Making tip-ups with Boy Scouts

[EclecticGuy]

See my post on taking a group of Boy Scouts ice fishing this past weekend: http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=101954.msg994541#msg994541

Well, I consider it a success! At our troop meeting last night I had several boys ask if they could go ice fishing again. So, of course, I said yes.

I am a do-it-yourselfer and want to make some tip-ups with the boys. I am really surprised that there are no tip-up plans to be found anywhere and I've goggled till my fingers turned blue. I see a lot of "they are not worth building because you can get them for $10" but sometimes it isn't the price that's the issue - its the learning and experience. I want to build something simple enough for a 12 year old boy to construct. I have considered tip downs and even simple jigging rods (and we will probably make some of these too) but there is something about a flag popping up that really is appealing to kids! Like this:



So, I am building a prototype "3 stick" tip-up with hardware store materials and my intent is to actually publish the plans so anyone can use them. The goal is to keep it as simple as possible and even offer several alternatives in case certain materials are not locally available or to use found materials.

The 2 biggest challenges are the reel and the flag wand. For the reel, I could buy a bunch of plastic reels but I think I am going to make them with a wooden hub and the outer flanges cut from soup cans (those fancy can openers that peel the top off the can really work). The flag wand is tricky simply due to not being able to source the spring steel wand at a hobby shop or hardware store. So one idea I have is to use a 1/4" wooden dowel (maybe 18" long) attached to a short section of spring (maybe a screen door spring cut up in 5" lengths). The other end of this would attach to the top of the upright. I've also considered using a mouse trap instead of a spring - which has a kid "cool factor".

I'd appreciate any other suggestions!

Cheers,
EclecticGuy

[jayswimmer09]

sounds like a sweet idea!! with i had any suggestions for yah

[EclecticGuy]

I build fishing rods (http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/f788193037) and know first hand the pleasure of catching a fish on a rod you built yourself. I think this applies to tip-ups and boys too!

[hillmann]

Fot the spring you could use doorstop springs but that could get kind of expensive. I have thought of using the steel straping that is used for bindinglarge loads to pallets.  If you go to a lumber yard they would probly be willing to give you tons of their scrap if you ask nice. The problomes with that is that it is 1/2 thick and it is not nearly as springy as a normal  tip up flag but if you made it so you could put it in backwords every other time so that it dossent get to much of a set to it it should be fine. 

[EclecticGuy]

The metal strap is a good idea hillmann, thanks! Maybe I could use a short length (6") of it between 2 pieces of 3/4" by 3/4" (18" long or so) wood to make a spring "elbow". Worth a shot, and cheap!

cheers,
EclecticGuy

[hillmann]

I personaly would use a piece as long as possoble so it isn't bent anymore than necessary.  If you bend it too far it will take a set and not spring as much as you would want.

[mr.clean]

Electric guy,
   Good luck and have fun with the scouts. I would try the search feature on this site ,seen posts with pictures of home made tip-up's. Most of these used parts from commericaly available tip-up manufacturers. This of course will raise costs please post photos of any finished projects.

 Steve

[EclecticGuy]

Thanks, I have spent probably 5 hours searching here and there is some good information and photos - just nothing all in one place. I want to design this to use common materials and not cost a fortune. As it is now, I have sourced from Ace Hardware and a local hobby shop all of the items to make 1 tip-up for about $3.50 plus a few found items (soup can lids). Buying some of these items in quantities of 10 or more would cut the costs a bit too. Wood is not a problem, I have several local lumber yards that will donate shorts for the Scouts. I am planning to make these in Ash or Mahogany but even 3/4" PVC pipe could be used. I do not expect these to see heroic use but should be functional and last for a few seasons.

I will share my design and photos and materials lists as I go.

[TrekJeff]

Check Quick Oil change stations for old wind shield wipers.  The wipers sometimes have a steel strip that works great for Flag Springs!

[teamtip-up]

Absolutely look in Junk Yards or Inspection/Service stations for used wiper blades.  The steel works perfect.   Some truck wipers have long pieces.    Keep letting us know your progress.

jb

[EclecticGuy]

Great idea on looking for wiper blades guys! Thanks. I knew that wiper blades were useful but didn't think about getting them in quantity at a service station!

