Lets Clear the Air... New Jiffys

[Skipper]

At the St. Paul Ice Fishing show I had the opportunity to get the story on the new Jiffy ice augers. I had many of my questions answered and was able to put some of the rumors to bed. In the interest of fairness to Jiffy and the benefit of knowledge to our members, I took some pics and got the real story. The source of all this information is Mr. Brent Tommerdahl, a rep from Jiffy.

The new engines are truly made for Jiffy. These engines were designed by Feldman engineering and developed over the last four years. Jiffy had questions about the ability of Tecumseh to continue to meet EPA guidelines and began their search for a new power head. They felt it was best to develop their own engine to prevent issues with the availability of parts and manufacturing processes. The engines is made in China for jiffy. The engines are then shipped to the United States to be joined with an American made gear case and clutch system.

Rumor: Jiffy is using fiber or plastic gears.

Truth: All gears are made of metal along with the clutch system. I saw them with my own eyes and took a few pics.



This is a see through model of the 3500 gear case. It is plain to see that all internal components are made of metal, no fiber or composite gears. The gear case is made of plastic, and the metal roller bearings are pressed into it. Mr Tommerdahl said that they have less service issues with the composite case 3500 unit than the metal 2500 case. I saw the insides of a 2500 gearcase also and there were no plastic or composite gears in there either.

Rumor: The gear cases howl and growl.

Truth This is a fact. Mr. Tommerdahl started a model 3500 in the loading dock of the River Center and gave it some juice. There was some gear noise, but it wasn't as crazy as you would believe. It was noticeable, but Mr Tommerdahl said that it will fade after the first few hours of use. I cannot say for sure that this is true, but Brent seemed like an honest guy and I am going to take his word for it.

Rumor The engine is Chinese.

Truth This is also a fact. The engine is manufactured in china to Feldman Engineering's specs. This particular engine has a 50 hr EPA durability rating and a 1 year warranty. All parts for this auger are stocked by Jiffy and they swore that there would be no issues with availability of service or repair parts.
 
Rumor: They start hard and are noisy.

Truth This is absolutely false. Brent Tommerdahl had an ice cold 3500 out in the dock waiting for me this morning. He primed it, choked it, and it was running in three pulls. It was VERY quiet compared to my older model Jiffy drill.



Rumor The starting rope is very short.

Truth: It is what it is, and it seems pretty short. It caused no problems with the augers ability to start.

If you guys have any other questions I would be happy to help. You can also contact Brent Tommerdahl from Jiffy.

[Wiener]

Skipper,

I also talked to Brent after I stopped by the IS booth.

He was very informative, and wanted to dispel any and all rumors regarding durability / reliability.

Just to clarify,
The 50 hours is not the life of the engine, it is the guaranteed amount of time that the engine will meet EPA guidelines.


It was good to meet you at the show, and thanks for the hard work.


Wiener

[Skipper]

Yes, that is exacty what that rating is. Small engines are given a rating of the minimum run time that they will meet epa spec before they begin to degrade in performance. All small engines are rated this way.


It is not saying that it will die in 50 hrs, it is just a guideline. Proper maintenance and lubrication goes a long way.

[RickWakeman]

After it stops meeting EPA guidelines, it is not illegal to use right?

[Forester]

Skipper, Am I going to void the warranty running the Amsoil Sabre oil at a 50:1 ratio. I know they recommend their own oil.

[icejunky]

thanx for the review/update...for those of us Jiffy users who did not get the opportunity to see this up close and personal

[Skipper]

After it stops meeting EPA guidelines, it is not illegal to use right?

Nope, you can legaly use it as long as you can make it run. How could the EPA tell how many hours your auger has run anyway?!

[Skipper]

Skipper, Am I going to void the warranty running the Amsoil Sabre oil at a 50:1 ratio. I know they recommend their own oil.

That would be a question for jiffy.

[FISHFORPIKE]

Another thank you Skipper.  Good job on the review and pics.  Did ya get any feedback on the apparent shortcomings?  Like were they inclined to make any changes?  The starter rope?  It may be short and it may not affect the ability to start the auger; but -- if it is short and you "yank" it out or break it, it affect the stating ability.  If the gear case noise is not bad and it lessens over a short time, then I would be inclined to think they could take care of the noise in the manufacturing process.

Thanks again for doing this report.

[Skipper]

Another thank you Skipper.  Good job on the review and pics.  Did ya get any feedback on the apparent shortcomings?  Like were they inclined to make any changes?  The starter rope?  It may be short and it may not affect the ability to start the auger; but -- if it is short and you "yank" it out or break it, it affect the stating ability.  If the gear case noise is not bad and it lessens over a short time, then I would be inclined to think they could take care of the noise in the manufacturing process.

Thanks again for do this report.

I spoke with 2 of the engineers on Friday and they told me that they researched and engineered the problems out of it already. They are very confident in this unit and I do not think they plan to modify it. They said it was "thoroughly tested and ready for market".

