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #21 on: Dec 11, 2016, 07:39 AM »
Everyone that's going to be on the ice should watch these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOW8ZaYqHA
You have a lot longer than most people think before hypothermia sets in.

Planning for safety and choosing the right apparel is your best bet for survival:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAwzPgRYOI
Surviving a fall through the ice is easy if you plan for it.

I have this suit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSxk-lkJPw
When worn properly water intrusion into the suit will be minimal. When you get out of the water any water that entered the suit will drain out as you walk and warm back up.

You can buy one of the suits here for a small fraction of the cost of a funeral:
https://www.idigear.com/idi-products/arctic-armor-products/suits.html
Very cheap life insurance!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline redneckdan

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #22 on: Dec 11, 2016, 09:30 AM »
First rule is be part of the solution not part of the problem.

If there is any possibility at all that emergency services will be neede, call them immediately. Better to turn them around then find you suddenly need them and they are 15 minutes away.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, call dispatch and let them know someone went through but they have been rescued. Give address and/or coordinates. They will probably send LEO to file a report on the incident. Do this in order to avoid some later passerby seeing your foot tracks and then a *Sploosh* mark and assuming you are still in there. Dispatch will know someone went through and will pass that info to the responding agencys. They will still respond to the passerby's call but at least they will have more information.

Offline GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #23 on: Dec 11, 2016, 08:34 PM »
First rule is be part of the solution not part of the problem.

If there is any possibility at all that emergency services will be neede, call them immediately. Better to turn them around then find you suddenly need them and they are 15 minutes away.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, call dispatch and let them know someone went through but they have been rescued. Give address and/or coordinates. They will probably send LEO to file a report on the incident. Do this in order to avoid some later passerby seeing your foot tracks and then a *Sploosh* mark and assuming you are still in there. Dispatch will know someone went through and will pass that info to the responding agencys. They will still respond to the passerby's call but at least they will have more information.

Yeah, I guess you should call 911 if it's some inbred knucklehead that been living in a cave that has fallen through the ice and hasn't heard than wearing a $15 PFD can save your life!!!

But wouldn't it be nice to let the 911 responders do their jobs and take care of more important things than some yahoo-idiot that has fallen through the ice without floatation? I mean really, you're on the ice and you've never heard that there is no such thing as safe ice? Are you from Mississippi or something???... or maybe Ohio?... Iowa? No sympathy for the ignorant!

If some yahoo has broken through without floatation and they're soaked to the bone, yeah, call 911! But these idiots should have to pay for the 911 responders time, which will many times more than a PFD or flotation suit. Get your hillbilly head out of your arse and protect yourself!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #24 on: Dec 12, 2016, 04:09 PM »
A life jacket won't help you against hypothermia then drowning, you'll end up face down in the water when you loose consciousness.  It probably will buy you time and should keep your head from going under but that's about it.   Personally I liked the insulation and padding when wearing a normal life jacket but felt like it limited my movement and could somehow make a situation worse.  Insulated/floating ice suits would be something I would take out every time if I could, it must be nice, being so privileged to afford one..   

It's people like you that get themselves into trouble out on the ice. You really should research the subject some more and educate yourself.

When a person goes through the ice into frigid water, their first reaction is an involuntary gasping for air. If your head is under the water when this happens your lungs fill with water and you drown. This happened to a father and his 4 yr. old son last year out ice fishing. The father was carrying his son back to shore and they went through the ice 10 feet from shore, they went down and never came back up. Their bodies were recovered 10 feet from shore in 10 feet of water. Had both of them been wearing PFDs they'd have bobbed back to the surface and made it back to shore or been easily rescued.

Hypothermia takes an hour or more to set-in, but cold water makes the muscles contract and cramp making id difficult to do the simplest tasks like tread water. The cramping and contracted muscles weaken the body, this takes place at about 10-15 minutes after immersion. If you don't have something to hold onto or keep you afloat you drown before hypothermia sets in. The majority of people that die after going through the ice, die of drowning and not hypothermia.

