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Author Topic: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....  (Read 2813 times)

Offline nutinbutjiggin

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Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« on: Mar 27, 2014, 08:50 AM »
Here's a subject that might raise the blood pressure of a few folks.

I am wondering what the general consensus is pertaining to "State Record" fish caught on a tip up vs. a rod and reel. Not that it really matter as it pertains to me but I am asking from a general fair chase point of view. Keep in mind I do use tip ups on occasion and this thread is not meant to judge there merits.

What I am getting at is this: I know Montana's current state record walleye 17#+ was caught out of Tiber and as the story goes the guy was bank fishing in a "pink"? lawn chair. It seems the guy caught a lot of flak because of the fact that he was in a lawn chair......

The record that he beat prior to that that held for a lot of years was a 16#+ walleye caught on a tip up from Fort Peck. I never once heard any cracks about the fact that it was on a tip up not a rod and reel. 

Now personally even though I use tip ups occasionally I don't think it is quite right to be able to claim a state record fish using tip ups over a hand held rod and reel. To me its a night and day difference in the challenge and fair chase aspect.

AGAIN LET ME STATE: I am not anti tip up. What I am saying is for the purpose of claiming a state record title (as insignificant as this might seem to some and probably for good reason) it just does not seem to be fair to allow those state records to be counted when someone has 6 (and sometimes more) unattended tip ups out. At the very least it would seem to me there would be two categories of records much the same as there is with hunting with a rifle vs a bow.
Anyone else feel this way?

Offline cnelson

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #1 on: Mar 27, 2014, 08:58 AM »
I think when people use flashers or cameras ice fishing or fish finders(especially the new high-tech ones) on their boats is more of an advantage than someone dropping a tip up down a hole during the ice fishing season. I'm for whatever helps a guy out that's legal.

Offline fishinwithbrittanies

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #2 on: Mar 27, 2014, 12:23 PM »
Everyone fishing in Montana is allowed 6 tip ups.  I cant see where there is advantage.  As long as people are fishing within their legal restraints I don't see any unfair advantage.  I rarely use tip ups, just because they are a pain in the @$$ but it's still fishing.  I tip up in a bad spot is just as useless as a rod and reel.  As a guy who fishes tip ups a handful of times a year, I can't see where a tip up infringes the ethical boundary's of fair chase
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Offline Papa John

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #3 on: Mar 27, 2014, 06:05 PM »
Bo: Not everyone in Montana can use 6 tipups. West side is limited at two lines each and can not be unattended. Not that this is an issue on this topic, but regs vary on many issues across the state. As far as the topic as stated, hook and line is hook and line and that's far as state goes. I say tipups are fine. I have probably lost as many or more fish handline fishing as rod/reel. Splitting hairs here, what if is use an old version rod with nails to wind line on, no slip bobber, and hand-over-hand that fish to the ice? What if my reel jams and I have to pull one in? Lets not make mud soup out of clear water.

Offline Spud-bar

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #4 on: Mar 27, 2014, 07:20 PM »
It's part of fishing. Kind of like snagging paddlefish, kokanee salmon or spearing and bow fishing?

Offline shawdawg

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #5 on: Mar 27, 2014, 09:15 PM »
I love fishing tip-ups and don't think there is much better than chasing flags but the one rule I don't really care for is letting people leave them out all night.  I don't think it's all that sportsman like to leave a fish dangling all night long on a line...

Offline beershanty

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #6 on: Mar 27, 2014, 10:19 PM »
I do see the difference you are saying on the fair chase between hand lining and rod and reel but depending on your rod and reel setup and what you are fishing for you could rig your reel the same way as you would your tip up or use a jaw jacker and still fight the fish on rod and reel while it is counted as a tip up. Fighting big pike on with rod/reel with a steel leader, quickstrike rig and heavy braid is almost no differant than hand lining and depending on the weather conditions landing a big pike on rod and reel in a shanty with a heater could be easier than hand lining a fish on a tip up in 40 mph winds while its -10, you forgot your gloves in the shanty and the pike keeps running everytime he sees the hole. I guess if it is legally caught its fair to put it as a record in my opinion but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if there were a category for tip ups, either way if I caught a fish that big I wouldnt be worried about which record I had, I'd just be glad to have one! :icefish: :tipup:
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Offline Baconator

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #7 on: Mar 27, 2014, 10:40 PM »
This IS a volatile question-

I see no need to separate categories, legal fishing is just that, legal. Personally I can't stand trolling, way too boring for me. Set up your rod and drive your boat. Is that any less fishing than jigging? Casting? Tip-ups? Maybe and maybe not depending on your fishing preference. What about fishing for spawning trout? We could think of a million scenarios where one type of fishing has a perceived advantage over another.


The thing is, now more than ever ALL sportsmen need to stand up for each other and support the outdoor activities we all love. With the anti-trapping crap going on in this state, I'm hoping all of us outdoorsmen can overlook our differences and get on the same page to fight this attempt to take a part of our outdoor heritage and lifestyle. They say there's only 7000 trappers in the state, those 7000 votes might be what we need some day to save fishing or hunting. That Missoula group already has plans to go after hunting on public land as well, they may as well try for fishing too.

