To keep or not to keep

[sdhuntandfish]

You need a vast forage base to support walleye.  They would end the giant perch in Cascade for sure.

I totally and respectfully disagree here.  If anything, walleyes in Cascade would only IMPROVE the overall perch fishing. My $.02
If you look at most of the lakes in country that annually produce great perch fishing, you'll also find walleyes 90% of the time.

Perch and walleyes live very well together. Most of our lakes here in SD that pump out big perch are also lakes that have fantastic walleye fishing.

Cascade has lots of crayfish, TONS of fingerling perch, pikeminnow fry, emergent and aquatic insects (a large part of a walleyes diet) This is pretty vast if you ask me...

One thing I learned while living in Boise the past two years, is that Idahoans carry this stigma that walleyes are voracious eaters like northern pike. Again, not true. 

Andy

[sdhuntandfish]

Besides, who WOULD'NT want to ice some of these next to a nice pile of perch? 

[chummin]

Couldn't agree more about the benefit of a midsize predator like Walleye or Sauger. I would like to hear a biologist weigh in on this conversation and present a possible down side to this. Seems to be working pretty well for a lot of the great fisheries in Montana and North Dakota.

[bullpine]

You need a vast forage base to support walleye.  They would end the giant perch in Cascade for sure.

Well show me the pics of all the 15 plus inch perch from those lakes back there sdhuntandfish .  You cannot because the walleye and perch are in big competition there and the perch cannot quite make it to that size now do they.  Sure you get a few but they didn't win the Ice Shanty big fish contest year after year, Cascade did.

That said I would like to see walleye all over the place and we should feed them hatchery truck loads of white fleshed trout and let them eat the runt perch in those lakes with big enough forage.  Anyway just because you want walleye in Cascade and they might do well there doesn't mean the big perch will survive it.

[sdhuntandfish]

Relax. We're discussing a hypothetical situation that will never happen. 

The SD state record is 2-12. Caught out of Bitter Lake, which happens to be chock full of walleyes and big pike. The perch fishing is outstanding despite the heavy fishing pressure year after year...

The ND state record perch is 2-15. Caught out of Devils Lake. If you are unfamiliar with Devils, the lake is world renown for the fantastic walleye, huge pike, and white bass fishing.

Both of these Lakes receive more fishing pressure at any single access than the entire lake of Cascade sees all winter, yet year after year produce some of the best winter perch fishing in the nation both size and quantity.

I'm not saying that Cascade needs walleyes or that they should even consider putting them in there. I just get tired of the same "walleyes will ruin everything"  typical Idahoan statements not based on facts or science.

I think we can all agree that Cascade is a special fishery. I'll be back out next weekend, maybe see some of you out there. 

[fishandchips]

Well show me the pics of all the 15 plus inch perch from those lakes back there sdhuntandfish .  You cannot because the walleye and perch are in big competition there and the perch cannot quite make it to that size now do they.  Sure you get a few but they didn't win the Ice Shanty big fish contest year after year, Cascade did.

Minnesota state record perch is 3lb 4oz caught in the same lake where we have caught walleyes up to 31 inches.  Most of our big walleye fisheries in Northern MN where I'm from have huge perch and have more pressure than Cascade.  That being said, we really don't care about perch when walleyes are an option. 



 

[chummin]

"Well show me the pics of all the 15 plus inch perch from those lakes back there sdhuntandfish .  You cannot because the walleye and perch are in big competition there and the perch cannot quite make it to that size now do they.  Sure you get a few but they didn't win the Ice Shanty big fish contest year after year, Cascade did."

As mentioned, google Devils Lake Perch. The walleye (and Northern) don't seem to be eating the perch out of that lake by any stretch.   I have family in Bismarck and the Perch pictures they send every ice season (from many different lakes, including Devils) are impressive. They don't catch a ton of  2+ pounders, but they catch an awful lot between 1 and 2 pounds.
I understand that comparing Cascade to Devils is not exactly apples to apples, but someone has yet to provide a scientific reason for any "walleye fear" when it comes to a healthy perch population.

