Freedom

[jigstick]

Well, I have to make this short, sweet, and clear. I'm not sure that Scott will let me continue, or even post it for that matter. He recently sent me an e-mail advising me to shape up or ship out.

Let me start by saying that a more sincere and dedicated ice fisherman than I am would be difficult to reel up. I've been ice-fishing since my uncle took me out on the frozen water some thirty-five years ago. I then started going out on my own with hook, line, alder branches, and an ice- spud. My love of the sport took off and endures from there.

I've accumulated experience I believe may be of  some value in this forum and am more than willing to share some of it ( but I'm not going to tell you where I fish)

I know some of my posts have been abrasive to some, but sometimes stale material has to be sanded to reveal new stuff and stimulate new growth. Sometimes the pot has to be stirred lest stuff start sticking to the bottom (sorry, stolen from someone else). Is this site only about going over the same old things over and over again, or could it be a forum to discuss issues facing ice fishermen and women, and getting involved in maintaining or even improving the quaility of the ice fishing experience? 

The worst part about Scott's e-mail was that he ended by telling me not to respond to it because he wouldn't read it and consider my thoughts on the matter. I do realize that this is his website and he can post whatever he wants to, but since he does hold it out as a forum for others thoughts, a little more tolerance might be in order.

While some may think of this as whining, others might think about what I've said and how it may apply to ideas they want to write about. There it is, out there for all to read and respond to (provided it gets to the website).

[jigstick]

Thanks for the response slipbob and if that's the general flavor of any responses made to my post I will certainly tailor my own posts along those lines.

[grumpymoe]

i dont know what issue is being debated or not open for debate, but i know one thing is certain. there a alot of issues that are discussed and have been many times in the past, but iceshanty.com is about having fun and making new friends that truly enjoy hardwater fishing. some of us from time to time, take jabs at some true characters, but its always just in fun. when this site becomes cutting edge as far as fishing/hunting goes, then i know that its time for something else. many new anglers to this site, are looking for advice, and it is my hope, that even with all the chatter thats posted, something valuable is passed on. grumpymoe

[jigstick]

Ah, Grumpymoe, I believe you are probably a man after my own heart. You start off your post with exactly what I'm talking about, why should you worry about what is being debated? If it has to do with ice-fishing, and it isn't vulgar, shouldn't you be able to talk about it? Speak your mind and let others explore the depths of its knowledge. And by all means, lets have fun.

[jigstick]

Well, I been waiting for responses but I must go now and visit with my neighbors who count on me for whatever I can do for them between ice fishing trips. I guess I'm just not used to big city ways and cutting out peoples writings like they do on this site. I'll check later to see if anyones had time or been able to write.

[trapperdirk]

 Well said Grumpymoe . I myself get alot of entertainment and fun out of this site . That doesn't mean that we don't learn here , or divulge our secrets , which I believe we do .
   For sure we rehash what to many of us is old news . That doesn't mean it's not new news to others .
   Iceshanty.com I believe has to be the fastest largest growing site of which I am an active member . That in itself says something .
  Yes I get into sparring matches and some general ribbing which is exactly what happens out on the ice with my friends . We may be off topic but it sure breaks up any monotony that may exist from time to time .
   I look at this like a fisherman waiting for a bite . At sometime , someone , whether a rookie or a pro will ask a question . To me this is a bite and I know I have their attention . I try to give them what they want if I have the proper bait .In other words something I have experienced or have  knowledge of .It's great that we share these insights into our nature through a common bond of loving our sport called icefishing .
   Now Jigstick whatever has happened here is none of my business and I will not pry into it .
  The only reason I responded was because of the effort you took with your post . In that way you must have got me to bite so now release me and let it go . LOL
   

[billditrite]

i couldnt agree more ice shanty .com is like my ice shanty good friends,talking about ice fishing .what we love, what we hate, what we want, and what we  do!anyone who knows me knows i will slip in a good wise crack anywhere one fits.not to be disrespectful to ANYONEbut just to poke some fun.if you take things personally some things will bother you im sure ,but we are all (well mostly anyway) adults here.sometimes you will find a topic that really interests you or means a lot to you and things are said not eveyone will like,and thats why scott and his team of moderators are there and they do a he77 of a job .thanks guys,i love this site

[sbfPA_Mike]

Jigstick,

     I have learned that one does not get warnings w/o warrant.  This is not a hard and fast rule,  but one that has merit.  One usually gets warnings when one has offended others and those others report these offenses.  To maintain the integrity of the higher standards of sportsmen and sportswomen,  posts and people need to be moderated.  If there isn't moderation,  the Shanty will sink to the bottom.  These are my own thoughts and not influenced by anyone on the Shanty team.