[dkfry]

Thanks for the pics Skipper, especially of the gearbox. The plastic on the gearbox looks thinner than I'd like to see which is probably part of the reason why the gearbox sounds so loud.(Lets out the sound more than aluminum)

I never pay much attention to hour ratings. If compression starts to decrease somewhat nine times out of ten you can put in a new ring and your good to go. Look at all those old Tecumsehs out on the ice. EPA guidelines.

[Mainedog]

Thanks Skipper.

[WYIfish]

I spoke with 2 of the engineers on Friday and they told me that they researched and engineered the problems out of it already. They are very confident in this unit and I do not think they plan to modify it. They said it was "thoroughly tested and ready for market".

Thank you very much for the gear box picture skipper.   My gear box still howls and I will be sending it back tomorrow. Mine still sounds like a used fiber timing gear on a chevette.  I would surely think that well engineered for four years or not that the quality control guy should speak up louder or be heard by engineering. I still stand behind my review after drilling 40 holes.  Over use of non metals, and that annoying short pull rope, "that is what it is" as the quote goes. If I would have seen the unit in person before ordering it on good faith I would not have purchased it.

[Tainterslayer]

Mr. Tommerdahl started a model 3500 in the loading dock of the River Center and gave it some juice. There was some gear noise, but it wasn't as crazy as you would believe.

The more they run it for people, the quieter it's going to get. Who knows how many hours they have put on that auger so far?
While I don't have the auger, just hearing about this noisy gearbox makes me wonder... When was the last time you bought something with noisy gears? Probably never. The transmission or the rear end in my car doesn't make any noise. And the last time my power drill made a grinding noise was when the gear box broke.

Gear noise is caused by vibrations between the gears when they mesh together. It's a combination of gear type, geometry of the teeth, finish, and lubrication.  While it's not automatically a red flag for a defective product, in my eyes it's a sign that the gears were not engineered well.
Not against Jiffy in any way.

[something smells fishy]

Its that type of post that makes this a great site, great job

[ice dawg]

I think I will hang onto my 2 hp stealth and see what shakes out for a few years. It has been good to me.

[Tommerdahl]

I would like to "thank' the individuals willing to explore questions and answers versus rumors.  The post covers the truth fairly and openly.  Jiffy manufacturers all its parts with one exception.  We are the only competitor in this position.  The post covered this fairly too.  Regarding the noise, it is not because of improper engineering of gears nor equal to a car transmission.  The occassional howl comes from tightly engineered gears, eventually eliminating the "tightness" noise, but giving longevity to the unit.  Our great reward in working the St. Paul Ice show is..."I have had my Jiffy for 15, 20, 25, or 30 years...and it still works great...."  Amen, with Jiffy - Quality Counts.

I am not Mr. Brent Tommerdahl, but I am pride to be associated with him.

[WYIfish]

I would like to "thank' the individuals willing to explore questions and answers versus rumors.  The post covers the truth fairly and openly.  Jiffy manufacturers all its parts with one exception.  We are the only competitor in this position.  The post covered this fairly too.  Regarding the noise, it is not because of improper engineering of gears nor equal to a car transmission.  The occassional howl comes from tightly engineered gears, eventually eliminating the "tightness" noise, but giving longevity to the unit.  Our great reward in working the St. Paul Ice show is..."I have had my Jiffy for 15, 20, 25, or 30 years...and it still works great...."  Amen, with Jiffy - Quality Counts.

I am not Mr. Brent Tommerdahl, but I am pride to be associated with him.

Could you fire off that address Mr Tommerdahl was going to get for me.
Rock Springs, Wyoming, he'll know what it concerns.
Thanks.

[FISHFORPIKE]

I would like to "thank' the individuals willing to explore questions and answers versus rumors.
The occassional howl comes from tightly engineered gears, eventually eliminating the "tightness" noise, but giving longevity to the unit.
I am not Mr. Brent Tommerdahl, but I am pride to be associated with him.

Then WHO are you?
A howling transmission that "stops" after use means, to me, it is wearing.  And if it is wearing to any meaningful extent (like you are indicating) means it might also "wear out?
I would believe that if the design and the manufacture were correct, there would be no "howling" and negligible wear over a period of 20 - 30 years, like the old Jiffy 30s.
Certainly, time will tell; but most of us do not wish to wait for that time and we are not "consoled" by a noisy transmission that is "said" to improve with wear (or time).

[Skipper]

Lets not start another flame war. I wrote that post with the goal of being objective, fact and fiction with no oppinion. I was not trying to prove anything to anyone, just get the facts out front and put the rest to bed.

[CMMahy]

Thanks for taking the time to do the homework and write it up for us! It seems everyone has formed an opinion on the "New" vs the "Old" Jiffy's (myself included), without any true hands on experience with them. In the end it just has to make a hole in the ice, as long as it does that reliably (which it sounds like it will, looks like there's been some serious time invested in the R&D of those machines) does it really matter what we speculate here on the internets?

Good luck out there! 

[WYIfish]

Thanks for taking the time to do the homework and write it up for us! It seems everyone has formed an opinion on the "New" vs the "Old" Jiffy's (myself included),  SNIP........does it really matter what we speculate here on the internets?