We need to think hard before outing one of our own, so for me, any legally caught fish is worthy of a record.

Offline Hydro

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #8 on: Mar 27, 2014, 10:57 PM »
I think as long as you are fishing legally using techniques allowed under MT fish and game regulations your fish should count as a state record.  Would I rather catch a state record with my fly rod than with a tip-up?  Definitely, because for me it would be more fun.  Am I going to give a guy a hard time because he caught a state record on a tip-up, in a pink chair, or with a method I judge to be "less desirable"?  Nope.  I'm going to sincerely congratulate him on his catch, let him fish the way he wants and continue fishing the way I prefer.

Offline fishinwithbrittanies

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #9 on: Mar 28, 2014, 08:43 AM »
okay I was wrong about the six tip ups thing.  Most times I'm fishing tip ups in in an area where your allowed six, my bad.  My point was just that everyone is on the same level so long as they are fishing legally.

Overnight sets MIGHT infringe on MY take on fair chase, yes.  I still do it though where allowed. 

hydro hit the nail on the head
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Offline Tacojuan

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #10 on: Mar 28, 2014, 11:10 AM »
Catching a fish on a tip up to me is no different than catching a fish on a bait rig. I've left my rod in all night just the same as I would a tip up. As long as it's a legal line with a hook and bait on it, it shouldn't make any difference. You've gotta play a big fish on rod and reel the same as you would a tip up or you could just horse it in and possibly loose it. And let's be honest here if you caught a state record fish on your tip up wouldn't you get it declared the record? Just my thoughts

Offline Born Late

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #11 on: Mar 28, 2014, 12:49 PM »
Like Papa John, I think I can safely say I've lost a higher percentage of fish on tip-ups than on a more forgiving and sensitive rod and reel setup so I see a record fish as no less of a trophy if caught on a tip-up...maybe even more of a trophy. 

Like Shawdog, record fish or not, I'm not a fan of setlines...which is what a tip-up becomes if you're not "in visual
contact" (e.g. you're asleep). If you and your buddies want to sleep in shifts and continue to check tip-ups all night, no problem. It just seems kinda lame (and maybe lethal to a fish) even if legal to leave a line in the water when you're not tending your gear. 
YOU are the only one who can decide if the ice is safe enough for you.

Offline Redneck Fishfinder

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #12 on: Mar 28, 2014, 01:06 PM »
I don't feel that way- hand-lining a large fish can be just as tough, if not tougher, than fighting it on rod and reel. I don't think there's any unfair advantage. Who is to judge how much challenge is required to be entitled to a record anyway? As long as the fishing methods were legal I think it should stand regardless of how it's caught. Besides- how can anyone feel like a rightful record holder if someone else caught a bigger fish? If someone is unhappy about how a person caught a record fish then they should break the record themselves in a manner that satisfies them.
   

Offline nutinbutjiggin

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #13 on: Mar 31, 2014, 06:11 PM »

"Like Shawdog, record fish or not, I'm not a fan of setlines...which is what a tip-up becomes if you're not "in visual
contact" (e.g. you're asleep). If you and your buddies want to sleep in shifts and continue to check tip-ups all night, no problem. It just seems kinda lame (and maybe lethal to a fish) even if legal to leave a line in the water when you're not tending your gear."


Exactly the rub for some of us about tip ups.
Tip ups do become set lines when left out over night and there is no skill required or even any effort when there left out over night. That's trapping not fishing.
Tip ups used properly and legally that's a different thing. But there is a lot of abuse to the rule. Blatant abuse. For proof just go to Fort Peck and take a night time drive on a 4 wheeler and see how many tip ups are out (a ton) and how many fisherman are out (usually 0).

Now put in the perspective of some guy showing up after daylight and checking multiple tip ups (setlines) that were left out over night and on one hangs a new state record dead as a door knob..... That's the same challenge as catching a state record on a rod and reel in your hand?
Really?
I say let them use the tip ups for harvest purposes but don't let anyone count a fish that's been caught on a set line for any kind of record.


Offline wirehairman

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #14 on: Mar 31, 2014, 09:19 PM »
Tip ups used properly and legally that's a different thing. But there is a lot of abuse to the rule. Blatant abuse. For proof just go to Fort Peck and take a night time drive on a 4 wheeler and see how many tip ups are out (a ton) and how many fisherman are out (usually 0).

You're welcome to your opinion on set lines, but it is perfectly legal.  From pages 75 and 76 of the fishing regs for the Eastern district.

Ice Fishing
Lakes, Reservoirs, Rivers and Streams
• 6 lines with 2 hooks per line through the ice. When a line is used through the ice, the angler need not be in immediate control but must be in the vicinity and in visual contact with the line unless they are used as setlines. See regulations for Setlines below.