     I read a post before this one that really applies to some of the things you are not happy with;
"first of all let me say that i have been visiting this site for some time now(just decided to register). this is only my second year ice fishing although i have been warm weather fishing for as long as i can remember. last season i did ok. minimal equipment/knowhow. but this season i can honestly say that i have done ten times better and it is mostly due to all of the great ideas, techniques and advice from all of you on this site. just browsing through the forum archive has answered all of my questions and then some. thank you all so much for helping to teach me the fine art of hardwater fishing.
                        sincerely,
                                       icechipper"     copied on 2-17-04
     
     You said,  "stale material has to be sanded to reveal new stuff and stimulate growth"  do you think that Icechipper needs new stuff?  I think that Icechipper needs the basics that all of needed when we started out in the sport.  Icechipper is the growth that needs to be stimulated and to do that he needs to learn things that have been stated many times.

     I can say that I can be an abbrasive person,  however I want to be notified if I have offended anyone so I can correct my behavior to not offend in the future.

Mike
Big City Redneck

[nuke1neil]

Jigstick,you said in your first post that you know your posts have been abrasive to some.Well, there you have it !!! You really need to go no further to see what the problem is.People get on here for enjoyment,and as soon as someone gets abrasive to them the enjoyment ends.It's really as simple as that.Scott has provided us with an excellent,FREE,service here.If we need to follow some simple guidelines as a condition of using this site,I think it's well worth it.If someone does'nt maintain some control,just like anything else it will self destruct.

[rgfixit]

This morning's member list includes 8,867 ice fishers from all over the USA & Canada.

The larger we grow the more potential there is for friction between members. The probability of complaints about a particular member's posts increases daily. We take complaints VERY seriously. None are ignored. Few warnings are issued. Normal recourse is to remove the offender from the site. We don't need problems and it's impossible to change a member's personality.

Preview your posts before you put them up for public viewing. Ask yourself it's appropriate for a FUN forum such as this.

This is an Ice Fishing Site! It's about having fun persuing a hobby.
RG

[grumpymoe]

AMEN!!!

[Fat Boy]

RG, I couldn't agree more.  I'd like to add one more thing.  This site is not about personal attacks.  I have not read Jigsticks posts so I can't so my comment may or may not apply here, so Jigstick, it this doesn't apply to you then please don't take offense.  Now, there are some people that seem to have it in for others (or anyone for that matter) and blast them at every opportunity.  The offenders know who they are.  If you want to make an ice fishing point, tip, comment or otherwise, you can do it without blasting someone else laying out insults and name calling.  Everyone has an opinion, right or wrong, and everyone has been given the freedom to express it, but when it comes to hurting other people, there is no right for that.

For example, if you don't agree with something and write: 

"Fat Boy, you are a complete moron and I can't understand how you call yourself an ice fisherman.  Tightlining is a myth and you are the first person on the list that should be strung up for it."

A much better way of saying this might be:

"Fat Boy, I totally disagree with your point of view on this subject.  I'm glad that you have success with tightlining but it might not be for everybody.  I personally do better by..."


That way, the ice fishing knowledge and/or is transferred to the public in a professional manner rather than an abrasive one.

OK, I'm done venting.

[Fish Monger]

Geezzz You guys sound more like politicians than icefishermen.

[FullTmeDad]

Jigstick,
I think that for most of us, this site is a way to "escape" for a bit when we can't be out on the ice. I enjoy sharing my experiences and knowledge and if I can help out someone in the process, even better. The last thing I want is to be insulted or berated, (if I want abuse I'll call my ex-wife!), like fatboy, I have not read your posts nor have you offended me personally. I'm just taking my turn on the soapbox.
If you know that you are being "abrasive", maybe you can re-phrase your comment just a bit. Or just ignore that thread and move on to something more enjoyable. It's ok to poke fun once in a while, but with a few exceptions, if you passed one of us on the street, or even on the ice, you wouldn't know us, so please don't assume you know me well enough to insult or criticize me.
I welcome your opinions, your knowledge, and your experiences. I'll even share some of my favorite spots and a "Goatboy" beer with you, but please respect my opinions, knowledge and experiences as well.  NOW......let's put this to bed and drill some holes, the fish are biting and the ice will be melting soon.
FTD

[rgfixit]

That's the 2nd time I've been called a Poiltician on this site.

UGH!
RG

[fozsey]

I have no idea what happened and I guess ultimately it is up to Scott and the administration to administer justice for everyone. Everyone has great points. I would like to add one more. The words typed in this forum are just that, words. Just because I type them with a certian meaning in my mind doesn't mean anyone reading them will see them the same way I do. Everything I read is perceptive. As 100 people read my words 100 different perceptions of those words are being formulated. I take this into account with everything I read and especially when I write. Few here know me personally so I have to assume the worst when I write something. Therefore, I try very hard to make what I write very neutral and not inflamatory. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion and am afraid to voice it. I do and I will, but I will take care not to make it personal no matter what. Hell, who knows, maybe someone is reading this right now and thinking "this guy is a total d!p$h!t".

I wrote a response to a complaint about Kevin's avaitor that is a perfect example of what not to do. Although my feelings about that matter are real and very passionate, I could have done a better job with the wording. When I read that Kevin was changing his Avaitor just because one person (and I don't know if it was just one person) was complaining that it was offensive, it got to my emotions very quickly because I have such strong feelings about our freedoms and what so many of our brothers have fought and died to preserve just to have one person complain and prevail. I had no idea what the problem was. IMO Kevin's Aviator was nothing to be complained about. Maybe that person had the same problem with Kevin's avaitor that I have with them having a problem with it. I doubt it, but who knows. I have no idea how many got my point in that post. The odds are great that not many did and it is possible that I lost some credibility in the process. If so it is my fault.