[fowl_language]

Devils lake, ND:



Lake Onalaska, WI:



Leech Lake, MN:



This was a quick internet search, all photos of people are already available online, and I took their word for it when the caption said they caught them there.  We can always trust the internet right?

[hugeinchina]

Nicely done.

[Bigggcountry]

I didn't really want to get into the debate, but the "walleye capital of the world" Lake Erie has some of the best jumbo perch fishing I have ever seen. The biggest perch I have ever caught have have came out of there. If you have never seen a perch inhale a 4"bass tube with a 4/0 hook and you still have room to lip the perch it's quite a sight. I understand the forage base is a lot different, but both perch and walleye spawn around the same time. So every spring there would be a ton of fry and fingerlings for the larger predators to eat.

[bullpine]

Okay you win.  I throw in the bucket,  I mean the towel.

[bowhunter68]

[sdhuntandfish]

Stay away creepy asian man!   

[bowhunter68]

Better bring ur waders we may get wet...bring some walleye fillets for your buddy...

[missoulafish]

Check out what the walleye did to the perch fishing in Canyon Ferry. The are implementing a 10 fish limit on perch this year.
There are likely other factors at play but the extra mouths are the primary culprit.

[sdhuntandfish]

Check out what the walleye did to the perch fishing in Canyon Ferry. The are implementing a 10 fish limit on perch this year.
There are likely other factors at play but the extra mouths are the primary culprit.

It's widely known that young perch represent a large part of a walleyes diet, that is a fact. I just got done reading a half a dozen articles about Canyon Ferry's perch situation. After reading, it sounds to me like they aren't sure exactly what is going on and (maybe for good reason) walleyes are the easy scapegoat for the DNR (Columbia River salmon smolts anyone?)

Other reasons that the perch could be on decline- Northern pike are present in Canyon Ferry and are growing to giant sizes. Pike up to 25-30 pounds were found in sample nets and the numbers are growing. Another interesting fact is that the ever increasing fluctuation in water levels has left valueable habitat/cover for young perch high and dry when they most need it.

Other experts contend that perch go through boom and bust cycles. They feel that the perch numbers will eventually rise out of the slump. Cascade has seen this even without predation from pike and walleyes.

I also read that although the overall number of perch in the lake has decreased during the last ten years, the size of the remaining perch population has gone up significantly leaving nicer perch for anglers to harvest.

Additionally, the presence of walleyes in Canyon Ferry has improved the local economy of the area. People are towing boats from ND, SD, MN, IA, NE, WY etc to fish walleyes in Montana. They bring with them dollars that benefit hotels, restaurants, gas stations, bait shops, and other local stores/services. I can tell you that perch fisherman don't pack hotels with $50-$80,000 Ranger 620s and Lunds. The walleye guys are doing that along with their out of state/out of area wallets.

Look, I think something we are forgetting here is that we are debating a situation that will NEVER happen. Idaho is and always will be a trout/salmon/steelhead state. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's just not for me.

[sdhuntandfish]

"Seemingly overnight, Canyon Ferry became Montana’s hot walleye destination, drawing anglers from across the state and as far away as Min­nesota and Ohio."

Quote from an article I read.

I'll make no argument that I'm biased. I'm a walleye guy in the blood. 

[missoulafish]

Pike are rare at best in CF, and yes, big perch are great to catch but they don't live forever. We need some recruitment. I like walleye as well but I'm a little bit cautious in thinking walleye will not harm Cascade....who knows though?

[AverysAdventure]

Has there ever been a lake in Idaho that has been over fished in regards to perch?  Never heard of one myself.  I've only heard of lakes that have over populated and have stunted perch.  Figured the pike would have changed the chain lakes but no they are still full of stunted perch.  The walleye haven't put a dent in the perch at sfcr.  Does anyone know of a lake in ID that has been negatively affected by the over harvest of perch?  I can't think of one but I can name dozens that have suffered from over populated and stunted fish.  I'm starting to think the best thing we can do to preserve the jumbo's in Cascade is to harvest every perch we can.  Thoughts? 