Interestingly, I perused the US Patent literature looking for ice fishing devices. There is quite a bit of useful stuff there! The earliest patent I could find the full text for was issued on 2/7/1922 for a very simple device. Here are the drawings from it:

See the full size scan here: http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p132649664.jpg

The most interesting for my task is from 1/2/1951. Very simple.


See the full size scan here: http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p241955107.jpg

What I liked is the idea of using a groove in the wooden upright to contain the trip wire rather than using an external tube that adds both cost and complexity. The groove can be stuffed with low temp grease and the wood sealed with varnish to minimize swelling. For the few trips a year these boys will use them for they should last fine. The trip wire I can get cheaply at a local hobby shop. So by going this route, I think my costs just dropped to about $1.00 per trap for nuts & bolts. I am planning to use the red plastic flags that lumber stores provide for over length boards.

So next up is to get some wiper blades, flags, wire, hardware, soup can lids and build the prototype. I'll post progress as I go.

[EclecticGuy]

One of the more interesting patents issued on 11/2/1954 that I want to play around with is:


See the full size scan here: http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/v6/p36982172.jpg

The spring might be replaced with rubber bands (if you coat them with glycerine they stay pliable and don't freeze) to pop-up the indicator. This should be a very wind proof device too since the flag is not exposed and the trip mechanism is completely internal. The outer tube could be a length of 3/4" or 1" PVC.

[hillmann]

I was thinking that for the spools if you know anyone with a lathe that a couple dozen spools could be mad in an hour or so.  And if you don't know anyone with a lathe you could go to the local tech or high school, talk to the wood shop teacher and they would be willing to have there best student make them up for you.  At least that's the way it is around here.

[oleike]

I think that soup can lids may cut the scouts. why not just use spool from fishing line..just add a handle...somehow.

[EclecticGuy]

I do have a lathe so that is not a problem. oleike, have you seen the can openers that cut the li off from the side right below the rim? They leave a safe (unsharp) edge with a bit of a rim. I'll take a photo of the lids when I have some cut off so you can see. Worse case, we can turn the reels or find some spools, maybe from a local tackle shop.

One of my goals is to use found materials as much as possible so others can use these ideas. Thanks for the ideas! They all help.

[oleike]

what about something like this.......a person could use a spring method or elastic to pull the band up or....a float on the bottom of the flag that shoots the flag up. I guess my concern with this method would be....would the flag in the tube freeze...I live in Canada and we have cold temps. I have been thinking of a way to build a good cheap reliable tip-up for years. This one or one very similar keeps coming to my mind.Say hi to the scouts



I have had to make a modification to this...the bottom of the flag stem material would have to start above the shaft holding the spool

[EclecticGuy]

oleike, your ideas and the patent I posted on the previous page do get the creative juices flowing! I does seem really simple, inexpensive and quick to build. I think a plastic streamer (10" long or so) could easily be stuffed in the tube. When it deployed it would be very visible from far away. The height the inner rod raises would be determined by the stretch length of the spring, rubber band(s) or shock cord. I don't think it would have to be very much actually if the outer tube were tall, just enough to get the flag or streamer to clear the tube and deploy. Do you think bright red plastic streamers would freeze? This weekend it was 0 degrees with a 10 mph breeze and the plastic flags on my tip ups seemed fine.

[lightningz]

I have been thinking about the easiest design that your scouts would be able to use and I keep going back to the simple stick tip-up design that is used on a lot of cheaper tip-ups today. The small spools that fishing line comes on would work perfect due to the design of the crisscross of the spool would work to trigger the shaft. The hole in the spool may have to be downsized with a bushing of some sort to support a wood screw and washer. The shaft could be made from the ceiling wire used in industrial acoustical ceilings. It could be bent and cut to size with a pair of needle nose pliers. The tube for the shaft could be made from some plastic tube from the hardware store. The spring steel flag is the only thing that I am stuck on, Although I think if you could get a recoil spring from the lawnmower repair guy you could cut it and straighten it enough to work. I would buy one of the cheap tip-ups from a store to use as a judge to show the kids what they want to end up with and how it is supposed to work. I will keep thinking about it and let you know if I come up with a better idea. Let me know what you think.