Words are very powerful when that's all you have.

[Fat Boy]

Geezzz You guys sound more like politicians than icefishermen.

Alright, stop the insults and name calling!

[fozsey]

Geezzz You guys sound more like politicians than icefishermen.

Alright, stop the insults and name calling!

He could have called you a lawyer...

[Fat Boy]

Geezzz You guys sound more like politicians than icefishermen.

Alright, stop the insults and name calling!

He could have called you a lawyer...

Oh my, don't say that.  I'll be doomed to he77!

[Cook078]

The last 4 or so posts have been a perfect example of how we fight nice....We must understand that being  called a poitician or lawyer is like playing...nobody really means any harm. ..and thats what it is all about, having a little FUN!! So to say that you might not be able to post or write or whatever, you may have taken something a bit too far...I really don't know...but you (Jigstick) seem like a nice guy and that you have alot to share with the group...so please stick around.  On another note though, please be patient with the newbies like myself, cause I am likely to ask a question that has already gotten beat to death sometime, but I did not see it or was not a Shanty'er yet.  All in all everyone here is GREAT...and the tips and advice on this site is unmatched anywhere...so keep the ideas coming, cause I am still new.....and still learning!!!

Mike

[Mudbug]

R.Gee. politician, 2 times? wonder who it was that called ya a politician first? one of my favorite movies is catch 22....when we meet, i'm gonna rob your jigs. have a goot evening out der. later, mudbug.

[rgfixit]

Mudbug,
 You can call me a politician or office seeker,    baby-kisser, boss, chieftain, congressman, flesh presser, glad-hander, grandstander, hack, handshaker, lawmaker, leader, legislator, office seeker, officeholder, orator, partisan, party member, pol, politico, public servant, speaker, statesman, warhorse or whistle-stopper.

I'd have to be crazy to admit to being a poilitician...but if I know it's crazy then I must not be crazy and I'm a politician.....

“That’s some catch, that Catch-22,”.....“It’s the best there is”

RG

[2 dogs]

One little question, what is tightlining that fatboy was talking about?

[sharphook]

I am a newbie to this form, but not to ice fishing.  Been doing that for over 20 years.  I like this site because people are willing to admit that they don't know everything but are quick to help someone with a question.  Although I have been ice fishing for a while, I still have questions.  And I appreciate everyones input.  But reqardless of your opinions you have to do it with a little tact.  I would hate for this site to change for the bad.  I know a few people who have never ice fished before and was given this site to look at.  Now they are on the ice and enjoying it.  People shouldn't be insulted on this site for anyreason.  This a fun and informative site and that will keep people coming back.   Just my 2 cents. 

[Fat Boy]

One little question, what is tightlining that fatboy was talking about?

That's when you type "tight lines" at the end of your posts...

[grumpymoe]

Fat Boy.......er..how many lbs to go...tight lines??? lets be helpful here  i'm going to let you answer the question. grumpy

[2 dogs]

Thanks Fatboy for the web site information as it was excellent, that is why I like this site in that even after 30 years on the ice you can still learn something useful every time you log in here. I am gonna try this Friday if weather cooperates as do fly fish for panfish and northerns so have scads of flies to try it with.

[Fat Boy]

Thanks Fatboy for the web site information as it was excellent, that is why I like this site in that even after 30 years on the ice you can still learn something useful every time you log in here. I am gonna try this Friday if weather cooperates as do fly fish for panfish and northerns so have scads of flies to try it with.

No problem 2 dogs, at first I thought that you were kidding, since this thread wasn't meant to be about tightlining.  Didn't mean to poke fun at you, just thought at the time of my post that I was joking and laughing with you. 

Just goes to show, as mentioned in the other posts on this thread, that you can't tell someone's demeanor simply by their words, or even moreso the emotions behind the words.  Just as I mistook the intent of your post, I'm sure that others can easily misunderstand someone's intentions on a post.  Therefore, it's extremely important to scrutinize what we write to make sure it we are making our point the way that we want to.  I guess my problem is that when people make their point exactly the way they want to and it's a direct attack on someone.  When I see those kinds of posts, it leaves a sick feeling in the bottom of my stomach and I can't imagine how much worse it is if the attack was directed at me.  Actually, I can because it happened on this site once...I won't go there though.

I'm always happy to share information.  The info isn't mine but since I like the link and the info on that site, I refer others to it often, probably because they say it better than I can ever do it and also because I've learned a lot from some of the books that a couple of them have written.

[rgfixit]

Like Fat Boy..(well not so fat now) I will always give in to a bit of humor when a topic gets  going off in an overly serious direction. Tons of useful info here for the novice and "expert" alike.

RG

[trapperdirk]

 YA YA YA  .AS moderators isn't it time to let it go. I'm a manager at outdoor sites so let this go.  Show leadership instead of being part of the crowd . Thats my .02 cents .