Ethanol gas vs non ethanol gas

[jopes]

Just wondering for those who have ran both in their augers do they actually see a difference, or are they thinking there is a difference?

[Fishrmn]

It's not the running that causes problems.  It's the storage.



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[jeffro9023]

Yup x2.......pure-gas.org.   gives a listing of nonethanol gas suppliers in your area...ethanol starts breaking down within weeks of purchase...youll pay a few more cents per gallon but the piece of mind is priceless

[blufloyd]

Get the premix in the quart can....

[ALMA0930]

http://www.vp-sef.com/  try it ...you will like it

[icefishman]

I was told by a chainsaw repair shop that gas mixed with ethanol is eating up fuel lines also!

[Whopper Stopper]

Two buddies have small engine shops. Both say over the last few years installing carb kits is the number one thing they find themselves doing. Both give full credit to the crappy gas people put in their small engines.

                   WS

[H82LUZ]

Just use a little Startron to prevent the phase separation and you'll be fine and a WHOLE lot cheaper that any premix fuel or other thing you can put in the tank. You can find it at most auto parts stores Lowes and Home Depot. Put it away with that in the tank AFTER running it for a few minutes, and you WILL NOT have any issues. I run it in all my stuff.

[FullTmeDad]

Sears and Home Depot both sell the high performance gas in quart cans. I pulled the jiffy out of the shed last week and it started on the second pull. Plus it's easier (and safer) to bring a quart container along in the sled.

[H82LUZ]

Sears and Home Depot both sell the high performance gas in quart cans. I pulled the jiffy out of the shed last week and it started on the second pull. Plus it's easier (and safer) to bring a quart container along in the sled.

Its no less combustible than fuel. So I fail to see how "Safer" it is. Just if yours tips over, not only do you have a mess, you're out of fuel.  I myself don't have the problem with a 1lb. propane container on the from of a quad.

[FullTmeDad]

Its no less combustible than fuel. So I fail to see how "Safer" it is. Just if yours tips over, not only do you have a mess, you're out of fuel.  I myself don't have the problem with a 1lb. propane container on the from of a quad.

Safer in that a sealed metal quart container that can't spill is safer than a plastic gas can. And the discussion is about ethanol vs non.....not propane. (I agree, propane is "wicked pissah")

[H82LUZ]

This is true, what do you pay for a quart of that fuel. The large bottle of the Startron is about $5 or $6 and it treats 270 gallons of fuel. You can also get smaller bottles to fit into the back of a sled or small compartment. Truthfully, you're just as apt to have an accident with a metal quart container as a plastic one. They need to be opened at some point. So why not just have a one gallon can one hand with Startron. I think we're all big boys here and use an ounce of caution when it comes to fuel. Yes? As a master tech I know I do. JMO.

[Fishmon]

If you can get the no-ethanol gas, do it.  Ethanol gas also eats your fuel lines.  You can see evidence of this in the online fuel filters (boats).  Just remove them and dump them out into a clear jar.  You will likely see tiny black particles on bottom of jar which are coming from inside your fuel lines.  I run non-ethanol gas in all my small engines and boat.  The additives are good, but are only a preventative measure (fuel separation).  Hit the nail on the head and get some non-ethanol gas for your small engines.   My stuff runs like it was new and difference in boat was amazing.  Anything that sits for a while is prone to separation when using ethanol gas.  Your car or truck is used virtually every day and is not as vulnerable to this happening. 

[H82LUZ]

If you can get the no-ethanol gas, do it.  Ethanol gas also eats your fuel lines.  You can see evidence of this in the online fuel filters (boats).  Just remove them and dump them out into a clear jar.  You will likely see tiny black particles on bottom of jar which are coming from inside your fuel lines.  I run non-ethanol gas in all my small engines and boat.  The additives are good, but are only a preventative measure (fuel separation).  Hit the nail on the head and get some non-ethanol gas for your small engines.   My stuff runs like it was new and difference in boat was amazing.  Anything that sits for a while is prone to separation when using ethanol gas.  Your car or truck is used virtually every day and is not as vulnerable to this happening.

The Startron will prevent the fuel line issue as well. Case in point. My lawn mower, snowblower, weed wacker, chain saw AND my boat are all on original fuel lines! So if the ethanol is eating fuel lines its strictly due to poor maintenance. The Startron prevents the ethanol from absorbing moisture and sinking, hence separating from the fuel due to it being heavier than the fuel. If it sits in a fuel line separated, than yes, it WILL eat a fuel line. Poor maintenance. Startron keeps the moisture suspended in the fuel. What did you use to put in your tanks back in the old days folks, gas line antifreeze? Yeah, pure ethanol. Absorbs moisture. Waste your fuel driving around looking for non-ethanol fuels, but in the long run there will be non. What are you going to do then. $6 fixes your issues and for added protection I would recommend a little Stabill over the storage period to keep the fuel fresh. Run it for 10-15 minutes and you'll be all set come the next season. AND no fuel line replacements in the future. But hey, what the heck do I know. I only fix $60,000 cars for a living. Good luck out there and tight lines. I'm done.