[oleike]

I have been thinking about the easiest design that your scouts would be able to use and I keep going back to the simple stick tip-up design that is used on a lot of cheaper tip-ups today. The small spools that fishing line comes on would work perfect due to the design of the crisscross of the spool would work to trigger the shaft. The hole in the spool may have to be downsized with a bushing of some sort to support a wood screw and washer. The shaft could be made from the ceiling wire used in industrial acoustical ceilings. It could be bent and cut to size with a pair of needle nose pliers. The tube for the shaft could be made from some plastic tube from the hardware store. The spring steel flag is the only thing that I am stuck on, Although I think if you could get a recoil spring from the lawnmower repair guy you could cut it and straighten it enough to work. I would buy one of the cheap tip-ups from a store to use as a judge to show the kids what they want to end up with and how it is supposed to work. I will keep thinking about it and let you know if I come up with a better idea. Let me know what you think.

as mentioned previously...somewhere .....for the spring steel flag could be made of winshield wiper blade inner steel. Not sure if the newer style of wiper has this or not..but you could go to an auto wrecker and they would probably give them to you.

[oleike]

oleike, your ideas and the patent I posted on the previous page do get the creative juices flowing! I does seem really simple, inexpensive and quick to build. I think a plastic streamer (10" long or so) could easily be stuffed in the tube. When it deployed it would be very visible from far away. The height the inner rod raises would be determined by the stretch length of the spring, rubber band(s) or shock cord. I don't think it would have to be very much actually if the outer tube were tall, just enough to get the flag or streamer to clear the tube and deploy. Do you think bright red plastic streamers would freeze? This weekend it was 0 degrees with a 10 mph breeze and the plastic flags on my tip ups seemed fine.

I am not quite sure what type of plastic streamer you mean. You could always just use some flagging tape that they use for hunting/surveying. You need not stuff the plastic into the tube...it would be better if you could though...I also like the bend over type flags..seems they would be less fouling and easier to trip. They need to be spring steel though. keep in mind you want something that will not give false trips. You want a very posative set trigger meaning the flag only trips when a fair amount of movement is involved. I will keep thinking.........oh great now i will be up all night wracking my brain..hehe

[EclecticGuy]

Survey flagging tape was exactly what I was thinking. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be stored in the tube to eliminate wind flags. I'll be building the prototypes this weekend. I've settled on doing 3 designs:

1) a traditional tip-up with washer blade springs based on the patent I posted on the previous page.

2) a pop-up tube type like the one we've been discussing on this page.

3) a standard tip-down design with a removable rod so it can be hand jigged. Like the one topher7694 posted earlier this month http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=96525.msg942765#msg942765

[oleike]

I am still playing.....i have some of this tubing ..it is white water pipe. I am in Canada so you may not have this exact stuff available. I am quite sure any lumber store would carry this and i cannot see it being to expensive.



It is very light and rather strong. You could mount your spool at the bottom. If you were to use a fishing line empty spool then you could use the inside spoke to trip the wire going up to the flag. You could even mount the trip wire on the outside of the piping ..just make sure you have your spool shimmed out away from the piping enough to allow room for the trip wire to make it up the outside of the piping. Hope you catch my drift.
Then It would be a very simple task to devise a upper trip to get the flag to go "boing"

[oleike]

like this.........



you could use little eyelets for trip wire guides.
you could use the spokes of the inside of the spools for tripping the trip wire.
I am quite sure that if the trip wire froze around the hole...it would still function as all that it needs to do is spin. Heck ....you could even use coat hanger wire providing you get it nice and straight. Perhaps you may only need a long enough piece of coathanger that you would need not straighten any corners of the coathanger. The suspended ceiling hanging wire is tough stuff..but might be pricey depending on what your budget is.
You can obtain elbows that push over this above mentioned pipe. You could cut the elbow off and use it to push overtop of the very top of the tip up to attatch the stationary end of the flag...kinda like a tight fitting sleeve which would squash the spring steel in between the pipe and the sleeve if you catch my drift. Are we getting anywhere yet. I really want to make a couple of these also. Lets keep this going and refine some more! You could cut your flags from black rubberized tarp material. This tarp material is used up here for mine shaft ventilation.

[fshnbudy01]

Re: Making tip-ups with Boy Scouts

I though you were gonna have boyscouts man your tipups and yell when a fish got on.     LOL

[mud_n_fun]

I think that soup can lids may cut the scouts. why not just use spool from fishing line..just add a handle...somehow.

Thay's the problem. If your kid enters scouts not knowing the soup can could be sharp then maybe the dad should join cubscouts and learn a few things to teach to his son.



The world isn't perfect!  And if a kid gets a cut it's part of life. Don't stop the learning. Take the bubble off your kid.