You can buy a thin lightweight PFD you can wear under your coat for $15-$20 and it will save your life. You don't have to be privileged to own a floatation suit, you just have to have your priorities right. There are lots of ice fishermen and women out there that have thousands of dollars worth of ice fishing equipment (snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, fish finders, portable shelters etc.) but consider paying $200-$300 for a floatation suit frivolous.

Here's the videos that show you what to do when you go through the ice, what you can do to save yourself, and how cold water affects the body:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOW8ZaYqHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAwzPgRYOI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1xohI3B4Uc

Watch them all and it should change your mind about wearing floatation out on the ice.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #25 on: Dec 13, 2016, 06:38 AM »
I would call the parents of the children that died negligent and have them brought up on charges if the state hasn't already done so.

Since you're on this site, that means you have internet access... so you can't be that poor. Like I said before, you don't have to be rich or privileged to be safe on the ice. You just have to have your priorities in order.

Heaven forbid you should ever go through the ice, but if you do, wishing you had protected yourself better and worn floatation may be one of your last thoughts... and that would be a really lousy way to go.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #26 on: Dec 15, 2016, 09:25 AM »

I put the links up to show that parents are to blame and thats exactly what I said......I have no money, at all, internet can be used free.....Read last years post in this article by me, I explain my experiences of falling through the ice on the first page...

We're all poor until we want or want to do something, then we find a way eh?!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline Kobey

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #27 on: Jan 21, 2017, 08:33 PM »
Today was an eye-opener.  I won't go on the ice unless there is 6" or more, so I've never seen anyone actually go all the way through.  But this morning we were setting up, on 6" of ice, and suddenly heard someone yelling for help.  A guy on a wheeler had driven too close to the feeder creek and gone in.  I was a ways away from there, but I could see him sitting on his wheeler with his head and part of his body above water.  Since there were a lot of people over there and he wasn't in deep water, I figured he would have plenty of help getting out, so I didn't head over immediately.

After a few minutes, I realized that no one over there had a rope or knew what to do, so I grabbed my tow strap and went to see if I could help.  When I got there, another guy had come from further away with a rope and was throwing it to the guy.  After a couple of tries, the guy was able to grab the rope and we dragged him out and onto safe ice.  But instead of standing up and shaking it off, the guy seemed to have passed out.  Someone came along with a sled and some people pulled him to the parking lot where the ambulance would arrive.

Now I'm second-guessing my and other peoples' decisions and actions.
 
1.  When I talked to someone later that had called 911, they said the operator told them to stay away and wait for the first responders to arrive.  Maybe that's why so many people were just standing around.  But I couldn't just ignore his cries for help.

2.  What if he sustained internal or other injuries when he went in?  Pulling him out and carting him on a sled could aggravate them.  Then again, he might not have lasted much longer in the water if he was injured, so if we waited he may not have been able to assist by grabbing the rope, since he passed out as soon as we got him out on safe ice.

I guess what I'm saying is I used to think in simple terms when it came to ice rescue.  You got them out, then you got them dry and warm.  Now I realize it can be a lot more complicated.  Maybe I should raise my minimum ice thickness limit to 10" so I'm less likely to encounter another situation like that.

Offline MT204

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #28 on: Jan 21, 2017, 08:57 PM »
Carry a throw bag or two depending how many people in your group.
If the person in the water has the throw bag it's no good.
Practice with it!
The fish aren't always biting have a little fun.
Make sure it even works.
https://www.amazon.com/Scotty-Throw-50-Feet-Floating-Rope/dp/B002BBK59C/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1485053620&sr=1-1&keywords=THROW+BAG
They are not that expensive and may save a life.

Offline Kobey

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #29 on: Jan 22, 2017, 09:31 AM »
You're right Whitefish.  If everyone there yesterday had had a basic rescue rope it would have been over fast.  I'm going to get one before I go out again.  Hopefully I'll never need it, but it will be nice to have it just in case.

I think it's also about time to upgrade to a flotation suit.

 



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