Pat

[jethro]

I use Startron in my sleds, my motorcycle, and most of my small engines, but I use the Tru-Fuel you can buy at Home Depot for $5 a liter. Expensive gas, but honestly, the biggest reason I do this is for the container it comes in. It's in a metal can with a safety cap, it can't spill at all and just becomes part of my field kit. Surprisingly the entire can fits in an empty Jiffy 30 gas tank. Fills it perfectly. I fish every weekend, usually both days and I don't think I go through more than 2 tanks in an entire season.

[Lrains]

I rememeber putting Heat in my old Chevy years ago.. Havent done it since...

[Firefightertom32]

I'm running white gas ( Coleman fuel ) in anything 2 stroke. It's more expensive but its cleaner, burns hotter, no carbon build up on the heads, and there is no worries about storage.

[H82LUZ]

I'm running white gas ( Coleman fuel ) in anything 2 stroke. It's more expensive but its cleaner, burns hotter, no carbon build up on the heads, and there is no worries about storage.

How long have you done that for???

[cold_feet]

The Startron will prevent the fuel line issue as well. Case in point. My lawn mower, snowblower, weed wacker, chain saw AND my boat are all on original fuel lines! So if the ethanol is eating fuel lines its strictly due to poor maintenance. The Startron prevents the ethanol from absorbing moisture and sinking, hence separating from the fuel due to it being heavier than the fuel. If it sits in a fuel line separated, than yes, it WILL eat a fuel line. Poor maintenance. Startron keeps the moisture suspended in the fuel. What did you use to put in your tanks back in the old days folks, gas line antifreeze? Yeah, pure ethanol. Absorbs moisture. Waste your fuel driving around looking for non-ethanol fuels, but in the long run there will be non. What are you going to do then. $6 fixes your issues and for added protection I would recommend a little Stabill over the storage period to keep the fuel fresh. Run it for 10-15 minutes and you'll be all set come the next season. AND no fuel line replacements in the future. But hey, what the heck do I know. I only fix $60,000 cars for a living. Good luck out there and tight lines. I'm done.

Pat

Not so fast  with these statements.  Fuel lines of days gone by were made to resist gasoline. when they added Ethanol the neoprene could not repel its effects and the line deteriorated.  Fuel lines now are made to hold up to at least 15% ethanol. Even the rebuild kits for the Walbro carbs state do not run  engine on fuels with higher Ethanol than 15% .  To prove my point try setting the needle from a Walbro carb into a glass of ethanol and see how well it no longer seats inside the carb or even moves freely. Then soak a old diaphragm and watch how it deforms because of the ethanol effects. I know this because I rebuilt more 2 stroke carbs and replaced more fuel lines than Carter has Liver pills  The second mistake you said is dry gas is Ethanol?? Try Isopropyl alcohol. Two totally different beasts one absorbs water and allows it to separate when sitting and the second encapsulates moister allowing it to be burned off.    I got 3 stations right close by here who sells Non Ethanol fuel How do I know? because I test it with a litmus strip I purchased. 

Try using this site for your state and purchase a fuel that can be treated and will not harm the 2 stroke carbs

http://pure-gas.org/

[spam]

My good friend is a small mechanics guy he always tells me gas is the number 1 problem of all his repairs.... He states that any gas should only have a shelf life of 30-40 days!

[H82LUZ]

Not so fast  with these statements.  Fuel lines of days gone by were made to resist gasoline. when they added Ethanol the neoprene could not repel its effects and the line deteriorated.  Fuel lines now are made to hold up to at least 15% ethanol. Even the rebuild kits for the Walbro carbs state do not run  engine on fuels with higher Ethanol than 15% .  To prove my point try setting the needle from a Walbro carb into a glass of ethanol and see how well it no longer seats inside the carb or even moves freely. Then soak a old diaphragm and watch how it deforms because of the ethanol effects. I know this because I rebuilt more 2 stroke carbs and replaced more fuel lines than Carter has Liver pills  The second mistake you said is dry gas is Ethanol?? Try Isopropyl alcohol. Two totally different beasts one absorbs water and allows it to separate when sitting and the second encapsulates moister allowing it to be burned off.    I got 3 stations right close by here who sells Non Ethanol fuel How do I know? because I test it with a litmus strip I purchased. 

Try using this site for your state and purchase a fuel that can be treated and will not harm the 2 stroke carbs

http://pure-gas.org/

1. I have (2) 04 Skidoo sleds on original carbs and fuel lines, so again. I'm holding back to my statement of poor maintenance. Period. (Those sleds will still have them long after Carter is sucking dirt)
2. I have looked for non-ethanol in MY state and WE do not have it. From what I've found anyways. Plus, I drive diesel, so It makes no difference to me for the furl I have to buy a year.
3. I said "back in the OLD days." You are correct that the stuff today, Isopropyl, and you are also correct in that their properties are different. Aside from the fact that they are both alcohol based.

