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Author Topic: So, somebody "falls through"...  (Read 4021 times)

El Matador

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #20 on: Dec 11, 2016, 12:52 AM »
The most important thing to do right away is remain calm.  It really isn't that hard to get back on the ice, you just need a little bit of grip from ice picks, a rope, or even crusty snow.  Trying to get the victim to remain calm might be the hardest part.  A friend of mine went through the ice while duck hunting a few years back and I had no trouble pulling him out by his shotgun (unloaded of course).  I'm 180 lbs and he was around 300 at the time.  I always carry picks for myself but I plan to start carrying a good rope in case somebody else needs help.  It's a little spooky getting that close to somebody who has fallen in. 

GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #21 on: Dec 11, 2016, 07:39 AM »
Everyone that's going to be on the ice should watch these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOW8ZaYqHA
You have a lot longer than most people think before hypothermia sets in.

Planning for safety and choosing the right apparel is your best bet for survival:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAwzPgRYOI
Surviving a fall through the ice is easy if you plan for it.

I have this suit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSxk-lkJPw
When worn properly water intrusion into the suit will be minimal. When you get out of the water any water that entered the suit will drain out as you walk and warm back up.

You can buy one of the suits here for a small fraction of the cost of a funeral:
https://www.idigear.com/idi-products/arctic-armor-products/suits.html
Very cheap life insurance!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


redneckdan

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #22 on: Dec 11, 2016, 09:30 AM »
First rule is be part of the solution not part of the problem.

If there is any possibility at all that emergency services will be neede, call them immediately. Better to turn them around then find you suddenly need them and they are 15 minutes away.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, call dispatch and let them know someone went through but they have been rescued. Give address and/or coordinates. They will probably send LEO to file a report on the incident. Do this in order to avoid some later passerby seeing your foot tracks and then a *Sploosh* mark and assuming you are still in there. Dispatch will know someone went through and will pass that info to the responding agencys. They will still respond to the passerby's call but at least they will have more information.

GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #23 on: Dec 11, 2016, 08:34 PM »
First rule is be part of the solution not part of the problem.

If there is any possibility at all that emergency services will be neede, call them immediately. Better to turn them around then find you suddenly need them and they are 15 minutes away.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, call dispatch and let them know someone went through but they have been rescued. Give address and/or coordinates. They will probably send LEO to file a report on the incident. Do this in order to avoid some later passerby seeing your foot tracks and then a *Sploosh* mark and assuming you are still in there. Dispatch will know someone went through and will pass that info to the responding agencys. They will still respond to the passerby's call but at least they will have more information.

Yeah, I guess you should call 911 if it's some inbred knucklehead that been living in a cave that has fallen through the ice and hasn't heard than wearing a $15 PFD can save your life!!!

But wouldn't it be nice to let the 911 responders do their jobs and take care of more important things than some yahoo-idiot that has fallen through the ice without floatation? I mean really, you're on the ice and you've never heard that there is no such thing as safe ice? Are you from Mississippi or something???... or maybe Ohio?... Iowa? No sympathy for the ignorant!

If some yahoo has broken through without floatation and they're soaked to the bone, yeah, call 911! But these idiots should have to pay for the 911 responders time, which will many times more than a PFD or flotation suit. Get your hillbilly head out of your arse and protect yourself!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #24 on: Dec 12, 2016, 04:09 PM »
A life jacket won't help you against hypothermia then drowning, you'll end up face down in the water when you loose consciousness.  It probably will buy you time and should keep your head from going under but that's about it.   Personally I liked the insulation and padding when wearing a normal life jacket but felt like it limited my movement and could somehow make a situation worse.  Insulated/floating ice suits would be something I would take out every time if I could, it must be nice, being so privileged to afford one..   

It's people like you that get themselves into trouble out on the ice. You really should research the subject some more and educate yourself.

When a person goes through the ice into frigid water, their first reaction is an involuntary gasping for air. If your head is under the water when this happens your lungs fill with water and you drown. This happened to a father and his 4 yr. old son last year out ice fishing. The father was carrying his son back to shore and they went through the ice 10 feet from shore, they went down and never came back up. Their bodies were recovered 10 feet from shore in 10 feet of water. Had both of them been wearing PFDs they'd have bobbed back to the surface and made it back to shore or been easily rescued.

Hypothermia takes an hour or more to set-in, but cold water makes the muscles contract and cramp making id difficult to do the simplest tasks like tread water. The cramping and contracted muscles weaken the body, this takes place at about 10-15 minutes after immersion. If you don't have something to hold onto or keep you afloat you drown before hypothermia sets in. The majority of people that die after going through the ice, die of drowning and not hypothermia.

You can buy a thin lightweight PFD you can wear under your coat for $15-$20 and it will save your life. You don't have to be privileged to own a floatation suit, you just have to have your priorities right. There are lots of ice fishermen and women out there that have thousands of dollars worth of ice fishing equipment (snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, fish finders, portable shelters etc.) but consider paying $200-$300 for a floatation suit frivolous.