[Squarehog]

    I know that the fish in Cascade are getting big eating small perch.  Almost every trout we Caught Friday had like 10-30 large perch minnows in them.  Lots of the fish including the big perch were spitting up perch minnows.  Ive seen that all year. I bet there are thousands of   "new state record" perch in that lake right now.   They got rid of a lot of the Squawfish,  That was a big problem there.  I personally don't think us "fisherman" even put a dent in the Perch Population in Cascade anyway.  That lake is huge and there are perch everywhere! From some of the info Ive gathered,  Cascade is actually underfished!  so lets keep it that way! I know for a fact that crappie cycle through the years almost kind of like rabbit or rodent overpopulation.  Its just mothers natures food chain sometimes.    Hopefully the fishing stays good for those Jumbos for a long time.  Fish and Game seems to be doing a good job with that lake.       Thats my 2 cents.

[Duck-Slayer]

Has there ever been a lake in Idaho that has been over fished in regards to perch?  Never heard of one myself.  I've only heard of lakes that have over populated and have stunted perch.  Figured the pike would have changed the chain lakes but no they are still full of stunted perch.  The walleye haven't put a dent in the perch at sfcr.  Does anyone know of a lake in ID that has been negatively affected by the over harvest of perch?  I can't think of one but I can name dozens that have suffered from over populated and stunted fish.  I'm starting to think the best thing we can do to preserve the jumbo's in Cascade is to harvest every perch we can.  Thoughts?

I personally keep everything for that reason that are under 14", that is the best I can do as a fisherman, help take out some of the competition for food and put the big one's back too eat more little perch, that's how I see it, I just wish more fisherman would do the same,
Matt

[bullpine]

Idaho Fish and Game response:

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/media/viewNewsRelease.cfm?newsID=7025

[MNiceman]

Ok, so I have literally read all the comments on 9 pages and its time for my 2 cents. 

 We Idahoans have a great fishery and we want to keep it great.  Cascade has the possibility to take off like Devils Lake.  Do we want it to be that big?  Some would say yes for the tourism it would bring to Cascade.  Some would say no because this is the gem state and its our diamond in the rough. 

So we are catching perch that are straight up huge, and we want to keep it that way from what Im gathering.  Several comments are saying keep the smaller perch in the 10-14" range.  But if you do that you are removing and entire class of fish which would leave you with hogs and minnows basically.  I say keep the hogs and take a couple of the smaller ones home.  Dont fill your freezer with fish. Take what you can for you and your family.  The freezer fillers are the lake killers.  I grew up in Minnesota and have seen this happen way to many times, with Perch on Lake Plantangenet (they were catching 3 lb +) and the crappies on Red Lake (the schools were so large that they could be seen from planes as they flew over, thats a fact not rumor)  within a matter of years both of these lakes were desomated.  Now the fishing out here is different  I will give it that we can't drive trucks on our ice and put a house wherever we want and the Idaho population is much smaller. 

Also to all the comments worring about the trout, saying that perch are an invasive species.  Wouldnt a dam be considered "invasive" we have cold water fish in a warm body of water.  I know this will always be a hot topic in idaho.  We love our trout.  Really we dump a lot of money putting a fish in a body of water that was built by us not for them when they should be swimming in a stream.  Again just my 2 cents. 

Has anyone ever considered a slot limit?  Like say 7 fish under 12', and 2 over 15".  Anything caught between 12"-15" goes back.  Minnesota has this with their walleye which is a cousin of the perch and they do not have walleye fisheries  they sustane themselfs just fine.  Also the slot limit they have for walleyes are the most egg producing size.

Again this is all opinion.  I would love to see Cascade continue on its path and want to take my kids there when they are old enough and go catch some hogs with them and not have to tell them stories of when we used to catch them.

Keep your stick on the ice
MNiceman

[chasdc1]

x2

[Duck-Slayer]

This is an interesting listen, I listened too it all, it does pertain too perch because they are a predatory fish.... and MNiceman, you will never take out a whole age class of fish, especially perch.... not sure where you got that.... and according too the PondBoss you need a very aggressive slot limit too consistently produce large fish and yes you do need the genetics, this guys a professional, not all fish have the "juice" too get big, so harvest the nice fish and let the big one's go,
Matt

http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/bass-fishing-fish-biology.html