Now, I ask you to treat that same fuel with the Startron, put your What ever in the jar. EVEN THOUGH you have NOT removed the ethanol. You HAVE keep it suspended in the fuel. Keeping the 10-15% diluted in the fuel as it should be. Remember. There's more fuel than ethanol. 15% in a fuel line is not going to rot a fuel line PROVIDED the ethanol is suspended and NOT sitting in one spot. PROVEN! Why do you think they tell you to shake your tank if it has sat for more than a week or so. I stir up the ethanol that has absorbed the moisture in the air and sunk to the bottom of the tank. I to have done a fair amount of carb rebuilds. And its not the green varnish that does in the carbs anymore. It's the white oxidization from the WATER that sat in the carb, that was absorbed by the ethanol, that evaporated before the moisture to oxidize the carb. Anything else?!

[Firefightertom32]

How long have you done that for???

Started this spring.

[Purple Floyd]

So if you buy non ethanol gas, what are you doing to prevent your fuel lines from freezing due to the wster that gets into the gas? Aside from the fuel line situation ethanol doesnt add water to the fuel, it merely locks it up once it is in there. If you have phase separation then you have a condensation issue and going with non ethanol is only going to mean that the water will concentrate in one area and freeze which is why prior to ethanol everyone added heat in the winter,which is just another form of alcohol that serves the same purpose.

[H82LUZ]

Started this spring.

That's interesting, pricey, but interesting. I suppose if you only use a gallon a year it's not that bad then. I looked at the properties and your on the right track because it is petroleum based and they say 55 octane. Do you still mix the same ratio? My only concern would be with the hotter burning temp and aluminum piston how it would hold up.

[H82LUZ]

So if you buy non ethanol gas, what are you doing to prevent your fuel lines from freezing due to the wster that gets into the gas? Aside from the fuel line situation ethanol doesnt add water to the fuel, it merely locks it up once it is in there. If you have phase separation then you have a condensation issue and going with non ethanol is only going to mean that the water will concentrate in one area and freeze which is why prior to ethanol everyone added heat in the winter,which is just another form of alcohol that serves the same purpose.

 Isopropyl to prevent fuel lines from freezing.

[filetandrelease]

when I was running  E- fuel I put startron and marine stabil in, and my 11 year old sled sold it to a bud and he took the carbs apart and they were spotless and my marine mechanic told me to the same thing about my boat motor which one is a 250 four stroke and a 9.9 kicker , lawn mowers , weed eaters and so on got the same treatment all ran just fine and left fuel in until the season arrived to run again, in the last 2 years we now can get NON-E , in 91 octane and everything gets it and I can see a difference , runs just a little bit better JMO

[jethro]

I think there is more bad to the gas today than just the e-10. Here in Merrimack County NH we have been forced to use e-10 fuel for at least 10 years. For the first 5-7 years I had absolutely no issues. The gauge was my motorcycle... I am a weekend warrior and in the past 10 years fishing has become more important than motorcycling, so there are often times my bike will sit for a month or so without being ridden. Well about 5 years ago I started noticing that my bike would run like absolute garbage until I got a new tank of gas. It got so bad that I would make it part of my pre-ride routine to siphon all the gas and use a can to fill it with fresh. That's when I started using Startron, which worked well for a few years, but now, it doesn't matter what I use- Startron, Marine Stabil (never the red, it's alcohol based and can compound the issue), Seafoam... I tried them all and even with it my fuel injected, 150 horsepower 1000cc Yamaha still runs like crap until I get a fresh tank. And this year something else happened that raised my eyebrows- I use Startron in my snowmobile every single fill up. It's on the sled at all times in the storage compartment. Well this year, trying to get my sled started and it ran like crap. Obviously the fuel sat for about 7 months, but it always does and in previous years it wasn't a problem. Well I siphoned it out and could see the blobs of separated gas in the clear siphon line. I didn't think it was that bad, so I threw it in my truck because it can usually burn anything, but even my truck wouldn't burn it. I guess I can't rule out that actual water got into the tank, but I don't think so. I just think the quality of the gas is getting worse independent of the ethanol.

[Chas0218]

I use ethanol all the time in my small engines, I just make sure to run the carb dry at the end of the season and haven't had any issues in 3 years. I also treat my 2 gallons of mixed with sta-bil to keep the gas because I also use it in my chainsaw and weed whacker.  There are a lot of misconceptions about ethanol gas the one I like the most is that it will absorb water which couldn't be further from the truth. It doesn't absorb water any more than gasoline.

[bobberbill]

My Stihl manuals recommend 89 octane gas. I use 89, a little seafoam, in all my 2cycle stuff. Seems to be pretty reliable in all the stuff I have. Stabil in the reserve containers.

[eriksat1]

I run the non ethanol, but we can only get it in premium 91 octane. I know the high octane 91 is more for high compression engines, but I think the no ethanol is worth it. The oil I use already has gas stablizer in it.
I know the Jiffy manual says to only run regular unleaded.