I speculate that the UPS folks will have my STX PRO II delivered to it's address about Friday and I should get another one back to Wyoming just in time for Christmas.  I also speculate my 28 year old jiffy is lucky I didn't get rid of it as it is my method of drilling holes since we have ice to fish now. My home work consisted of phone calls, tons of emails, and a large bucket full of disappointment thus far.

[Skipper]

That sucks. I think I will be hanging on to my 20 year old jiffy for at least one more season.

[FISHFORPIKE]

I don't think I will have any need to comment further on the new Jiffys.  I will "wait and see"; the folks on this site, sadly, will do the reviews and testing.
I do not mean to shoot your comments and observations down, Skipper.

[DR.SPECKLER]

yep im gonna wait and see.till then i will use me 1969 1 armed bandit that thing is built solid.i will never buy anything but jiffy but im gonna wait to see if china can make a good motor.i bought a motorcycle from china and the engine on that was a piece of crap.

[Skipper]

I don't think I will have any need to comment further on the new Jiffys.  I will "wait and see"; the folks on this site, sadly, will do the reviews and testing.
I do not mean to shoot your comments and observations down, Skipper.

You didn't shoot anything down because I didn't give an opinion. No prob, and no offence taken.

[Hesperus]

Thank you very much for the gear box picture skipper.   My gear box still howls and I will be sending it back tomorrow. Mine still sounds like a used fiber timing gear on a chevette.  I would surely think that well engineered for four years or not that the quality control guy should speak up louder or be heard by engineering. I still stand behind my review after drilling 40 holes.  Over use of non metals, and that annoying short pull rope, "that is what it is" as the quote goes. If I would have seen the unit in person before ordering it on good faith I would not have purchased it.

I'm new here, but not new to ice drills or mechanics.  

I'd be curious as to how much you have used your drill and what if any ailments you have observed OTHER than gear box noise?  Have you started and run it enough to get a handle on how the engine performs and starts?

One thing I would like to point out is that last years STX Pro had the synthetic gear box already so if there were any major problems they should have shown up.  I understand and can appreciate the comments made that the gears are delivered tight and thus will make noise.  This is a definite fact.  The Harley gear drive cams are the same way.  With this gear case, I would think it best to start a little tight and let things wear in.  Just like a piston and rings etc.

My only other thought was that if they had chosen bevel cut gears there would be no noise.  There would be thrust loads though...

I bought a Jiffy STX Pro 9" in February.  The gear noise is a bit cheesy, but it drilled fine and I'm not going to sweat it.   I had a model 30 in the 80's and lost it to the ex.  After 20+ years of not ice fishing I decided to go again last year.

My present quest is to investigate the possibility of getting a Husqvarna auger and see how they work.  My only concern is that the shaver type blades can go south in a hurry.  These new jiffy rippers are pretty nasty tough...
  

[WYIfish]

I'm new here, but not new to ice drills or mechanics.  

I'd be curious as to how much you have used your drill and what if any ailments you have observed OTHER than gear box noise?  Have you started and run it enough to get a handle on how the engine performs and starts?

One thing I would like to point out is that last years STX Pro had the synthetic gear box already so if there were any major problems they should have shown up.  I understand and can appreciate the comments made that the gears are delivered tight and thus will make noise.  This is a definite fact.  The Harley gear drive cams are the same way.  With this gear case, I would think it best to start a little tight and let things wear in.  Just like a piston and rings etc.

My only other thought was that if they had chosen bevel cut gears there would be no noise.  There would be thrust loads though...

I bought a Jiffy STX Pro 9" in February.  The gear noise is a bit cheesy, but it drilled fine and I'm not going to sweat it.   I had a model 30 in the 80's and lost it to the ex.  After 20+ years of not ice fishing I decided to go again last year.

My present quest is to investigate the possibility of getting a Husqvarna auger and see how they work.  My only concern is that the shaver type blades can go south in a hurry.  These new jiffy rippers are pretty nasty tough...
  

Purchased/ordered 11/15/09
arrived 11/28
called factory about loud gear noise 11/30
cut 40 holes 12/12/2
had marketing genus at Jiffy and a tech listen to it over phone 12/3
sent back to factory rep 12/7
UPS lost it/not at reps address 14/14
Lots of smoke blown my way for lengthy period
filed UPS investigation 12/29
Still no auger, I am using a spud for fishing now.  After $508 spent, I am not happy with anyone including me.
A lot of lemons in ice fishing.

[Hesperus]

I take that as:  Starts good runs good, just noisy gearcase?

Mine makes a cyclical choo--choo--choo whine noise as the cutter spins, but again it's not concerning me.   Starts, runs, cuts like a bastage... 

[ice dawg]

My present quest is to investigate the possibility of getting a Husqvarna auger and see how they work.  My only concern is that the shaver type blades can go south in a hurry.  These new jiffy rippers are pretty nasty tough...
  

The only place I know of to get a new Husqvarna ice auger in the USA is in Charlotte,NC. $899.90 and I would guess shipping. 800 487 5962. The last time I checked they had 15 of them. Let us know what you find out. Dawg