Setlines
• Number of lines is the same as for Hook and Line Limits. Setlines may be used in all waters unless prohibited in the District Exceptions to Standard Regulations.
• Setlines (unattended lines) must be checked by the owner at least once every 24 hours.
• The angler’s name and phone number or name and 9/10-digit ALS# must be attached to each setline.

Offline beershanty

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #15 on: Mar 31, 2014, 10:06 PM »
what about tip downs?? they're way harder to catch fish on then tip ups.. honestly I really don't care bout this thread but I'm just putting the tip downs out there cuz it hasnt been mentioned.. this thread is stupid.. a legal  fish is a legal fish, end of story unless you or dec can prove otherwise,..caught at night or not, maybe dec should do a more thorough job of the bodies of water you are fishing...there will always be cheaters, you just gotta catch or out fish them
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Offline fishin7

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #16 on: Mar 31, 2014, 11:38 PM »
Quote
"Now put in the perspective of some guy showing up after daylight and checking multiple tip ups (setlines) that were left out over night and on one hangs a new state record dead as a door knob..... That's the same challenge as catching a state record on a rod and reel in your hand?
Really?"

I have never once brought in a dead fish in the morning after checking tip ups.  Just saying..... 

Like beershanty stated this thread is stupid, a legal fish is a legal fish.  I prefer using my flasher and jigging for my catch but that is just my preference.  But I also use tipups as well and yes I leave them suckers out there all night and do you want to know why....... cuss I can!!!  :o

Offline Lindy Rig

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #17 on: Apr 01, 2014, 08:43 AM »
Quote
Tip ups do become set lines when left out over night and there is no skill required or even any effort when there left out over night. That's trapping not fishing.


Don't say you have nothing against tip-ups, when you really do. And your beef is bigger than just the record aspect.

I don't like to shoot antelope with a .223, so I don't. Your call.

Topic seems to be created to keep this site active in the off-season. And we all fell for it.

Offline Born Late

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #18 on: Apr 01, 2014, 11:19 AM »
I agree.  Opinions are stupid.  Particularly those that differ from my own.  ;D
YOU are the only one who can decide if the ice is safe enough for you.

Offline jiggin365

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #19 on: Apr 09, 2014, 07:49 AM »
A catch is a catch.  As long as you are within the regulations, it should count towards the record.  You set the line, and you brought the fish in, bottom line.  But, I personally wouldn't mount a fish that I caught on a tip-up.  Speared? Yes, I would mount.  Personal decisions. 

Offline nutinbutjiggin

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #20 on: Apr 09, 2014, 08:56 AM »
But, I personally wouldn't mount a fish that I caught on a tip-up.  Speared? Yes, I would mount.  Personal decisions.

Interesting response and it begs the question.  Why would you not mount a fish that you caught on a tip up vs. rod and reel or as you mention a speared fish?

I certainly respect that it is a personnel decision but the bottom line to this thread is to discuss the sporting challenge between tip ups and rod and reel only as it pertains to angling records.
(Not as it pertains to the current regulations which I think we are all aware of.)
Maybe I am fishing here? ;).....but do you place a different set of sporting challenge between the two? Thanks

Offline Wenger

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #21 on: Sep 01, 2014, 05:23 PM »
I love fishing tip-ups and don't think there is much better than chasing flags but the one rule I don't really care for is letting people leave them out all night.  I don't think it's all that sportsman like to leave a fish dangling all night long on a line...

What I hate about the unattended tip ups on Peck are the guys that take up every point for miles with one or two and get pissed about someone setting up there.

Offline fishin7

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #22 on: Sep 04, 2014, 09:24 AM »
If it's just a couple tip-ups and not their ice camp, I will just set up right next to them, if it's a spot I want to fish.  Of course I keep enough distance to where we won't get tangled.  But there is so much shoreline on peck it usually isn't a problem. 

Offline nutinbutjiggin

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #23 on: Sep 04, 2014, 09:40 AM »
Gosh the temperature dipped into the 50s and Holy Cow were talking ice fishing again!!!


Offline missoulafish

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #24 on: Sep 04, 2014, 10:15 AM »
 :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :icefish:

Offline Chris338378

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #25 on: Sep 04, 2014, 10:40 AM »
I don't think it matters in the least when it comes to the record books but I think that it would be interesting to know for curiosity purposes.  I don't know if they even record what a fish was caught on here in Pennsylvania but now I'm curious.

Offline Montana89

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #26 on: Sep 04, 2014, 04:42 PM »
37 in Missoula last night. finally some cooler weather.

It's All Nice On Ice Alright

Offline MTangler

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Re: Tip Ups and a Volitile Question....
« Reply #27 on: Oct 30, 2014, 10:56 PM »
Whatever legal method that helps me catch more fish and have a good time doing it  ;D  Although if they said I could use dynamite I would probably still get skunked now and then haha.

I have always snickered at the guys who just "run" tip up lines at night. The go set 40 of them on their 4 wheelers and wake up and check them once in the middle of the night. Farming fish I call it… It seems like it would not be nearly as exciting to me and certainly not nearly as rewarding! I love watching for those damn flags to pop  ;D

MTA

 



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