Here's the videos that show you what to do when you go through the ice, what you can do to save yourself, and how cold water affects the body:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOW8ZaYqHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAwzPgRYOI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1xohI3B4Uc

Watch them all and it should change your mind about wearing floatation out on the ice.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #25 on: Dec 13, 2016, 06:38 AM »
I would call the parents of the children that died negligent and have them brought up on charges if the state hasn't already done so.

Since you're on this site, that means you have internet access... so you can't be that poor. Like I said before, you don't have to be rich or privileged to be safe on the ice. You just have to have your priorities in order.

Heaven forbid you should ever go through the ice, but if you do, wishing you had protected yourself better and worn floatation may be one of your last thoughts... and that would be a really lousy way to go.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


GCD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #26 on: Dec 15, 2016, 09:25 AM »

I put the links up to show that parents are to blame and thats exactly what I said......I have no money, at all, internet can be used free.....Read last years post in this article by me, I explain my experiences of falling through the ice on the first page...

We're all poor until we want or want to do something, then we find a way eh?!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Kobey

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #27 on: Jan 21, 2017, 08:33 PM »
Today was an eye-opener.  I won't go on the ice unless there is 6" or more, so I've never seen anyone actually go all the way through.  But this morning we were setting up, on 6" of ice, and suddenly heard someone yelling for help.  A guy on a wheeler had driven too close to the feeder creek and gone in.  I was a ways away from there, but I could see him sitting on his wheeler with his head and part of his body above water.  Since there were a lot of people over there and he wasn't in deep water, I figured he would have plenty of help getting out, so I didn't head over immediately.

After a few minutes, I realized that no one over there had a rope or knew what to do, so I grabbed my tow strap and went to see if I could help.  When I got there, another guy had come from further away with a rope and was throwing it to the guy.  After a couple of tries, the guy was able to grab the rope and we dragged him out and onto safe ice.  But instead of standing up and shaking it off, the guy seemed to have passed out.  Someone came along with a sled and some people pulled him to the parking lot where the ambulance would arrive.

Now I'm second-guessing my and other peoples' decisions and actions.
 
1.  When I talked to someone later that had called 911, they said the operator told them to stay away and wait for the first responders to arrive.  Maybe that's why so many people were just standing around.  But I couldn't just ignore his cries for help.

2.  What if he sustained internal or other injuries when he went in?  Pulling him out and carting him on a sled could aggravate them.  Then again, he might not have lasted much longer in the water if he was injured, so if we waited he may not have been able to assist by grabbing the rope, since he passed out as soon as we got him out on safe ice.

I guess what I'm saying is I used to think in simple terms when it came to ice rescue.  You got them out, then you got them dry and warm.  Now I realize it can be a lot more complicated.  Maybe I should raise my minimum ice thickness limit to 10" so I'm less likely to encounter another situation like that.

whitefishmt

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #28 on: Jan 21, 2017, 08:57 PM »
Carry a throw bag or two depending how many people in your group.
If the person in the water has the throw bag it's no good.
Practice with it!
The fish aren't always biting have a little fun.
Make sure it even works.
https://www.amazon.com/Scotty-Throw-50-Feet-Floating-Rope/dp/B002BBK59C/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1485053620&sr=1-1&keywords=THROW+BAG
They are not that expensive and may save a life.

Kobey

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #29 on: Jan 22, 2017, 09:31 AM »
You're right Whitefish.  If everyone there yesterday had had a basic rescue rope it would have been over fast.  I'm going to get one before I go out again.  Hopefully I'll never need it, but it will be nice to have it just in case.

I think it's also about time to upgrade to a flotation suit.

midwest_rodworks

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #30 on: Jan 23, 2017, 02:23 AM »
Best investment, I have made for hard water is a float suit.  I got the Anorakk brand, but any suit with flotation is great.
"Balance in all things"

NateD

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #31 on: Jan 26, 2017, 02:49 PM »
I have never seen anyone on the ice wearing a life jacket just to throw that out there.  I won't go out until 5 inches, but I still wear spikes and bought a striker ice suit because it makes me feel better.  Think I will get one of those throw bags now too after reading this thread.

esoxnepa

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Re: So, somebody "falls through"...
« Reply #32 on: Jan 27, 2017, 09:11 AM »
I have never seen anyone on the ice wearing a life jacket just to throw that out there.  ...

I started wearing mine, about 3 years ago, until I can buy a float suit.  Most of the time, I feel really foolish wearing a life jacket.  Around 2 weeks ago, I was fishing a new lake with a friend, and let him try spudding the initial ice.  So he started walking out.  I started to follow and hit the spud solid and got a small trickle of water coming up.  I stopped him and had him drill a hole, 3" of ice at most.  I never felt so happy to be wearing a life jacket as on the 30 foot walk back to shore. 

I know growing up, no one even thought to wear a life jacket on the ice from what I remember.  Now, until I get a float suit, I'll just suck up feeling a bit foolish with the extra safety if I'm wrong on the ice condition.

 

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